Another 'what If' Scenario - Pro-life Adoption Posted: 08-05-07 10:57am
I've been thinking about this for a while,
and I wonder exactly what kind of effect
it would have.
Imagine there being a law passed stating
that people need to let the government
know if they are pro-choice or pro-life.
If they claim PC, they get left alone to
go about their normal lives. If they claim
PL, they are legally required to adopt at
least one child in an American orphanage,
or, any fetuses they scream and whine to
save that do end up being born, said
pro-lifers will have a legal obligation to
support that child, ranging from only
financial support to being legally forced
to adopt that child.
If such a law existed, I envision a lot of
pro-liars claiming to be PC to get out of
the required adoption law. Why? Because,
as we all know, they don't care about the
life that already exists - they only care
about potential life. They shed tears over
clumps of cells that could have been, when
real children suffer every day in
orphanages. If these people were truly
pro-life, fetuses would not be very high
up on their priority list, because there's
tons of other life in the world that need
assistance. Forests get destroyed all the
time due to natural and unnatural causes.
Animals lose their homes so excess
populations can have a place to live.
Thousands of unwanted cats and dogs die
every day just because no one wanted them.
Thousands of children worldwide will live
their lives in the system because no one
wanted them. The elderly spend their final
days in crappy nursing homes because their
own children don't care enough about them
to visit. The elderly who live on their
own may not receive enough social security
to support themselves because all the
money goes to things like IVF and welfare
(to support/encourage further
overpopulation). Research for various
medical conditions often cannot continue
because of lack of funding.
So much existing life suffers, yet you
pro-lifers only give a damn about whether
or not they can ruin another woman's life
by making her keep an unwanted fetus. You
people should be thoroughly ashamed of
yourselves.
All pro-choicers I've ever known have been
more pro-life than the pro-lifers. They
volunteer (for things like Big
brother/Sister), they donate to shelters
of all sorts, adopt unwanted pets and
children....how is it that those of us who
believe in giving women a choice do more
to support life than those of you who lose
sleep knowing you can't force all women to
see from your twisted viewpoint?
|
Moo
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 1066 Location: London
Thanks: 21
Thanked:111
Posted: 08-05-07 11:01am
This is a very interesting viewpoint.
I wonder how many of the pl-ers on here
have adopted one (or more) and the
millions of unwanted children who have
been born into the world
|
monkeygirl22
Supporter
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 2398 Location: ,
Thanks: 9
Thanked:1
Posted: 08-05-07 11:13am
Well, I am pro-life, but let me make clear
that even though I am pro-life I do not
condone anyone lashing out or looking down
on people who do choose abortion. Even
though I don't believe in something does
not mean I can push my beliefs on others.
Now more to the question. My husband and I
started talking about adoption before we
even got married. We do want to adopt when
we can. Unfortunately, it's so expensive
to do that we are going to have to wait.
We are having our first child in february.
Hopefully, when I get out of school, which
will be in 2-3 years we can start moving
forward in our plans to adopt at least one
child.
I do agree that there would probably be a
lot of pro-lifers who would lie though to
get out of supporting an extra child.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 142
Thanked:13
Posted: 08-05-07 11:45am
Interesting scenario.
Let me first say I would've fought like
hell against the passage of such a law for
various reasons, including but not limited
to: 1. being forced to report your
political views to the gov't and 2. the
potential of forcing people to be parents
agitates my prochoice philosophy.
Secondly, I am not convinced that just
because someone is prolife means that they
should be obligated to raise someone
else's child. While I do know that
prolife's viewpoints often align with
political views that stunt the advancement
of single mothers into higher economic
brackets and therefore impede their
children, among other things, I would not
support a system that requires people of a
certain political ideology to be
financially bound to something that others
of the opposing viewpoint would not be.
While I think that prolife people *should*
be more prolife than they are I do not
think we should legislate morality for
them.
|
meblonde01
Supporter
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 2131 Location: ,
Thanks: 6
Thanked:2
Posted: 08-05-07 12:11pm
Good Point Birch. Not all people would be
good at being a parent.. Taking on a child
just for the “cause" would not be a good
idea for people that had no parenting
skills..
