I know abortion kills a child; its still mothers option
40%
[ 10 ]
abortion DOES NOT kill a child; that's ludicrous
32%
[ 8 ]
abortion kills a child, but is ok only sometimes
8%
[ 2 ]
abortion kills a child; that's why its all wrong!
20%
[ 5 ]
Total Votes : 25
Author
Message
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Posted: 04-28-08 10:23am
jujujellybean
wrote:
You can tell me all you want. feel free.
Like I said, I don't care what people do
with their bodies, as long as they don't
kill a child. As long as a life is not
ended. Babies are killed in abortion.
Can't you see
that?
Why do you want to tell women you have
never known, or will never know, what to
do with their own personal medical
decisions?
If you do not like abortion, do not have
one. Let every individual live with their
own decisions, their own morals, their own
conscience. You do not need to take on
the conscience of others.
Yes, abortion kills the
fetus/embryo/child/baby/widget. That's
the goal. I have had an abortion [*gasp*]
incidentally. So I do know first hand.
|
jujujellybean
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 133 Location: , US
Thanks: 0
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-01-08 09:21am
Birch
wrote:
jujujellybean
wrote:
You can tell me all you want. feel free.
Like I said, I don't care what people do
with their bodies, as long as they don't
kill a child. As long as a life is not
ended. Babies are killed in abortion.
Can't you see
that?
Why do you want to tell women you have
never known, or will never know, what to
do with their own personal medical
decisions?
If you do not like abortion, do not have
one. Let every individual live with their
own decisions, their own morals, their own
conscience. You do not need to take on
the conscience of others.
Yes, abortion kills the
fetus/embryo/child/baby/widget. That's
the goal. I have had an abortion [*gasp*]
incidentally. So I do know first hand.
When their own personal medical decisions
involve killing a person, I have a right
to make it my business. If you saw someone
being killed on the street you had never
met what would you do? Stand there or call
911?
I am not taking on the consciences of
others simply trying to stop the killing
of babies it's as simple as that.
I find it so sad when people realize this
and just don't care.
|
oopoopoop
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 1519 Location: ,
Thanks: 78
Thanked:5
Posted: 05-01-08 10:49am
jujujellybean
wrote:
When their own personal medical decisions
involve killing a person, I have a right
to make it my business. If you saw someone
being killed on the street you had never
met what would you do? Stand there or call
911?
I am not taking on the consciences of
others simply trying to stop the killing
of babies it's as simple as that.
I find it so sad when people realize this
and just don't
care.
I think the fundamental flaw in your
argument is that no one is out there
killing babies (except quite a lot of
people who didn't have abortions, of
course -- it is parents who are
responsible for the vast majority of
murders of children). Anyway -- I just
don't see all these folks saying "hmm,
should I have an abortion? Or should I
just go and kill some kid in the street?
Abortion this time, I think!"
I think it's seriously silly to equate
embryos and a baby who was wanted and
born.
|
jujujellybean
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 133 Location: , US
Thanks: 0
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-01-08 14:59pm
oopoopoop
wrote:
jujujellybean
wrote:
When their own personal medical decisions
involve killing a person, I have a right
to make it my business. If you saw someone
being killed on the street you had never
met what would you do? Stand there or call
911?
I am not taking on the consciences of
others simply trying to stop the killing
of babies it's as simple as that.
I find it so sad when people realize this
and just don't
care.
I think the fundamental flaw in your
argument is that no one is out there
killing babies (except quite a lot of
people who didn't have abortions, of
course -- it is parents who are
responsible for the vast majority of
murders of children). Anyway -- I just
don't see all these folks saying "hmm,
should I have an abortion? Or should I
just go and kill some kid in the street?
Abortion this time, I think!"
I think it's seriously silly to equate
embryos and a baby who was wanted and
born.
Well then you think it is silly to use
science. IT IS alive, IT IS a human in the
earliest stages of development, IT IS a
baby, because then you wouldn't be
pregnant.
When, may I ask, does it magically become
a baby? When the mother wants it? When
does it just turn into a baby all of a
sudden?
