[quote="UCanQuit"]Think about the bumper
sticker. "What would Jesus do?" People
don't really think to deeply about that.
If Jesus met a homosexual that was kind to
his fellow man, caring to the people
around him and alwaus willing to lend a
hand to the less fortunate.
Do you think that Jesus would say to him "
You're a very caring person. You love the
people around you. You have goodness in
your heart. Too bad you're going to
hell."
I really don't think so. I believe that
Jesus would love that person and accept
them.
It is the content of the character that
I'm most concerned about with people.
I don't understand homosexuality. I don't
understand why a man would like a man or a
woman would like a woman, but I really
don't care either. If they are truly
happy, good for them, because that's what
we all really want. To be happy.
I think that people that worry and codemn
other people are not really happy with
themselves.
The problem with organized religion is the
hypocricy of it. The bible was written by
man. Hell was invented to scare people by
man.
The Catholic religion condemns
homosexuality, yet Catholic priests are
synonymous with sexually abusing young
boys and how do they deal with it? By
moving priests to different churches and
paying off the victims.
It's funny to see the these people in the
religious right get caught for the very
thing they are speaking out against. What
hypocricy!
There is too much hate in this world in
the name of God. There is too much death
in this world in the name of God and it
has always been that way.
I love Jesus, but I do not like his fan
club.
As far as God nature and man. Yes man is
part of nature, but man got too arrgogant
and turned his back on nature and in turn
is now destroying nature. Yet up until
lately has strongly denied it.
Funny how the same leaders that denied
what we are doing to this world are also
the ones that are so self righteously
judging others lifestyles.
Eric[/quote]
You show me one place in the bible where
Jesus EVER ACCEPTS sin.
Jesus was never tolerant. Loving yes, for
he came for sinners.
He loves all sinners (all of us) but he
hates sin and is clear what happens to us
that dont repent and "turn from our evil
ways".
Dont misunderstand me; I am not condemning
anyone. I am just stating what the bible
says about sin.
|
milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
Posted: 09-20-07 08:14am
sillyakchick
wrote:
Gu£st
wrote:
Ah you poor misinformed
soul.
"It kind of reminds of the olden days.
When the church was against interracial
marriage and a black person couldn't marry
a white person and visa versa. "
That has NEVER EVER been the case, your
thinking of interreligious marriage where
the church stressed the benefits and
importance of marriage between people of
the same faith and the complications of
interfaith marriages.
"What's the difference? Them not acting on
it? That is the only difference I can see
in this statement. So as long as thy don't
fall in love with someone and show their
feelings for them, they're ok with the
church?"
Your statement is erronious and
unthoughtout ...there is nothing wrong
with loving people of the same Gender, I
know I love a lot of people the same
gender as me, one of my parents is the
same gender as me and I dont have to have
incest to show my feelings for them.
"Don't compare adultery with
homosexuality. People choose to cheat on
their spouses. People do not choose to be
homosexuals."
False analogy!!!!
People dont choose who they are attracted
too, they choose to have sex with them or
not. A female who is attracted to another
male apart from her husband does not
choose to be attracted to the other male,
but she chooses to have sex with him or
not. A man who is attracted to other men
does not choose to be attracted to other
men but he chooses to have sex with them
or not.
"Imagine if someone told you to surpress
your feelings for someone you loved and
don't ever act on those feelings or you
would go to hell. ( a man made up place).
How would you feel? "
I wouldnt be bothered if indeed it were a
man made up place. If it were a real place
then and I only think it man made then i
would be ingnrant of the trouble I was in.
Finally if it were a real place and I
believed it were I would be thankful to
those who told me.
"What kind of life is it to have to
surpress your feelings all your life?"
When it benefits mankind and perhaps your
eternal happiness then its a galant life.
"How happy can a person who is chained to
the morals of a church ( with years of
hypocricy in it's history mind you) be for
the rest of their lives?"
If we are made by God and destined to work
for God how can we be happy doing anything
else?
How happy are you, do you even understand
happiness, have you ever been truely
happy?
"When you condemn homosexuality, you are
essentially condemning that person,
because you are condemning something that
they didn't choose to be."
A person is not homosexuality that is
ludicris!!!
