Cornfields of Ohio?? hmmmmm
the National Rifle and Pistol Matches are
being held there right now at Camp Perry
right on Lake Erie near Port Clinton. Ohio
is a nice state with lots of farms as I
recall. according to the LSI chart that
has a front and back view of a person, the
chart has color pathways showing which
nerveway's effect different parts of the
body. The nerve that handles the pinky and
left side of the hand is C8. Apparently
more important woes were in C6 C7 as C8
was never touched...unless clearing the
problem in C7 also made room in C8. I am
not a Dr. I told everyone and I mean
everyone there that the left hand was numb
on left side. I guess the money wasn't
enough for C8 or they figured the others
C's were more important at the time.
Perhaps there is more success with C6 and
C7...I just don't know. They never said a
word about C8 or never mentioned another
operation. As far as education yourself
about what Dr's do, thats Ok up to a
point. They are going to do what they
think is best despite. I think my problem
with the left handside is C8 according to
everything I have read. Its NOT Coral
Tunnel Syndrome. I simply put all my trust
to the pros at LSI as Marie said and let
them handle everything like she said a
lamb being led. That was exactly correct.
Asking too many questions can turn a Dr or
anyone off to the point they may be afraid
to operate on you. You have to trust
someone in these situations and a world
famed Dr ST Louis (I found out he has
world fame) is a great person to trust.
LSI is dead set against fusions as they
cause problems down the road. Any other
back surgery is invasive and theirs is
un-invasive hence the quicker healing
time. I even saw www.youtube.com LSI
segment. type in laser spine institute and
several places come up. Interesting.
Everyone has to make their own decision of
such a serious thing. I agree the price is
super high at LSI but look at it this
way...its the price a car if things don't
workout you bought a lemon. Nothing is
guaranteed in any surgery anywhere but
again 92 percent success rate. Better to
have tried and failed than to wonder the
rest of your life if only I had the LSI
surgery. Look at it this way, in an hour
or two on the operating table you can be
fixed despite years of suffering some have
been through. It simply works for many
folks so far. You really do get your life
back. The 8 percent it does not work I
feel sorry for and maybe technolgy will
come along that will in the
future.
On this post, all I can say is you had all
the red flags waving in your face and you
ignored them.
You claim you told them that your left
hand was numb on the left side and they
ignored you.
Well any doctor that ignores your verbal
statements of symptoms is not a doctor to
use, That's the doctor you run for your
life from.
MRI pics are only a small tool of
information in the full picture of
diagnosing and properly treating the
issues that a spinal patient presents
with.
A good, qualified spinal surgeon will take
those MRI films, look at them and then
proceed to examine and match the symptoms
to the MRI pics for proper treatment.
Since you made sure that LSI knew that you
only had $30,000 for the surgery, you are
right, you got what you paid for but not
the proper and full care that you needed.
Not what one would consider appropriate
medical care.
By the way there is success at all
vertebral levels for surgery.
Doctors are not going to do only what they
think is best, a good doctor is going to
give you his opinion on what he thinks is
best, explain why he thinks the way he
does and it is up to you to make the
decision to go ahead with the opinion. No
good doctor will ignore the symptoms that
the patient presents with, all of the
symptoms.
That is, unless, money in the doctors
pocket is the only real issue going on.
If asking too many questions turns a
doctor off to not providing care and
afraid to operate on you, then that doctor
is not one that anyone should use.
A good doctor not only wants a well
informed patient, but he/she wants the
patient to understand everything that is
said and going on.
If truth be told, the doctor works for
you, and if you are afraid to ask
questions, not satisfied with the answers
and get brushed off with more, then that
is a doctor that you should run away from
as fast as you can.
You should never have allowed the doctors
at LSI to ignore what you said and if they
refused to address your symptoms, all of
them, that is the red flag to get up and
run for your life.
You do have to have trust in someone, but
the trust has to be with well informed
information and all issues addressed, not
symptoms ignored and brushed under the
table.
Nothing is guaranteed with any type of
surgery, but any facility that claims a
92% success rate and ignores information
on the other 8% is not providing people
with the facts.
And how do they know they have that high a
sucess rate? they don't do any follow ups
at any point post op. How are their
claimed 92% success rate doing in 1 year,
2 years, 5 years?
How do we know that the people they have
listed to call and give testimonials are
real people or just paid to say what they
do?
You be they are dead set against fusions
of any kind. They can't do them,can they?
That is serious business with fusion
surgeries and they take a very skilled and
experienced, well trained spinal surgeon
to do them and they have absolutley no
hospital affiliations with any hospital in
Florida either.
They can't make $30,000 a pop for a quick
fix surgery by doing fusions either and
shove you out the door in a couple of days
with no further contact with you. they
did their thing and you are on your own
now.
How you can compare major spinal surgery
to the purchase of a car is just beyond my
understanding.
