Do Grandparents Have a "right" to Their Grandchild Posted: 07-20-07 12:24pm
I was reading on another forum that
someone thought that she had a "right" to
her grandchildren. What do you think? Do
or should grandparents have a legal right
to their grandchildren? Do they then have
inherrent responsibilities? What should
one do if they feel the grandparents are
mistreating/abusing them? What about
spoiling them beyond the range of comfort
for a parent? Some states already have
established instances where grandparents
do have rights. What do you think?
*edited to add:
Some people are using this as an argument
for anti-abortion laws as well.
Last edited by sillyakchick on 07-20-07 12:37pm; edited 1 time in total
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AyaMiyaki
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Posted: 07-20-07 12:31pm
*blink*
No. I don't see how they justify that.
Your child's child is not your child. In a
perfect world, every parent and child
would have a great relationship, and
therefore there would be no problems with
grandparent/grandchild. But I know if my
mother tried to get any sort of rights to
Alyvia I would fight her tooth and nail.
If the baby is being put up for adoption
or has been taken into protective custody,
that's different. But otherwise, I don't
see where the sense of entitlement comes
from.
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kaerbear
Most Diplomatic Poster
Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 1557 Location: ,
Posted: 07-20-07 12:37pm
where i live, they just established a bill
of rights for grandparents. mind you it's
pretty limited but i think it's an
excellent thing. oh boy, long story. i
haven't seen my two nieces in 10 years. i
was so close with them, especially the
younger one who was almost 3 the last time
i saw her. i held her on the day she was
born and saw her almost every day after.
my mom was also very close with them. my
brother's wife was a little bit
controlling to say the least. i think it
bothered her how close we were to the
kids, but we didn't spoil them. we
weren't allowed to. there were very
strict rules we had to follow as to what
we could say and do with the kids. like,
we were never allowed to ask them to do
anything. you couldn't say to the girls
"we should go to the park" or for a
picnic, or to kokom's house (grandma's) or
anything. so we never did. we always had
to clear it with mom first. anyway, my
brother quit law school so he could work
while she finished her social work degree.
when she graduated he was supposed to go
back to law school while she worked. but
she didn't want to work, she wanted a
baby. he said no. she went to my mom.
my mom said "it's none of my business" and
wouldn't get involved. my sister in law
freaked out and said we couldn't ever see
the girls again. we went for family
mediation and counselling. nothing
worked. she finally looked me in the eye
and said there was no reason for it, i
hadn't really done anything, she just
didn't want to share her family anymore.
she told my mom "he's MY husband now, not
your son". and that was that.
my mom didn't take them to court over it
because she believed they would change
their minds over time. they still
haven't. the older girl is 17 now and
emails my mom (and sometimes me) and
sneaks behind her parent's back to see
her. i haven't seen either of them yet
and i still cry when i think about them.
my mom was part of a group of grandparents
in similar situations that lobbied the
government to give them some rights. the
only thing that it changed was that
parents have to do some family mediation
and provide a good reason for excluding
the grandparents.
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kaerbear
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Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 1557 Location: ,
Posted: 07-20-07 12:50pm
i just want to add, that "rights" in most
cases means the right to have access to
and visitation with the child. custody
cases are different. i think, the more
important question is what are the rights
of the child? the children should have
the right to have people in their life
that are their blood relations, that love
them and only want the best for them.
just because one parent doesn't like the
grandparent shouldn't be enough of a
reason to exclude them entirely from the
life of the child. unless there is a good
reason or reasonable suspicion that
contact with the grandparent will be
detrimental to the child, then they should
have some rights. even with the bill that
was recently passed here, the grandparents
would still have to petition the courts at
their own expense in order to exercise
those rights, and most grandparents won't
even do that because they want to salvage
the relationship with their child as well.
divorces can be nasty and can result in a
lot of immature behaviour on the part of
the parents and that is the major cause of
situations where the grandparents are
denied access. my sister in law
threatened to divorce my brother and take
his children if he didn't give her her way
and although nothing has ever hurt me
more, i can somewhat understand the
decision he made. i, as an aunt, however,
have no rights whatsoever.
