General Debate Forum - Is Homosexuality Natural? page 2

meblonde01 on August 13th, 2007

Supporter

the_girlfreind wrote:

milletics wrote:

Eiri wrote:

milletics wrote:

Alot of "I think" and "I believe's" here. Lets see what our ultimate authority says.

The bible is not the ultimate authority, so who gives a flying duck what IT has to say? I was referencing science, which is in the business of PROVING things, and has a habit of OBSERVING the real world around it.

I have *scientific* sources that prove homosexuality is natural in the wild. I have made logical deductions using science and common sense to apply this research to human behavior and share my observations. I didn't reference a fairy tale, and I didn't lie.

So it sounds like your God is Science.
Did u know that science thought the world was flat

no PEOPLE thought the world was flat

yes they did.. it was a fact .. at one time.. unproven fact, just like other things that have sence been proven.. And things yet not proven..Things that we consider fact now may one day not be..

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meblonde01 replied on August 13th, 2007

Supporter

the_girlfreind wrote:

milletics wrote:

Eiri wrote:

milletics wrote:

Alot of "I think" and "I believe's" here. Lets see what our ultimate authority says.

The bible is not the ultimate authority, so who gives a flying duck what IT has to say? I was referencing science, which is in the business of PROVING things, and has a habit of OBSERVING the real world around it.

I have *scientific* sources that prove homosexuality is natural in the wild. I have made logical deductions using science and common sense to apply this research to human behavior and share my observations. I didn't reference a fairy tale, and I didn't lie.

So it sounds like your God is Science.
Did u know that science thought the world was flat

no PEOPLE thought the world was flat

little history for you.

To start with... there's a horizon, meaning that the surface that one is observing from is not an infinite plane. On the clearest of days, the only restriction to one's range of sight is the horizon. There can be two explanations for this - one, that the Earth at some point just stops, as if you were looking off the edge of a table. The other is that the Earth is round. Hundreds of years ago, before the invention of the compass or sextant, precise navigation for ships was difficult, even with the stars. Ships that ventured past sight of land were often lost, and thus it was generally believed that the world simply *stopped* at the end of the horizon. With the invention of the compass, and improved map-making, people began to dare more, and with the return of Columbus from his trans-Atlantic voyage, the concept of the Earth as flat was shattered.

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Tylanas replied on August 13th, 2007

Especially EHEALTHy

milletics wrote:

Eiri wrote:

milletics wrote:

Alot of "I think" and "I believe's" here. Lets see what our ultimate authority says.

The bible is not the ultimate authority, so who gives a flying duck what IT has to say? I was referencing science, which is in the business of PROVING things, and has a habit of OBSERVING the real world around it.

I have *scientific* sources that prove homosexuality is natural in the wild. I have made logical deductions using science and common sense to apply this research to human behavior and share my observations. I didn't reference a fairy tale, and I didn't lie.

So it sounds like your God is Science.
Did u know that science thought the world was flat

Actually, the catholic church maintained that the earth "must" be flat long, long, long after science discovered that it wasn't. In fact, greek scientists had discovered not only that the earth was round, but they had even calculated its circumfrence to within a couple hundred miles.

So no, science did not think the earth was flat. Flat-earth ideas always came out of religious origins. Once scientists got ahold of the idea, they consistently and quickly proved it wrong.

You don't need blind faith for science. If you want something proven to you, they can do it. Science also does not claim to have all the answers and readily admits that there is more to learn. This kind of honesty is never found in religion, which simply makes up new stories to explain the unknown, instead of observing the world to find the real answer.

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meblonde01 replied on August 13th, 2007

Supporter

Eiri wrote:

milletics wrote:

Eiri wrote:

milletics wrote:

Alot of "I think" and "I believe's" here. Lets see what our ultimate authority says.

The bible is not the ultimate authority, so who gives a flying duck what IT has to say? I was referencing science, which is in the business of PROVING things, and has a habit of OBSERVING the real world around it.

I have *scientific* sources that prove homosexuality is natural in the wild. I have made logical deductions using science and common sense to apply this research to human behavior and share my observations. I didn't reference a fairy tale, and I didn't lie.

