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kentuckyjoe

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Christian religious argument supporting abortions
Posted: 05-30-08 08:35am

It must be obvious to everyone that we are loosing the battle for public opinion about abortion. It isn’t that our cause isn’t right or just. Rather, it is that we have let the argument be defined in a manner that is to our detriment.

Right now, we say “Pro-Life” vs. “Pro-Choice”. Implicit in this are the ideas of people that value God’s gift of life vs. the people that will destroy God’s gift if it happens to be inconvenient for them to have child. It’s a good versus evil type of thing. No wonder we’re loosing this battle of ideas!

In fact, it is an argument between those who will take care of the children who are born versus those who will abandon them. It IS good versus evil but we are on the right side of the battle.

Many of us are reluctant to talk about religion because of our respect for different religions. So we don’t answer their arguments and loose the war.

I think we have to develop the Christian religious argument supporting abortions and get it into the face of the “Pro-Life” people. Yes, I am radical about the issue of abortion.
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kentuckyjoe

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Posted: 05-30-08 08:40am

Christianity is an incredibly simple religion. Christ did the hard part by dying on the cross for our sins. Then, all that we have to do is believe in Christ. That's easy; all that we have to do is say "I believe". After that, it's love God and love your neighbor as yourself. Again, that's easy. Everyone loves God. The next part is easy also. We love our neighbor, just hate their sins or things they do. Not only that, if everything else fails, all that we have to do is confess our sins, ask for forgiveness, and our sins are forgiven. Since Christ loves us and died for our sins, He surely wouldn't let us go to hell. Add to this the supernatural help Christ promises us in this life. It's like Christ giving us a million dollars with no strings attached. We would be crazy to not take it.
Everything would be great if Christ had just shut up and left it at that.
In Matthew 7:21, Christ said, "Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father which is in heaven". Christ says similar things in John: 15, 14:23-24 and 15:6. Christ can tell very quickly who really believes in Him and those who are just talking. It is by our actions that He can tell what we really believe. We can't buy our way into heaven with good deeds; that comes from God's grace. We also can't fake belief or faith in Christ, all that Christ has to do is look at what we do to tell what we really believe.
In John 14:34, Christ says, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another". Christ says this again in Matthew 22:37-40, Mark 12:31, Luke 10:27-28 and in John 15:12 and 17. Christ is very clear about what happens to us if our love isn't translated into action.
Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me no food: I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink: 42 I was a stranger, and you didn't take me in: naked, and you didn't clothed me: sick and in prison and you didn't care for me. 43 Then they will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you? 44 Then He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do to one of the least of these; you did not do for me. 45 And these will go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous to eternal life.
Christ tells us that we will go to hell for doing many things but this is the only time He tells us that we will go to hell if we don't do something.
This presents a huge problem for religious leaders. If people spend their time, effort and money feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty etc., as Christ commanded, they can't build churches or pay their religious leaders a salary. We all have a limited amount of time, effort and money that we can give to religion.
Religious leaders have come up with two very simple solutions. First, they just ignore these passages or make token efforts like giving some old clothes in a clothing drive, a few cans of food to a food pantry or work in a soup kitchen every once in a while.
And yet there are literally hundreds of millions of people who go hungry every day. This is hundreds of millions of people who will say that we didn't give them food or drink or shelter or clothing or medical help or visit them in prison. What do we tell God then?
It is hard to care for these hundreds of millions of people. A few live in this country but most of them live in Africa, Asia or Latin America. Out of sight and out of mind, except to Christ, of course.
The second thing religious leaders do is to divert attention from doing what Christ commanded. Here are some of the many ways they do this.
Abortion is a common way that religious leaders divert attention from doing what Christ commanded. The Pro-Life supporters consider themselves as doing God's will in "thou shalt not kill" and "Whatever you do to the least of my brethren". They consider the fetus to be the very, very least of God's brethren. This is easy. All they have to do is pass laws against abortion or otherwise prevent abortions and they have done God's will.
Most of the supporters of the "Pro-Life" movement view this disagreement as being between those who are doing God's will and those who find having a baby to be inconvenient. In reality, it is a disagreement between those who will take responsibility for the child after it is born and those that believe their responsibility ends with the birth of the child.
