if someone were to
commit homicide while i sleep i wouldn't
know about that either. and if somebody
were to commit homicide while i was awake
i wouldn't know that either because dead
people don't know anything.
.
Actually you would feel pain, until you
died, as a z/e/f though they do not feel
pain their is medical professionals that
say not until mid 20 (wks.) I have been
stabbed I know pain, I walked dow the
wrong road one day and got it in the knee,
I would voluntarily show the scar too if
you would like.
We feel pain, they dont, you dont know
pain till you can think.
what does feeling pain have to do with
deserving to live? is that some sort of a
rule you made up because you think you are
some sort of a god?
* CLAIM: The 12-week fetus experiences
pain.
* FACTS: At this stage of the
pregnancy, the brain and nervous system
are still in a very early stage of
development. The beginnings of the brain
stem, which includes a rudimentary
thalamus and spinal cord, is being formed.
Most brain cells are not developed.
Without a cerebral cortex (gray matter
covering the brain), pain impulses cannot
be received or perceived. Additionally,
experts find that newborns at 26–27
weeks' gestation (24–25 weeks' fetal
age) who survive have significantly less
response to pain than do full term
newborns.
The American College of Obstetricians and
Gynecologists
Statement on Pain of the Fetus
We know of no legitimate scientific
information that supports the statement
that a fetus experiences pain early in
pregnancy.
We do know that the cerebellum attains its
final configuration in the seventh month
and that mylenization (or covering) of the
spinal cord and the brain begins between
the 20th and 40th weeks of pregnancy.
These, as well as other neurological
developments, would have to be in place
for the fetus to receive pain.
To feel pain, a fetus needs
neurotransmitted hormones. In animals,
these complex chemicals develop in the
last third of gestation. We know of no
evidence that humans are different.
Sally Faith Dorfman, MD
Assistant Professor, Albert Einstein
College of Medicine,
Assistant Clinical Professor, Mount Sinai
Hart Peterson, MD
Chief of Pediatric Neurology, New York
Hospital,
Clinical Professor of Neurology in
Pediatrics, Cornell University Medical
Center
William Rashbaum, MD
Assistant Clinical Professor, Albert
Einstein College of Medicine
Seymour L. Romney, MD
Professor, Ob/Gyn, Director, Gynecological
Cancer Research, and former Chairman,
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology,
Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Allan Rosenfield, MD
Professor, Ob/Gyn and Public Health,
Acting Chairman, Department of Obstetrics
and Gynecology Director, Center for
Population and Family Health, College of
Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia
University
Herbert G. Vaughan, Jr. MD
Professor of Neuroscience, Neurology and
Pediatrics, Director, Rose F. Kennedy
Center for Research in Mental Retardation
and Human Development, Albert Einstein
College of Medicine
Ming-Neng Yeh, MD
Associate Clinical Professor, Dept. of
Ob/Gyn Ultrasound Laboratory, Columbia
Presbyterian Medical Center.
******************************************
******************************************
****************
antrise
wrote:
to influence some naive girl into
believing that abortion is not wrong
because the being inside her womb is not
alive or is not human is committing cold
blooded conspiricy to commit homicide. if
a naive girl obtains an abortion because
she was led to believe that the being
inside her womb is not human or alive that
is cold blooded premeditated homicide.
Well she isnt, when you go to a clinic you
are well informed that it is a Z/e/f is
alive and very much human. They also tell
you, that you can back out at any time,
that if you are feeling pressure not to.
They also make you sign paperwork to make
sure you understand exactly what was said
and what is going to happen, just like any
surgical procedure.
Naieve no, ANTRISE you are blind, open
your eyes.........
Anything can be alive, Yes it is human but
the difference between a Child that is
here and a child that is a potential with
a conscious, not feeling pain,
emotions.
what does feeling pain have to do with
deserving to be alive? is that some sort
of rule you made up because you believe
you are some sort of a god? any person can
be numbed up enough to not feel pain at
any level of devlopment? are you trying to
convince us that homicide is acceptable as
long as you inject the victims with
morphine prior to whacking them?
|
leftistdestroyer
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 28 Location: ,
Re: Pro-lifers Posted: 06-15-08 19:23pm
Lilly Ivy
wrote:
Just a question for the
pro-lifers...