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*star*
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Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 1801 Location: ,
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Posted: 07-20-07 13:01pm
This is a good topic and I'm sure it will
get some varied response. Kaerbear your
story made me so upset about your sister
in law and frankly scares me to death.
My family recently had an upheaval that
involved my brother, his wife, my parents
and my niece. The fighting went on for
months. My sister in law was forbidding
my mom to see her grandchild because they
were fighting. They were constantly
putting my niece in the middle of the
arguments and using her as a pawn. They
would basically tell my mom that she must
see things their way or they couldn't see
their grandchild. It was really sad.
Eventually they made up and things are
back to normal, but it scares me that they
might try to do this to my mom again. It
absolutely tore my mom to pieces so much
that she could barely function.
Several times she talked to lawyers about
getting some grandparents rights for
visitation. The lawyers told her that if
she went through with it, that they would
have a good chance at winning, and being
able to have some visitation with her
grandchild.
I think that under certain situations,
that it is good that there are some kind
of grandparents rights. If the parents
are abusive, un fit, doing drugs, and
basically in an unsafe situation, then it
is a good thing for the child to be
removed. In my family's situation, I
think that it would have been good and
bad. I do think that my mom has some
right to see my niece, but on the other
hand, I can only imagine the damage it
would cause between my mom and my brother
and sister in law. It would have cause
some irreversible damage. not to mention
confusing the heck out of my niece.
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Mommy35
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Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3165 Location: Vacationland, USA,
Posted: 07-20-07 13:22pm
I think if you feel the grandparent is a
good person and you trust that they are
not going do something like kidnap or hurt
your child, why wouldn't you want them in
the child's life? Kids need family and
the more the better. I personally think
it's ridiculous to not allow a grandparent
to see thier grandchildren because of some
petty argument. If it's a question of
safety that is another story.
As far as Do they have a right to them?
No, it's your child and if you don't feel
that they are going to be a positive
influence in your child's life, you should
have the right to deny them access to your
children. If you feel they are abusive or
putting your kids in harm's way you
shouldn't let your kids go around them.
If a grandparent wants to be a pain in the
butt (PIA) they could go to court and
petition for visitation and the parents
should have good reason to deny it.
Grandparents spoil kids, it's what they
do. If a grandparent were to blatently go
against your beliefs or do something that
you morally think is wrong than you should
say something to them and if they continue
let them know that if they can't abide by
your parenting than you may not feel
comfortable having your child with them.
To deny a grandparent from seeing their
grandbaby because grandma gave little
Johnny a cookie before dinner is a pretty
small thing IMO.
Where I live if a child is removed from
their mother by CPS the children may not
go to the mother's parents because our
state feels that the grandparents raised
the mother and therefore their parenting
skills might be lacking too.
I do not think that a grandparent has one
iota of say in whether a mother chooses to
keep or abort a baby. It is a mother's
right to choose. She, after all is the
one who has to live with her decision.
The grandmother of my daughter ruined my
adoption plan.
I want to stick a stake through her effing
face some days when I think about all the
power she had in something that should
have been my choice.
Anyways... I don't have anything to add to
the discussion.
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Magical Logic
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 2248
Posted: 07-20-07 20:14pm
i do not think they have a"right"
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Tylanas
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Re: Do Grandparents Have a "right" to Their Grandc Posted: 07-20-07 21:08pm
sillyakchick
wrote:
I was reading on another
forum that someone thought that she had a
"right" to her grandchildren. What do you
think? Do or should grandparents have a
legal right to their grandchildren? Do
they then have inherrent responsibilities?
What should one do if they feel the
grandparents are mistreating/abusing them?
What about spoiling them beyond the range
of comfort for a parent? Some states
already have established instances where
grandparents do have rights. What do you
think?