No you don't kill a kid in the street. But
when you have an abortion, you are
stopping a child from ever being in that
street, killing it.
|
oopoopoop
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 1519 Location: ,
Thanks: 78
Thanked:5
Posted: 05-01-08 17:02pm
jujujellybean
wrote:
oopoopoop
wrote:
jujujellybean
wrote:
When their own personal medical decisions
involve killing a person, I have a right
to make it my business. If you saw someone
being killed on the street you had never
met what would you do? Stand there or call
911?
I am not taking on the consciences of
others simply trying to stop the killing
of babies it's as simple as that.
I find it so sad when people realize this
and just don't
care.
I think the fundamental flaw in your
argument is that no one is out there
killing babies (except quite a lot of
people who didn't have abortions, of
course -- it is parents who are
responsible for the vast majority of
murders of children). Anyway -- I just
don't see all these folks saying "hmm,
should I have an abortion? Or should I
just go and kill some kid in the street?
Abortion this time, I think!"
I think it's seriously silly to equate
embryos and a baby who was wanted and
born.
But it's completely irrelevant. It's a
baby when it's been born. If it can live
outside the uterus, then it can have
whatever human rights you want to give it.
Up until that instant, the woman is the
only one with rights.
Well then you think it is silly to use
science. IT IS alive, IT IS a human in the
earliest stages of development, IT IS a
baby, because then you wouldn't be
pregnant.
When, may I ask, does it magically become
a baby? When the mother wants it? When
does it just turn into a baby all of a
sudden?
No you don't kill a kid in the street. But
when you have an abortion, you are
stopping a child from ever being in that
street, killing
it.
|
Beline
Supporter
Joined: 01 Mar 2008 Posts: 499 Location: , South Africa
Thanks: 131
Thanked:150
Posted: 05-02-08 04:08am
Jules, I’ve read this entire debate, and
I what to ask you a question or two. If a
woman’s life is in danger because she is
pregnant (eg very high blood pressure
brought on by the pregnancy) would you
consider it okay for her to have an
abortion, seeing that they both could
die?
And if a girl/woman is raped, and she
falls pregnant, would it be okay to abort?
I personally would just loose it if this
happened to me, and to have a constant, 40
week reminder of what happened to you..
Sorry, I can’t even fathom that. How do
you feel about that?
|
Jules
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3843 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
Thanks: 95
Thanked:77
online
Posted: 05-02-08 05:31am
Beline
wrote:
Jules, I’ve read this
entire debate, and I what to ask you a
question or two. If a woman’s life is in
danger because she is pregnant (eg very
high blood pressure brought on by the
pregnancy) would you consider it okay for
her to have an abortion, seeing that they
both could die?
And if a girl/woman is raped, and she
falls pregnant, would it be okay to abort?
I personally would just loose it if this
happened to me, and to have a constant, 40
week reminder of what happened to you..
Sorry, I can’t even fathom that. How do
you feel about
that?
Are you really directing this at me or do
you mean it for jujujellie?
In case you do mean me I will answer you
Assuming the only treatment available for
this high blood pressure was removal of
the foetus then I would support abortion
if the baby was non-viable or if a
c-section would seriously endanger the
life of the mother.
If a woman is raped and doesn't want to
continue the pregnancy then I would accept
her right to have an abortion.
|
Beline
Supporter
Joined: 01 Mar 2008 Posts: 499 Location: , South Africa
Thanks: 131
Thanked:150
Posted: 05-02-08 09:29am
Oops! Jujujelliebeans and I have been
exchanging pm’s and I started calling
her Jules. (Her name is Julie) Sorry about
the confusion.
|
Jules
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3843 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
Thanks: 95
Thanked:77
online
Posted: 05-02-08 10:46am
Beline
wrote:
Oops! Jujujelliebeans and I
have been exchanging pm’s and I started
calling her Jules. (Her name is Julie)
Sorry about the
confusion.
LOL - I did think it was odd since I
hadn't really participated thus far!
No worries!
|
aochriss
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 30 Apr 2008 Posts: 742
Thanks: 93
Thanked:175
Posted: 05-02-08 14:04pm
jujujellybean
wrote:
Well then you think it is silly to use
science. IT IS alive, IT IS a
human in the earliest stages of
development, IT IS a baby, because then
you wouldn't be pregnant.
