Beline
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Posted: 05-05-08 00:23am
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Not ‘he probably shouldn't get it.’ He
shouldn’t get the baby at all, but I
know what you mean. 
The ideal would be not to get pregnant
from a scumbag in the first place, but
alas, I did too. The fact that we were
married made it much harder.
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Snug
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Re: Fathers having say?
Posted: 05-05-08 09:13am
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| saria231
wrote: | | Something I come across
often when I volunteer, are fathers of
aborted children who are hurt because they
didn't have a choice to whether the baby
lived or not. It especially hurts when the
father is upset and the mother is putting
him down for it. I don't know if you guys
agree with it, but I think it should be a
50/50 decision between both the mother and
father. Because a woman can't impregnate
herself. And if the father wants to raise
and give the baby a good life, then why
can't he? I understand if the woman was
raped or whatnot, but if there is someone
who is there and wants to support, then
they should have that chance. What do you
guys think? |
I think that as soon as you can come up
with a procedure that is no more invasive
than abortion, and allows you to transfer
the embryo to the man to gestate, then we
can talk. Until then, the woman gets the
veto power over the pregnancy.
That said, I would hope that people would
discuss important issues like what to do
about an unintended pregnancy BEFORE they
start honking the bobo.
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Users who thank Snug for this post:
Darkmoon
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Birch
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Posted: 05-05-08 16:47pm
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How ironic that for millenia women have
gotten the short end of the stick, and now
that they have a leg up on reproductive
decisions people debate about giving the
male the right to decide her gestational
practices.
I would touch this issue regarding
legislation with a ten foot pole.
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jujujellybean
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Posted: 05-05-08 18:07pm
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| Jude-Love
wrote: | So I guess if the baby is
half is, he's allowed to demand abortion.
He should have a
say. |
He doesn't have the right to demand, but
he should have a say in what happens.
demanding is not having a say that is him
taking over!
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AyaMiyaki
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Posted: 05-05-08 19:38pm
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He's entitled to his opinion. His opinion
has no legal bearing over her choice,
though.
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Darkmoon
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Posted: 05-05-08 19:38pm
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Men's collective batting average as far as
taking responsibility for their own
offspring is abysmal. Even in
"partnership", men rarely put as much
effort into parenting or make as many
sacrifices. Why should this gender that
is known for beating women into
miscarriage, rape, spousal abuse and child
neglect be legally given the ultimate
power in reproductive decisions? Not only
do men risk nothing in the process of
reproduction but most of them aren't
willing to take on the role of primary
caregiver or single parent.
How many of these men would actually put
their money where their ego is and do all
the work raising these children they force
women to bear for them? Looking at human
history I can guarantee that the numbers
aren't good. This is all about giving men
ultimate control over women again, not
saving babies.
Suddenly bringing the man's responsibility
into it when it can be used as a weapon to
control women's bodies doesn't change the
fact that when women abort, 90% of
prolifers hold them 100% responsible and
forget that a man was even involved in
creating the unwanted or dangerous
pregnancy in the first place.
Prolifers only care about the male
involvement in the pregnancy when it might
be used to force women to breed against
their will. In any other circumstance
they think women magically knock
themselves up (on purpose no less, because
we evil stupid womenfolk just love a good
abortion after the movies!)
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aochriss
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Posted: 05-05-08 19:44pm
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I thought it was already the case that a
father gets custody if he wants it and the
woman doesn't?
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Reptar
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Posted: 05-05-08 19:56pm
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| Darkmoon
wrote: | Men's collective batting
average as far as taking responsibility
for their own offspring is abysmal. Even
in "partnership", men rarely put as much
effort into parenting or make as many
sacrifices. Why should this gender that
is known for beating women into
miscarriage, rape, spousal abuse and child
neglect be legally given the ultimate
power in reproductive decisions? Not only
do men risk nothing in the process of
reproduction but most of them aren't
willing to take on the role of primary
caregiver or single parent.
How many of these men would actually put
their money where their ego is and do all
the work raising these children they force
women to bear for them? Looking at human
history I can guarantee that the numbers
aren't good. This is all about giving men
ultimate control over women again, not
saving babies.
Suddenly bringing the man's responsibility
into it when it can be used as a weapon to
control women's bodies doesn't change the
fact that when women abort, 90% of
prolifers hold them 100% responsible and
forget that a man was even involved in
creating the unwanted or dangerous
pregnancy in the first place.
Prolifers only care about the male
involvement in the pregnancy when it might
be used to force women to breed against
their will. In any other circumstance
they think women magically knock
themselves up (on purpose no less, because
we evil stupid womenfolk just love a good
abortion after the
movies!) |
Darkmoon, you're just pure amazing. Thank
you for this.
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jujujellybean
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Posted: 05-05-08 22:37pm
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and you got those statistics where? hmmm?
Because I don't.
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meblonde01
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Posted: 05-06-08 11:42am
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yep it's her choice to abort and her
choice not to. But, should she decide to
keep the baby it's not his choice to pay
for 18+ years or not. It’s her choice.
So it really isn't choice for people in
general it's choice for “only” the
pregnant woman. The baby has no choice nor
the father.
So pro-choice should be called..
Pro-choice for pregnant women.
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Birch
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Posted: 05-06-08 13:17pm
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Hi Marty! Long time no see!
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saria231
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Vancouver, Washington, U.S.A.
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Posted: 05-06-08 13:39pm
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But 9 months compared to 18+ years.......
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saria231
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Vancouver, Washington, U.S.A.
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Posted: 05-06-08 13:43pm
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| Birch
wrote: | How ironic that for millenia
women have gotten the short end of the
stick, and now that they have a leg up on
reproductive decisions people debate about
giving the male the right to decide her
gestational practices.