I often thought about adopting. But I felt
I was too old so I volunteer at the
children's hospital and only once a month
(it is a 2 hr drive) I volunteer at an
Orphanages. My husband was a single Dad so
I helped him raise his son who was 2 when
I met him and is 23 now. And in his last
year of college. wooo hoooo..
I’m not trying to pat myself on the back
( well yeah, I am! I did a good job with
my step-son) But being pro-life doesn’t
mean you have to adopt to be active in
children’s life that are less fortunate.
|
Carifairy
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 2610 Location: Charlotte n.c.
Thanks: 12
Thanked:0
Posted: 08-05-07 13:16pm
There are many kids in the foster system
that NEED adoption.
They will PAY YOU to adopt them...
Unless all you want is a fresh from the
vagina newborn...
|
haliparot
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 209 Location: San Diego, CA United States
Posted: 08-05-07 14:54pm
meblonde01
wrote:
Good Point Birch. Not all
people would be good at being a parent..
Taking on a child just for the “cause"
would not be a good idea for people that
had no parenting skills..
I often thought about adopting. But I felt
I was too old so I volunteer at the
children's hospital and only once a month
(it is a 2 hr drive) I volunteer at an
Orphanages. My husband was a single Dad so
I helped him raise his son who was 2 when
I met him and is 23 now. And in his last
year of college. wooo hoooo..
I’m not trying to pat myself on the back
( well yeah, I am! I did a good job with
my step-son) But being pro-life doesn’t
mean you have to adopt to be active in
children’s life that are less
fortunate.
It really isn't like that at all. The
situation posted is a "what if" and I
doubt it will trully happen. The situation
is only described so pro-life people like
yourself will gain more understanding
about the situation.
I believe that if pro-life people are
required to raise one child from the
orphanage, then they will understand the
situation of women who are not ready to
take care of a child financially and
emotionally and yet they are being forced
to carry the pregnancy to term or become a
parent\against her will
I agree to the first poster, if pro-lifers
care so much about their so called "creed"
then why not make this world a better
place by adopting children, helping
people, making other people's life better,
donating financially etc.
I can't believe that people go out of
their ways, so that they can prevent
abortion and yet they don't seem to care
about the "Exisiting life" around them
suffering in their own eyes.
Yet, some of these pro-life conservatives
supports the war. How ironic it is that
they care so obsessed about unborn
fetuses, yet they don't care about
thousands of innocent "ALIVE" children
suffering and dying because of the war.
In some third world countries, over
population causes poverty and yet the
majority of the pro-lifers don't seem to
care that millions of children don't have
food to eat and have the resource to stay
alive, so a lot of them live miserable
lives and die because of poverty.
I believe that if we sum it all up, pro
choicers are even more pro-life than
pro-lifers. Pro-choicers seems to have
more understanding about the life around
them that pro-lifers most of the time
ignore, since they are so pre occupied and
obsessed about saving blobs of cell in
tissue in somebody else' womb.
|
meblonde01
Supporter
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 2131 Location: ,
Thanks: 6
Thanked:2
Posted: 08-05-07 18:27pm
haliparot
wrote:
meblonde01
wrote:
Good Point Birch. Not all
people would be good at being a parent..
Taking on a child just for the “cause"
would not be a good idea for people that
had no parenting skills..
I often thought about adopting. But I felt
I was too old so I volunteer at the
children's hospital and only once a month
(it is a 2 hr drive) I volunteer at an
Orphanages. My husband was a single Dad so
I helped him raise his son who was 2 when
I met him and is 23 now. And in his last
year of college. wooo hoooo..
I’m not trying to pat myself on the back
( well yeah, I am! I did a good job with
my step-son) But being pro-life doesn’t
mean you have to adopt to be active in
children’s life that are less
fortunate.
It really isn't like that at all. The
situation posted is a "what if" and I
doubt it will trully happen. The situation
is only described so pro-life people like
yourself will gain more understanding
about the situation.