Just in case you didn't realize it, if you
buy a $30,000 car and it is a lemon, you
have various legal recourses to utilize to
have something done about your car. What
recourse do you have if LSI screws up? if
what they do for your surgery make things
worse, not better?
They took your cash in hand up front
before you had your surgery, did you sign
paperwork that you agree not to sue them?
The last thing in the world I would do is
compare my health of any kind, medical
conditions, surgery, poential surgery and
expense to buying a car for the same
amount of money that it cost me have
Surgery.
And those 8% that LSI claim that can't
help and you feel sorry for. Well those
8% are far better off having not gone to
LSI.
One other question I have, what would LSI
have done or been able to do if I had had
my surgery with them and instead of the
surgery turning out as it had and my disc
was OK, had they found after the fact,
that my disc was uselss and there was
nothing they could do with it?
the would have left me with no disc with
the vertebrae and have left me in
horrendous pain post op, taken my money
for surgery they couldn't do correctly and
I would have ended up seeking medical help
through the conventional route with a
spinal surgeon and ended up with a fusion.
I was lucky
1. my disc turned out to be only badly
compressed and not damaged and the MRI
didn't show all that was going on until
the doctor got in there to visually see.
2. I was with a conventional spine
surgeon and had the need arisen, a fusion
would have been performed right at that
time, saving me from not only going though
a horror experience before having the
fusion done.
3. I wouldn't be out $30,000 or more,
because i had far more done to me than you
did Ratter, and would have the appropriate
medical care and surgery done the first
time.
Those are serious things to think about
before spending that kind of money at LSI
or any laser facility.
All the tests in the world are only that,
tests. Nothing is 100% seen until the
surgeons eyes are fully on the surgical
site and can visually see all that is
going on.
Not only that, but not everything can be
fully determined until surgery is underway
and progressing.
I want to be in a hospital facility and in
the hands of a surgeon that is not only
well experienced and skilled, but is
capable of handling any and all unforseen
possibilities in the event something
happens or is found that was not
expected.
Fran
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littleonefb
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LSI Posted: 07-17-08 16:07pm
Ratter,
we can go round and round with this
forever. You have a site to go to with
successful LSI surgeries. Their own
website is full of them.
And herein lies a problem for me. Never
have i seen any facility advertise their
own testimonials and do so, all over the
web as LSI does. Even more so than Bonati
or any other laser spine facility.
Anytime you google something about spinal
issues LSI pops up with their site, their
advertising and everything else about
them.
Just about every spine forum has them
advertising and people from LSI posting on
the stie to contact them to answer
questions and/or people representing them
posting the praises of LSI.
The problem is no where on the web can you
get unbiased, peer reviewed information on
them, on their success rate, but rather
just themselves praising themselves.
Your idea of separate sites, separate
forums is interesting. That would set up
nothing more than fully biased sites on
one side or the other.
Is there too much info here on either
side? maybe. but those of us, including
myself and Marie B, who do not support
laser spine surgery, are providing the
very important and valuable con side of
laser spine surgery.
If one wants to make an informed decision,
then one must hear both sides of the
story, weigh both the pros and cons before
making a decision.
If only one side of the story is heard,
then you are unable to make any kind of
intelligent and informed decsion.
Is LSI a scam? In my opinion I believe it
very well might be. At best i see it as a
very risky quick fix for a serious problem
with a spine that ivolves questionable
methods of surgery that have not been
properly peer reviewed, because the laser
spine facilities refuse to do that.
There methods of getting you into the
facility pray on people that are
vulnerable and in acute pain, and the
websites are about as slick as you can get
and promise the world to their customers.
Promises that I've seen far too many times
where a fake and not true.
In a little over 2 years of having spinal
problems, I have met and talked with over
75 people in my spinal surgeons office
alone, who went for the quick fix at LSI,
Bonati and other laser facilities and all
had quick fix results that lasted anywhere
from 6 months to 2 years and then they are
in disasterous shape. They require far
more surgery post laser spine surgery than
they ever would have needed had they gone
the conventional route.
I've heard more horror stories about
repeated surgeries, at different levels
done at LSI and other laser spine
facilities to attempt to correct the spine
issue that didnt' work the first time and
just making patients worse and worse.
I've seen more patients with collapsed
spines from what LSI and others have done
than I care to think about. All afraid of
conventional spine surgery and end up with
far more complicated spinal surgery
because of the disasters created by these
places than they would have had, had they
gone the conventional route to start
with.
All from patients sitting in the waiting
room of my spinal surgeon's offce and all
grateful that they found him, because he
and his associates are one of the very few
that will do their best to correct that
damage done by the laser facilities.
My hear always goes out to them because of
what they have gone through and going
through now.
I understand it as well because I too was
afraid of conventional spine surgery and
searched for alternatives myself. Even
looked into LSI and Bonati and the info I
got was nothing more than disasterous and
wrong in my diagnosis as well as the
absurdity of their charges and the risks
of doing spinal surgery the way the did.