A person may be homosexual but he is
certainly not homosexuality.
We condemn the act of homosexuality not
the homosexual.
"So would you say that interracial
marriage is wrong? The religious people
before you back then did. So do you think
that was wrong or right? "
Unless your talking about one or two of
the protestant faiths that I do not know
about, your mistaking.
"By the way, I'm white and my wife is
Japanese. So I take great offense to this
crap that was spouted off in the name of
God. "
You can rest assured that the catholic
Church has always believed that interacial
marriage was a Good thing for obvious
reasons.... it is one of the reasons we
are hated by the Ku Klux Klan.... perhaps
thats the religion your thinking about....
they still believe that way.
"To say that homosexuals are more apt to
commit sexual abuse is wrong. There is a
vast majority more of straight people
commiting sexual abuse than homosexuals.
"
your unclear... are you saying
1 the vast majority of pedophiles are
straight?
Or
2 are you saying the vast majority of
straight people are pedophiles?
If it is number one, then I simply say you
can hardly call pedophillia "straight"
If it is number two, I think I would never
take your point of view seriously again.
"People like you always focus on the
deviant acts of homosexuals. Do some
homosexuals practice deviant acts? Sure
they do, BUT SO DO A LOT OF STRAIGHT
PEOPLE!!"
in all truth any person who practices a
deviant act in sexual relations can not be
called "straight"
The big difference here is the homosexual
act is devient in itself, where the
hetorsexual act is not.
Did you know that homosexual sodomy is
quite legal and considered "normal", while
hetrosexual sodomy is Illegal and
considered devient.
"Well I'm sorry you find my quote
offensive, but you should blame the people
that are speaking out against
homosexuality and other issues that are
getting caught for the very same thing
they are condemning"
"Don't blame me because I brought it up.
Blame the hypocrite you made him or
herself look like a fool."
You are condemning the beliefs because of
his actions, you should condemn his
actions not the belief. A Person can
believe that murrder is wrong and through
weakness kill someone. Should we condemn
that mans beliefs as wrong because he
killed someone? Surely we should say he
was right murrder is wrong and his action
was wrong.
What we should not do is say is that his
beleif was wrong because he could not live
upto that standard, therefore because his
belief is wrong his act was right.
They did not make themselves look like
fools, they showed themselves to be weak
human beings.
Guest, you are welcome to your views, but
please refrain from calling people who do
not believe your point of view "fools" it
is insulting.
You mean like you?
|
milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
Posted: 09-20-07 08:31am
UCanQuit
wrote:
You know gaeust. I'm pretty
much done with debating this. Believe what
you want.
Most pastors in the south were against
interracial marriage. The KKK was against
other races. They both used God and
scripture to validate their beliefs.
I hate the fact that people use God's name
to validate things like this. There is too
much hate in this world in the name of
God.
You talk about choices. So are you a
heterosexual or do you just practice being
a heterosexual?
Did you choose to be a heterosexual? When
you started having feelings.
Did you say to yourself, " I can either be
a heterosexual or a homosexual."
And then did you weighed your options and
choose to be heterosexual or was it just
natural for you to be a heterosexual?
Did you really choose or is that just who
you are?
You saying that a person being gay is a
choice is like me saying to you that you
chose to be straight.
I didn't shoose to be straight. I'm just
naturally attracted to women.
So think what you want about gay people
going to hell (again a man made up story
to scare people), but I know gay people
living in Seattle and they are some of the
most caring, supportive people I know. To
me that's important.
As far as stereotyping. That's what
organized religion does in general. It
doesn't seem to matter how big a heart or
how caring a person is. It doesn't seem to
matter about the content of their
character. If they are gay they are going
to hell. Is being gay even in the seven
deadly sins? Is it under adultery. I'm not
sure what the bible defines as adultery.
But it's OK from a scripture I read one
time in the bible for a daughter to get
her father drunk and then trick him into
having sex with her so to bear him a son.
Why not just get him drunk and go knock
some other woman up? Is incest best?
Ye without sin cast the first stone. Oops
wait. I can't use that because Jesus
really never said it. King James had that
put into the King James edition.
Speaking of choices. If the Catholic
Church is so into interracial
relationships. Don't you think it was a
bit of a poor choice for them to have a
pope (Pope Benidict) that was once part of
the Nazi Youth Movement?