I believe that if pro-life people are
required to raise one child from the
orphanage, then they will understand the
situation of women who are not ready to
take care of a child financially and
emotionally and yet they are being forced
to carry the pregnancy to term or become a
parent\against her will
I agree to the first poster, if pro-lifers
care so much about their so called "creed"
then why not make this world a better
place by adopting children, helping
people, making other people's life better,
donating financially etc.
I can't believe that people go out of
their ways, so that they can prevent
abortion and yet they don't seem to care
about the "Exisiting life" around them
suffering in their own eyes.
Yet, some of these pro-life conservatives
supports the war. How ironic it is that
they care so obsessed about unborn
fetuses, yet they don't care about
thousands of innocent "ALIVE" children
suffering and dying because of the war.
In some third world countries, over
population causes poverty and yet the
majority of the pro-lifers don't seem to
care that millions of children don't have
food to eat and have the resource to stay
alive, so a lot of them live miserable
lives and die because of poverty.
I believe that if we sum it all up, pro
choicers are even more pro-life than
pro-lifers. Pro-choicers seems to have
more understanding about the life around
them that pro-lifers most of the time
ignore, since they are so pre occupied and
obsessed about saving blobs of cell in
tissue in somebody else'
womb.
It isn’t really like that! Meaning? What
I posted? or it is not what you feel? Or
has nothing to do with what birch said??
(who I was responding to.) Clarify please.
|
Dale123
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 697 Location: Barrie, On Canada
Getting Pregnant Without Even Thinking... Posted: 08-05-07 18:43pm
I think that you should have a licence to
have sex. I think if you don't want
children then use birthcontrol, condoms
and foam! That would eliminate most of the
babies that aren't wanted.
I am prochoice, but I don't think that I
should have to adopt a child if I was pro
life. I don't think I should have to,
because when I am ready I will have my own
children.
I wish people would stop opening there
legs without thinking of the possibility
of having a baby. Its soo stupid.. I have
read so many posts of teens and adults
getting pregnant.. THINKING.. OH NO.. NOW
WHAT.. Must run off to the abortion
clinic.. WHY not think OH NO I CAN'T have
sex I could get pregnant..
I DO NOT think that IF I was pro life I
should have to adopt one of someone elses
baby, because they know they can have a
baby and someone will take there
responsibility.. Probably, wouldn't care
much about the baby, and not take to good
of care of it.
I think of pro choice when I hear that
someone has used condoms foam and
birthcontrol.. OR when someone has been
raped. NOT when someone is too lazy to
take there pills or use a condom. Is it
really worth it?
|
Dale123
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 697 Location: Barrie, On Canada
Posted: 08-05-07 18:47pm
Birch
wrote:
Interesting scenario.
Let me first say I would've fought like
hell against the passage of such a law for
various reasons, including but not limited
to: 1. being forced to report your
political views to the gov't and 2. the
potential of forcing people to be parents
agitates my prochoice philosophy.
Secondly, I am not convinced that just
because someone is prolife means that they
should be obligated to raise someone
else's child. While I do know that
prolife's viewpoints often align with
political views that stunt the advancement
of single mothers into higher economic
brackets and therefore impede their
children, among other things, I would not
support a system that requires people of a
certain political ideology to be
financially bound to something that others
of the opposing viewpoint would inot be.
While I think that prolife people *should*
be more prolife than they are I do not
think we should legislate morality for
them.
I totally agree.. Why should we have to
support someones stupidness?
|
Dale123
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 697 Location: Barrie, On Canada
Posted: 08-05-07 18:49pm
Carifairy
wrote:
There are many kids in the
foster system that NEED adoption.
They will PAY YOU to adopt them...
Unless all you want is a fresh from the
vagina
newborn...