Not liking what one sees in conventional
spine surgery is an interesting statement,
not sure what it means. What one needs to
remember is that when one goes to a spine
forum, one needs to really understand what
kind of site it is.
It may appear that everyone on the site
has serious spinal problems, failled
spinal surgeries etc. What aren't seeing
in sites like that is all the success
stories. The majority of people that are
successful spine surgery outcomes, leave
the site and posting because they have
their life back and go on with it. they
don't come back to post anymore because
they don't have time.
I was MIA from this site for quite some
time, busy with life and going on, I"d
pop back in now and then and make an
occassional post and then a new problem
occured do to a freak accident and you
found me here more often. For right now
my ability to do things is quite limited
as I recover again and I am here and
reading many different posts and forums.
If i wasn't recovering, I would no doubt
be MIA again and out in my gardens working
there all the time.
There are many doubts about the success of
LSI and all the laser spine facilities.
Legit questions and concerns. And yes,
there are certainly many, many questions
about their claims and success rates.
No where do you see and here about the
failures, other than some minute
percentage. No where do you hear about
follow up years down the road. They
measure success by way of how you are when
you leave, not how you are months later
and if you aren't a success, then you are
on your own.
Just because they pull in "a quarter of a
million dollars a day and probably more"
doesn't make them a good facility. It
only shows that they know how to get
people there to fork up $30,000 a surgery
and at that figure they must be doing at
least 80 or more surgeries a day.
By my standards that's assembly line
surgery, more in line with how flu shots
are given out on scheduled flu shot dates.
one patient right after the other in a
line.
And with that number of surgeries per day,
I would be concerned with the doctors
ability to concentrate from one patient to
the next, know what he is doing with each
patient and how well rested he is.
Until I see hard data that shows peer
reviewed, accepted proof that laser spine
surgery is really better than conventional
spine surgery, you will not find me a
supporter of laser spine surgery or any
laser spine facility.
I find too many cons to it, to many risks
and an appearance of some kind of
secretive attempt to con the public into
falling for handing over their hard earned
money for a quick fix and long term poor
results.
There is an old saying "when it sounds too
good to be true, it probably is". that is
how I see LSI and all the laser spine
facilities. slick advertising, not part
of ins, money up front, pressure to have
surgery or forget it, huge expense that
isn't a legit charge for what they do,
taking advantage of those in pain.
Glad to read you will be checking out to
see if your symptoms really are spine
related. I wouldn't, if I where you,
return to LSI for further surgery after
they ignored your statements and symptoms
the first time though.
Waiting to long could result and
ireversible nerve damage though, better to
move now and have it taken care of before
it worsens and spreads the nerve damage.
Fran
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littleonefb
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
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Re: LSI Posted: 07-18-08 13:09pm
ratter
wrote:
OK you win. But its water
under the bridge now the money is gone.
The car thing was an anology. I don't know
what I will do if anything like this crops
up again. I called my HMO Dr today as you
urged and he said about my hand, on the
phone, he said its Arthritis, don't worry
about it and once again told me to use the
Aspercream. I then called the Orthpedic
surgeon and he won't be back till next
week. He only goes to the facility twice a
week. These are India Dr's if that means
anything. This is why I get so discusted
and want nothing to do with Dr's. The only
thing that HMO Orthopedic Surgeon probably
will say is even if he looks at me, is
live with it or you need another operation
and I am not going that route again unless
the pain becomes non stop and severe. I'm
screwed no matter how I go. But right now
getting by but will attempt one more call
to the Orthopedic surgeon monday. Probably
will be brushed off but I will try one
last time. So much for good living, I
NEVER drank, smoked, took drugs, led a
clean life, eat vegi's every day, salad
every day, drink milk, am over weight
however a little. I do not even drink
beer. The whole thing stinks. Fran, I am
positive the problem is C8, why they never
adressed it is beyond me except the other
C6 C7 needed more attention and thats a
guess. Let you know what he says IF he
even talks to me. I also called LSI up
again and they said as before, she looked
up my case on the computer which has
everything (film and info MRI copies and
xray) and said the operation they did has
NOTHING to do with the new problem and
urged me once again to see a Dr. up here
Thats the
latest.
Ratter,
I never meant this to be a game and one of
us would win and the other would lose. It
was meant as a factual understanding and
for you to respond to your body's symptoms
and take action to determine what is going
on with your symptoms.
It is quite possible that the problem with
your hand is, in fact, arthritis. It is
also equally possible that it isn' and
numbness as you describe is not part of
arthritis.
The orthopedic surgeon you called, I hope
is a specialist in spinal surgery and not
just a general orthopedic doctor.
You need to be seen by an orthopedi
surgeon that specializes only in spines or
a neurosurgeon who specializes in spines.
If this orthopedic doctor isn't one of
these you must advocate for yourself and
fight for a referral to a specialist that
only treats spines.
You are a spinal patient, regardless of
where you had your surgery and that alone,
is enough to demand that you have a
referral to and see a spine specialist
ASAP.