*edited to add:
Some people are using this as an argument
for anti-abortion laws as
well.
No.*shrug* they don't have any rights.
Family-laws are not real laws. If a parent
does not want the grandparent there for
some reason, then the grandparent needs to
leave. GP's do not have a right to
discipline the child beyond the ways the
parent would. Spoiling is just gonna
happen lol, but if the parent is
uncomfortable they have a right to remove
the child from the situation, or kick the
GP out of the house if the parent and
child are at home.
A grandparent has NO claim to the
grandchild before it is born and they do
NOT have priority in adoption cases.
They've already raised a child, they had
their time in the limelight. My mother
thinks she's going to take any accidental
pregnancy I get and raise it herself, and
that's this situation. I absolutely
refuse. She has no right to raise my
child. I'm gonna abort if I wanna, and I'm
going to give it up for adoption to
strangers if I wanna. The LAST person I
want raising my child is my mother.
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Carifairy
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Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 2610 Location: Charlotte n.c.
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Posted: 07-20-07 21:40pm
I have seen this discussion before, in
magazine articles, and in 'real life'.
hehe.. Disclaimer..
I would like to believe that each mom and
dad has their childs best interest at
heart, that is not always the case, but I
am pretending that it is...
Grandparents can be a blessing, but they
can also be a curse. I trust that if
someone has a reason to deny visitation to
g-parents, that they have a good reason,
and that it is none of my business
No, they do not have rights.
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kaerbear
Most Diplomatic Poster
Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 1557 Location: ,
Posted: 07-20-07 22:37pm
they don't always have a good reason.
there are such things as elder abuse too.
my mom's best friend has both of her sons
living with her because they moved back
home when they couldn't make it on their
own. her younger son had a daughter with
a girl and the girl abandoned them before
the baby was one year old. she has since
started another family with another guy
and isn't interested in custody. so, my
mom's friend has been helping to raise
this little girl who is now 6. her son
treats his mom like garbage and doesn't do
anything to help around the house. but
she tolerates him because she knows that
if she were to kick him out she would
never see her grandchild again. she
doesn't want to raise a little girl on her
own, she is already in her 60's and is
still working full time. but at the same
time, she wants to be in her
granddaughter's life, so she puts up with
all the abuse. if he decided tomorrow to
walk out of there with his daughter and
tell his mom she has no right to see her
anymore, she should have some kind of
supports, by law, to have visitation and
access to her granddaughter, but according
to what people are saying she has "no
right". there are a lot of stories out
there like this. my mom takes a lot of
crap from my sister as well for fear of
losing her granddaughter because my sister
tells her flat out, if i dont get what i
want you wont see her ever again. after
what happened with my brother, what do you
think my mom does? whatever my sister
asks. you can't say grandparents should
have no rights in every situation. it's
not like they can just waltz in and take
the child with no reason. if they have
some backing by law it only gives them a
small chance in hell that a judge would
rule in favour of giving them visitation
anyway.
* as far as the law goes where i live, up
until now the onus has been entirely on
the grandparents to try to prove that they
have been shut out for no good reason. if
they were to take it to court, they would
have to convince the judge that they have
been treated unfairly by the parent or
parents and rely totally on the judge's
discretion. now, with the new by-law, the
parents have some responsibility in
proving their decision to not allow any
access to the grandparents. they have to
have some measure of proof that the
relationship is detrimental to the child.
now, judges have more of a choice in
giving grandparents a chance to see their
grandkids (ie. visit, not get custody)
through family mediation or visitation
orders. it is still the judge's choice,
but now there is a very slightly higher
likelyhood that they will order some
mediation or limited access if the parents
can't come up with a solid reason for
denying them.
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Carifairy
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Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 2610 Location: Charlotte n.c.
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Posted: 07-21-07 11:29am
Grandparents do not have rights, it is not
'their' child, and they are not raising
the children themselves.
I am not taking into account g-parents
that are raising children..I am saying
that in a perfect scenario...