Yeah, I think it's sick that you get
'paid' to adopt these children. IT'S sick,
because some people adopt a whole bunch of
these children for the money and treat
them like caca. I think that a child
shouldn't be forsale.
|
Dale123
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 697 Location: Barrie, On Canada
Re: Getting Pregnant Without Even Thinking... Posted: 08-05-07 18:57pm
[quote="Dale123"]I think that you should
have a licence to have sex. I think if you
don't want children then use birthcontrol,
condoms and foam! That would eliminate
most of the babies that aren't wanted.
I am prochoice, but I don't think that I
should have to adopt a child if I was pro
life. I don't think I should have to,
because when I am ready I will have my own
children.
I wish people would stop opening there
legs without thinking of the possibility
of having a baby. Its soo stupid.. I have
read so many posts of teens and adults
getting pregnant.. THINKING.. OH NO.. NOW
WHAT.. Must run off to the abortion
clinic.. WHY not think OH NO I CAN'T have
sex I could get pregnant..
I DO NOT think that IF I was pro life I
should have to adopt one of someone elses
baby, because they know they can have a
baby and someone will take there
responsibility.. Probably, wouldn't care
much about the baby, and not take to good
of care of whole it's inside of them. Why
should I be obligated to adopt a crack
baby or a baby with FAS
I think of pro choice when I hear that
someone has used condoms foam and
birthcontrol.. OR when someone has been
raped. NOT when someone is too lazy to
take there pills or use a condom. Is it
really worth it?
|
Dale123
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 697 Location: Barrie, On Canada
Posted: 08-05-07 19:22pm
ALL men and woman should have to have an
operation before they start puberty that
makes it so that they can't have children.
After the age of 18 when they are ready
and if they want to have children they
should have to take a parenting course. IF
they PASS the course THEN by law they can
have the operation reversed which inturn
basically gives them the licence to have
children. With this system in place we
could eliminate unwanted`children, control
the population, and slowly get rid of
stupidity because the dumbasses of the
world would never pass the parenting
course.
*People have to get a licence to drive a
car
*people have to have a licence to wed
*people have to have a licence to open a
business
*people have to have a licence to serve
liquor
*people have to have a licence to be a
doctor...
* People have to have a licence to fish
*people have to be old enough to drink(
can have a baby at 14 or younger)
ITS FUNNY SOO MANY MINOR THINGS..YOU
NEEEEEED A LICENCE for and you can bring a
life into the world at ANYTIME? AT
everyones expence? Make sense?
|
haliparot
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 209 Location: San Diego, CA United States
Re: Getting Pregnant Without Even Thinking... Posted: 08-05-07 22:33pm
Dale123
wrote:
I wish people would stop opening there
legs without thinking of the possibility
of having a baby. Its soo stupid.. I have
read so many posts of teens and adults
getting pregnant.. THINKING.. OH NO.. NOW
WHAT.. Must run off to the abortion
clinic.. WHY not think OH NO I CAN'T have
sex I could get pregnant..
What is someone doesn't want to have
children for the rest of her life? What if
I'm 20 years old and I don't want to have
kids ever? Do you mean I shouldn't have
sex forever and keeps my legs closed until
I die?
You said that people who don't want to get
pregnant should use birthcontrol, condom
and foam. What do you mean by the word
brith control? Clarify this because both
condoms and foam are both birth control
also? Do you mean birth control pills?
What if somebody is sensitive to horomones
(which a lot of people are) and can't use
hormonal methods? What if somebody is
senstive to condoms?
Using one or two effective birth control
is enough...
|
haliparot
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 209 Location: San Diego, CA United States
Posted: 08-05-07 22:39pm
[quote="Dale123"]ALL men and woman should
have to have an operation before they
start puberty that makes it so that they
can't have children. After the age of 18
when they are ready and if they want to
have children they should have to take a
parenting course. IF they PASS the course
THEN by law they can have the operation
reversed which inturn basically gives them
the licence to have children. With this
system in place we could eliminate
unwanted`children, control the population,
and slowly get rid of stupidity because
the dumbasses of the world would never
pass the parenting course.
*People have to get a licence to drive a
car
*people have to have a licence to wed
*people have to have a licence to open a
business
*people have to have a licence to serve
liquor
*people have to have a licence to be a
doctor...