Your symptoms are that of spinal issues
and require investigation, a new MRI and
they need to be done right away.
Ignoring the numbness, which is a nerve
problem, will result in permanent nerve
damage and will eventually cause pain and
limitations to use of your arm. If
something can be done to prevent that,
than it should be done, and it may be able
to be done with conservative measures such
as steroid epidural injections, nerve
blocks and/or physical therapy.
What needs to be done is to find the root
cause of the problem and that needs to be
done with MRI and a spinal surgeon.
Interesting the response of LSI. They are
correct that your new symptoms where not
caused by their surgery. They didnt' do
anything to the area that is presenting
with a problem, they ignored it and what
you said.
I wonder though, if the reason they are
telling you to see a doctor where you are,
is because they didn't do anything to help
you with the problem's you where
complaining about and now see you as "a
failed surgery" from their facilty and
don't want anything to do with you. Also
if you had them remove your name from
their contact list, and then you called
about this problem, they are not willing
to talk to you or treat you because of
that as well.
In otherwords, you where willing to sing
their praises to anyone and everyone that
called you. Now you want your name
removed from that list and you are calling
them about the surgery that they already
did on you and questioning them about the
new problems and the problems that are
still there and they ignored.
Could be that they are not pleased with
you now, hence the response.
Do not let the orthopedic or any doctor
brush you off. This is your life, your
body and you have the right to the proper
medical care. Demand tht you get a
referral to a spine specialist and a
referral for a new MRI. Get a copy of the
MRI report and a copy of the MRI pics as
well. It is your right and your legal
right to have those.
If you get no satisfaction with a
referral, then you proceed up the later
with complaints to higher level people
that run the HMO.
You have many, many recourses if you don't
get the satsifaction that you rightly
deserve.
As for a healthy living style. That is a
good way to go, but when it comes to
spines, it is more like luck of the draw.
Spine problems can be caused from a
particular line of work, bad genetics, and
just plain bad luck.
There is no explanation for the problems
that required surgery for me the first
time. No one is my family has spinal
problems except for me. and I am the same
as you with the healthy living style.
It's just the way life goes sometimes.
But that healthy living style will help
you with other aspects of your life and
with healing from spinal issues as well.
Good luck and I don't believe the problem
is with where the doctors are from. Many
excellent doctors originated from another
country. At the same time, there are good
doctors and bad doctors everywhere.
Fran
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littleonefb
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
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Re: UPdate Posted: 07-22-08 10:43am
ratter
wrote:
Spoke to HMO Orthapedic
surgeon who IS a specialist on the back
and said it surely is Arthritis in hand or
C8 connected like I surmised on my own and
asked if I wanted to go through a battery
of tests again, I said no, he then said if
needed, do you want another operation, I
said never ever again unless in non stop
pain then he asked about how I was doing
from my LSI visit (he remembered) and I
said no pain almost 2 years and he said
that's good and I was very lucky. Then
said why did I contact him? and I said I
was just wondering about the hand/finger
cramping up and again he said it was
Arthritis most likely. That was that.
Fran after much much thought and
re-reading your excellent replies, I have
decided that if the need ever arose again,
and I have the funds, I would still go
back to LSI. I hope you are doing well
with your recovery
also.
It's good that you have spoken with the
orthopedic spine surgeon about you
situation and it is true that it could be
arthritis and/or spine connected.
It would behoove you to have an MRI to
determine if it is from what you suspect
C8, as well as to determine if arthritis
is involved as well.
By doing so, you will at least know for
sure if it is one or the other or both.
If it is both, one will play off the other
and continue to worsen and compound your
medical situation.
The spine surgeon is correct that you are
lucky that things are going as well as
they are after your surgery at LSI.
Waiting and doing nothing about the
numbness is not a smart move though. By
waiting you only risk further problems
with nerves that can and at some point
will become permanent in nature and
debilitate you further. Waiting for pain
to develop, which I'm betting it will, is
an even bigger mistake.
As for returning to LSI for further
treatment, if necessary.
Well they always have their hand out for
another $30,000 from any patient willing
to turn it over to them out of the
patient's pocket, plus the cost to and
from their facility, hotel fees and food
while there.
On the other hand, your decision to remove
your name from their list of testimonials,
may or may not make you a welcome return
customer.
Those choices are yours to make and the
risks of complications from waiting are
yours as well to make.
I hope that if/when you decide to seek
treatment, it isn't too late for you and
you spend the rest of your life suffering
and regretting not doing something about
your situation sooner.
Thank you for your good wishes with my
recovery. It is going well, slower than I
would like, but that is the way it is with
most patients.
At the same time, my doctor tells me that
I am at least 2 weeks further along in
recovery than what would be expected and
that is a good sign.
Fran
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CarolDiane
Moderator
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Laser Spine Surgery Posted: 07-23-08 11:32am
Please, everyone has their own opinions.
And those opinions should not be forced on
someone else. You can agree to disagree,
but IMHO this is getting a little out of
hand. Can we get to the topic that was
started please.
