No, you misunderstand what I meant. You
are complaining about something you have
no control over in general on this forum
(abortion) which I found ironic since
that's what you were giving the poster
crud over.
|
jujujellybean
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 133 Location: , US
Thanks: 0
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-05-08 22:24pm
ok sorry I am a little slow but I think I
finally figured it out lol....
the point is, ABORTION KILLS A CHILD and
so I am trying to give the poor things
some rights so that they aren't sucked out
of their mom's stomachs because they
aren't wanted or came at an inconvenient
time. That is different than being mad
about what I am saying.
|
aochriss
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 30 Apr 2008 Posts: 367
Thanks: 58
Thanked:103
Posted: 05-06-08 14:03pm
jujujellybean
wrote:
ok sorry I am a little slow
but I think I finally figured it out
lol....
the point is, ABORTION KILLS A CHILD and
so I am trying to give the poor things
some rights so that they aren't sucked out
of their mom's stomachs because they
aren't wanted or came at an inconvenient
time. That is different than being mad
about what I am
saying.
In your opinion, abortion kills a child.
In my opinion, abortion kills a sac of
cells and tissues. There is no RIGHT
answer, there is no black and white
answer.
|
oopoopoop
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 1205 Location: ,
Thanks: 34
Thanked:2
Posted: 05-06-08 15:09pm
jujujellybean
wrote:
ok sorry I am a little slow
but I think I finally figured it out
lol....
the point is, ABORTION KILLS A CHILD and
so I am trying to give the poor things
some rights so that they aren't sucked out
of their mom's stomachs because they
aren't wanted or came at an inconvenient
time. That is different than being mad
about what I am
saying.
Uh oh. Back to class, dear. Stomach???
What are they teaching these children in
sex ed class? If the child is in someone's
stomach, it's too late. They've already
eaten it.
ok sorry I am a little slow
but I think I finally figured it out
lol....
the point is, ABORTION KILLS A CHILD and
so I am trying to give the poor things
some rights so that they aren't sucked out
of their mom's stomachs because they
aren't wanted or came at an inconvenient
time. That is different than being mad
about what I am
saying.
In your opinion, abortion kills a child.
In my opinion, abortion kills a sac of
cells and tissues. There is no RIGHT
answer, there is no black and white
answer.
uhhhh....hmmmm.....yes there is! how many
times do I have to explain this....why do
pro choicers feel the need to deny
science? Oh right....because they want
women the right to kill their child.
We are ALL sacs of cells and tissues. Just
because the one in the womb is less
developed does not mean anything; it is a
human, it is a baby because SCIENCE says
so(I mean the abortionists admit it, why
can't you?)
Here are some interesting quotes from
abortionists:
"They [the women] are never allowed to
look at the ultrasound because we knew
that if they so much as heard the heart
beat, they wouldn't want to have an
abortion."
Dr.Randall, abortion physician
"I have the utmost respect for life; I
appreciate that life starts early in the
womb, but also believe that I'm ending it
for good reasons.... So yes, I end life,
but even when it's hard, it's for a good
reason."
Boston Abortion Doctor
"If I see a case...after twenty weeks,
where it frankly is a child to me, I
really agonize over it because the
potential is so imminently there...On the
other hand, I have another position, which
I think is superior in the hierarchy of
questions, and that is "who owns this
child?" It's got to be the mother."
The late Dr.James MacMahon, who performed
D&X (also known as Partial Birth)
abortions
"I dare say any thinking sensitive
individual can't not realize that he is
ending life or potential life."
Abortionist Dr.Charles Bender
"A lot of people say they're killing their
baby. You get a lot of that. Some people
afterwards get very upset and say 'I
killed my baby.' Or even before, they say
'My circumstances are such that I can't
keep it, but I'm killing my baby.' They
wouldn't rather have the baby, and give it
up for adoption either. If you go into
that with them they will say that they
could never do that...and yet they still
consider it killing the baby...well, they
are killing a baby. I mean, they are
killing something that would develop into
maturity..."
Clinic Worker Dora Greenwald
"When you do a D & C most of the
tissue is removed by the Olden forceps or
ring clamp and you actually get gross
parts of the fetus out. So you can see a
miniature person so to speak, and even now
I occasionally feel a little peculiar
about it because as a physician I'm
trained to conserve life and here I am
destroying life."
Dr.Benjamin Kalish, abortionist
"In the beginning I was mixed up because I
was taught by the Hippocratic Oath not to
take a life."
Abortionist Michael Christie
"It [abortion] goes against all things
which are natural. It's a termination of a
life, however you look at it."
Abortionist Robert Harris
"[The author] said "Is this a fair way of
expressing what you have just said,
Doctor? You tell the mother "because your
baby is defective, you have the right to
kill it or not to kill it. If you choose
to kill it, I will do the killing." "Of
course," he [the abortionist] said. "There
is no other way to say it and be honest."
Conversation with an abortion doctor
"I have angry feelings at myself for
feeling good about grasping the calvaria
[head], for feeling good about doing a
technically good procedure that destroys a
fetus, kills a baby."
Anonymous abortionist
"It [abortion] is a form of killing.
You're ending a life."
Abortion Advocate and President of the
National Coalition of Abortion Providers,
Ron Fitzsimmons
"Nobody wants to perform abortions after
ten weeks because by then you see the
features of the baby, hands, feet. It's
really barbaric. Abortions are very
draining, exhausting, and heartrending.
There are a lot of tears. Sometimes
patients turn on you. They say, "Let's get
out of here," after the abortion, as if
you're some dirty person. It's vicious.
Then you get these teenyboppers in the
office who laugh their way through it. It
doesn't mean a thing to them. That bothers
me...I do them because I take the attitude
that women are going to terminate babies
and deserve the same kind of treatment as
women who carry babies...I've done a
couple thousand, and it turned into a
significant financial boon, but I also
feel I've provided an important service.
The only way I can do an abortion is to
consider only the woman as my patient and
block out the baby..."
Unnamed abortionist
"I have never denied that human life
begins at conception. If I have a
complaint about our society, it's that we
don't deal with death and dying. Do we
believe human beings have a right to make
decisions about death and dying? Yes we
do, and those decisions are made every day
in every hospital."
Clinic Counselor Tim Shuck
"Abortion is killing the fetus....Human
life, in and of itself, is not sacred.
Human life, per se, is not inviolate."