* People have to have a licence to fish
*people have to be old enough to drink(
can have a baby at 14 or younger)
It's because deciding to have a family
life is very personal decision. I know you
know what you are saying because to me it
sounds stupid. Having a parenting class
wherein somebody "pass" or "fail" doesn't
sound rational because being a good parent
is impossible to measure and is very
subjective since children are NOT the
same, each parent needs to adjust to
his/her children. Do you know the chaos
this will cause the society if the
government can dictate the people who can
be a parent or not?
And what operation are you talking about
in your first sentence? If you don't know
already almost all states have rules that
only people 18 and above are the ones who
can only consent to have sex. However,
monitoring minors whether they will have
sex or not is completely impossible unless
you want to put them in a guarded
sanctuary.
|
haliparot
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 209 Location: San Diego, CA United States
Posted: 08-05-07 22:40pm
meblonde01
wrote:
haliparot
wrote:
meblonde01
wrote:
Good Point Birch. Not all
people would be good at being a parent..
Taking on a child just for the “cause"
would not be a good idea for people that
had no parenting skills..
I often thought about adopting. But I felt
I was too old so I volunteer at the
children's hospital and only once a month
(it is a 2 hr drive) I volunteer at an
Orphanages. My husband was a single Dad so
I helped him raise his son who was 2 when
I met him and is 23 now. And in his last
year of college. wooo hoooo..
I’m not trying to pat myself on the back
( well yeah, I am! I did a good job with
my step-son) But being pro-life doesn’t
mean you have to adopt to be active in
children’s life that are less
fortunate.
It really isn't like that at all. The
situation posted is a "what if" and I
doubt it will trully happen. The situation
is only described so pro-life people like
yourself will gain more understanding
about the situation.
I believe that if pro-life people are
required to raise one child from the
orphanage, then they will understand the
situation of women who are not ready to
take care of a child financially and
emotionally and yet they are being forced
to carry the pregnancy to term or become a
parent\against her will
I agree to the first poster, if pro-lifers
care so much about their so called "creed"
then why not make this world a better
place by adopting children, helping
people, making other people's life better,
donating financially etc.
I can't believe that people go out of
their ways, so that they can prevent
abortion and yet they don't seem to care
about the "Exisiting life" around them
suffering in their own eyes.
Yet, some of these pro-life conservatives
supports the war. How ironic it is that
they care so obsessed about unborn
fetuses, yet they don't care about
thousands of innocent "ALIVE" children
suffering and dying because of the war.
In some third world countries, over
population causes poverty and yet the
majority of the pro-lifers don't seem to
care that millions of children don't have
food to eat and have the resource to stay
alive, so a lot of them live miserable
lives and die because of poverty.
I believe that if we sum it all up, pro
choicers are even more pro-life than
pro-lifers. Pro-choicers seems to have
more understanding about the life around
them that pro-lifers most of the time
ignore, since they are so pre occupied and
obsessed about saving blobs of cell in
tissue in somebody else'
womb.
It isn’t really like that! Meaning? What
I posted? or it is not what you feel? Or
has nothing to do with what birch said??
(who I was responding to.) Clarify
please.
um sorry..this is partly for you and for
everybody..
|
Dale123
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 697 Location: Barrie, On Canada
Posted: 08-05-07 23:06pm
[quote="haliparot"]
Dale123
wrote:
ALL men and woman should
have to have an operation before they
start puberty that makes it so that they
can't have children. After the age of 18
when they are ready and if they want to
have children they should have to take a
parenting course. IF they PASS the course
THEN by law they can have the operation
reversed which inturn basically gives them
the licence to have children. With this
system in place we could eliminate
unwanted`children, control the population,
and slowly get rid of stupidity because
the dumbasses of the world would never
pass the parenting course.
*People have to get a licence to drive a
car
*people have to have a licence to wed
*people have to have a licence to open a
business
*people have to have a licence to serve
liquor
*people have to have a licence to be a
doctor...