Thanks,
Carrie
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littleonefb
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Post Op Update Posted: 08-02-08 23:03pm
Hello All,
I'm so sorry that I haven't posted since
my first post op visit to my spine
surgeon. So let me update from that
point.
I had my second post op visit with my
spine surgeon on July 14th. Both of us
where quite pleased at how well the
ibuprofen was working to alleviate the
massive inflammation in the muscles that I
was having.
It was amazing to see how well I could
move and walk with just one week on the
high dose; 600mg every 12 hours.
It was a pain trying to figure out the
best times to take it though, and being
that I also suffer from IBS (irritable
bowel syndrome), I have to take any meds
with a fair amount of food in my stomach.
I ended up with 12:30PM and 12:30AM as the
best times. Lunch time was fine, but Oh
that AM dose. Eating a double serving of
cereal with milk and a large glass of milk
when all I wanted to do was go to bed was
not fun. And then i had to stay up for at
least an hour with that food in my stomach
before going to bed.
It was worth it though to end up with very
little pain.
I told the doctor that the worst time was
getting out of bed in the morning and I
still needed my hubby to hold on to to get
up, but once I was up and moving it was
really very tolerable discomfort to deal
with.
I told him I figured that it was the old,
half dead mattress that wasn't helping,
but wanted to wait till I healed enough
from surgery and finished PT to try out
new ones to be sure they where
comfortable.
He told me that more than likely the
mattress only had a small part in the
difficulty and that it was the
inflammation causing the problem.
He explained that when all of us stay in
one position for any length of time,
lactic acid builds up in the muscles which
is normal. But, when the muscles are
inflamed and healing from surgery as well,
there is a huge increase in the amount of
lactic acid that builds up in the affected
muscles and that causes the pain. Once
you start moving again, the lactic acid
decreases and the problem resolves.
Once I start moving much more during the
day and the muscles get used to moving
again, the problem will quickly decrease
to a far more normal level and eventually
vanish.
So,knowing that was normal did make me
feel better.
Then I told him that I have a far bigger
concern now. He just looked at me and
rolled his eyes, and said "do I want to
hear this? Can we do something about
it?"
I told him "sure you want to hear it and
yes "we" can fix it, only if you do what I
want."
Before he had a chance to say anything I
just told him that I need a cane for now
to feel safe walking outside.
I told him I was fine in the house because
the area was small to walk in and if I
started to feel unstable I could grab on
to a wall or furniture etc. for support,
but walking around outside was a problem
after about 5 minutes or so and I need
someone to hang on to or I was going to
topple over and that was not a good idea
to land on the ground.
All I can say is thank goodness I am with
the spine doctor I am with and he is in a
huge practice that deals with every
orthopedic situation with all the doctors
right there, because he wasn't pleased
with the cane idea.
Since I have very weak tendons in both
arms from botched tendon surgery that
should never have been done in 2003, he
had a huge concern about me using a cane
and putting weight on the arms. The
potential for tearing the tendons in
either arm is very high. He refused to OK
the cane without talking with my arm and
hand ortho.
So now i was the one with the
rolling eyes. and said "so fine, do you
get him in here with us or should I?"
We got the arm ortho in the exam room and
he just looked at all of us and said "are
you out of your mind? Do you want to go
backwards and tear the tendons this time
for real? Do you want a repeat of 2 years
in OT to get the use of your arms back
again? and he started to
roll his eyes.
So spine doc tells me to explain the
problem and what I want. He listened and
still was not a happy camper, believe me.
So I just simply said, "would one or both
of you wonderful, kind, caring, concerned
doctors please explain to me how in the
world I am going to rehab from this
surgery then? I can't afford to have
someone with me at all times to walk
outside, my hubby has to go back to work
this week, I can't have someone with me
all day when he is not around and I have
to walk outside too. So unless either of
you have a better idea, what else can I do
but use a cane?"
There was dead silence from both docs.
Then arm doc said "do you realize the risk
you are taking with your arms?" and I
said "yup, and I also realize the bigger
risk if I don't use the cane and get my
butt up off the chair for longer than I'm
doing. Besides, until I'm allowed to go
to PT and start real rehab, and this
stubborn spine doc has said no, so far, I
better get moving one way or another
before I get blood clots and shoot one to
my lungs or heart and my muscles get so
stiff I may never be able to fully
rehab."
Talk about "if looks could kill, I'd be
dead" from the spine doc and I just
grinned and said "you aren't the only one
that can play smart ass."
When I still didn't get the cane OK I
finally told them that my best friend, the
nurse and I had already come up with a
plan for using the cane with the least
risk and either they OK'd it for me or I
did it anyways.
Both docs tried to protest, but I just
told them the plan.
Cane would be used for no more than 10
minutes with one hand. Then i would sit
and rest for 15 minutes and then use the
cane with the other hand for no more than
10 minutes and rest for a couple of hours.