The way I see it, PLs are 100% against
abortion. But PCs are theoretically 50%
for and 50% against abortion. Just because
someone is PC, doesn't mean they will get
an abortion as soon as they find out they
are pregnant, or even have one at all. I'm
PC, and I personally probably wouldn't
have an abortion, but would never look
down on anyone having one.
My question is, why is it so hard to
accept that PC means they have the CHOICE
to abort, not necessarily SUPPORTING every
woman to have an abortion? Also, why is
abortion automatically associated with
promiscuousy and lack of
BC?
The PC crowd looks at the lives of the
currently living, the mother and father,
and see how a baby would affect their
lives. The pro life crowd looks at the
unborn, yet alive, and try to protect it
and give it a chance at continuing it's
young life.
Being pro choice, DOES support every
abortion that happens. That is the simple
truth. Even the term, Pro Choice: Choose
life, or death. It is really that simple.
Another term could be: Abortion
sympathizer. YOU may never have an
abortion, but you would support those who
would.
Abortion is NOT automatically associated
with promiscuity or lack of BC. That is a
blatent lie and misconception about pro
lifers. Our position is: We don't care
how or why one became pregnant, we only
want the innocent life, to be allowed to
live.
But, you needn't worry about this for much
longer. The Pro Life movement is dead.
Sure, it is active, but it is pointless.
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 3332 Location: , Candyland-Canada
Thanks: 98
Thanked:159
Posted: 06-15-08 20:10pm
antrise
wrote:
how is
calling unborn humans potential humans not
influencing naive uneducated girls to
believe that the unborn are not human? i
don't wear eye protection the entire time
i am building jet aircraft because i want
to be blind. and if you think i deserve to
be blind you need to take a trip to new
york and take a look at those twin
towers.
Where did I say in post they weren't human
PLEASE QUOTE
If you read correctly I said they were
human, if you read correctly and Ill RE
QUOTE Iwhat I wrote
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BORN child
and a unborn child (or as a potential as
you like to call them)
Any scientist,Doctor, or any educated
person can tell you that Antrise..
BORN CHILD-Feels pain, has emotions, needs
attention, needs affection, needs to be
fed with food either by breat or with
formula and then moves on to JAR FOOD etc
etc..
A Unborn
Takes away oxygen from its mother, does
not feel pain, has no emotions, does not
have a conscious, takes the mothers
energy, consumes what the mother consumes,
can cause health issues in a mother,
either light or severe.
antrise
wrote:
We feel pain, they dont, you dont know
pain till you can think.
what does feeling pain have to do with
deserving to live? is that some sort of a
rule you made up because you think you are
some sort of a
god?
If you dont know pain do you want to live?
Being able to feel, live, breathe,
feeling emtions is what makes us
conscious.
Considering I tried to commit suicide when
I was a teenager due to abuse, I was numb
but I could still feel pain...........it
just doesnt affect you the same way....
A unborn human cannot feel any pain at
ALlL EMOTIONALLY OR PHYSICALLY.
|
leftistdestroyer
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 28 Location: ,
Posted: 06-15-08 20:53pm
diamondsz
[quote]THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A
BORN child and a unborn child (or as a
potential as you like to call them)
Any scientist,Doctor, or any educated
person can tell you that Antrise..
BORN CHILD-Feels pain, has emotions, needs
attention, needs affection, needs to be
fed with food either by breat or with
formula and then moves on to JAR FOOD etc
etc..
A Unborn
Takes away oxygen from its mother, does
not feel pain, has no emotions, does not
have a conscious, takes the mothers
energy, consumes what the mother consumes,
can cause health issues in a mother,
either light or severe.
If you dont know pain do you want to live?
Being able to feel, live, breathe,
feeling emtions is what makes us
conscious.
A unborn human cannot feel any pain at
ALlL EMOTIONALLY OR PHYSICALLY.[quote/]
So they do not feel pain, what is your
point?
|
diamondsz
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 3332 Location: , Candyland-Canada
Thanks: 98
Thanked:159
Posted: 06-15-08 20:57pm
[quote="leftistdestroyer"]diamondsz
Quote:
THERE IS A
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BORN child and a
unborn child (or as a potential as you
like to call them)
Any scientist,Doctor, or any educated
person can tell you that Antrise..