To add also. The bottom line is we need a
seperation of church and state and this
doesn't seem to be happening as of late.
Eric
Lets see what OUR bible says:
1 corinthians 6:9
9Do you not know that the wicked will not
inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be
deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor
idolaters nor adulterers nor male
prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL OFFENDERS.
leviticus 18:22
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies
with a woman; that is detestable.
Romans 1:26-27
26Because of this, God gave them over to
shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged
natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In
the same way the men also abandoned
natural relations with women and were
inflamed with lust for one another. Men
committed indecent acts with other men,
and received in themselves the due penalty
for their perversion.
How do you interpret these verses?
|
UCanQuit
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 109 Location: SEATTLE
Posted: 09-20-07 08:56am
Oh Geez, here we go again
Why don't you just answer the question?
What would Jesus do? If he met someone who
was gay and they were kind to their fellow
man. They were loving to the ones around
them. They were always willing to lend a
helping hand to the less fortunate.
Do you really think that Jesus would say
to them that " You're a really kind
person. You love your fellow human beings.
You are always willing to help other
children of God when they are not as
fortunate. You are exactly how people
should treat other people. It's just too
bad you're going to hell." I just can't
seem to wrap my head around that. That no
matter how compassionate a person is. No
matter how loving they are to their fellow
neighbors. No matter how good of a heart
they have. They are still going to hell
because they are gay.
What really gets me is the hypocricy of it
all!!!
Why is it OK according to one scripture
in the bible for a daughter to get her
father drunk and then trick him into
having sex with her so to bear him a son.
Why not just have sex with another woman?
Is incest best?
Then I see Christians every day saying "
oh gay people are going to hell, because
their gay.
Well isn't sloth, and gluttony a couple of
the 7 deadly sins? How come we don't tell
fat christians that they're going to hell
for gluttony. Aren't they a glutton for
food? And please don't use a thyroid
excuse on that. While some people do have
thyroid problems. Most people just sit on
their ass all day and eat lots of fast
food and junk food.
How bout these famous evanglesists getting
caught for prositiution and adultery? Oh
how they repent. " Forgive me Jesus, for I
have sinned."
What a bunch of crap. They're not sorry,
they're just sorry for getting caught.
I'll say it again, organized religion has
spread a lot of hate in this world. It as
caused a lot of deaths in the name of God.
Again, what would Jesus do? Would he just
going around killing people in the name of
his father? I don't remember him doing
that in the bible. He just turned over
some tables at a market or something like
that.
Look at the war now. Islam extremists are
calling us infidels and are trying to kill
us in the name of Allah (Arabic for God)
And then the (not mine) president says
that God spoke to him and told him to
invade Iraq ( a whole other issue).
what!!!! He invaded Iraq, because God
told him to? Are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!
Forget why you think we went to Iraq, the
bottom line is the president said that God
told him to. What the hell happened to the
seperation of church and state?!!!!
And while I may not be ab expert on Islam
or Christianity. I find it pretty ironic
that Christians and Muslims have been
fighting all these centuries. Don't they
believe in the same God? After all, the
Angel Gabriel ( the same angel in the
Christian bible) came down and gave
Mohamed(sic) scriptures that became the
Koran.
By the way, anyone want to see a totally
disturbing documentary. Watch the movie
Jesus Camp. It is disturbing, very
distubing
Eric
|
AyaMiyaki
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 8246 Location: Floating on a cloud, United States
Thanks: 168
Thanked:14
Posted: 09-20-07 09:07am
Welcome to the boards, UCanQuit
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 09-20-07 09:11am
milletics
wrote:
You show me one place in the bible where
Jesus EVER ACCEPTS sin.
Jesus was never tolerant. Loving yes, for
he came for sinners.
He loves all sinners (all of us) but he
hates sin and is clear what happens to us
that dont repent and "turn from our evil
ways".
Your bible must be different than
mine.
Didn't Jesus hang around with prostitutes
(Mary Madgalen) and vagabonds? Didn't
Jesus himself commit assault, battery, and
vandalism when he got angry and tore up
all of the shops inside of that church one
time? That's in the bible. People forget
about that story, because it HUMANIZES
him. He's no longer the perfect pacifist.