To understand what they really do though, imagine a man who does God's will of "go forth and multiply" Genesis 9:7. He rapes as many women as possible to produce as many children as possible. He is doing God's will and thus insuring he will go to heaven. He doesn't care what happens to the children he fathers, his responsibility ended when he fathered the children. It is the woman's responsibility to care for the child. If she can't or doesn't, that's not his problem. This is exactly what the people who support the Pro-Life position do.
Since our fictitious man is following a teaching in the bible, he may be convinced that will earn him a place in heaven. Most might disagree. But it really doesn't matter what any of us think or believe, the only thing that matters is what God decides.
The people who support the "Pro-Life" movement have no intention of taking care of the children they force to be born. They don't even know who or where these children are. - Most of them live in Latin America, Africa or Asia. - More important, they don't think or care enough about them to want to relieve the constant hunger, thirst, and grinding poverty that these millions of children suffer all day every day.
Most supporters of the "Pro-Life" movement can't imagine themselves being cast into everlasting fire as Christ promised. They think of themselves as the "good guys" doing God's work. But according to Christ, they aren’t doing his work at all.
In Matthew 7:15-20 and Luke 6:43-49, Christ said "Beware of false prophets...you will know them by their fruits". It is so easy to call a fetus a child and thus the fruits of the Pro-Life movement would be saving the lives of millions of babies. Certainly, many of these children will live good, healthy and happy lives. We also know that hundreds of millions of these children will live lives of hunger, disease and despair.
What about the "sanctity of life"? It isn't one of Christ's teachings! Surely he would have mentioned it but He must have forgot. Actually, Christ does address this issue. In Matthew 15:9 and Mark 7:6-9, Christ said, "full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition". It is easy to come up with all kinds of traditions and declare them inspired by God. It is very hard to actually practice love as Christ commanded.
The concept of "the sanctity of life” does one very important thing. It gives people an excuse for NOT following the teachings of Christ. Now people don't have to look at the "fruit" of their actions and see if they are "love". If you think "love" means abandoning a child to hunger, disease and hopelessness, please trade your own children, grandchildren or other loved ones with these children. Do this without any chance of ever seeing them again. After all, many times, Christ commanded us to "love one another as I have love you".
What if your parents aborted you? If a soul exists, your soul would be with all the other souls of those whose parents had miscarriages.
Billions or even trillions of fetuses die as miscarriages and good "Pro-Life" couples just flush them down the drain. If these fetuses have a soul, what happens to it? The same thing whether it died from a miscarriage or an abortion. If it doesn't go straight to heaven, then every Christian married couple is condemning the souls of their fetuses to hell or someplace else equally bad.
One thing we know for sure is that if you go to eternal damnation, you will wish to God that you had been aborted. Not only that, but you will curse to hell those who caused you to be born.
Some churches put crosses out to symbolize fetuses that have been aborted. They should display a thousand crosses to symbolize the thousands of children they have deliberately let starve so they can go to a nice church and pay a clergy tell them how God loves them for doing this. Certainly, Christ has a special place for them for letting all of these children starve.
The real fruits of the supporters of the "Pro-Life" movement are hundred of millions of children who are hungry.
Some people pretend to believe in a "literal" interpretation of the bible. To them, this guarantees that they don't make any mistakes and thus ensures that they will go straight to heaven. They don't really believe in a literal interpretation of course. In Matthew 19:23-24, Mark 10:25 and Luke 18:25, Christ says that "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven". It is literally impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Do they really believe that it is impossible for a rich man to go to heaven? Of course not! They picked out the belief in evolution because it is so much easier to deal with than feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty etc. They don't even pretend to love their neighbor as themselves. This is just an easy way to trick themselves into believing they are going to heaven. But according to Christ, they condemn themselves to hell for not putting love into practice.
Climate change is another topic where Christ can easily see if we really believe in Him. Parts of Africa, Asia and Latin American are suffering from severe drought or flooding because of climate change. But many people, who pretend to believe in Christ, would sooner enjoy their good lives in this world rather than reduce their energy use. They have all kinds of excuses. Climate change really isn't happening. It's a natural cycle. It might improve our conditions here. Ultimately though, they just don't care what their actions do to other people.