Abortionist "Dr.Smith" (Pseudonym)
"No one, neither the patient receiving the
abortion, nor the person doing the
abortion, is ever, at any time, unaware
that they are ending a life..."
Abortion provider William F Harrison, MD
"Women are not stupid ... women have
always known that there was a life
there."
Faye Wattleton, then President of Planned
Parenthood
"It's a really interesting thing that is
happening. It's fascinating, when you can
think about it clinically and not get
involved in the babies, or the people..."
Clinic Worker Dora Greenwald
"We know that it is killing, but the
states permit killing under certain
circumstances."
Dr.Neville Sender, founder of Metropolitan
Medical Service, an abortion clinic in
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Dr.Magda Denes, who spent two years
interviewing abortionists for her book In
Necessity and Sorrow: Life and Death
Inside an Abortion Hospital, told a
newspaper the following:
"There wasn't a doctor, who at one time or
another in the questioning did not say,
"This is homicide."
"I am destroying a life."
Dr.Harrison, who has terminated more than
20,000 pregnancies
[Abortion is] "destruction of life."
Dr.William Rashbaum, abortionist and chief
of Family Planning Services at Beth Israel
Medical Center
After talking extensively to one
abortionist, author Nancy Dey writes:
"Dr. Ed Jones (pseudonym) says its always
in the back of his mind that he is
terminating a life."
Abortionist Dr.Susan Poppema on
partial-birth abortion:
"They're saying, ..Oh, we think it's a
horrible idea to kill little babies about
to be born.' Well, I'm not going to say I
think it's a good idea either.
Dr.Poppema supports keeping partial birth
abortion legal
Abortionist Don Sloan, explaining the
morality of abortion to his teenage
niece:
"Is abortion homicide? All killing isn't
homicide. A cop shoots a teenager who
"appeared to be going for a gun," and we
call it justifiable homicide - a tragedy
for all concerned, but not homicide....And
then there's war..."
"And then to see, to be with somebody
while they're having the injection when
they're twenty or twenty-four weeks, and
you see the baby moving around, kicking
around, as this needle goes into the
stomach, you know."
Clinic worker Susan Lindstrom, M.S.W.
" It [the fetus] is a form of life...This
has to be killing...The question then
becomes, 'Is this kind of killing
justifiable?' In my own mind, it is
justifiable, but only with the informed
consent of the mother."
Abortion Doctor (name withheld)
"It is when I am holding a plastic uterus
in one hand, a suction tube in the other,
moving them together in imitation of the
scrubbing to come, that woman ask the most
secret question. I am speaking in a
matter-of-fact voice about 'the tissue'
and 'the contents' when the woman suddenly
catches my eye and says 'How big is the
baby now?' These words suggest a quiet
need for definition of the boundaries
being drawn. It isn't so odd, after all,
that she feels relief when I describe the
growing buds bulbous shape, its miniature
nature. Again, I gauge, and sometimes lie
a little, weaseling around its infantile
features until its clinging power
slackens."
--abortion worker Sallie Tisdale "We Do
Abortions Here" Oct 1987 Harpers Magazine
p 68
"Sonography in connection with induced
abortion may have psychological hazards.
Seeing a blown-up, moving image of the
embryo she is carrying can be distressing
to a woman who is about to undergo an
abortion, Dr. Sally Faith Dorfman noted.
She stressed that the screen should be
turned away from the patient."
--"Obstetrics and Gynecology News"
editorial February 15-28, 1986
"In my facilities, I always gave option
counseling. Of course you make the
abortion the most appealing. I told them
about adoption and about foster care and
about [when there was welfare] assistance.
The typical way it would go is, "Well, you
know you can place your baby out for
adoption." But then, in the second breath
you would say, "That's an option available
to you, but you also have to realize that
there's going to be a baby of yours out
here somewhere in the world you will never
see again. At least with abortion you know
what's happening. You can go on with your
life...The longer I was in it, the less I
cared, so I really didn't really care what
my conscience said. My conscience was
totally numb anyway. But what it did do
was public relations-wise. You were able,
when a reporter or TV crew came, to pull
out a packet of information for the
patients to read and they received it. So
what can anybody say? Publicly it looked
good -- in reality it was another tool
that was used to force a woman into
abortion. It's typical -- I would give
them an option and then shoot it down. The
only option you didn't shoot down,
obviously, was abortion."
--Former clinic owner Eric Harrah quoted
by Dr.
Jack Willke and Brad Mattes
"I was trained by a professional marketing
director in how to sell abortions over the
telephone. He took every one of our
receptionists, nurses, and anyone else who
would deal with people over the phone
through an extensive training period. The
object was, when the girl called, to hook
the sale so that she wouldn't get an
abortion somewhere else, or adopt out her
baby, or change her mind. We were doing it
for the money."
--Nina Whitten, chief secretary at a
Dallas abortion clinic under Dr.Curtis
Boyd
"They [the women] are never allowed to
look at the ultrasound because we knew
that if they so much as heard the heart
beat, they wouldn't want to have an
abortion."
-Dr.Randall
'Pro-Choice 1990: Skeletons in the Closet"
by David Kuperlain and Mark Masters in Oct
"New Dimensions" magazine
"Every woman has these same two questions:
First, "Is it a baby?" "No" the counselor
assures her. "It is a product of
conception (or a blood clot, or a piece of
tissue). . .
"How many women would have an abortion, if
they told them the truth?"
--Carol Everett, former owner of two
clinics and director of four "A Walk
Through an Abortion Clinic" by Carol
Everett ALL About Issues magazine Aug-Sept
1991, p 117
"If a woman we were counseling expressed
doubts about having an abortion, we would
say whatever was necessary to persuade her
to abort immediately."
--Judy W., former office manager of the
second largest abortion clinic in El Paso,
Texas
"We tried to avoid the women seeing them
[the fetuses] They always wanted to know
the sex, but we lied and said it was too
early to tell. It's better for the women
to think of the fetus as an 'it'."
--Abortion clinic worker Norma Eidelman
quoted in Rachel Weeping p 34
"The counselor at our clinic would cry
with the girls at the drop of a hat. She
would find their weakness and work on it.
The women were never given any
alternatives. They were told how much
trouble it is to have a baby."