BORN CHILD-Feels pain, has emotions, needs
attention, needs affection, needs to be
fed with food either by breat or with
formula and then moves on to JAR FOOD etc
etc..
A Unborn
Takes away oxygen from its mother, does
not feel pain, has no emotions, does not
have a conscious, takes the mothers
energy, consumes what the mother consumes,
can cause health issues in a mother,
either light or severe.
If you dont know pain do you want to live?
Being able to feel, live, breathe,
feeling emtions is what makes us
conscious.
A unborn human cannot feel any pain at
ALlL EMOTIONALLY OR PHYSICALLY.[quote/]
So they do not feel pain, what is your
point?
Point is there is a difference between a
born child and an unborn child and if you
read his post hes trying to say that we
dont feel pain...... none the less its up
abit.
|
leftistdestroyer
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 28 Location: ,
reply Posted: 06-15-08 20:59pm
"Point is there is a difference between a
born child and an unborn child and if you
read his post hes trying to say that we
dont feel pain"
Yeah, but what is the overall point you
are trying to make?
|
AyaMiyaki
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 8509 Location: Floating on a cloud, United States
Thanks: 213
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Posted: 06-15-08 21:31pm
It's not about the unborn "not deserving
to live". It's about the mother deserving
to choose for herself whether she wants to
give her body over to a pregnancy. The
unborn zef/child/baby/your-choice-of-word
does die in the process, and that's
unfortunate. If there were a way to safely
remove it without causing death, I would
advocate for that. But the mother should
not be subjected to a pregnancy unless she
chooses to be.
Joined: 09 Aug 2007 Posts: 1685 Location: Newell, WV
Thanks: 65
Thanked:110
Posted: 06-15-08 21:32pm
They don't feel pain, they have no
conscience, they don't know what's going
on.
The first time I watched 'the silent
scream', where 'scientists' claimed a 12wk
old fetus was screaming, I cried. But when
I got my ultrasound done, I realized every
movement that baby was doing, my baby was
doing the same thing, with no type of
instrument invading her space.
The only people that know a fetus is
aborted is the people that do it, and the
woman/parents of zef/whoever they told. If
a baby is born full term, it affects a lot
more lives than that, so killing a
homeless person is a lot different that
killing a z/e/f that less than 10 people
know about.
|
leftistdestroyer
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 28 Location: ,
Posted: 06-15-08 21:59pm
AyaMiyaki
wrote:
It's not about the unborn
"not deserving to live". It's about the
mother deserving to choose for herself
whether she wants to give her body over to
a pregnancy. The unborn
zef/child/baby/your-choice-of-word does
die in the process, and that's
unfortunate. If there were a way to safely
remove it without causing death, I would
advocate for that. But the mother should
not be subjected to a pregnancy unless she
chooses to
be.
That is where we differ. To us, it is not
about the quality of life, it is about
life. We advocate personal
responsibillity and self control. The
choice whether to kill or let a baby live,
was made the night that it's parents had
sex. The total disregard for life here,
is astonishing. You feel that an unborn
life is not worthy of life.
|
leftistdestroyer
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 28 Location: ,
Posted: 06-15-08 22:06pm
Lilly Ivy
wrote:
If a baby is born full term, it affects a
lot more lives than that, so killing a
homeless person is a lot different that
killing a z/e/f that less than 10 people
know about.
Based on the attitudes expressed here,
there is zero difference. It seems to all
boil down to the quality of life here. To
the pro aborts, their quality of life,
will supposedly go down if they have their
baby. Just like a homeless persons low
quality of life. And those other lives
that you speak of, could come to find out
that it would have been a loss to never
have had the baby. Babies can effect
lot's of people in a very positive way,
emotionally, for example. Where killing
is always negative.
|
AyaMiyaki
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 8509 Location: Floating on a cloud, United States
Thanks: 213
Thanked:15
Posted: 06-15-08 22:06pm
AyaMiyaki
wrote:
The unborn
zef/child/baby/your-choice-of-word does
die in the process, and that's
unfortunate. If there were a way to safely
remove it without causing death, I would
advocate for
that.
leftistdestroyer
wrote:
You feel that an unborn life
is not worthy of
life.