He committed sins himself.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 09-20-07 09:21am
milletics
wrote:
Lets see what OUR bible says:
1 corinthians 6:9
9Do you not know that the wicked will not
inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be
deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor
idolaters nor adulterers nor male
prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL
OFFENDERS.
This is the only clear reference to
homosexuality in the entire bible that
actually states it as wrong, listing
homosexual offenders with male prostitutes
(I guess female ones are okay!?),
cheaters, and people who worship other
gods (of course!).
What is a homosexual "offender" though?
Quote:
leviticus 18:22
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies
with a woman; that is
detestable.
Isn't that Old Testament? I thought the
Old Testament didn't count. Any time I try
using the old testament in an argument,
I'm told it doesn't count. So now I'm
returning the favor.
Quote:
Romans 1:26-27
26Because of this, God gave them over to
shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged
natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In
the same way the men also abandoned
natural relations with women and were
inflamed with lust for one another. Men
committed indecent acts with other men,
and received in themselves the due penalty
for their
perversion.
This is, to my knowledge, the only other
New Testament quote in here, so only two
count!
"God gave them over" = Aka, God FORCED
these people to have these feelings.
Forced homosexuality is far different from
being born with it. God used gay sex to
punish these people, which I find
hilarious.
Quote:
How do you
interpret these
verses?
A. One of them doesn't count 'cause it's
Old Testament.
B. God forced the people in Romans to BE
gay! That's not natural homosexuality. I'm
pretty sure that means it doesn't count
either.
C. The only one that counts is
Corinthians.
But again, what exactly is a homosexual
"offender"?
Besides, the bible has never been very
good at describing the real world. Science
has proven it wrong so many times it's not
even funny.
|
sillyakchick
Moderator
Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2688
Thanks: 5
Thanked:0
Posted: 09-20-07 10:11am
milletics
wrote:
sillyakchick
wrote:
Gu£st
wrote:
Ah you poor misinformed
soul.
"It kind of reminds of the olden days.
When the church was against interracial
marriage and a black person couldn't marry
a white person and visa versa. "
That has NEVER EVER been the case, your
thinking of interreligious marriage where
the church stressed the benefits and
importance of marriage between people of
the same faith and the complications of
interfaith marriages.
"What's the difference? Them not acting on
it? That is the only difference I can see
in this statement. So as long as thy don't
fall in love with someone and show their
feelings for them, they're ok with the
church?"
Your statement is erronious and
unthoughtout ...there is nothing wrong
with loving people of the same Gender, I
know I love a lot of people the same
gender as me, one of my parents is the
same gender as me and I dont have to have
incest to show my feelings for them.
"Don't compare adultery with
homosexuality. People choose to cheat on
their spouses. People do not choose to be
homosexuals."
False analogy!!!!
People dont choose who they are attracted
too, they choose to have sex with them or
not. A female who is attracted to another
male apart from her husband does not
choose to be attracted to the other male,
but she chooses to have sex with him or
not. A man who is attracted to other men
does not choose to be attracted to other
men but he chooses to have sex with them
or not.
"Imagine if someone told you to surpress
your feelings for someone you loved and
don't ever act on those feelings or you
would go to hell. ( a man made up place).
How would you feel? "
I wouldnt be bothered if indeed it were a
man made up place. If it were a real place
then and I only think it man made then i
would be ingnrant of the trouble I was in.
Finally if it were a real place and I
believed it were I would be thankful to
those who told me.
"What kind of life is it to have to
surpress your feelings all your life?"
When it benefits mankind and perhaps your
eternal happiness then its a galant life.
"How happy can a person who is chained to
the morals of a church ( with years of
hypocricy in it's history mind you) be for
the rest of their lives?"
If we are made by God and destined to work
for God how can we be happy doing anything
else?
How happy are you, do you even understand
happiness, have you ever been truely
happy?
"When you condemn homosexuality, you are
essentially condemning that person,
because you are condemning something that
they didn't choose to be."
A person is not homosexuality that is
ludicris!!!
A person may be homosexual but he is
certainly not homosexuality.
We condemn the act of homosexuality not
the homosexual.