--former abortion worker Debra Harry,
quoted in the film "Meet the Abortion
Providers" 1989
"When discussing the sonogram, you are
supposed to tell the client that it is a
measurement as far as the pregnancy is
concerned, but not a measure of the fetal
head or anything like that."
--Rosemary Petruso, on her training to be
an abortion counselor. Her story appeared
in the St. Louis Review and was also
quoted in "Women Exploited: The Other
Victims of Abortion" Paula Ervin, editor.
Huntington: Our Sunday Visitor, 1985
"Sometimes we lied. A girl might ask what
her baby was like at a certain point in
the pregnancy: Was it a baby yet? Even as
early as 12 weeks a baby is totally
formed, he has fingerprints, turns his
head, fans his toes, feels pain. But we
would say 'It's not a baby yet. It's just
tissue, like a clot.'"
--Kathy Sparks told in "The Conversion of
Kathy Sparks" by Gloria Williamson,
Christian Herald Jan 1986 p 28
"When I first started working there [at
the clinic], I had to sit and listen to
women answering the phone for at least a
month before they would allow me to answer
the phone. We had to know exactly what we
were doing when we were talking to these
women. We had to find out very quickly
what their problem was, play on that and
get them in the clinic for an abortion. We
were very good salespeople."
-Joy Davis
"In fact many women will come to me
considering abortion, and I have been
personally told that I am to turn the
monitor away from her view so that seeing
her baby jump around on the screen does
not influence her choice."
Shari Richards, quoted from the John
Ankerburg Show on 3/7/90
"When a girl called to make her
appointment, we'd work her in as soon as
possible. If she called on Tuesday, we'd
have her in no later than Friday. We
wanted to avoid a long waiting period
where she'd have time to think about it.
First she would fill out her forms, and
then talk with a counselor. . . The
counselors were trained in what areas to
cover and which to avoid. They'd say, "I
know this is a terrible situation you're
in. What can we do to help make this
better for you? Yeah, it doesn't sound
like you're ready for a pregnancy right
now." Their task was to keep the machinery
moving - to get the woman into the
procedure room as quickly as possible."
---clinic worker, name withheld
"There was a public health center in a
town not far from Denver and they sent a
lot of girls to us. They told us they did
all the counseling. We weren't allowed to
counsel them or even ask them about birth
control. We couldn't even tell them what
could happen during the abortion. Nothing.
If we tried to discuss alternatives, we
would get in trouble with the doctor
because then the health center would
threaten to send their business elsewhere.
All we did was find out how far along they
were, tell them when they were going to be
finished, get their money, do the
abortion, and send them home."
--Registered nurse Sam Griggs
From "Abortion Clinics: An Inside Look"
published by Last Days Ministries.
"I have seen hundreds of patients in my
office who have had abortions and were
just lied to by the abortion counselor.
Namely 'This is less painful than having a
tooth removed. It is not a baby.'
Afterwards, the woman sees Life magazine
and breaks down and goes into a major
depression."
--Psychologist Vincent Rue quoted in
"Abortion Inc" David Kupelian and Jo Ann
Gasper, New Dimensions, October 1991 p 16
"But when I look in the basin, among the
curdlike blood clots, I see and elfin
thorax, attentuated, its pencilline ribs
all in parallel rows with tiny knobs of
spine rounding upwards. A translucent arm
and hand swim beside."
--Sallie Tisdale "We Do Abortions Here"
"I can remember...the resident doctor
sitting down, putting the tube in, and
removing the contents. I saw the bloody
material coming down the plastic tube, and
it went into a big jar. My job afterwards
was to go and undo the jar, and to see
what was inside. I didn't have any views
on abortion; I was in a training program,
and this was a brand new experience. I was
going to get to see a new procedure and
learn. I opened the jar and took the
little piece of stockingnette stocking and
opened the little bag. The resident doctor
said "Now put it on the blue towel and
check it out. We want to see if we got it
all.' I thought, "that'll be
exciting-hands on experience looking at
tissue.' I opened the sock up and put it
on the towel, and there were parts of a
person in there. I had taken anatomy, I
was a medical student. I knew what I was
looking at. There was a little scapula and
an arm, I saw some ribs and a chest, and a
little tiny head. I saw a piece of a leg,
and a tiny hand and an arm, and you know,
it was like somebody put a hot poker into
me. I had a conscience, and it hurt. Well,
I checked it out and there were two arms
and two legs and one head and so forth,
and I turned and said "I guess you got it
all.' That was a very hard experience to
go through emotionally.
--Former abortionist
"Saline abortions have to be done in the
hospital because of the complications that
can arise. Not that they can't arise
during other times, but more so now. The
saline, a salt solution, is injected into
the woman's sac, and the baby starts dying
a slow, violent death. The mother feels
everything, and many times it is at this
point when she realizes that she really
has a live baby inside her, because the
baby starts fighting violently, for his or
her life. He's just fighting inside
because he's burning."
--Debra Harry
"One night a lady delivered and I was
called to come and see her because she was
'uncontrollable.' I went into the room,
and she was going to pieces; she was
having a nervous breakdown, screaming and
thrashing. The other patients were upset
because this lady was screaming. I walked
in, and here was this little saline
abortion baby kicking. It had been born
alive, and was kicking and moving for a
little while before it finally died of
those terrible burns, because the salt
solution gets into the lungs and burns the
lungs too. I'll tell you one thing about
D& E . You never have to worry about a
baby's being born alive. I won't describe
D & E , other than to say that, as a
doctor, you are sitting there tearing, and
I mean tearing- you need a lot of strength
to do it- arms and legs off of babies and
putting them in a stack on top of the
table."
--Dr. David Brewer of Glen Ellyn Illinois
"I remember an experience as a resident on
a hysterotomy. I remember seeing the baby
move underneath the sack of membranes, as
the cesarean incision was made, before the
doctor broke the water. The thought came
to me, "My God, that's a person" Then he
broke the water. And when he broke the
water, it was like I had a pain in my
heart, just like when I saw that first
suction abortion. And t hen he delivered
the baby,. and I couldn't touch it.. I
wasn't much of an assistant. I just stood
there, and the reality of what was doing
on finally began to seep into my calloused
brain and heart. They took that little
baby that was making little sounds and
moving and kicking, and set it on that
table in a cold, stainless steel bowl.