Others talk about homosexuality and other people's sins of whatever type. It's a matter of looking at the splinter in someone else's eye rather than the log in our own. Of course, it is always so much easier to worry about what someone else is doing rather than do the things Christ commanded.
What about forgiveness of sins? To most people, these are magic words and all they have to do is say them and they get into heaven free. Actually, very few people really want forgiveness. What they really want is to continue doing what they have always done and just not be punished for their sins. They believe that God is too stupid to know the difference.
These ideas must be the work of the devil because they challenge so much of "traditional" Christian thinking. Let's use the teaching of Christ to determine if this is the work of a false prophet (Matthew 7:15, Mark 13:22 and Luke 21:Cool or of the blind leading the blind (Matthew 15:14 and Luke 6:39). Christ said, by their fruit you will know them (Matthew 16-20 and Luke 6:44). Which actions do you think follow Christ's teaching to love one another as He has loved us? Did we give money to build a new church or did we give money to feed the hungry? Did we spend our time trying to convert others to our view of Christianity or did we spend our time giving drink to the thirsty? Did we spend our effort forcing more babies to be born or do we spend our effort feeding the millions of hungry babies who have already been born?
Keep in mind that doing what Christ commanded isn't easy. There are corrupt governments, warlords, drug lords and crooks of all kinds out there ready to steal the food, water, medicine and other supplies given to those who need them. We have to decide if we want to keep our hard earned money for ourselves and our own little congregation or tackle these problems as Christ commanded.
In Matthew 4:4, Christ says, "Man can't live by bread alone, but by the word of God". That means we don't have to worry about bread for the hungry, we just have to tell them what Christ said, doesn't it? Most people understand that Christ was talking to people who have bread and not those who need bread.
In Matthew 7:13 and Luke 13:24, Christ tells us that the broad, easy way leads to destruction. It is the narrow, hard things that lead to salvation and that few will be willing to follow it. For so many people, that means protecting themselves from the evils of this world. That's easy. What's hard is to go out into the evils of this world and practice the love that Christ has given us.
Imagine that on your way to church, you came across an infant that had been abandoned. What would you do? Would you call for help and take care of the infant? Or would you just step over it because you didn't want to be late for church? What if you knew there was an abandoned baby a couple of blocks away on a street you don't normally take? What would you do? What if you knew there were millions of babies on different continents that needed help and you didn't help them?
For many people, their final ace in the hole is Christ's teaching in Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27 and Luke 18:27. The apostles ask who can be saved and Christ answers "what is impossible for human beings is possible for God". What religious leaders want this to mean is that every other teaching of Christ can be ignored. God loves us and we can do anything we want and He'll still take us to heaven.
This presents a serious problem. Does God love all of us and we're all going to heaven no matter what we do? If so, then why does Christ (Matthew 7:13, 7:21 and 13:49-50, Mark 13:22, Luke 21:8 and John 15:6) talk about some of us going to heaven and some of us going to hell?
In John 14:26, Christ said that he would send the Holy Spirit to “teach us everything and to remind us of all that He (Christ) told us”. Does anyone really believe that the Holy Spirit is sent to fix all of the things that Christ got wrong? Apparently huge numbers of people believe just that! They don’t believe the teachings of Christ or in Christ, they believe in the teachings of various “saints”, religious leaders or founders of different “Christian” religions.
Now here is the most horrible thought any Christian can imagine. What if Christ got it right the first time and didn’t forget anything? What if Christ loves us and can easily tell who loves him back by what they do about his teaching? Hundreds of millions of hungry people will be testifying on judgment day either for us or against us.
None of us can imagine that we personally are going to hell. To do so might be a sign of mental illness. We especially can’t imagine that our loved ones who have died might be in hell rather than heaven. We believe that if Christ loves us, He can’t possibly let us be led astray. We don’t believe Christ when he tells us again, again and again how our religious leaders will deceive us. Get out your own bible and read it for yourself.
Christ taught a good news, bad news type of thing. For the people willing to go out into the world and make it a better place, He promises salvation. For the rest who just sit around and praise the Lord, He promises eternal damnation. Christ clearly knew that most people would choose the “Lord, Lord” route. He told us that many are called but few are chosen (Matthew 22:14). It's up to us to decide which group we will be in.
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diamondsz