I would give my arms, wrist and hands
their good solid stretches like I always
do before the first arm is used. During
the 15 minute rest I would do the brief
stretches and start and if I found no
problems with my arms after 3 days of
doing this, i would slowly increase the
time using the cane but no more than a
total of 30 minutes with each arm.
Arm doc thought about it for a couple of
minutes and decided it was a perfect plan
under the circumstances as everything I
had said was the truth and he did believe
me that I never wanted to have to see him
again with any serious problems with my
arms and the tendons and it has close to 2
years without a problem because I do
everything I am supposed to do with them
and have not screwed it up.
Then I got the OK to start PT with an
evaluation the following week with the PT
and start PT the week after that.
He formally turned his authority over to
the physical therapist and told me "she's
the new boss, she has the say and she will
have to deal with you and your complaints
that recovery is going to slow and all
that jazz"
Next appointment for post op visit is
August 25th.
Will do another post about PT
Fran
|
CarolDiane
Moderator
Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 2392 Location: ,
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Hey Fran Posted: 08-02-08 23:17pm
What a nightmare it must be for you. I can
really empathize with you Fran. After
being in CCU with double pnuemonia and on
the ventalator with no PT for 16 day and
try and get up with a walker. Give me a
break. Down ya go. I had no darn ankles to
keep me up.
I am praying for you Fran. This has been a
hard road for you and I just wanted to let
you know that I have been keep tabs on ya.
I don't make it down here enough and I
have to start right now. After all, I am a
spiney too.
Carrie
|
littleonefb
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Aug 2007 Posts: 221 Location: ,
Thanks: 6
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online
PT Evaluation and How it is Going Posted: 08-02-08 23:38pm
for PT and my PT.
She is wonderful and I just love going to
PT. Yup, I see the flicker of the light
at the end of the tunnel.
The PT evaluation was done and to my
surprise, the things that I thought where
worse are not as bad as I thought, and the
things that I thought where not as bad are
worse than I thought.
So much for what I know, but without
question I have weak muscles, tendons and
ligaments all over the place and I didn't
need anyone to tell me that.
Anyways, she did tell me that it is going
to be a long haul, but not sure how long
as it depends on how my body responds and
how "the trickle down effect works".
In other words, we have to start at the
top, IE the cores and get them moving and
strengthened first. As we do that, it
will start to strengthen the muscles in my
thighs both front and back. That will
help help keep the patella on my right
knee stable. By doing that it will ease
the pressure and pull on the right
achilles tendon that has a tendonitis in
it and in turn help out both feet.
The question is how long it will take.
Since there is still inflammation in the
muscles, especially on either side of the
incision that I didn't have with the first
surgery, we are using something called a
heat electrical stimulation on those
muscles for about 10 minutes with the
"wave pulses" going as soon as I get there
for my appointment.
And I can feel the pain and discomfort
start to ease within a minute.
This type of treatment is similar to the
tens unit that many patients use for
muscle pain at home.
I'm a firm believer in that kind of
treatment to ease pain as I was in a post
op study back in the early 80's on its
affectiveness to treat post op pain after
having my gallbladder removed with the old
fashioned gallbladder surgery. After
being assured that if it did not provide
me with adequate post op pain I would be
given meds for the pain, I agreed to give
it a try.
Wow was I amazed that it was so affective
for that pain and it cut down my meds by
almost 50% in the first 12 hours post op.
Believe me that is no fun surgery to have.
It's a 5-6 inch incision in the middriff
and just trying to breath post op is all
but intolerable. Without even thinking
about it, you just automatically try not
to breath. I was quite pleased with the
results and went home with a portable one
to use for several months as it can take
several months to be able to breath
without pain. It cut my pain meds at home
by 50% as well.
Anyways, after this moist stim is done,
it's on to about 5 minutes of ultrasound
and then message to keep the muscles loose
around the incision and keep the incision
from building up scar tissue and staying
hard.
Then it's a few simple stretches to start
and that's the difficult part. They are
the same ones that I did the last time, so
I know them well and have to be careful
that I don't "play smart ass" with them
and really carefully do them. Trust me,
my PT is right there making sure I do them
correctly every time.
The amazing thing to me is how quickly the
body responds to this treatment.
I walked in to my first PT visit (not the
evaluation) with a simple pain number of
5-6 and an hour later walked out of there
with a 3. and to top that off, my knee
was starting to feel "weird" something
like I knew it wasn't right and it sort of
felt like it was going to start to hurt.
When I left the knee felt fine too.
My second visit, i was all smiles. I
hadn't felt this good, with so little pain
in 9 months. It was almost a creepy
feeling and I was able to get out of bed
without any pain in between visits.
I had the same treatment and felt good
then too.
I've only gone twice for PT, go twice a
week but am very pleased with the quick
progress. I know from experience that
there will be quick spirts of recovery and
then plateaus as well, and know it will
take time to recovery, but things are
going in the right direction and there is
a light that I can see at the end of the
tunnel.