"So would you say that interracial
marriage is wrong? The religious people
before you back then did. So do you think
that was wrong or right? "
Unless your talking about one or two of
the protestant faiths that I do not know
about, your mistaking.
"By the way, I'm white and my wife is
Japanese. So I take great offense to this
crap that was spouted off in the name of
God. "
You can rest assured that the catholic
Church has always believed that interacial
marriage was a Good thing for obvious
reasons.... it is one of the reasons we
are hated by the Ku Klux Klan.... perhaps
thats the religion your thinking about....
they still believe that way.
"To say that homosexuals are more apt to
commit sexual abuse is wrong. There is a
vast majority more of straight people
commiting sexual abuse than homosexuals.
"
your unclear... are you saying
1 the vast majority of pedophiles are
straight?
Or
2 are you saying the vast majority of
straight people are pedophiles?
If it is number one, then I simply say you
can hardly call pedophillia "straight"
If it is number two, I think I would never
take your point of view seriously again.
"People like you always focus on the
deviant acts of homosexuals. Do some
homosexuals practice deviant acts? Sure
they do, BUT SO DO A LOT OF STRAIGHT
PEOPLE!!"
in all truth any person who practices a
deviant act in sexual relations can not be
called "straight"
The big difference here is the homosexual
act is devient in itself, where the
hetorsexual act is not.
Did you know that homosexual sodomy is
quite legal and considered "normal", while
hetrosexual sodomy is Illegal and
considered devient.
"Well I'm sorry you find my quote
offensive, but you should blame the people
that are speaking out against
homosexuality and other issues that are
getting caught for the very same thing
they are condemning"
"Don't blame me because I brought it up.
Blame the hypocrite you made him or
herself look like a fool."
You are condemning the beliefs because of
his actions, you should condemn his
actions not the belief. A Person can
believe that murrder is wrong and through
weakness kill someone. Should we condemn
that mans beliefs as wrong because he
killed someone? Surely we should say he
was right murrder is wrong and his action
was wrong.
What we should not do is say is that his
beleif was wrong because he could not live
upto that standard, therefore because his
belief is wrong his act was right.
They did not make themselves look like
fools, they showed themselves to be weak
human beings.
Guest, you are welcome to your views, but
please refrain from calling people who do
not believe your point of view "fools" it
is insulting.
You mean like
you?
MODERATOR NOTE:
My note was a warning as a moderator, and
now I extend it to you as well. Please do
not risk having a thread locked due to
name calling.
|
milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
Posted: 09-20-07 10:11am
Eiri
wrote:
milletics
wrote:
You show me one place in the bible where
Jesus EVER ACCEPTS sin.
Jesus was never tolerant. Loving yes, for
he came for sinners.
He loves all sinners (all of us) but he
hates sin and is clear what happens to us
that dont repent and "turn from our evil
ways".
Your bible must be different than
mine.
Didn't Jesus hang around with prostitutes
(Mary Madgalen) and vagabonds? Didn't
Jesus himself commit assault, battery, and
vandalism when he got angry and tore up
all of the shops inside of that church one
time? That's in the bible. People forget
about that story, because it HUMANIZES
him. He's no longer the perfect pacifist.
He committed sins
himself.
Yep he told her to sin no more. And she
stopped her sinful lifestyle. He did NOT
commit sins. He got angry. Anger is not a
sin. And theres where you are completely
wrong; Jesus is NOT a pacifist.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 09-20-07 10:13am
milletics
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
milletics
wrote:
You show me one place in the bible where
Jesus EVER ACCEPTS sin.
Jesus was never tolerant. Loving yes, for
he came for sinners.
He loves all sinners (all of us) but he
hates sin and is clear what happens to us
that dont repent and "turn from our evil
ways".
Your bible must be different than
mine.
Didn't Jesus hang around with prostitutes
(Mary Madgalen) and vagabonds? Didn't
Jesus himself commit assault, battery, and
vandalism when he got angry and tore up
all of the shops inside of that church one
time? That's in the bible. People forget
about that story, because it HUMANIZES
him. He's no longer the perfect pacifist.
He committed sins
himself.
