You said:"Why? You don't let grown women
make their own decisions" responding to MY
comment. I responded back by saying that
you must like to stereotype. I said that
because you assume I can't POSSIBLY have
an open mind and be prolife at the same
time because you appear to think
pro-lifers all just want to control
women.
The point is, NeutralU, that the term
"pro-life" is used to mean those who would
try to make abortion illegal, so that the
choice to have an abortion is taken away
from the woman. Pro-choice is used to mean
those who think abortion should be legal
and available, and it is up to the woman
to make her own choice about her
pregnancy. It therefore doesn't really
seem possible for someone who labels
themselves as "pro-life" to raise their
children to make up their own minds, and
to accept that they may become pro-choice.
Because someone who is pro-life wants to
remove the pro-choice option from
everyone.
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anniek
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
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Posted: 06-20-08 16:11pm
Sorry you are a labeling all pro-life. I
am and I still want my children to decide
things for themselves. Pushing beleifs on
to them will only make them rebel. I want
my children to make up their own minds.
They will know what I think but I won't
begrudge them for beleiving what they want
to. And yes I will accept if they are
prochoice even if it's not what I am. They
are my children and I want them to be
independent people and I will always love
them!
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oopoopoop
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Posted: 06-20-08 16:51pm
anniek
wrote:
Sorry you are a labeling all
pro-life. I am and I still want my
children to decide things for themselves.
Pushing beleifs on to them will only make
them rebel. I want my children to make up
their own minds. They will know what I
think but I won't begrudge them for
beleiving what they want to. And yes I
will accept if they are prochoice even if
it's not what I am. They are my children
and I want them to be independent people
and I will always love
them!
Can I just ask, then, if you are pro-life
do you want to see all abortion banned? If
abortion is banned, then your children
could be "pro-choice" all they liked, it
wouldn't do them any good. They could
believe in the having the choice of
abortion all they liked, but they might as
well believe in fairies living at the
bottom of the garden.
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Snug
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
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Re: I'm raising my kids pro-choice Posted: 06-20-08 18:08pm
diamondsz
wrote:
I am raising my kids to be
open-minded and pro-choice, I dont know
about anyone else but what do you
think.
I'm not going to be having any children,
but if I did, I would be very disappointed
if they were anti-choice. It would mean
that I had failed to teach them that
without the liberty to control one's own
body, all other liberties are rather
irrelevant. And failing to teach them
that would mean I had failed as a parent.
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AyaMiyaki
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Posted: 06-20-08 21:24pm
I'm planning to raise my children to be
tolerant and open-minded about all things,
not just abortion. You can disagree with
someone or something without wanting YOUR
opinion to become law. I feel the same way
about abortion as I do about gay rights -
live your life the way you feel is right,
and allow others to do the same. Just
because I wouldn't have an abortion
doesn't mean another woman shouldn't be
able to get one without risking her life
and health.
I want my children to respect other people
and their beliefs. I want them to feel
they are free to make their own choices,
and to believe that others are also free
to do the same. Hopefully by the time
they're old enough to know what's going
on, gay marriage will be legal
nation-wide. It would be nice if the rift
between pro-choice and pro-life would be
somewhat healed, whether through
education, advances in science, or what
have you. But yes, I will try to teach
them to be tolerant, so that they will
naturally come around to a pro-choice
view. Not necessarily pro-abortion, but
pro-CHOICE.
- "live your life the way you feel is
right, and allow others to do the same."
I agree... but what happens when this
infringes on peoples futures and lives?
This mindset ,with no control, leads to a
little thing called anarchy and
corruption. (which aren't really
considered positive things)
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AyaMiyaki
Especially EHEALTHy
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Posted: 06-21-08 12:10pm
What people are you talking about? The
unborn? Giving the unborn rights over the
mother's body is lessening her own rights.
Every person on this planet has the right
to control their own body.
If you go swimming in a river and get a
Candiru (otherwise known as a penis fish)
lodged in your happy area, are you not
allowed to have it removed? What gives you
the right to take it out of your body? Its
body is not YOUR body!