I would touch this issue regarding
legislation with a ten foot
pole. |
I'm not saying he should have definite
power over the woman he impregnates. I'm
saying he should be able to fight for his
child.
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aochriss
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Posted: 05-06-08 14:00pm
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I think too many people have no idea how
painful and debilitating pregnancy can be,
and how horrifyingly agonizing childbirth
is. We do not allow prisoners to be
subjected to this amount of pain.
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Users who thank aochriss for this post:
Darkmoon
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Birch
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Posted: 05-06-08 14:52pm
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| saria231
wrote: | | Birch
wrote: | How ironic that for millenia
women have gotten the short end of the
stick, and now that they have a leg up on
reproductive decisions people debate about
giving the male the right to decide her
gestational practices.
I would touch this issue regarding
legislation with a ten foot
pole. |
I'm not saying he should have definite
power over the woman he impregnates. I'm
saying he should be able to fight for his
child. |
How do you propose that he should be able
to fight for his child?
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jujujellybean
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Posted: 05-07-08 09:13am
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| jujujellybean
wrote: | | and you got those statistics
where? hmmm? Because I
don't. |
why is there no answer to this? don't yall
realize she coulda made those up?
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meblonde01
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Posted: 05-07-08 10:52am
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| Birch
wrote: | | Hi Marty! Long time no
see! |
Hi Ya Birchie! 
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Snug
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Posted: 05-08-08 15:26pm
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| saria231
wrote: | | Birch
wrote: | How ironic that for millenia
women have gotten the short end of the
stick, and now that they have a leg up on
reproductive decisions people debate about
giving the male the right to decide her
gestational practices.
I would touch this issue regarding
legislation with a ten foot
pole. |
I'm not saying he should have definite
power over the woman he impregnates. I'm
saying he should be able to fight for his
child. |
There's nothing stopping any man from
trying to talk a woman he has impregnated
out of having an abortion.
Heck, there's even nothing stopping him
from offering her incentives to go through
with the pregnancy.
But that's where his ability to "fight"
ends. He can't kidnap her and lock her up
in his basement. He CAN abuse the court
system with frivolous lawsuits, but he
won't win, any more than he would win if
he was suing to prevent her from having
any other legal medical procedure.
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Users who thank Snug for this post:
Reptar
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NeutralUsername
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Posted: 05-08-08 16:14pm
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| Darkmoon
wrote: | Men's collective batting
average as far as taking responsibility
for their own offspring is abysmal. Even
in "partnership", men rarely put as much
effort into parenting or make as many
sacrifices. Why should this gender that
is known for beating women into
miscarriage, rape, spousal abuse and child
neglect be legally given the ultimate
power in reproductive decisions? Not only
do men risk nothing in the process of
reproduction but most of them aren't
willing to take on the role of primary
caregiver or single parent.
How many of these men would actually put
their money where their ego is and do all
the work raising these children they force
women to bear for them? Looking at human
history I can guarantee that the numbers
aren't good. This is all about giving men
ultimate control over women again, not
saving babies.
Suddenly bringing the man's responsibility
into it when it can be used as a weapon to
control women's bodies doesn't change the
fact that when women abort, 90% of
prolifers hold them 100% responsible and
forget that a man was even involved in
creating the unwanted or dangerous
pregnancy in the first place.
Prolifers only care about the male
involvement in the pregnancy when it might
be used to force women to breed against
their will. In any other circumstance
they think women magically knock
themselves up (on purpose no less, because
we evil stupid womenfolk just love a good
abortion after the
movies!) |
You have a rather negative view of men.
And what exactly are women known for? I
mean, you generalized a whole gender
already. You don't like it when pro-lifers
do it, right? "Women are supposed to
breed!" is bad, but "Men are violent woman
beaters" is okay?
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Snug
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
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Posted: 05-08-08 17:20pm
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| antibigot
wrote: | | Darkmoon
wrote: | Men's collective batting
average as far as taking responsibility
for their own offspring is abysmal. Even
in "partnership", men rarely put as much
effort into parenting or make as many
sacrifices. Why should this gender that
is known for beating women into
miscarriage, rape, spousal abuse and child
neglect be legally given the ultimate
power in reproductive decisions? Not only
do men risk nothing in the process of
reproduction but most of them aren't
willing to take on the role of primary
caregiver or single parent.
How many of these men would actually put
their money where their ego is and do all
the work raising these children they force
women to bear for them? Looking at human
history I can guarantee that the numbers
aren't good. This is all about giving men
ultimate control over women again, not
saving babies.
Suddenly bringing the man's responsibility
into it when it can be used as a weapon to
control women's bodies doesn't change the
fact that when women abort, 90% of
prolifers hold them 100% responsible and
forget that a man was even involved in
creating the unwanted or dangerous
pregnancy in the first place.
Prolifers only care about the male
involvement in the pregnancy when it might
be used to force women to breed against
their will. In any other circumstance
they think women magically knock
themselves up (on purpose no less, because
we evil stupid womenfolk just love a good
abortion after the
movies!) |
You have a rather negative view of men.
And what exactly are women known for? I
mean, you generalized a whole gender
already. You don't like it when pro-lifers
do it, right? "Women are supposed to
breed!" is bad, but "Men are violent woman
beaters" is
okay? |
Ohferfork'ssake. ""Men are violent woman
beaters" isn't even close to what Darkmoon
said. All she was pointing out was that a
lot of men don't have a terrific track
record as far as looking after their
spawn.
She also alluded to the fact that limiting
women's reproductive freedom is about
control. I know that those who oppose
abortion would (and will) disagree with
that statement. But why else would
someone want to wipe their butt with the
Constitution, and give fetuses superior
rights to grown women?
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Users who thank Snug for this post:
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