When, may I ask, does it magically become
a baby? When the mother wants it? When
does it just turn into a baby all of a
sudden?
No you don't kill a kid in the street. But
when you have an abortion, you are
stopping a child from ever being in that
street, killing
it.
I'd like to see some scientific proof of
the things in bold, please.
|
Beline
Supporter
Joined: 01 Mar 2008 Posts: 499 Location: , South Africa
Thanks: 131
Thanked:150
Posted: 05-03-08 01:08am
Thanks, Jules.
I just want to add that hypertension was
only an example. The mother could be
suffering from a heart condition as well.
I just wanted Juju’s opinion on medical
abortion.
Aochriss, Juju raised a very good point
here. When would you start considering the
fetus as a baby?
|
jujujellybean
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 133 Location: , US
Thanks: 0
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-03-08 08:29am
aochriss
wrote:
jujujellybean
wrote:
Well then you think it is silly to use
science. IT IS alive, IT IS a
human in the earliest stages of
development, IT IS a baby, because then
you wouldn't be pregnant.
When, may I ask, does it magically become
a baby? When the mother wants it? When
does it just turn into a baby all of a
sudden?
No you don't kill a kid in the street. But
when you have an abortion, you are
stopping a child from ever being in that
street, killing
it.
I'd like to see some scientific proof of
the things in bold,
please.
Sure. Lets see: it's not a cow, and since
it is coming from a human, it is
automatically a homo sapiens. It is a
human embryo, that is obvious. And, since
baby is what we use to qualify a little
person, baby is what it is; look it up on
dictionary.com and you will see under baby
it says unborn fetus.
|
jujujellybean
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 133 Location: , US
Thanks: 0
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-03-08 08:33am
Beline
wrote:
Jules, I’ve read this
entire debate, and I what to ask you a
question or two. If a woman’s life is in
danger because she is pregnant (eg very
high blood pressure brought on by the
pregnancy) would you consider it okay for
her to have an abortion, seeing that they
both could die?
And if a girl/woman is raped, and she
falls pregnant, would it be okay to abort?
I personally would just loose it if this
happened to me, and to have a constant, 40
week reminder of what happened to you..
Sorry, I can’t even fathom that. How do
you feel about
that?
Well, I guess I think the same as the
Church: it doesn't do any good to do
something evil so good may result. Which
makes sense to me!
Also about rape, that would be hard, but
rape is the only time an innocent
bystander can be killed for doing
absolutely nothing. It doesn't make sense
to me to kill the child for something that
was no one's fault.
|
Beline
Supporter
Joined: 01 Mar 2008 Posts: 499 Location: , South Africa
Thanks: 131
Thanked:150
Posted: 05-03-08 09:07am
Point taken, but don’t you think
that’s a little harsh?
I know a lady who was diagnosed with
cancer shortly after she found out that
she was pregnant. To say something to her
in the order of; ‘We are not going to
treat you - you are pregnant. You and your
baby are just going to have to die.’
Ouch.
I think it is better to save one life
rather than to have both die.
And as far as rapes go: maybe you should
find a forum like this one, one where rape
victims can go to for help and support.
Maybe if you understand what these women
go through for the rest of their lives you
will change your mind.
Just a suggestion.
|
cmyked
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 294
Thanks: 50
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-03-08 12:38pm
oopoopoop
wrote:
jujujellybean
wrote:
Babies are killed in
abortion. Can't you see
that?
But you see, not everyone LIKES babies.
The point is to get rid of it before it IS
a baby, because you don't want one of
those.
If I didn't like you that wouldn't give me
a right to kill you.
|
Snug
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 12 Dec 2007 Posts: 151 Location: In the jacuzzi, silly.
Thanks: 21
Thanked:0
Posted: 05-05-08 09:08am
jujujellybean
wrote:
Well then you think it is silly to use
science. IT IS alive, IT IS a human in the
earliest stages of development, IT IS a
baby, because then you wouldn't be
pregnant.