Yep he told her to sin no more. And she
stopped her sinful lifestyle. He did NOT
commit sins. He got angry. Anger is not a
sin. And theres where you are completely
wrong; Jesus is NOT a
pacifist.
Then why do all the christians say he was
one?
Isn't WRATH a sin?
|
milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
Posted: 09-20-07 10:18am
UCanQuit
wrote:
Oh Geez, here we go again
Why don't you just answer the question?
What would Jesus do? If he met someone who
was gay and they were kind to their fellow
man. They were loving to the ones around
them. They were always willing to lend a
helping hand to the less fortunate.
Do you really think that Jesus would say
to them that " You're a really kind
person. You love your fellow human beings.
You are always willing to help other
children of God when they are not as
fortunate. You are exactly how people
should treat other people. It's just too
bad you're going to hell." I just can't
seem to wrap my head around that. That no
matter how compassionate a person is. No
matter how loving they are to their fellow
neighbors. No matter how good of a heart
they have. They are still going to hell
because they are gay.
What really gets me is the hypocricy of it
all!!!
Why is it OK according to one scripture
in the bible for a daughter to get her
father drunk and then trick him into
having sex with her so to bear him a son.
Why not just have sex with another woman?
Is incest best?
Then I see Christians every day saying "
oh gay people are going to hell, because
their gay.
Well isn't sloth, and gluttony a couple of
the 7 deadly sins? How come we don't tell
fat christians that they're going to hell
for gluttony. Aren't they a glutton for
food? And please don't use a thyroid
excuse on that. While some people do have
thyroid problems. Most people just sit on
their ass all day and eat lots of fast
food and junk food.
How bout these famous evanglesists getting
caught for prositiution and adultery? Oh
how they repent. " Forgive me Jesus, for I
have sinned."
What a bunch of crap. They're not sorry,
they're just sorry for getting caught.
I'll say it again, organized religion has
spread a lot of hate in this world. It as
caused a lot of deaths in the name of God.
Again, what would Jesus do? Would he just
going around killing people in the name of
his father? I don't remember him doing
that in the bible. He just turned over
some tables at a market or something like
that.
Look at the war now. Islam extremists are
calling us infidels and are trying to kill
us in the name of Allah (Arabic for God)
And then the (not mine) president says
that God spoke to him and told him to
invade Iraq ( a whole other issue).
what!!!! He invaded Iraq, because God
told him to? Are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!
Forget why you think we went to Iraq, the
bottom line is the president said that God
told him to. What the hell happened to the
seperation of church and state?!!!!
And while I may not be ab expert on Islam
or Christianity. I find it pretty ironic
that Christians and Muslims have been
fighting all these centuries. Don't they
believe in the same God? After all, the
Angel Gabriel ( the same angel in the
Christian bible) came down and gave
Mohamed(sic) scriptures that became the
Koran.
By the way, anyone want to see a totally
disturbing documentary. Watch the movie
Jesus Camp. It is disturbing, very
distubing
Eric
Jesus made it very clear that the ONLY way
to heaven was to believe in him and accept
that he died for us.
He said that we are saved by faith and
grace, NOT by works.
Doesnt matter how good you were, only if
you believe and become "born again"
Again true "born again" christians do not
spread hate. Me saying homosexuality is
wrong is not hatefull. You are very
misled.
|
milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
Posted: 09-20-07 10:19am
[quote="milletics"]
UCanQuit
wrote:
Oh Geez, here we go again
Why don't you just answer the question?
What would Jesus do? If he met someone who
was gay and they were kind to their fellow
man. They were loving to the ones around
them. They were always willing to lend a
helping hand to the less fortunate.
Do you really think that Jesus would say
to them that " You're a really kind
person. You love your fellow human beings.
You are always willing to help other
children of God when they are not as
fortunate. You are exactly how people
should treat other people. It's just too
bad you're going to hell." I just can't
seem to wrap my head around that. That no
matter how compassionate a person is. No
matter how loving they are to their fellow
neighbors. No matter how good of a heart
they have. They are still going to hell
because they are gay.
What really gets me is the hypocricy of it
all!!!
Why is it OK according to one scripture
in the bible for a daughter to get her
father drunk and then trick him into
having sex with her so to bear him a son.
Why not just have sex with another woman?