So it sounds like your God is Science.
Did u know that science thought the world was flat

Actually, the catholic church maintained that the earth "must" be flat long, long, long after science discovered that it wasn't. In fact, greek scientists had discovered not only that the earth was round, but they had even calculated its circumfrence to within a couple hundred miles.

So no, science did not think the earth was flat. Flat-earth ideas always came out of religious origins. Once scientists got ahold of the idea, they consistently and quickly proved it wrong.

You don't need blind faith for science. If you want something proven to you, they can do it. Science also does not claim to have all the answers and readily admits that there is more to learn. This kind of honesty is never found in religion, which simply makes up new stories to explain the unknown, instead of observing the world to find the real answer.

Science also does not claim to have all the answers :

that's a good thing..

But at one time I think most people thought it was Flat!

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Tylanas replied on August 13th, 2007

Especially EHEALTHy

Yes, before science was developed enough to tell the difference, back when science and religion were hard to separate, everyone thought the world was flat. That was because they had no way to tell the difference. However, once science got good enough, many smart people pointed out the earth must be round. Christianity was in full swing by this point... and it refused to believe the earth was round. It denied a round earth until someone (not columbus mind you) sailed the whole way around the earth. Then the church really couldn't deny it any more.

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meblonde01 replied on August 13th, 2007

Supporter

I wonder how many scientists are Christians. I mean now not back then. It would be interesting to know And I wonder how they think about things? Things they discover. Ya Know?? Just a thought...
I didn't know this
.Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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Tylanas replied on August 13th, 2007

Especially EHEALTHy

There is I feel, a definite need for spirituality in a human's life. We like spirituality.

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marytartor replied on August 13th, 2007

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

I don't know if that quote helps you? Can you explain what you think Einstien was saying? Most scientists in middle ages to the 18th century disagreed with the church or did not believe in its practices, Sir Isaac Newton for example?

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meblonde01 replied on August 13th, 2007

Supporter

marytartor wrote:

I don't know if that quote helps you? Can you explain what you think Einstien was saying? Most scientists in middle ages to the 18th century disagreed with the church or did not believe in its practices, Sir Isaac Newton for example?

Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God is essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion on an intelligent and powerful Being."
But you are right, it doesn't mean he believed in the church.. I guess believing and believing in the church could be different.. Just as they are now..

And I apolize for getting way off the topic here. Unless these two guys where GAY.. Smile

One conversation just lead to another.

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marytartor replied on August 13th, 2007

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

I wasn't clear sorry...I didn't mean he was against the chruch I meant he disagreed on certain points and was later persecuted for it. He was a bad example but I could think of anyone else

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amethyst eyes replied on August 13th, 2007

Extremely EHEALTHy

I think that homosexuality is natural and as Eiri said, can be beneficial for certain groups and species. I have also heard of several scientific studies that indicate that there behavior is based on there genetic make-up.

As for homosexuality being a choice, I do not believe this is true. Many gay men and women often say they wish they could be straight so that they could be accepted by the general public and there families. Who would choose to live a life of persecution by those they love?

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milletics replied on August 13th, 2007

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

iridescent_opal wrote:

I think that homosexuality is natural and as Eiri said, can be beneficial for certain groups and species. I have also heard of several scientific studies that indicate that there behavior is based on there genetic make-up.

As for homosexuality being a choice, I do not believe this is true. Many gay men and women often say they wish they could be straight so that they could be accepted by the general public and there families. Who would choose to live a life of persecution by those they love?

Those that have rebelled against God.
A question hasnt been answered yet. Some people are born with a greater tendency toward violence. That being said should they just give in toward that tendancy?
Of course not. Same with homosexuality.
Those with a greater tendancy toward alcoholism; should they just give in?
Its sin! We all have a tendancy toward sin. We all give in to it. But we are supposed to repent and "sin no more". Or at least try.

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marytartor replied on August 13th, 2007

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

"Those that have rebelled against God.
A question hasnt been answered yet. Some people are born with a greater tendency toward violence. That being said should they just give in toward that tendancy?
Of course not. Same with homosexuality.
Those with a greater tendancy toward alcoholism; should they just give in?
Its sin! We all have a tendancy toward sin. We all give in to it. But we are supposed to repent and "sin no more". Or at least try."