I'm still using the cane when outside,
still restricted by the doctor and PT as
to what I can do.
I can bend to the level of a coffee table,
get up and down from sitting properly now,
not that keep the spine super straight
bit, can walk on the lawns for brief
periods and water my plants and I can turn
and twist a bit.
BUT
no bending down to the ground.
no stooping to the ground
no picking up anything off the floor or
ground.
no travel in the car anywhere but the docs
office and the PT
no shopping of any kind, which doesn't
make hubby happy as he has to still get
the groceries until I see the doc the end
of Aug.
and when I have someone with me, I should
try to go without the cane for a bit
outside, but have that person right beside
me with the cane, just incase i need to
grab onto my "silver friend" and go sit
down.
I tried that on friday and managed about
10 minutes before I needed the cane to go
sit down. I did feel more stable on my
legs, my right leg felt far more stable
than it has been, but far from perfect.
And of course the PT has a list of all the
goals I want to accomplish in rehab
besides my "infamous, I want my life
back". That's not an acceptable answer at
this PT facility. So I had to list
everything I want, starting with the most
immediate things, simple things.
And so far, I've almost accomplished the
first one. Being able to shower and wash
my hair alone without any help or anyone
in the bathroom with me.
I'm 3/4 of the way there. Last night got
the shower and shampoo without help, dried
off without help too, got in the shower
alone, but needed hubby's hand to get out
and just not confident enough to be in
there alone yet.
Last week, I couldn't do any of that.
So progress is being made, slow but
getting there, and will keep you all
posted on how the progress is going.
Thanks for all your concern, it's much
appreciated.
Fran
|
CarolDiane
Moderator
Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 2392 Location: ,
Thanks: 111
Thanked:156
Fran Posted: 08-03-08 02:31am
Now this is wonderful news fair lady. I
see so much more brightness in your eyes
even from cyberspace now. It shows all
over you. You have no idea how happy I am
for you. Just know that we are here for
you Fran. Even if I just popped in out of
knowhere. I know about your surgery all
along. A little bird told me.
Stay safe and kept the faith and the good
progress. And don't get to ansey on us now
and go out dancing.
Hugs,
Carrie
|
RichT
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Posts: 910
Thanks: 21
Thanked:0
Posted: 08-03-08 09:15am
Hello Fran,
Thanks for your great updates. I'd like
to be a little mouse when you and your doc
are "chatting". LOL
Super that your PT is helping. Progress
is happening and as Carrie so will put it
"I see so much more brightness in your
eyes." Yep, it is coming through.
Fran, it has been four months since my
last epidural injection. It is wearing
off a bit, so may not be long before the
ole body is ready for another. I know in
one of your posts you are concerned about
the effect of the corticosteroid on one's
K level. You said something about having
the level checked before the injection and
then again was it two weeks after the
injection to have the K level checked
again. Would you please refresh this ole
lazy mind? Thanks
Take care and do keep us informed of your
progress. Your detail helps me to
understand what I too may face in the
future.
RichT
|
littleonefb
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Aug 2007 Posts: 221 Location: ,
Thanks: 6
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online
K blood tests Posted: 08-03-08 13:51pm
RichT
wrote:
Hello Fran,
Thanks for your great updates. I'd like
to be a little mouse when you and your doc
are "chatting". LOL
Super that your PT is helping. Progress
is happening and as Carrie so will put it
"I see so much more brightness in your
eyes." Yep, it is coming through.
Fran, it has been four months since my
last epidural injection. It is wearing
off a bit, so may not be long before the
ole body is ready for another. I know in
one of your posts you are concerned about
the effect of the corticosteroid on one's
K level. You said something about having
the level checked before the injection and
then again was it two weeks after the
injection to have the K level checked
again. Would you please refresh this ole
lazy mind? Thanks
Take care and do keep us informed of your
progress. Your detail helps me to
understand what I too may face in the
future.
RichT
Here you go with the info.
That's why both my PM doctor and my spine
doctor have blood work drawn prior to any
ESI or Nerve blocks done so there is a
base line electrolyte level prior to the
injections, even though I take only OTC
pain relievers and no blood pressure meds
at all, and then they have my PCP follow
up with repeat tests at 2 and 4 weeks
after any injections.
Fran
|
RichT
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Posts: 910
Thanks: 21
Thanked:0
Posted: 08-03-08 14:17pm
Hello Fran,
Thanks much. I'm made a copy and put it
in my medical file.
Hope you are able to enjoy this great
weather today. At least for a little bit
outside.
RichT
|
CarolDiane
Moderator
Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 2392 Location: ,
Thanks: 111
Thanked:156
Posted: 08-03-08 16:45pm
It's nice to know everyone has so much
comfidence in my own back yard. LSI is not
but a few miles from where I live. You
were right in back year and didn't even
know it.
|
Carol Lumbar
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Aug 2007 Posts: 35 Location: Sherman, TX,
Thanks: 1
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I'm Back! Posted: 08-04-08 13:42pm
Hi everyone! (Old and New!)