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Posted: 05-30-08 09:11am

Religion is a belief that not all of us share unfortunatly because we are not blind.

Anyways in regards to abortion, christianity itself doesnt necessarily support the anti abortion stance
****************************************** ****
Abortion is mentioned in the bible and was allowed in certain circumstances, such as adultery death and rape

It is also in the bible as per EXODUS 21:22 that a fetus is lesser than a woman

If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows.
****************************************** *********
EXODUS 21:23
But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,

EXODUS 21:24
eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

EXODUS 21:25
burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

Basically I will say it in layman terms
****************************************** *****

Revenge is a sin but allowed in certain instances

GOD ALSO SAID
"NO SIN IS GREATER THAN ANOTHER"

Therefore by judging that person as well as being ignorant you have become them you are their equal.

If you call them a homicide-er therfore you become the homicide-er
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NeutralUsername

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Posted: 05-30-08 09:21am

diamondsz wrote:
Religion is a belief that not all of us share unfortunatly because we are not blind.

Anyways in regards to abortion, christianity itself doesnt necessarily support the anti abortion stance
****************************************** ****
Abortion is mentioned in the bible and was allowed in certain circumstances, such as adultery death and rape

It is also in the bible as per EXODUS 21:22 that a fetus is lesser than a woman

If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows.
****************************************** *********
EXODUS 21:23
But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,

EXODUS 21:24
eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

EXODUS 21:25
burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

Basically I will say it in layman terms
****************************************** *****

Revenge is a sin but allowed in certain instances

GOD ALSO SAID
"NO SIN IS GREATER THAN ANOTHER"

Therefore by judging that person as well as being ignorant you have become them you are their equal.

If you call them a homicide-er therfore you become the homicide-er



I don't think you actually read this person's post.

"The people who support the "Pro-Life" movement have no intention of taking care of the children they force to be born. They don't even know who or where these children are. - Most of them live in Latin America, Africa or Asia. - More important, they don't think or care enough about them to want to relieve the constant hunger, thirst, and grinding poverty that these millions of children suffer all day every day."

He sounds like a prochoicer who believes in the stereotype that pro-lifers don't care about the born. He also seems to think that all pro-lifers are Christian.


Unless I somehow misunderstand.
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diamondsz

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Posted: 05-30-08 09:26am

NeutralUsername wrote:
diamondsz wrote:
Religion is a belief that not all of us share unfortunatly because we are not blind.

Anyways in regards to abortion, christianity itself doesnt necessarily support the anti abortion stance
****************************************** ****
Abortion is mentioned in the bible and was allowed in certain circumstances, such as adultery death and rape

It is also in the bible as per EXODUS 21:22 that a fetus is lesser than a woman

If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows.
****************************************** *********
EXODUS 21:23
But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,

EXODUS 21:24
eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

EXODUS 21:25
burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

Basically I will say it in layman terms
****************************************** *****

Revenge is a sin but allowed in certain instances

GOD ALSO SAID
"NO SIN IS GREATER THAN ANOTHER"

Therefore by judging that person as well as being ignorant you have become them you are their equal.