Every time I would look over while we were
repairing the incision in uterus and
finishing the Caesarean, I would see that
little person moving in that bowl. And it
kicked and moved less and less, of course,
as time went on. I can remember going over
and looking at the baby when we were done
with the surgery and the baby was still
alive. You could see the chest was moving
and the heart was beating, and the baby
would try to take a little breath, and it
really hurt inside, and it began to
educate me as to what abortion really
was."
quoted in "Pro-Choice 1990: Skeletons in
the Closet"
"Following [the doctor's] directions, I
took the collection bottle and poured its
contents into a shallow pan. Then I used
water to rinse off the blood and smaller
particles which clouded the bottom of the
pan. 'Now look closely,' the doctor said.
'It is important that we have got all the
stuff out.' I looked in the pan to find
that the stuff consisted of the remains of
what had been, a few minutes before, a
thirteen week old fetus. I could make out
the remains of arms and legs and a trunk
and a skull. I tried to piece them back
together in my mind, to see if there were
any missing parts. Most of the pieces were
so battered and bloody they were not
recognizably human. Then my eyes locked
upon a perfect little hand, less than half
a centimeter long. I stared at four tiny
fingers and a tiny opposed thumb, complete
with tiny translucent fingers. And I knew
what I had done."
--former abortionist "Chi An" quoted in
Stephen Mosher's "A Mother's Ordeal: One
Woman's
Fight Against China's One Child Policy"
pgs 60-61
"I got to where I couldn't stand to look
at the little bodies anymore"
--Dr. Beverly McMillan, when asked why she
stopped performing abortions.
"I have been there, and I have seen these
totally formed babies as early as ten
weeks... with the leg missing, or with
their head off. I have seen the little rib
cages..."
--Debra Harry
"We all wish it were formless, but its
not...and its painful. There is a lot of
emotional pain."
--abortion clinic worker
Quoted in "The Ex Abortionists: They Have
Confronted Reality" Washington Post April
1, 1988 pg 21
"You have to become a bit schizophrenic.
In one room, you encourage the patient
that the slight irregularity in the fetal
heart is not important, that she is going
to have a fine, healthy baby. Then, in the
next room you assure another woman, on
whom you just did a saline abortion, that
it is a good thing that the heartbeat is
already irregular....she has nothing to
worry about, she will NOT have a live
baby...All of a sudden one noticed that at
the time of the saline infusion there was
a lot of activity in the uterus. That's
not fluid currents. That's obviously the
fetus being distressed by swallowing the
concentrated salt solution and kicking
violently and that's to all intents and
purposes, the death trauma. ..somebody has
to do it, and unfortunately we are the
executioners in this instance..."
--abortionist Dr. Szenes
"And then to see, to be with somebody
while they're having the injection when
they're twenty or twenty-four weeks, and
you see the baby moving around, kicking
around, as this needle goes into the
stomach, you know."
--Susan Lindstrom, M.S.W.
"I look inside the bucket in front of me.
There is a small naked person in there,
floating in a bloody liquid- plainly the
tragic victim of a drowning accident. But
hen perhaps this was no accident, because
the body is purple with bruises and the
face has the agonized tauntness of one
forced to die too soon. I have seen this
face before, on a Russian soldier lying on
a frozen snow-covered hill, stiff with
death, and cold."
--Pro-choice doctor and author Magda
Denes
"Performing Abortions" by Magda Denes,
M.D. "Commentary" Oct.26 1976 p 35-37
Also quoted Magda Denes, "[the doctor]
pulls out something, which he slaps on the
instrument table. "there," he says, "A
leg." . . . I turn to Mr. Smith. . . He
points to the instrument table, where
there is a perfectly formed, slightly bent
leg, about three inches long. . . "There,
I've got the head out now." ...There lies
a head. It is the smallest human head I
have ever seen, but it is unmistakably
part of a person."
"If I see a case...after twenty weeks,
where it frankly is a child to me, I
really agonize over it because the
potential is so imminently there...On the
other hand, I have another position, which
I think is superior in the hierarchy of
questions, and that is "who owns this
child?" It's got to be the mother."
--Dr. James MacMahon, who performs D &
X abortions, in Nat Hentoff "It's Just Too
Late: Third Trimester abortions are an
Outrage and an Insult to the Human Race"
July 27, 1993 Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Describing an abortion that apparently did
not prevent the child from being born
alive, Dr. Haskell said this, "It came out
very quickly after I put the scissors up
in the cervical canal and pierced the
skull and spread the scissors apart...in
the previous two, I had used the suction
to collapse the skull."
--Dayton Daily News Sun Dec 10 1989
"The first time, I felt like a murderer,
but I did it again and again and again,
and now, 20 years later, I am facing what
happened to me as a doctor and as a human
being. Sure, I got hard. Sure, the money
was important. And oh, it was an easy
thing, once I had taken the step, to see
the women as animals and the babies as
just tissue."
--abortionist quoted from a radio talk
show by John Rice in "Abortion" Litt D.
Murfreesboro, TN.
"I have never known a woman who, after her
baby was born, was not overjoyed that I
had not killed it."
--Abortionist Aleck Bourne "A Doctor
Speaks" London Express, Jan 25
"We know that its killing, but the state
permits killing under certain
circumstances"
--Dr. Neville Sender, abortionist
"Even now I feel a little peculiar about
it, because as a physician I was trained
to conserve life, and here I am destroying
it."
--abortionist
"There was not one [doctor] who at some
point in the questioning did not say "This
is homicide."
--Magda Denes on her two years of research
done for her book In Necessity and Sorrow;
Life and Death Inside an Abortion Clinic.
"I do think abortion is homicide- of a
very special and necessary sort. And no
physician ever involved with the procedure
ever kids himself about that."
"You know there is something in there
alive that you are killing"
--another abortionist interviewed by
Denes
"Clinic workers may say they support a
woman's right to choose, but they will
also say that they do not want to see tiny
hands and tiny feet....there is a great
difference between the intellectual
support of a woman's right to choose and
the actual participation in the carnage of
abortion. Because seeing body parts
bothers the workers."
--Judith Fetrow, former clinic worker from
San Francisco quoted in "Meet the
Abortion
Providers III" from a taped conference in
Chicago 4/3/93
"..the emotional turmoil that the
procedure inevitably wreaks on the
physicians and staff...There is no
possibility of denial of an act of
destruction by the operator...the
sensations of dismemberment flow through
the forceps like an electric current."