...but it IS in your penis. The penis is
yours, and you reserve the right to
control everything about it, including
anything organic inside of it that isn't a
part of your own body. Would removing it
kill it? Probably. Does that mean you
shouldn't be allowed to do it? Absolutely
not.
"Every person on this planet has the right
to control their own body"-- but
developing children don't!
An animal is different from that of a
person or potential person. A penis fish
can't become human nor, choose between
right and wrong. Your trying to equate an
animal with a developing potential child!
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AyaMiyaki
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Posted: 06-21-08 12:26pm
By "developing children", I assume you're
talking about the unborn. Every child is
developing, and no one here is condemning
violence against born children.
Unborn children have a perfect right to
their own body. It's just a shame that
their body can't exist without their
mother's body. I would advocate removing
the unborn child completely without
killing it, if such a thing were possible.
Science hasn't advanced to that state yet
unfortunately. Their body is inside their
mother's body, which she has every right
to control.
And my dear, it was an analogy. Of course
a Candiru isn't human - I never said it
was. But if it invaded your body, you'd
have the right to remove it, wouldn't you?
Regardless of whether the removal would
kill it? What if an animal rights activist
tried to make it illegal to remove
parasites from your body? Would you be
upset, having some long disgusting fish
stuck in your penis because some other guy
decided HE didn't like you killing it?
And by the by, the unborn can't choose
between right or wrong either. Neither can
newborn babies, or even infants. I'm not
seeing your point here, sugar.
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16 father
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 123
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Posted: 06-21-08 12:49pm
And by the by, the unborn can't choose
between right or wrong either. Neither can
newborn babies, or even infants...
the fact is they can all they need is the
time to develop. Just like a child has the
right to become an adult, a potential
person has the right to become a child.
Hopefully you can see that ,honey.
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AyaMiyaki
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Posted: 06-21-08 12:52pm
"Potential persons" do not have rights.
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16 father
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Posted: 06-21-08 12:55pm
African Americans were also not given
rights either ,during the slavery era.
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AyaMiyaki
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Posted: 06-21-08 13:00pm
Yes, let us please compare living
breathing thinking people to small
micro-organisms the size of my thumb who
can neither think, breathe, nor survive
outside its hosts (mother's) body. What a
fair comparison.
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16 father
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 123
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Posted: 06-21-08 13:02pm
What about people in nursing homes or
people on life support why don't we kill
them too? their dependent on other people,
so that makes it okay right?
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AyaMiyaki
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Posted: 06-21-08 13:05pm
Nope. They're born (protected by law) and
aren't relying on another person's body to
survive. Also not a fair comparison. Nice
try though.
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16 father
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Posted: 06-21-08 13:11pm
They're born (protected by law)...being an
unborn child and having a lack of rights
is found no where in the constitution.
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Birch
Supporter
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Posted: 06-21-08 14:19pm
I guessed they should have consulted women
for input when they created the
constitution.
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NeutralUsername
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Posted: 06-22-08 12:45pm
Birch
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
I would raise my kids to
make up their OWN mind on what side of the
abortion debate they want to be. It can be
pro-choice, pro-life, mostly pro-choice,
mostly pro-life, in the middle, no
opinion, etc.
Why? You don't let grown women make their
own decisions.
antrise
wrote:
at the age of 51 i have
had intercouse with two women. my first
wife god rest her soul and my second wife.
so this all sounds like a bunch of hogwash
to me.
This is so typical of conservative prolife
advocates; 1. because it didn't happen to
me, it's a lie and 2.
Respond not to the subject but make some
inane comment to beat away
reality.
What do you mean "why"? Apparently, you
like to stereotype. I bet you think ALL
kinds of things about me. Yet, you
probably whine about it happening to you.
Tell me, what else do you assume about me?
I'd like a
laugh!
I will assume that you aren't a stickler
for details. I was responding to
antrise's comment. There's your laugh.
Enjoy.
Your prolife advocacy is plastered all
over the board. That means that you do
not want grown women to make their own
decisions. So why would you let your
children?
You said:"Why? You don't let grown women
make their own decisions" responding to MY
comment. I responded back by saying that
you must like to stereotype. I said that
because you assume I can't POSSIBLY have
an open mind and be prolife at the same
time because you appear to think
pro-lifers all just want to control
women.