If you call them a homicide-er therfore you become the homicide-er



I don't think you actually read this person's post.

"The people who support the "Pro-Life" movement have no intention of taking care of the children they force to be born. They don't even know who or where these children are. - Most of them live in Latin America, Africa or Asia. - More important, they don't think or care enough about them to want to relieve the constant hunger, thirst, and grinding poverty that these millions of children suffer all day every day."

He sounds like a prochoicer who believes in the stereotype that pro-lifers don't care about the born. He also seems to think that all pro-lifers are Christian.


Unless I somehow misunderstand.


No I think I misunderstand, I went back an re read..........Apology on my side for that!!
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Birch

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Re: Christian religious argument supporting abortions
Posted: 05-30-08 09:45am

kentuckyjoe wrote:
It must be obvious to everyone that we are loosing the battle for public opinion about abortion. ...


I'm not really sure we're "losing".

http://www.pollingrepo rt.com/abortion.htm

(Too much to post here, please check out the link.)

kentuckyjoe, there are alot of stereotypes and generalities in your post. Not every prolife advocate can give thousands of dollars or hours to help every born child, and I would not begrudge them the right to be prolife.
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diamondsz

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Re: Christian religious argument supporting abortions
Posted: 05-30-08 11:57am

Birch wrote:
kentuckyjoe wrote:
It must be obvious to everyone that we are loosing the battle for public opinion about abortion. ...


I'm not really sure we're "losing".

http://www.pollingrepo rt.com/abortion.htm

(Too much to post here, please check out the link.)

kentuckyjoe, there are alot of stereotypes and generalities in your post. Not every prolife advocate can give thousands of dollars or hours to help every born child, and I would not begrudge them the right to be prolife.


You have to agree though he does make a good point..

They believe more about bringing more children in this world and making the ones that are here suffer. They say over population is not an issue but actually China is a perfect example of their propoganda. I am not saying I dont know any respectful pro-life but the ones who aren't are really ignorant to the other children who are dying.

I think that if you want to be pro-life they should have to help/assist woman who dont want kids or adopt them because there is millions of children without a mother and father.
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kentuckyjoe

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Posted: 05-30-08 12:19pm

I've thought long and hard about painting with such a broad brush. In the end, I decided it had to be done because so many people in the "Pro-Life" movement paint with an even broader brush. In general, I hate generalities but sometimes, it is the only way to express an idea clearly.

As for loosing the fight over public opinion, I see billboards all over supporting the "Pro-Life" position and few supp[orting the "Pro-Choice" position. On the Internet, compare the number of "Pro-Life" organizations to the number of "Pro-Choice" organizations and you'll see what I mean.

In this article, I've tried to destroy completely the "Pro-Life's" position that they are doing God's will. This will leave them with no moral standing.
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Reptar

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Posted: 05-30-08 13:15pm

A bit off-topic but in my own city we had a billboard that said women could elect for abortion while 9 months pregnant. This is obviously not true yet they were given the go-ahead to put this up. I was disgusted by this attempt to discredit abortionists and the women that receive them in the 3rd trimester. I don't see any pro-choice billboards stating how many women die from pregnancy or this from pregnancy, but I think the reason is because we're not fighting against a law, we're fighting so they can't pass a law.
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diamondsz

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Posted: 05-30-08 13:22pm

Reptar wrote:
A bit off-topic but in my own city we had a billboard that said women could elect for abortion while 9 months pregnant. This is obviously not true yet they were given the go-ahead to put this up. I was disgusted by this attempt to discredit abortionists and the women that receive them in the 3rd trimester. I don't see any pro-choice billboards stating how many women die from pregnancy or this from pregnancy, but I think the reason is because we're not fighting against a law, we're fighting so they can't pass a law.