--Abortionist quoted in "Meeting of
American Association of Planned Parenthood
Physicians" OBGYN News P 196
Quoted in Melody Green and Sharon Bennett
"The Crime of Being Alive: Abortion,
Euthanasia, Infanticide" p 3
"Remember, there is a human being at the
other end of the table taking that kid
apart. We've had a couple of guys drinking
too much, taking drugs, even a suicide or
two."
--Dr. Julius Butler, a professor of
obstetrics and gynecology at the
University of Minnesota Medical School
"Arms, legs, and chests come out of the
forceps. It's not a sight for everybody"
--Dr. William Benbow Thompson at the
University of California at Irvine
"Abortion Practice" by Warren Hern, M.D.,
Boulder Colorado Abortionist published in
1984 by the J.B. Lippenott Company.
Hern performs abortions up until the 4th
month of pregnancy
"The procedure changes significantly at 21
weeks because fetal tissues become much
more cohesive and difficult to dismember"
p 154
"A long curved Mayo scissors may be
necessary to decapitate and dismember the
fetus." - p 154
"The aggregate fetal tissue is weighted,
then the following fetal parts are
measured, foot length, knee to heel
length, and biparietal diameter" p 164
"Television interviews in particular
should focus on the public issue involved
(right to confidential and professional
medical care, freedom of choice and so
forth) and not on the specific details of
the procedure." p 323
"Nobody wants to perform abortions after
ten weeks, because by then you see the
features of the baby, hands, feet. It's
really barbaric."
--abortionist quoted in M.D. Doctors Talk
About Themselves by John Pekkanen p 93
"I was for abortion, I thought it was a
woman's right to terminate pregnancy she
did not want. Now I'm not so sure. I am a
student nurse nearing the end of my OB-GYN
rotation at a major metropolitan hospital
and teaching center. It wasn't until I saw
what abortion really involves that I
changed my mind. After the first week in
the abortion clinic several people in my
clinical group were shaky about their
previously positive feelings about
abortion. This new attitude resulted from
our actually seeing a Prostaglandin
abortion, one similar in nature to the
widely used saline abortion. . . this
method is being used for terminations of
pregnancies of sixteen weeks and over. I
used to find rationales. the fetus isn't
real. Abdomens aren't really very swollen.
It isn't 'alive.' No more excuses...I am a
member of the health profession and
members of my class are now ambivalent
about abortion. I now know a great deal
more about what is involved in the issue.
Women should perceive fully what abortion
is; how destructive an act it is both for
themselves and their unborn child.
Whatever psychological coping mechanisms
are employed during the process, the sight
of a fetus in a hospital bedpan remains
the final statement."
Quoted in "The Zero People: Essays on
Life" by Jeff Lane Hensley, editor. Ann
Arbor: Servant Books, 1983
"I found much distress in the clinic, but
it involved not only the women. I saw the
pain of the babies who were born burned
from the saline solution used for
late-term abortions. I saw the bits of
feet, bits of hands, the mangled heads and
bodies of the little people. I saw pain
and felt pain."
--One time clinic worker Paula Sutcliffe
in "Precious in My Sight" "Pro-Life
Feminism: Different Voices" Gail
Garnier-Sweet, editor
From "Rachel Weeping"
"The doctors would remove the fetus while
performing hysterotomies and then lay it
on the table., where it would squirm until
it died. ..They all had perfect forms and
shapes. I couldn't take it. No nurse
could."
--Joyce Craig, director of a Brooklyn
clinic of Planned Parenthood. who assisted
in abortion for two months, then quit.
Edward Eichner, director of medicine at a
Cleveland abortion facility said "No
doctor, for ethical, moral or honest
reasons wants to do nothing but
abortions...women don't like to do
abortions over and over for moral reasons.
Sometimes our women doctors become
pregnant themselves, which upsets the
patients. At the same time, if a woman is
carrying a baby, she doesn't like to abort
someone else's. We have much more trouble
keeping women doctors on the staff than
men." --p 49
"After an abortion, the doctor must
inspect these remains to make sure that
all the fetal parts and placenta have been
removed. Any tissue left inside the uterus
can start an infection. Dr. Bours squeezed
the contents of the sock into a shallow
dish and poked around with his finger.
"You can see a teeny tiny hand' he said."
--abortion clinic worker quoted in "Is the
Fetus Human?" and in Dudley Clendinen,
"The Abortion Conflict: What it Does to
One Doctor" New York Times Magazine Aug 11
1985 p 26
see? the abortionists know. why is it so
hard for you to understand?
|
oopoopoop
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 1205 Location: ,
Thanks: 34
Thanked:2
Posted: 05-07-08 09:35am
Wow - it all sounds really gross. Kind of
like gutting chickens all day would be
gross.
|
aochriss
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 30 Apr 2008 Posts: 367
Thanks: 58
Thanked:103
Posted: 05-07-08 09:50am
jujujellybean
wrote:
aochriss
wrote:
jujujellybean
wrote:
ok sorry I am a little slow
but I think I finally figured it out
lol....
the point is, ABORTION KILLS A CHILD and
so I am trying to give the poor things
some rights so that they aren't sucked out
of their mom's stomachs because they
aren't wanted or came at an inconvenient
time. That is different than being mad
about what I am
saying.
In your opinion, abortion kills a child.
In my opinion, abortion kills a sac of
cells and tissues. There is no RIGHT
answer, there is no black and white
answer.
uhhhh....hmmmm.....yes there is! how many
times do I have to explain this....why do
pro choicers feel the need to deny
science? Oh right....because they want
women the right to kill their child.
We are ALL sacs of cells and tissues. Just
because the one in the womb is less
developed does not mean anything; it is a
human, it is a baby because SCIENCE says
so(I mean the abortionists admit it, why
can't you
see? the abortionists know. why is it so
hard for you to
understand?
I have already shown you that that
"science" does not agree with you. I will
repost it for you:
aochriss
wrote:
You are more than welcome to
call it anything you want. Definitions
are all man made., anyway, so all of this
is arbitrary. Currently, the definitions
of both human being and person are born
entities, not unborn. Even the scientific
designation of Homo Sapien is of a born
entity, not an unborn. However,
scientific classification is also
man-made.
One reason a fertilized egg is not
considered a human being, or more
accurately a Homo Sapien, is that a
fertilized egg, or zygote, is a single
cell. Humans are not single celled
animals, we are multi celled animals. A
single cell could not even meet the
definition of a mammal, which human beings
of course are.