You are lecturing about the morality of homosexuality, not if it is natural or not. WE ALL KNOW YOU THINK ITS WRONG. But lets stick to the question is it natural or not?

I think it is.

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Jude-Love replied on August 13th, 2007

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

milletics wrote:

Alot of "I think" and "I believe's" here. Lets see what our ultimate authority says.

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

1 corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

A person may be born with a greater tendency to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires.

You mean your ultimate authority. Unfortunately, your fantasies have no place in this discussion.

BTW, if you have a daughter, are you going to sell her into slavery? If you heard a voice that you thought belonged to the ultimate authority, would you kill your child when it told you to? The ultimate authority says you should.

melblonde01 wrote:

The question is not asking if it is wrong or right so I won't answer that. But if we are saying you can't help who you fall in love with or where your desires lay, born that way. Then I don't think it is natural, If that's the case it could be considered natural to desire children or animals. If that is the desire a person was born with!

Except a homosexual relationship is two consenting adults. Beastiality and pedophilia are nothing of the kind. Nice try though. Very nice of you to compare people to rapists and sickos because you don't understand their desires. Really smart of you.

Also...if we are talking about natural, there are animals who sometimes mate with other animals of the same sex.

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Birch replied on August 13th, 2007

Moderator

Is love natural?

Is the physical manifestation of that love "unnatural"?

I think it is all "natural".

I'm sure a supreme being would not frown upon love.

The real question is; are homosexual sex acts unnatural, because clearly we can show that love is natural, and the only beef anyone seems to have with homosexuals is that they "lie down" with other homosexuals.

And what the hell is "natural" sex, anyways? Is anal sex "artificial"? Laughing

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milletics replied on August 14th, 2007

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

Jude-Love wrote:

milletics wrote:

Alot of "I think" and "I believe's" here. Lets see what our ultimate authority says.

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

1 corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

A person may be born with a greater tendency to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires.

You mean your ultimate authority. Unfortunately, your fantasies have no place in this discussion.

Over a billion in this world are a part of the christian fantasy. Probably closer to 2.

Jude-Love wrote:

BTW, if you have a daughter, are you going to sell her into slavery? If you heard a voice that you thought belonged to the ultimate authority, would you kill your child when it told you to? The ultimate authority says you should.

God had specific laws in how one should treat a slave. It was much the same as a job.(you are confusing with how America treated its slave(like animals)). God tested Abraham and he passed.(If you recall he didnt kill him). If you also recall why God only did this to one person in bible history: Abraham would father God's people. God found the right man. Abraham showed the ultimate love and faith.

Jude-Love wrote:

Also...if we are talking about natural, there are animals who sometimes mate with other animals of the same sex.

They are just that; animals.
My dog humps furniture. Nuf said.
(You can go ahead and belittle yourself by saying "we are all animals"; but I am not. You may be.

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meblonde01 replied on August 14th, 2007

Supporter

If sex between an Man and Man , or Woman and Woman our for pure pleasure, and not associated with reproduction then I feel that goes against Nature, That makes is not natural or normal..

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marytartor replied on August 14th, 2007

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

People have sex within marriage(or out) for pleasure and not for reproduction does that make it not natural. That was ridiculous statement.

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Rodge replied on August 14th, 2007

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

Who cares? My glasses aren't 'natural', and they're how I see. My heart pills aren't 'natural', and they saved my life. Single-parent families aren't 'natural', and I wouldn't have mine any other way. Why does our acceptance of the unnatural not extend to what other people do in bed?

('Natural' has officially stopped looking like a word now.)

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meblonde01 replied on August 14th, 2007

Supporter

marytartor wrote:

People have sex within marriage(or out) for pleasure and not for reproduction does that make it not natural. That was ridiculous statement.

No, but it is Natural. even with out children it is still within what nature in MOST all cases requires for matting , men and women . Male to female.. There are RARE occasions, just like humans, when things get out of normal.. Out of what was intended. So in my opinion it is less close to Nature “natural” then Not.

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