A woman has the right to deny HER OWN
mother visitation, for any reason, no
matter what.
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kaerbear
Most Diplomatic Poster
Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 1557 Location: ,
Posted: 07-21-07 11:49am
well, where i live, they actually DO have
rights. it's the law. whether people
like it or not it has been studied and
proposed and passed into law. from what i
hear it has become a trend and these laws
are being enacted in more places all the
time. so, obviously, someone sees a need
for them.
also, my mom isn't raising her grandchild
but she is an extremely positive and
loving influence on her. my niece would
be devastated if she lost contact with
her, just like my other nieces were. the
children should also, at some point, have
some say in the matter, like they do in
the case of parental visitation. you
can't know what it's like until you have
it happen to you and see how unfair it is
to both the adult and the child. it can
cause lasting damage to a child's
emotional well being. i don't think you
should really say outright that no
grandparents should have any rights when
there are so many different situations
possible.
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bernibaby86
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 186 Location: Pennsylvania
Posted: 07-22-07 12:37pm
I feel that no grandparents should have
any rights unless they hold guardianship
of their grandchild in cases where the
child's parents are no longer living or
cannot provide for the child. The reason
with my feelings towards is b/c I do not
get along with my b/f's mother and she
should not have any rights towards my
daughter. She is unfit to be a grandmother
let alone a mother. She has done so many
things that I am not happy and I dont want
my daughter growing up knowing what her so
called grandmother does is right. Her
grandmother has been thrown into jail
twice for shoplifting and so far cannot
support her two younder children. Cannot
hold a job and she's draining this poor
old guy's money just so she can get by. My
daughter can have a relationship with her
grandmother but only to a certain extent.
I want to raise my daughter...my way. So
now i am speaking to a lawyer later on in
the week to get started on some legal
documents if something should ever
happened to me.
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tigresacanela24
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 5261 Location: Treat your children well, eventually they'll choose your nursing home.
Posted: 07-22-07 12:53pm
I don't believe grandparents should have
any rights. I keep my son away from my
husband's family as much as possible,
especially his mother. They are not
people that I would leave a dog with let
alone my own flesh and blood. They are
not good people. They have no morals.
Their morals wouldn't necessarily have to
agree with mine if they were decent human
beings. But since they don't have any
morals they do what they want, when they
want, how they want and when they suffer
the consequences of their own actions they
blame everyone but themselves. I will not
allow my son to be corrupted by them. his
mother is perhaps the worst because she
has allowed her children to be molested in
the past by previous boyfriends. Then she
ignored the situation and kept the
boyfriends because she's the type that
always has to have a man. When we went to
visit them her new boyfriend was there.
He's younger than her children and an
alcoholic. I was keeping my son in my
sight while we were there and asked her
not to take him anywhere where i couldn't
see him. So she waited until i went into
the kitchen to make him a bottle and ran
upstairs to take him to her boyfriend.
when i came out of the kitchen and saw he
wasn't there, i ran upstairs and when she
saw me coming she slammed the door in my
face. so you know that at that point all
*ehem* broke loose. I would do her fatal
bodily harm before i would allow her to so
much as cross the street with my baby.
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bernibaby86
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 186 Location: Pennsylvania
Posted: 07-22-07 13:07pm
tigresacanela24
wrote:
I don't believe grandparents
should have any rights. I keep my son
away from my husband's family as much as
possible, especially his mother. They are
not people that I would leave a dog with
let alone my own flesh and blood. They
are not good people. They have no morals.
Their morals wouldn't necessarily have to
agree with mine if they were decent human
beings. But since they don't have any
morals they do what they want, when they
want, how they want and when they suffer
the consequences of their own actions they
blame everyone but themselves. I will not
allow my son to be corrupted by them. his
mother is perhaps the worst because she
has allowed her children to be molested in
the past by previous boyfriends. Then she
ignored the situation and kept the
boyfriends because she's the type that
always has to have a man. When we went to
visit them her new boyfriend was there.