Please read the following communication
with a biologist for more information:
Expert: Dana Krempels, Ph.D.
Date: 7/31/2007
Subject: Classification of Homo Sapien
cells as HS themselves
Question
QUESTION: Hi,
I'm doing research on biological identity
and wanted to clarify whether different
humans cells can be considered Homo
sapiens themselves? To me Homo Sapeins is
a colonial organism with a life cycle that
includes a single cell stage. Therefore
only the zygote and the colonial stages
are Homo sapiens, while individual cells
sex, skin and blood cells etc aren’t
Homo Sapiens.
It would be helpful if phenotypes
regarding Homo Sapiens was also cleared
up.
I’ve also had it put that cells
themselves are considered just another
phenotype of Homo Sapiens, so just as
gender or a human with blonde hair are
phenotypes so are zygotes or sex cells
phenotypes of Homo sapiens. To me this
doesn’t make sense, there may be
phenotypes of types of cells but to
conflate that with phenotypes of Homo
sapiens runs into the same problem as
above.
Can you help clear this up?
ANSWER: Dear Simon,
I don't know any biologist who would
classify a single cell from a Homo sapiens
as a Homo sapiens. Even a zygote, which
may have the *potential* to become a Homo
sapiens, but is not an organism by any
stretch of the imagination, is not
considered an individual Homo sapiens by
any members of the scientific community
that I know.
A colonial organism is defined as one
being composed of loosely organized cells,
sometimes with a division of labor. In
many truly colonial organisms (e.g.,
Volvox; some would include sponges), the
cells can survive on their own, when taken
out of the colony, and even undergo
mitosis to produce a new colony (without
the help of cloning technology). So in
the strictest, biological sense, no
eumetazoan (including a human) is a
colonial organism.
An organism that exhibits *true
multicellularity* (as opposed to being
colonial) is defined as one composed of
various types of cells that are
coordinated to perform particular
functions by organizing into organs and
organ systems. The individual cells
cannot survive for long outside the whole
organism.
I do not believe the scientific community
in general considers a zygote, blastula or
gastrula containing the human genome to be
a Homo sapiens. To a biologist, those
cells or conglomerations of cells have
only the *potential* to become human.
This may be a matter of debate in social
and political circles, but not in serious
scientific ones.
For my own interest, when you say, "If we
do for them it calls into question some
current thinking on biological
classification of zygotes etc."
...are you aware of any biological
classification of zygotes? I've actually
not heard of anyone even discussing
whether a zygote is an individual organism
or not--with the notable exception of Homo
sapiens zygotes when it come to arguments
about abortion rights.
But no other species I know of is
considered an individual organism at the
zygote stage, which makes me wonder why
Homo sapiens should be considered any
different from them. We differ from other
species only in degree, and not in kind.
uhhhh....hmmmm.....yes there is! how many
times do I have to explain this....why do
pro choicers feel the need to deny
science? Oh right....because they want
women the right to kill their child.
We are ALL sacs of cells and tissues. Just
because the one in the womb is less
developed does not mean anything; it is a
human, it is a baby because SCIENCE says
so(I mean the abortionists admit it, why
can't you?)
Here are some interesting quotes from
abortionists:
"They [the women] are never allowed to
look at the ultrasound because we knew
that if they so much as heard the heart
beat, they wouldn't want to have an
abortion."
Dr.Randall, abortion physician
Really? This guy
ought to get out of the abortion business
and into fortune telling.
"I have the utmost respect for life; I
appreciate that life starts early in the
womb, but also believe that I'm ending it
for good reasons.... So yes, I end life,
but even when it's hard, it's for a good
reason."
Boston Abortion Doctor Doo dee doo...
"I dare say any thinking sensitive
individual can't not realize that he is
ending life or potential life."
Abortionist Dr.Charles Bender Yes. Abortion ends a
life. Who denies that?
"I have never denied that human life
begins at conception. If I have a
complaint about our society, it's that we
don't deal with death and dying. Do we
believe human beings have a right to make
decisions about death and dying? Yes we
do, and those decisions are made every day
in every hospital."
Clinic Counselor Tim Shuck Huh. Someone thinks
people have a right to make these
decisions. Smart guy.
"Abortion is killing the fetus....Human
life, in and of itself, is not sacred.
Human life, per se, is not inviolate."
Abortionist "Dr.Smith" (Pseudonym) True, true,
true.
"No one, neither the patient receiving the
abortion, nor the person doing the
abortion, is ever, at any time, unaware
that they are ending a life..."
Abortion provider William F Harrison, MD
If they are
unaware, then they are in an altered state
and shouldn't be doing surgery.
"Women are not stupid ... women have
always known that there was a life
there."
Faye Wattleton, then President of Planned
Parenthood [quote=red]Yup. Women aren't
stupid; they know exactly why they seek
out abortions.[/color]
" It [the fetus] is a form of life...This
has to be killing...The question then
becomes, 'Is this kind of killing
justifiable?' In my own mind, it is
justifiable, but only with the informed
consent of the mother."
Abortion Doctor (name withheld) Yes.
"How many women would have an abortion, if
they told them the truth?"
--Carol Everett, former owner of two
clinics and director of four "A Walk
Through an Abortion Clinic" by Carol
Everett ALL About Issues magazine Aug-Sept
1991, p 117 The
truth? That you're pregnant and could end
up with a baby in arms? Who doesn't know
that? That's why women obtain abortions.
They don't want that reality.
...
see? the abortionists know. why is it so
hard for you to
understand?
Did you actually read some of these quotes
before posting them?
|
cmyked
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 294
Thanks: 50
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-07-08 12:00pm
It doesn't matter if you call it a baby, a
child, cells, or a fetus. It is what it
IS, so why can't we all just call it
"embryo", "fetus" or "unborn [whatever]"?
Baby is technically a correct term. Child
is technically a correct term. You can
whine that you don't like those words, but
complaining doesn't change their meaning.
You cannot say "no, it is not a child"
because you're wrong. If even one
dictionary includes in the definition of
the word "baby" or "child" the concept of
"offspring", then baby and child are
accurate words for an unborn human. You
can go find another dictionary that
doesn't have that same definition, but the
point is that someone CAN.