* People have to have a licence to fish
*people have to be old enough to drink(
can have a baby at 14 or younger)
It's because deciding to have a family
life is very personal decision. I know you
know what you are saying because to me it
sounds stupid. Having a parenting class
wherein somebody "pass" or "fail" doesn't
sound rational because being a good parent
is impossible to measure and is very
subjective since children are NOT the
same, each parent needs to adjust to
his/her children. Do you know the chaos
this will cause the society if the
government can dictate the people who can
be a parent or not?
And what operation are you talking about
in your first sentence? If you don't know
already almost all states have rules that
only people 18 and above are the ones who
can only consent to have sex. However,
monitoring minors whether they will have
sex or not is completely impossible unless
you want to put them in a guarded
sanctuary.
Not a guarded sanctuary.. LOL if you read
what I wrote. I wrote about getting an
operation before they can have children..I
think that it's great that it's been
allowed to be a personal decision. I
wished as a teen it could be a personal
choice to drink at any age. Go fishing
without paying. Get married without a
licence.. HOWEVER, I couldn't because all
of these things.. I needed a licence. NOW,
I want to start my own business, but I
have to have a licence. Starting my
business is also a very personal choice.
HOWEVER, its regulated.. Like a building
permit too. When I built a deck in the
summer an inspector came along and OKed it
for my safety. So, it didn't have to be
torn down. I think a childs life and
safety should be as important. I really
think 'people should be inspected before
they have children.. This is much more
important than many other licences.
THEN taking a course. It's funny NO two
children are the same, but I do know what
to expect with each age group, and its
funny how similar they are. Babies: VERY
SENSORY STAGE how to harvest that
interest. TODDLERS IE Toddlers are very
egocentric and think that everything is
'mine' toddlers are also known for biting.
These are just little examples if you want
I can go into detail from 0 to 12 years
told. I will tell you every age stage and
developmental milestone.
I educate people (usually older and
younger more mature) on caring for there
infants. They learn alot. When I say more
mature. I mean mature enough to make the
choice to have a baby also to find help
from someone who knows about infancy
through adolescence. There is so much to
know. IE developmental psychology,
cognitive development, educational
studies, family studies, language and
literacy, children with special needs,
mile stones, communication and this is
big.. I teach parents how to communicate
with there infant. I teach them sign
language. Most babies mouths aren't formed
to say words however they can tell you
what they want through sign. It helps.
brain connections.. What types of foods
help your child with development. What you
can give your baby to eat at which age and
what to look for with an allergic
reaction. How to work with your child in
all sorts of areas of need. ALSO on
tempers! LOL thats a big one! Also, I
teach people how to redirect there
children using there words everyday.
However, I grew up being hit when I was
misunderstood.. IN all of my years of
teaching I have never HIT or hurt a child
in anyway this will include my own
children.
Anyway, I am going to bed it's after
midnight and my boyfriend is calling me! I
am soo tired. I will edit in the morning.
|
Jules
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3795 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
Thanks: 87
Thanked:70
Posted: 08-06-07 01:33am
Interesting idea...
I think an amendment should be made though
that all those who claim to be pro-choice
should be made to personally assist with
an elective abortion every year.
Preferably a later tem one so they can see
the body parts. Bit fairer then
Now I'm sure many on here will say, "Sure,
I can do that!" but you can bet your
backside that most people would not like
to 'bloody their hands', both
metaphorically and literally. It's just
as wrong to enforce someone to assist in
abortion as it is to enforce adoption on
someone, regardless of their beliefs.
Besides, I thought pro-choice were about
freedom of choice?
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milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
Posted: 08-06-07 07:07am
such nonsense.
I dont do "what if's"
And who are you to speak for me.
What if people were responsible for their
actions. And what if everyone had high
morals like myself. And what if everyone
valued ALL human life like me. What if.
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Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 142
Thanked:13
Posted: 08-06-07 09:54am
Jules
wrote:
Besides, I thought pro-choice were about
freedom of
choice?
This seems to get tossed by the wayside
quite frequently. I think certain
prochoice people forget what that
means-it's not just one side of the
tracks.