He's younger than her children and an
alcoholic. I was keeping my son in my
sight while we were there and asked her
not to take him anywhere where i couldn't
see him. So she waited until i went into
the kitchen to make him a bottle and ran
upstairs to take him to her boyfriend.
when i came out of the kitchen and saw he
wasn't there, i ran upstairs and when she
saw me coming she slammed the door in my
face. so you know that at that point all
*ehem* broke loose. I would do her fatal
bodily harm before i would allow her to so
much as cross the street with my
baby.
Thats how I exactly feel towards my b/f
mother. And its mainly the reason why I
refused to marry him. It's his mother and
her family i have a problem with. I'm fine
with his dad and his dad's family. I can
see why his dad divorced his mom. Cant
trust her with anything not even animals.
Every time used to have a pet with
her....and it does the slightest thing
wrong...she'll get rid of it or kill it.
Whenever she's around my daughter i
supervise her cuz i dont trust her.
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bernibaby86
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 186 Location: Pennsylvania
Posted: 07-22-07 13:10pm
Oh i just wanted to add one more thing
about my daughter's grandmother....not
only does she shoplift but she steals from
her own kids. Thats pretty sad that her
kids have to hide their money they receive
as a birthday present or they earn it. So
yea my daughter isnt gonna get hermoney
stolen from her own grandmother.
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tigresacanela24
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 5261 Location: Treat your children well, eventually they'll choose your nursing home.
Posted: 07-22-07 14:04pm
bernibaby86
wrote:
Oh i just wanted to add one
more thing about my daughter's
grandmother....not only does she shoplift
but she steals from her own kids. Thats
pretty sad that her kids have to hide
their money they receive as a birthday
present or they earn it. So yea my
daughter isnt gonna get hermoney stolen
from her own
grandmother.
I don't blame you at all. Isn't it
amazing that people like this exist? You
think that most people are really decent
at heart and then you meet these people.
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kaerbear
Most Diplomatic Poster
Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 1557 Location: ,
Posted: 07-22-07 14:09pm
but what about the grandparents that
aren't like that? tough sh_t for them?
if you have good reasons then that's one
thing and you can bring things like that
up with a judge IF they were to take it as
far as court, which most wouldn't just for
visitation. visitation can also be
supervised so you wouldn't have to worry
about the safety of the kids. but when
there is a strong relationship established
and the parent cuts it off for no good
reason that, to me, is wrong and there
should be a way to prevent it, even if
it's just to allow the family to see the
child once in a while, supervised or not.
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tigresacanela24
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 5261 Location: Treat your children well, eventually they'll choose your nursing home.
Posted: 07-22-07 14:16pm
kaerbear
wrote:
but what about the
grandparents that aren't like that? tough
sh_t for them? if you have good reasons
then that's one thing and you can bring
things like that up with a judge IF they
were to take it as far as court, which
most wouldn't just for visitation.
visitation can also be supervised so you
wouldn't have to worry about the safety of
the kids. but when there is a strong
relationship established and the parent
cuts it off for no good reason that, to
me, is wrong and there should be a way to
prevent it, even if it's just to allow the
family to see the child once in a while,
supervised or
not.
Actually, yes. I'm sorry but I think
tough sh*t for them. My children are my
children and I don't have to let them
around anyone that I don't want them
around. Whatever the reason. I know this
sounds harsh but this is the truth. Even
if I decide I don't want my child to visit
a relative because I'm a Buddhist and
they're not (or some equally assinine
reason). I have a right to raise my child
any way that I see fit and I have the
right to choose who I will allow my
children to associate with. Now while I
would hope that I wouldn't be a b*tch and
keep my children away from relatives
without good cause, if I choose to be then
I should be allowed that right. I am his
mother, no one else is. I'm sorry for you
situation but I believe that it is the
mother's right to choose who she will
allow her children to be with. And I
don't think any court should strip away
those rights.