What words should we be using? Again,
"embryo", "fetus", and "unborn
[whatever]".
|
oopoopoop
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 1205 Location: ,
Thanks: 34
Thanked:2
Posted: 05-07-08 12:13pm
cmyked
wrote:
It doesn't matter if you
call it a baby, a child, cells, or a
fetus. It is what it IS, so why can't we
all just call it "embryo", "fetus" or
"unborn [whatever]"? Baby is technically a
correct term. Child is technically a
correct term. You can whine that you don't
like those words, but complaining doesn't
change their meaning. You cannot say "no,
it is not a child" because you're wrong.
If even one dictionary includes in the
definition of the word "baby" or "child"
the concept of "offspring", then baby and
child are accurate words for an unborn
human. You can go find another dictionary
that doesn't have that same definition,
but the point is that someone CAN.
What words should we be using? Again,
"embryo", "fetus", and "unborn
[whatever]".
The problem is not that one word can
encompasss different meanings, it is that
some people take that to mean that two
things which are described by the same
word are therefore identical in essence.
Baby and child are actually less precise,
because they apply to so many things. It
is like saying "dog" when you can
differentiate between a dingo and a
poodle.
|
cmyked
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 294
Thanks: 50
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-07-08 12:19pm
They are indeed less precise, which is why
I prefer zef/unborn. However, despite
being less precise they are still correct.
|
oopoopoop
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 1205 Location: ,
Thanks: 34
Thanked:2
Posted: 05-07-08 13:04pm
cmyked
wrote:
They are indeed less
precise, which is why I prefer zef/unborn.
However, despite being less precise they
are still correct.
Yes, and we could just say "mammal" or
"single-headed biped" or "ape" -- those
would all be correct as well.
|
cmyked
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 294
Thanks: 50
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-07-08 14:03pm
oopoopoop
wrote:
cmyked
wrote:
They are indeed less
precise, which is why I prefer zef/unborn.
However, despite being less precise they
are still correct.
Yes, and we could just say "mammal" or
"single-headed biped" or "ape" -- those
would all be correct as
well.
Quite true. What, did you expect me to
deny this?
|
jujujellybean
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 133 Location: , US
Thanks: 0
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-07-08 20:42pm
oopoopoop
wrote:
Wow - it all sounds really
gross. Kind of like gutting chickens all
day would be gross.
exactly. It's sick. To do that for a
living you must be just plain crazy....
|
jujujellybean
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 133 Location: , US
Thanks: 0
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-07-08 20:53pm
Birch
wrote:
jujujellybean
wrote:
uhhhh....hmmmm.....yes there is! how many
times do I have to explain this....why do
pro choicers feel the need to deny
science? Oh right....because they want
women the right to kill their child.
We are ALL sacs of cells and tissues. Just
because the one in the womb is less
developed does not mean anything; it is a
human, it is a baby because SCIENCE says
so(I mean the abortionists admit it, why
can't you?)
Here are some interesting quotes from
abortionists:
"They [the women] are never allowed to
look at the ultrasound because we knew
that if they so much as heard the heart
beat, they wouldn't want to have an
abortion."
Dr.Randall, abortion physician
Really? This guy
ought to get out of the abortion business
and into fortune telling.
"I have the utmost respect for life; I
appreciate that life starts early in the
womb, but also believe that I'm ending it
for good reasons.... So yes, I end life,
but even when it's hard, it's for a good
reason."
Boston Abortion Doctor Doo dee doo...
"I dare say any thinking sensitive
individual can't not realize that he is
ending life or potential life."
Abortionist Dr.Charles Bender Yes. Abortion ends a
life. Who denies that?
"I have never denied that human life
begins at conception. If I have a
complaint about our society, it's that we
don't deal with death and dying. Do we
believe human beings have a right to make
decisions about death and dying? Yes we
do, and those decisions are made every day
in every hospital."
Clinic Counselor Tim Shuck Huh. Someone thinks
people have a right to make these
decisions. Smart guy.
"Abortion is killing the fetus....Human
life, in and of itself, is not sacred.
Human life, per se, is not inviolate."
Abortionist "Dr.Smith" (Pseudonym) True, true,
true.
"No one, neither the patient receiving the
abortion, nor the person doing the
abortion, is ever, at any time, unaware
that they are ending a life..."
Abortion provider William F Harrison, MD
If they are
unaware, then they are in an altered state
and shouldn't be doing surgery.
"Women are not stupid ... women have
always known that there was a life
there."
Faye Wattleton, then President of Planned
Parenthood [quote=red]Yup. Women aren't
stupid; they know exactly why they seek
out abortions.[/color]
" It [the fetus] is a form of life...This
has to be killing...The question then
becomes, 'Is this kind of killing
justifiable?' In my own mind, it is
justifiable, but only with the informed
consent of the mother."
Abortion Doctor (name withheld) Yes.
"How many women would have an abortion, if
they told them the truth?"
--Carol Everett, former owner of two
clinics and director of four "A Walk
Through an Abortion Clinic" by Carol
Everett ALL About Issues magazine Aug-Sept
1991, p 117 The
truth? That you're pregnant and could end
up with a baby in arms? Who doesn't know
that? That's why women obtain abortions.
They don't want that reality.
...
see? the abortionists know. why is it so
hard for you to
understand?
Did you actually read some of these quotes
before posting them?
No I just post them without reading em.
The point is, you deny its a baby when
abortionists who DO THE ABORTIONS know it
is. Why?
|
jujujellybean
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 133 Location: , US
Thanks: 0
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-07-08 21:04pm
aochriss
wrote:
jujujellybean
wrote:
aochriss
wrote:
jujujellybean
wrote:
ok sorry I am a little slow
but I think I finally figured it out
lol....
the point is, ABORTION KILLS A CHILD and
so I am trying to give the poor things
some rights so that they aren't sucked out
of their mom's stomachs because they
aren't wanted or came at an inconvenient
time. That is different than being mad
about what I am
saying.
In your opinion, abortion kills a child.
In my opinion, abortion kills a sac of
cells and tissues. There is no RIGHT
answer, there is no black and white
answer.
uhhhh....hmmmm.....yes there is! how many
times do I have to explain this....why do
pro choicers feel the need to deny
science? Oh right....because they want
women the right to kill their child.
We are ALL sacs of cells and tissues. Just
because the one in the womb is less
developed does not mean anything; it is a
human, it is a baby because SCIENCE says
so(I mean the abortionists admit it, why
can't you
see? the abortionists know. why is it so
hard for you to
understand?