I'm back from the land of OZ! I've spent
the last few hours reading posts and
trying to catch up! My head is swimming
with confusion! Who's on first? Who's on
second? All I know is I have missed you
guys and this wonderful forum!
Fran: Wow! you've been a busy gal! I
just saw Mama Mia and you are the epitome
of the "super trooper!" You will be ALL
RIGHT! I can feel it in my facets!
Courage my Lion friend!
A special hi to my spiney twin, "tin
WOman" Marie! It's nice to know you are
doing well and still post with such
"heart!"
Last but not least . . . my "scarecrow,
Rich T!" What a formidable compass you
have been for everyone!! Such a popular
and knowledgeable forum you have started!
It's good to see such robust dialogue
continues to inform us all! Ain't it
America!!
I will just kick back and try to catch up
by listening! I even visited the old
website . . . lots of changes over there!
Take care everyone! It's good to be back
home!
C
|
RichT
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Posts: 910
Thanks: 21
Thanked:0
Posted: 08-04-08 21:55pm
A Hearty WELCOME BACK HOME and
CONGRATULATIONS to you Carol.
See what you started many moons ago!!!!
THANKS!!!!! We all thank you!!!!
Every time I think of you and the
dedication you had to write your 400+ page
dissertation I am in awe. Writing a
chapter in a book was about all I could
handle. lol
I can't wait for your wisdom on this Back
Pain forum.
Okay, one last thing - I'm perplexed about
"my "scarecrow" RichT". Must be some OK
thing. Sorry Carol, but I
need a "translation" LOL
SOOOOooo GREAT to have you back into our
family, YOUR family!!!
I'm back from the land of OZ! I've spent
the last few hours reading posts and
trying to catch up! My head is swimming
with confusion! Who's on first? Who's on
second? All I know is I have missed you
guys and this wonderful forum!
Fran: Wow! you've been a busy gal! I
just saw Mama Mia and you are the epitome
of the "super trooper!" You will be ALL
RIGHT! I can feel it in my facets!
Courage my Lion friend!
A special hi to my spiney twin, "tin
WOman" Marie! It's nice to know you are
doing well and still post with such
"heart!"
Last but not least . . . my "scarecrow,
Rich T!" What a formidable compass you
have been for everyone!! Such a popular
and knowledgeable forum you have started!
It's good to see such robust dialogue
continues to inform us all! Ain't it
America!!
I will just kick back and try to catch up
by listening! I even visited the old
website . . . lots of changes over there!
Take care everyone! It's good to be back
home!
C
Carol,
Welcome back to the family. You have been
missed. And to think that 400 page
dissertation is finally finished.
But far more important to all of us, but
not to diminish the work you have finally
finished, is HOW ARE YOU DOING? HOW ARE
YOU FEELING? AND WHAT IS GOING ON SINCE
YOU LAST POSTED AND WE WHERE SO CONCERNED
ABOUT YOU?
Please let us know what is going on and
have you even begun to consider what you
will do?
Not sure if I would say I am the "super
trooper". As my daughter puts it, "mom
you have slowed down so much since I left
for college, came home to live for my
first year after graduating and now on my
own for 2 years."
I just look at her and think, "sure
sweetheart, I've slowed down. Let's see,
I'm six years older, now been through 2
spinal surgeries, recovering from #2 right
now. But how about this one for a reason
for slowing down and not running around
like a "mad woman". YOU DON'T LIVE HERE
ANY MORE. How's that one for starters?
Then there is the fact that I don't have
any soccer games to go running to 3 times
a week in the fall, parent conferences to
attend 4 times a year, lacrosse games 3
times a week in the spring, no more school
meetings of any kind, your friends in and
out of the house 7 days a week, phone
ringing for you, this prom or that prom,
this HS awards thing for you or that one
to go to.
All at the same time, running a home
business, doing 10 or more craft shows
from Sept. to Dec. and that doesn't
include hand producing all the merchandise
etc. Along with cooking meals, cleaning a
house, laundry, my gardens, seed
collecting,seed sowing, seedling planting
etc.
And Oh, yes, spending time for myself and
with friends and time with your father.
Any idea why I've slowed down so much over
the past 6 years, sweetheart?"
Instead I just smile and say, well life
gets a lot quieter when there is just your
Dad and I here and I'm recovering from
spinal surgery."
Oh yes I will recover but you feel it in
your facets? I hope that's all you feel
in your facets, Carol.
Take care, thanks for the encouragement
and yes the "old site" has changed
dramatically over the past year. More so
than you can even begin to imagine.
PM me with your e-mail addy and I can fill
you in.
Hello All,
rolled his eyes, and said "do I want to
hear this? Can we do something about
it?"
protest, but I just
told them the plan.
for PT and my PT.
She is wonderful and I just love going to
PT. Yup, I see the flicker of the light
at the end of the tunnel.
Sorry Carol, but I
need a "translation" LOL