Yes but pro-life propoganda I find is alot of misinformation, they would rather people be afraid or hate something by discrediting the truth.
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Re: Christian religious argument supporting abortions
Posted: 05-30-08 13:42pm

diamondsz wrote:


I think that if you want to be pro-life they should have to help/assist woman who dont want kids or adopt them because there is millions of children without a mother and father.


Well, you could look at it like prochoice advocates will support a mother's choice, no matter what that might be...so should prochoice advocates HAVE to help pay for abortions, help pay for childcare, help find adoptive homes?

kentuckyjoe wrote:
I've thought long and hard about painting with such a broad brush. In the end, I decided it had to be done because so many people in the "Pro-Life" movement paint with an even broader brush. In general, I hate generalities but sometimes, it is the only way to express an idea clearly.


If someone lies to me, I do not become a liar.

kentuckyjoe wrote:
As for loosing the fight over public opinion, I see billboards all over supporting the "Pro-Life" position and few supp[orting the "Pro-Choice" position. On the Internet, compare the number of "Pro-Life" organizations to the number of "Pro-Choice" organizations and you'll see what I mean.


Do billboards and numbers of internet sites indicate public opinion or just someone's wallet? Did you check out the link? I really think more people are prochoice than prolife.
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cmyked

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Posted: 05-30-08 19:24pm

I am Christian.

I am Pro-Choice.

Check out the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice.

h ttp://www.rcrc.org/

I am also offended by Christian stereotypes because I am fighting to destroy them.
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kentuckyjoe

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Posted: 06-02-08 11:00am

I hope I wasn't the only one to not be able to get into this site over the weekend.

This abortion debate is part of a much larger movement. Global warming, over population, huge advances in technology are all out there. The question is what viewpoints will control these issues.

I view abortion as the keystone issue in climate change, evolution, sexuality and a whole host of other issues. All kinds of groups are fighting these issues individually. They are diverting time and energy from doing the many other things that need to be done to make this a better world.

There are two main groups in the Pro-Life movement. The radical right, with whom we are all familiar and main stream people who want to do what is morally right. They would be our natural allies but we haven’t given them a moral reason to give up their Pro-Life ideas.

Above all, this is a moral debate. For most people in America, this morality stems from a Christian religious belief. This is the debate we must enter and win.

For some people, the abortion debate is an end in itself. For me, it’s a very important part of a much bigger issue of making this a better world for more people. While we congratulated ourselves about weathering the worst of the Bush years, hundreds of millions of people went hungry. Like everyone else here, I’m glad we’ve weathered these years but for me, it’s a hollow victory.

Politically, we use the terms red and blue states. People in blue states see themselves winning the abortion debate. People in red states see themselves decisively loosing the debate. In the red states, we will see more and more restrictions on abortions. If a person’s experience is in an area where the Pro-Choice view is strong, you can be forgiven for not realizing just how badly we are loosing in other areas. And everyone knows we are just one vote from loosing Roe vs. Wade.

As for the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, I’ve belonged to it and every other Pro-Choice organization for more years than I care to admit. I don’t think Christ cares one iota about stereotyping. Rather, I think he cares about what we do.
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aochriss

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Posted: 06-02-08 11:13am

kentuckyjoe wrote:
I've thought long and hard about painting with such a broad brush. In the end, I decided it had to be done because so many people in the "Pro-Life" movement paint with an even broader brush. In general, I hate generalities but sometimes, it is the only way to express an idea clearly.

As for loosing the fight over public opinion, I see billboards all over supporting the "Pro-Life" position and few supp[orting the "Pro-Choice" position. On the Internet, compare the number of "Pro-Life" organizations to the number of "Pro-Choice" organizations and you'll see what I mean.

In this article, I've tried to destroy completely the "Pro-Life's" position that they are doing God's will. This will leave them with no moral standing.


Here's more fuel for your fire:
40,000 children die every day needlessly, their deaths caused by the effects of starvation and dehydration.


http://www.unicef.org/wsc/ declare.htm
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diamondsz

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Posted: 06-03-08 08:41am

kentuckyjoe wrote:


As for the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, I’ve belonged to it and every other Pro-Choice organization for more years than I care to admit. I don’t think Christ cares one iota about stereotyping. Rather, I think he cares about what we do.