I have already shown you that that
"science" does not agree with you. I will
repost it for you:
aochriss
wrote:
You are more than welcome to
call it anything you want. Definitions
are all man made., anyway, so all of this
is arbitrary. Currently, the definitions
of both human being and person are born
entities, not unborn. Even the scientific
designation of Homo Sapien is of a born
entity, not an unborn. However,
scientific classification is also
man-made.
One reason a fertilized egg is not
considered a human being, or more
accurately a Homo Sapien, is that a
fertilized egg, or zygote, is a single
cell. Humans are not single celled
animals, we are multi celled animals. A
single cell could not even meet the
definition of a mammal, which human beings
of course are.
Please read the following communication
with a biologist for more information:
Expert: Dana Krempels, Ph.D.
Date: 7/31/2007
Subject: Classification of Homo Sapien
cells as HS themselves
Question
QUESTION: Hi,
I'm doing research on biological identity
and wanted to clarify whether different
humans cells can be considered Homo
sapiens themselves? To me Homo Sapeins is
a colonial organism with a life cycle that
includes a single cell stage. Therefore
only the zygote and the colonial stages
are Homo sapiens, while individual cells
sex, skin and blood cells etc aren’t
Homo Sapiens.
It would be helpful if phenotypes
regarding Homo Sapiens was also cleared
up.
I’ve also had it put that cells
themselves are considered just another
phenotype of Homo Sapiens, so just as
gender or a human with blonde hair are
phenotypes so are zygotes or sex cells
phenotypes of Homo sapiens. To me this
doesn’t make sense, there may be
phenotypes of types of cells but to
conflate that with phenotypes of Homo
sapiens runs into the same problem as
above.
Can you help clear this up?
ANSWER: Dear Simon,
I don't know any biologist who would
classify a single cell from a Homo sapiens
as a Homo sapiens. Even a zygote, which
may have the *potential* to become a Homo
sapiens, but is not an organism by any
stretch of the imagination, is not
considered an individual Homo sapiens by
any members of the scientific community
that I know.
A colonial organism is defined as one
being composed of loosely organized cells,
sometimes with a division of labor. In
many truly colonial organisms (e.g.,
Volvox; some would include sponges), the
cells can survive on their own, when taken
out of the colony, and even undergo
mitosis to produce a new colony (without
the help of cloning technology). So in
the strictest, biological sense, no
eumetazoan (including a human) is a
colonial organism.
An organism that exhibits *true
multicellularity* (as opposed to being
colonial) is defined as one composed of
various types of cells that are
coordinated to perform particular
functions by organizing into organs and
organ systems. The individual cells
cannot survive for long outside the whole
organism.
I do not believe the scientific community
in general considers a zygote, blastula or
gastrula containing the human genome to be
a Homo sapiens. To a biologist, those
cells or conglomerations of cells have
only the *potential* to become human.
This may be a matter of debate in social
and political circles, but not in serious
scientific ones.
For my own interest, when you say, "If we
do for them it calls into question some
current thinking on biological
classification of zygotes etc."
...are you aware of any biological
classification of zygotes? I've actually
not heard of anyone even discussing
whether a zygote is an individual organism
or not--with the notable exception of Homo
sapiens zygotes when it come to arguments
about abortion rights.
But no other species I know of is
considered an individual organism at the
zygote stage, which makes me wonder why
Homo sapiens should be considered any
different from them. We differ from other
species only in degree, and not in kind.
Does this person actually call himself a
scientist? OMG they must be insane. Have
they taken NO CLASSES? Am I reading this
right or are they actually denying it is
human? You have got to be kidding me.
|
cmyked
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 294
Thanks: 50
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-08-08 07:17am
I think he's trying to say the same thing
I do: it's not an independent human being,
"whether a zygote is an individual
organism or not".
He's not trying to say it isn't human,
he's trying to say it isn't a person. He's
trying to explain the difference between
the zygote and a born baby or even a
viable fetus.
|
jujujellybean
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 133 Location: , US
Thanks: 0
Thanked:4
Posted: 05-08-08 08:13am
Reptar
wrote:
It's not illegal. And it's
obviously been made legal for a reason.
You can apply your ridiculous statement to
anything. What if sleeping in a bed were
made illegal, would it then be wrong? No,
and that's why it's not illegal.
"Slavery
will not be made illegal. It's obviously
been made legal for a reason, because they
are lesser beings. It won't be made
illegal." How much do you want to bet a
slave owner said that?
And yes she does lose the right to kill by
neglect once the baby is born. That's the
law. I don't know how other I can explain
that to you. Once you choose to go ahead
with a pregnancy and you choose to give
birth and you have an INDIVIDUAL, it is
your duty to take care of the baby and
give it adequate support.
But your
argument: "it's her body she doesn't have
to do anything" just went out the door on
a magic carpet. You can't explain because
it is inconsistent. Reminder: it was also
against the law for slaves to run away.
Wasn't that a bad law? Wasn't slavery in
general?
person
1. a human being regarded as an
individual
individual
1. single; separate
funny, I can find dictionary definitions
that both back up my beliefs and the law.
Abortion is OKAY. It's not great but it's
certainly better than the alternative in
many cases. The law agrees with me. The
law isn't changing anytime soon, and
hasn't changed in a long time. Once you
gain a bit of perspective, you may
understand this.
Funny, when haven't I been able to come up
with a dictionary definition that supports
my beliefs? That would
be....hmmmm....can't think of a time....
1. a human being, whether man, woman, or
child: The table seats four persons.
2. a human being as distinguished from an
animal or a thing.
3. an individual human being, esp. with
reference to his or her social
relationships and behavioral patterns as
conditioned by the culture.
4. a self-conscious or rational being.
5. the actual self or individual
personality of a human being: You ought
not to generalize, but to consider the
person you are dealing with.
6. the body of a living human being,
sometimes including the clothes being
worn.
7. the body in its external aspect.
8. a character, part, or role, as in a
play or story.
9. an individual of distinction or
importance.
10. a
person not entitled to social recognition
or respect.
SINCE a fetus is in fact a human being and
a child (would you like me to quote also
from the dictionary where it says a child
is an unborn fetus as well?) that would
mean it is a person.
The point is, you deny its a baby when
abortionists who DO THE ABORTIONS know it
is. Why?