Erm... do you have trouble reading? Or
do you just choose to read the exact
opposite of what I type?
Quote:
The choice
whether to kill or let a baby live, was
made the night that it's parents had
sex.
Do you feel the same way about rape? Do
you feel sex is only for procreation? Are
you personally against birth control?
Quote:
I feel that your
life is not worthy of
it.
You don't even know me, sugar. You don't
know a single thing about me. Whatever
ideas you have in your little head about
what I'm worthy of are irrelevant to me.
Quote:
And if I had the
same laws that pro aborts have protecting
their right to kill...lol pro choicers
are lucky the law is
hypocritical.
Is that a threat?
|
neat62
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 9
Reply... Posted: 06-15-08 22:11pm
The mother gets to make her "CHOICE" when
she decides to have SEX or NOT...period!
Becoming pregnant AFTER making the choice
to commit the ACT that may CREATE a
child...is called a CONSEQUENCE!!!
No, it's called a punishment, and it's
something you only wish to inflict on
women for sexual activity.
Please step out of the dark ages and stop
treating women like wombs with legs.
|
neat62
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 9
reply... Posted: 06-15-08 22:25pm
AyaMiyaki
wrote:
AyaMiyaki
wrote:
The unborn
zef/child/baby/your-choice-of-word does
die in the process, and that's
unfortunate. If there were a way to safely
remove it without causing death, I would
advocate for
that.
leftistdestroyer
wrote:
You feel that an unborn life
is not worthy of
life.
Erm... do you have trouble reading? Or
do you just choose to read the exact
opposite of what I type?
Quote:
The choice
whether to kill or let a baby live, was
made the night that it's parents had
sex.
Do you feel the same way about rape? Do
you feel sex is only for procreation? Are
you personally against birth control?
Quote:
I feel that your
life is not worthy of
it.
You don't even know me, sugar. You don't
know a single thing about me. Whatever
ideas you have in your little head about
what I'm worthy of are irrelevant to me.
Quote:
And if I had the
same laws that pro aborts have protecting
their right to kill...lol pro choicers
are lucky the law is
hypocritical.
Is that a
threat?
You want to have sex...then be prepared to
deal with the consequences that may arise
from CHOOSING to do so...period!
Yea, I am against birth control...with the
exception of ABSTINENCE! Now tell us...do
you believe that women are too stupid to
know what causes pregnancy? And do you
believe that women are incapable of
controlling themselves...meaning, they are
pretty much like animals, have sex
whenever the urge takes over???
Because essentially that is what you are
saying! That women are totally incapable
of THINKING BEFORE THEY ACT!
"Erm... do you have trouble reading? Or
do you just choose to read the exact
opposite of what I type?"
You say it is unfortunate. Which means
that you don't you may not like it, but
you still support killing it to shore up
"choice".
"But the mother should not be subjected to
a pregnancy unless she chooses to be."
See? Hey, you said it.
"Do you feel the same way about rape?"
Yep. Life does suck sometimes. Plus it
is only 1% of all abortions.
"Do you feel sex is only for
procreation?"
Yep. Cavemen didn't know what foreplay
was. They did what they had to do in 30
seconds, and left.
"Are you personally against birth
control?"
I condone the NFP(natural family planning)
You should try it, the build up leads to
some really great sex.
"You don't even know me, sugar. You don't
know a single thing about me. Whatever
ideas you have in your little head about
what I'm worthy of are irrelevant to me."
Did you read what I wrote, the part that
you quoted back to me? It said this:
I feel that your life is not worthy of
it.
I said that "I" feel. Just like you feel
that an unborn baby is unworthy of life
because it infringes on "choice", I feel
about you, because you support abortion.
"Is that a threat?"
LOL Nope. Did you read what I read? I
said that because of the law, I am no
threat to you.
|
neat62
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 9
Posted: 06-15-08 22:27pm
Quote:
No, it's called a
punishment, and it's something you only
wish to inflict on women for sexual
activity.