When, may I ask, does it magically become
a baby? When the mother wants it? When
does it just turn into a baby all of a
sudden?
Why do you insist that others use your
terminology?
You want to say, "Abortion kills a baby!"
Fine. I say abortion kills an embryo or
fetus.
We're both correct, so it's all good.
|
oopoopoop
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 1519 Location: ,
Thanks: 78
Thanked:5
Posted: 05-05-08 13:49pm
2ccapezza
wrote:
oopoopoop
wrote:
jujujellybean
wrote:
Babies are killed in
abortion. Can't you see
that?
But you see, not everyone LIKES babies.
The point is to get rid of it before it IS
a baby, because you don't want one of
those.
If I didn't like you that wouldn't give me
a right to kill
you.
If I ever decide to take up residence in
one of your internal organs, you have my
permission to kill me.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Posted: 05-05-08 16:53pm
Beline
wrote:
Point taken, but don’t you
think that’s a little harsh?
I know a lady who was diagnosed with
cancer shortly after she found out that
she was pregnant. To say something to her
in the order of; ‘We are not going to
treat you - you are pregnant. You and your
baby are just going to have to die.’
Ouch.
I think it is better to save one life
rather than to have both die.
And as far as rapes go: maybe you should
find a forum like this one, one where rape
victims can go to for help and support.
Maybe if you understand what these women
go through for the rest of their lives you
will change your mind.
Just a
suggestion.
I think juju's position is consistant, at
least. If she were conditionally prolife,
and decided rape was an allowable
exception, then the focus of her prolife
philosophy shifts on the circumstances of
conception (ie; women's punishment)
instead of the sanctity of the life.
I do not agree, but I appreciate the
consistancy in this view. Anything else
is inconsistant, and since prohibiting
abortion in rape cases is ethically
disgusting (my opinion) prolife philosophy
holds no water, period.
|
jujujellybean
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 133 Location: , US
Thanks: 0
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-05-08 17:59pm
Beline
wrote:
Point taken, but don’t you
think that’s a little harsh?
I know a lady who was diagnosed with
cancer shortly after she found out that
she was pregnant. To say something to her
in the order of; ‘We are not going to
treat you - you are pregnant. You and your
baby are just going to have to die.’
Ouch.
I think it is better to save one life
rather than to have both die.
And as far as rapes go: maybe you should
find a forum like this one, one where rape
victims can go to for help and support.
Maybe if you understand what these women
go through for the rest of their lives you
will change your mind.
Just a
suggestion.
perhaps. but if it is a choice between the
mother and the baby, it is not right to
have to do something evil so that
something good can come out of it.
And believe me, I do understand about
rape. If I was raped, and got pregnant, I
would feel utter despair. I am pretty sure
that it would ruin my life and everything
i have come to know. The thing is, that
doesnt'justify killing. It's nobodies
fault, except the loser that did it, and
so it doesn't make sense that the baby
should have to take up the worst end.
|
jujujellybean
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 133 Location: , US
Thanks: 0
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-05-08 18:01pm
Birch
wrote:
Beline
wrote:
Point taken, but don’t you
think that’s a little harsh?
I know a lady who was diagnosed with
cancer shortly after she found out that
she was pregnant. To say something to her
in the order of; ‘We are not going to
treat you - you are pregnant. You and your
baby are just going to have to die.’
Ouch.
I think it is better to save one life
rather than to have both die.
And as far as rapes go: maybe you should
find a forum like this one, one where rape
victims can go to for help and support.
Maybe if you understand what these women
go through for the rest of their lives you
will change your mind.
Just a
suggestion.
I think juju's position is consistant, at
least. If she were conditionally prolife,
and decided rape was an allowable
exception, then the focus of her prolife
philosophy shifts on the circumstances of
conception (ie; women's punishment)
instead of the sanctity of the life.
I do not agree, but I appreciate the
consistancy in this view. Anything else
is inconsistant, and since prohibiting
abortion in rape cases is ethically
disgusting (my opinion) prolife philosophy
holds no water,
period.
Thanks birch! a compliment from you is
pretty amazing. I'll take it!