Is incest best?
Then I see Christians every day saying "
oh gay people are going to hell, because
their gay.
Well isn't sloth, and gluttony a couple of
the 7 deadly sins? How come we don't tell
fat christians that they're going to hell
for gluttony. Aren't they a glutton for
food? And please don't use a thyroid
excuse on that. While some people do have
thyroid problems. Most people just sit on
their ass all day and eat lots of fast
food and junk food.
How bout these famous evanglesists getting
caught for prositiution and adultery? Oh
how they repent. " Forgive me Jesus, for I
have sinned."
What a bunch of crap. They're not sorry,
they're just sorry for getting caught.
I'll say it again, organized religion has
spread a lot of hate in this world. It as
caused a lot of deaths in the name of God.
Again, what would Jesus do? Would he just
going around killing people in the name of
his father? I don't remember him doing
that in the bible. He just turned over
some tables at a market or something like
that.
Look at the war now. Islam extremists are
calling us infidels and are trying to kill
us in the name of Allah (Arabic for God)
And then the (not mine) president says
that God spoke to him and told him to
invade Iraq ( a whole other issue).
what!!!! He invaded Iraq, because God
told him to? Are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!
Forget why you think we went to Iraq, the
bottom line is the president said that God
told him to. What the hell happened to the
seperation of church and state?!!!!
And while I may not be ab expert on Islam
or Christianity. I find it pretty ironic
that Christians and Muslims have been
fighting all these centuries. Don't they
believe in the same God? After all, the
Angel Gabriel ( the same angel in the
Christian bible) came down and gave
Mohamed(sic) scriptures that became the
Koran.
By the way, anyone want to see a totally
disturbing documentary. Watch the movie
Jesus Camp. It is disturbing, very
distubing
Eric
Jesus made it very clear that the ONLY way
to heaven was to believe in him and accept
that he died for us.
He said that we are saved by faith and
grace, NOT by works.
Doesnt matter how good you were, only if
you believe and become "born again"
Again true "born again" christians do not
spread hate. Me saying homosexuality is
wrong is not hatefull. You are very
misled.
Read your posts. Who is the one thats
hateful. You hate religeon an people of
it. You make that clear.
|
milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
Posted: 09-20-07 10:25am
Eiri
wrote:
milletics
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
milletics
wrote:
You show me one place in the bible where
Jesus EVER ACCEPTS sin.
Jesus was never tolerant. Loving yes, for
he came for sinners.
He loves all sinners (all of us) but he
hates sin and is clear what happens to us
that dont repent and "turn from our evil
ways".
Your bible must be different than
mine.
Didn't Jesus hang around with prostitutes
(Mary Madgalen) and vagabonds? Didn't
Jesus himself commit assault, battery, and
vandalism when he got angry and tore up
all of the shops inside of that church one
time? That's in the bible. People forget
about that story, because it HUMANIZES
him. He's no longer the perfect pacifist.
He committed sins
himself.
Yep he told her to sin no more. And she
stopped her sinful lifestyle. He did NOT
commit sins. He got angry. Anger is not a
sin. And theres where you are completely
wrong; Jesus is NOT a
pacifist.
Then why do all the christians say he was
one?
Isn't WRATH a
sin?
Dont say ALL christians. Many who call
themself christian never accepted him so
arent.
For us Wrath is a sin as is judgeing.
However we know that God is the only
judge. Does that mean God sins because he
is our judge? No. For he is our ultimate
authority.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 09-20-07 10:32am
So God can commit all the sins he wants,
got it.
That can be interpreted as "He who is in
power can commit any sin he wants, for he
is in power".
Popes.
CEOs.
Celebrities.
Presidents.
It's rampant in our society, this
dichotomy that the one in power is
absolved of all sin, but he who follows
wallows in Hell just for being in love...
An yes, aside from you and one/two other
crazy preachers, every Christian I have
met says that Jesus was a man of peace who
stood against war and fighting. He "turned
the other cheek" when confronted with
physical violence, and preferred to talk
his way out of situations rather than
physically fight. Was he a warrior of the
soul? Perhaps. But his physical form, his
actions in the physical world, were those
of a pacifist.
|
Birch
Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3963 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 129
Thanked:12
Posted: 09-20-07 11:04am
milletics
wrote:
Again true "born again" christians do not
spread hate. Me saying homosexuality is
wrong is not
hatefull.