Please step out of the dark ages and stop
treating women like wombs with legs.
So a child is punishment in your eyes?
Who's in the dark ages?? You actually
think that women are incapable of THINKING
BEFORE they ACT...talk about insulting and
degrading...I thought all you "pro-choice"
supporters were advocates for women???
Instead you actually want us to believe
they are too stupid and naive to actually
make an EDUCATED decision...sigh...
|
leftistdestroyer
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 28 Location: ,
Posted: 06-15-08 22:34pm
Darkmoon
wrote:
No, it's called a
punishment, and it's something you only
wish to inflict on women for sexual
activity.
Please step out of the dark ages and stop
treating women like wombs with
legs.
Something we wish to inflict on women for
sexual activity??? I would be pro
abortion if sexual activity was the only
thing on my mind. The dark ages were a
brutal time in history. People were
killed with blunt steel objects and bloody
deaths were common. Humm. Sounds like an
abortion. Who lives in the Dark Ages???
You are the ones killing lives in a brutal
way.
|
Darkmoon
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 08 Dec 2007 Posts: 434 Location: ,
Thanks: 98
Thanked:55
Posted: 06-15-08 22:52pm
leftistdestroyer
wrote:
Darkmoon
wrote:
No, it's called a
punishment, and it's something you only
wish to inflict on women for sexual
activity.
Please step out of the dark ages and stop
treating women like wombs with
legs.
Something we wish to inflict on women for
sexual activity??? I would be pro
abortion if sexual activity was the only
thing on my mind. The dark ages were a
brutal time in history. People were
killed with blunt steel objects and bloody
deaths were common. Humm. Sounds like an
abortion. Who lives in the Dark Ages???
You are the ones killing lives in a brutal
way.
No, we are the ones supporting human
rights for women. Unless you also
consider people that decline to donate
blood, organs and tissue to be "killing
lives" your emo-babble is purely
hypocritical. A woman has as much right
as a man to refuse the use of her body to
another, even if the other will die
without it. You support a stance that
demands women be given fewer bodily rights
than men, and fetuses be given greater
rights than born people.
|
leftistdestroyer
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 28 Location: ,
Posted: 06-15-08 23:43pm
[quote="Darkmoon"][quote="leftistdestroyer
"]
Darkmoon
wrote:
No, it's called a
punishment, and it's something you only
wish to inflict on women for sexual
activity.
No, we are the ones supporting human
rights for women. Unless you also
consider people that decline to donate
blood, organs and tissue to be "killing
lives" your emo-babble is purely
hypocritical. A woman has as much right
as a man to refuse the use of her body to
another, even if the other will die
without it. You support a stance that
demands women be given fewer bodily rights
than men, and fetuses be given greater
rights than born
people.
Declining to donate blood, is not the same
as ripping a body apart. But, I know that
you know that.
And yes, a woman can refuse the use of her
body to another. And she achieves that by
not going through the actions that create
another. Look, man and woman create baby.
Baby does not "infect" a mother. In this
day and age, if people are not smart
enough to know that, then perhaps we
should prop up eugenics again. A fetus is
alive and it is innocent. The mother that
willingly has it killed, should be ...
Dont want baby, dont have sex. And incase
you aren't familiar with biology, that is
what sex is for. Not something for us to
do on a Saturday night for fun. You play,
you should pay.
|
antrise
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 May 2008 Posts: 123
Posted: 06-15-08 23:47pm
AyaMiyaki
wrote:
It's not about the unborn
"not deserving to live". It's about the
mother deserving to choose for herself
whether she wants to give her body over to
a pregnancy. The unborn
zef/child/baby/your-choice-of-word does
die in the process, and that's
unfortunate. If there were a way to safely
remove it without causing death, I would
advocate for that. But the mother should
not be subjected to a pregnancy unless she
chooses to
be.
on one hand you trying to get us to
believe that most women are either too
stupid or too uneducated to know what
causes pregnancy and didin't choose the
course of action that caused pregnancy
because of this. and on the other hand you
complain about being called halfwits. well
what is it? are women half wits or are
women cold blooded homocidal maniacs.?
Or
do you just choose to read the exact
opposite of what I type?