Hi Joe I REALLY respect this statement and have alot of respect for you, assuming you are christian, you are one of a few who have respect for the real reasons and real issues that affect us and not the potential.

Millions of children are looking for homes in Canada alone there is alot Im going to post sites and hope it helps you as well. I think we need to care for the people who are here and start making a difference, I volunteer for a few organizations and donate money sometimee to centre aide I forget what it is in English I dont think it is Unicef I dont remember.

This is an site for my province but it goes into other countries as well in regards to poverty
http://www. growingstronger.ca/en/facts_research.html< /a>

Nearly 400,000 students across the province are benefiting from more than 3,000 existing breakfast, lunch and snack programs supported by the Ontario government. 400000 kids who are lacking meals and the government of Ontario is forking out 1 million+

Adoption in one province how people judge
The Ministry of Children and Family Development has hundreds of children in its care who desperately need homes. They are known as BC's Waiting Children. These children are waiting for adoption for one of several reasons:

* They are older than 2
* They are part of a sibling group
* They were exposed to drugs or alcohol prenatally and have behavioural or learning disabilities
* They have suffered abuse or neglect
* They have lived in so many foster homes that they have difficulty attaching to a new family
http://www.sunriseadoption.com/adopt ive_parents/how_to_adopt/adoption_programs /canada_adoption/waiting_children

I know its based per Canada but were no better than any other country and I really children shouldnt be thrown around like an object in foster homes.
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kentuckyjoe

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Posted: 06-03-08 09:52am

aochriss and diamondsz, thank you for your comments. These are the kinds of issues we have to address! The Pro-Choice movement is important to this. I think the sooner we can win this debate, the sooner we can devote our resources to working with these other problems.
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kentuckyjoe

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Posted: 06-03-08 10:01am

Oh yes, for the record, I believe very much in the philosophy of Christ but not what I view as the religion of Christianity. I believe very much in God and have one prayer only. "Thank you God for what I have. Help me to do a little bit of good today."
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aochriss

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Posted: 06-04-08 00:38am

kentuckyjoe wrote:
aochriss and diamondsz, thank you for your comments. These are the kinds of issues we have to address! The Pro-Choice movement is important to this. I think the sooner we can win this debate, the sooner we can devote our resources to working with these other problems.


This is also answering your previous post in which you state you think the pro-choice side is losing, we don't have as many billboards, websites, etc., etc.


We have already won this debate. It happened decades ago when Roe was passed. The reason we don't have as many billboards and websites is because ABORTION IS LEGAL. WE WON.
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aochriss

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Posted: 06-04-08 00:40am

Reptar wrote:
A bit off-topic but in my own city we had a billboard that said women could elect for abortion while 9 months pregnant. This is obviously not true yet they were given the go-ahead to put this up. I was disgusted by this attempt to discredit abortionists and the women that receive them in the 3rd trimester. I don't see any pro-choice billboards stating how many women die from pregnancy or this from pregnancy, but I think the reason is because we're not fighting against a law, we're fighting so they can't pass a law.


EXACTLY.

p.s. "abortionist" is a pro-life smear word. Abortion doctor or just doctor is neutral language.
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kentuckyjoe

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Posted: 06-05-08 19:09pm

aochriss, we are one vote on the Supreme Court from loosing Roe. Don't think for a second that this can't happen. You must be from a "Blue State" because if you were from a "Red State", you'd see how badly we're loosing.

I'm continually trying to make a point here. From a Christian moral perspective, abortion is irrelevant. What matters is that that hundreds of millions of children are hungry or starving. While we are congratulating ourselves about preserving the right to an abortion, we aren't feeding these children. Shame on the Pro-Life groups for ignoring this but shame on us also for being so smug while so many children need our help.
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