Ask a homosexual how they feel.
Or do you not care?
|
sillyakchick
Moderator
Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2688
Thanks: 5
Thanked:0
Posted: 09-20-07 11:33am
If homosexualtiy is allowed within the
confines of one's religion, then I don't
understand why you as a christian feel
like it is your place to barge in and tell
them how wrong it is. In the US we are
allowed freedom of religion, thus we do
not have to live under the will of your
god or anyone elses. Homosexuality may
seem wrong to you, but not to the entirety
of the planet. You don't see buddhists
telling you how wrong you are for eating
meat, do you? Wouldn't you be sort of
offended if someone from another faith
kept telling you over and over how wrong
you were, how you are going to be burned
for eternity, how your life and beliefs
were sinful? I am certain if you thought
about that you would understand why some
people are so offended by this. People
feel that their beliefs are the
just/good/righteous way to live, think and
act, just as you do. Remeber, do unto
others.
|
UCanQuit
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 109 Location: SEATTLE
Posted: 09-20-07 11:57am
QUOTE "Who is the one thats hateful. You
hate religeon an people of it. You make
that clear"
You're right. I do not like organized
religion, but it doesn't mean that I don't
like all the people in it.
There are many people of different faiths
that used their faith in the positvie
way.
Mother Teresa, Ghandi, Martin Luther King
jr and many more. Not to mention there are
everyday people of faith any faith that
choose not to judge others and try to live
with the rule of loving their fellow human
being.
Again, why is it OK for a woman to get her
father drunk and sleep with him? What
makes incest OK?
Why is it not a damnable sin to sit around
all day and not do anything ,but watch TV
and eat and eat. Sloth and Gluttony are
two of the seven deadly sins. Shouldn't
Christians be warning there fellow humans
that overeating and sitting around all day
not doing anything is a damnable sin that
can send them to hell?
Don't these two sins apply just as
homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord?
Have you ever seen Wife Swap? The Big
crazy Christian Lady that was judging the
other family, yet she was commiting two of
the seven deadly sins?
You cannot pick and choose which sin is
damnable, but who is really going to tell
her she is going to hell?
My problem is the history of organized
religion and the atrocoties commited in
the name of God. The hypocricy of picking
and choosing what is sinful and what is
not to whatever is convienent.
If this were the early 1900's, we would be
having this arguement over interracial
marriage.
That is my problem.
Eric
|
UCanQuit
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 109 Location: SEATTLE
Posted: 09-20-07 12:06pm
TY AyaMiyaki
LOL I came here to help people quit
smoking. How did I get caught in this
debate? LOL
Eric
|
Dannzibelle
Supporter
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 3775 Location: South East, England
Thanks: 27
Thanked:11
Posted: 09-20-07 12:16pm
Meh, i'm going to carry on finding women
attractive not matter what the bible says,
if i don't get into heaven then oh well i
enjoyed my life with men and women
|
Georgia59
Moderator
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 5542 Location: Along the Mississippi, USA
Thanks: 89
Thanked:31
Posted: 09-20-07 13:10pm
milletics
wrote:
Lets see what OUR bible says:
1 corinthians 6:9
9Do you not know that the wicked will not
inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be
deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor
idolaters nor adulterers nor male
prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL OFFENDERS.
leviticus 18:22
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies
with a woman; that is detestable.
Romans 1:26-27
26Because of this, God gave them over to
shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged
natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In
the same way the men also abandoned
natural relations with women and were
inflamed with lust for one another. Men
committed indecent acts with other men,
and received in themselves the due penalty
for their perversion.
How do you interpret these
verses?
How do I interpret those verses? As words
written by men who were trying to rid
their culture of what they considered
immoral practices. They were the FIRST to
think homosexuality was immoral- and
should've been the last. Why are we basing
our morals on words from an extinct
culture? Don't get me wrong, I believe the
bible has some very nice things to say
that people should pay more attention
to.... but do you also expect women to
wear veils and not talk in church? We
practice what our culture accepts, not
strictly what the bible says.