The irony is that you claim I assume this
and that, and then make assumptions of me.
I tire of these
games.
You make assumptions based just on a
pro-life view. You proved it by your
comment to me. You appear to believe ALL
pro-lifers are the same. If you didn't,
you wouldn't have responded to me that
way! You don't even KNOW what my beliefs
are. Yet, your response implied that I
just want to control women. What am I
supposed to assume? I go by your comments,
not by your pro-choice views.
|
NeutralUsername
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Posted: 06-22-08 13:02pm
oopoopoop
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
You said:"Why? You don't let grown women
make their own decisions" responding to MY
comment. I responded back by saying that
you must like to stereotype. I said that
because you assume I can't POSSIBLY have
an open mind and be prolife at the same
time because you appear to think
pro-lifers all just want to control
women.
The point is, NeutralU, that the term
"pro-life" is used to mean those who would
try to make abortion illegal, so that the
choice to have an abortion is taken away
from the woman. Pro-choice is used to mean
those who think abortion should be legal
and available, and it is up to the woman
to make her own choice about her
pregnancy. It therefore doesn't really
seem possible for someone who labels
themselves as "pro-life" to raise their
children to make up their own minds, and
to accept that they may become pro-choice.
Because someone who is pro-life wants to
remove the pro-choice option from
everyone.
Hmm. Do you feel the same about
pro-choicers? Do you think they should
raise their children pro-choice, or raise
them to decide what side of the abortion
debate they want to be on? If it doesn't
seem possible for a pro-lifer to raise
children to make up their own minds, is it
possible for a pro-choicer to do so?
I wasn't raised pro- or anti-ANYTHING. I
got to decide on MY OWN what to believe. I
choose to be a pro-life, pro-gay rights
atheist. My pro-life beliefs aren't even
extreme. I do not have the exact same
beliefs as my parents. My parents views
even differ from each other. Sometimes we
even get in debates. It would be pretty
darn boring if we all believed the same
thing.
|
oopoopoop
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 1264 Location: ,
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Posted: 06-22-08 14:12pm
NeutralUsername
wrote:
[quote="oopoopoopThe point
is, NeutralU, that the term "pro-life" is
used to mean those who would try to make
abortion illegal, so that the choice to
have an abortion is taken away from the
woman. Pro-choice is used to mean those
who think abortion should be legal and
available, and it is up to the woman to
make her own choice about her pregnancy.
It therefore doesn't really seem possible
for someone who labels themselves as
"pro-life" to raise their children to make
up their own minds, and to accept that
they may become pro-choice. Because
someone who is pro-life wants to remove
the pro-choice option from
everyone.
Hmm. Do you feel the same about
pro-choicers? Do you think they should
raise their children pro-choice, or raise
them to decide what side of the abortion
debate they want to be on? If it doesn't
seem possible for a pro-lifer to raise
children to make up their own minds, is it
possible for a pro-choicer to do so?
I wasn't raised pro- or anti-ANYTHING. I
got to decide on MY OWN what to believe. I
choose to be a pro-life, pro-gay rights
atheist. My pro-life beliefs aren't even
extreme. I do not have the exact same
beliefs as my parents. My parents views
even differ from each other. Sometimes we
even get in debates. It would be pretty
darn boring if we all believed the same
thing.[/quote]
I think it is entirely possible, and not
at all unlikely, for children to end up
with different belief systems from their
parents. What I am suggesting, though, is
that most parents do try to pass on their
beliefs to their children, for the simple
reason that they believe they are right.
The concept of "pro-life" (by which I mean
"opposed to the legal availability of
abortion for most reasons"), is generally
taken to mean that someone believes
abortion is wrong for most, if not all,
reasons. Are you saying that you would not
try to raise your children to believe that
abortion is wrong for most, if not all,
reasons? Being "pro-life" also suggests
that you would like to see abortion made
illegal for most, if not all, reasons. If
that were to succeed, you would be happy
for your children to become pro-choice
activists, looking to overturn any such
law?
