Offical Catholic Doctrine On Homosexuality

Yes, the bible with the absolute truth is a horribly mangled, mistranslated and heavily edited to remove anything confusing from the original version. Can't have god rferring to himself in the plural during genesis now can we!? And those nephillim, those will just confuse people.

So, which story of Job is the right one? Did he curse at god or not? If both stories are true, then exactly what is the point of Job? It's certainly not to teach people to be accepting of god's will no matter what! If you look at both stories, you realise the message is "God is big, mean, and he doesn't NEED a reason to make your life suck. You can whine if you want and it's not going to make a difference. God is simply a jerk."

"See Eiri we believe God is the Almigthy, so he is not going to let whoever is writting what he doesn't meant to. Of course the bible that holds the absolute thruth is the catholic one. "

There is only two bibles - Jewish & Catholic

The Catholic Bible has the Jewish Old Testiment as part of its bible.

The New Testiment which is particular to the Catholic Bible.

"Yes, the bible with the absolute truth is a horribly mangled, mistranslated and heavily edited to remove anything confusing from the original version. Can't have god rferring to himself in the plural during genesis now can we!? And those nephillim, those will just confuse people."

Can I just say, eiri i agree with you and it pee's me off to think what some people have done to the word of God.... but it is not the Catholic Bible you find this in.


of course there slight difference in the translations from Hebrew and Greek into the Venacular. This Caused a few problems For example in the Greek New Testiment we find 3 words for love, Eros, Pilia and agapa, some of the understanding of these terms is lost under the umbrella word used in the english which is "love". But in all if you have chance to read some of the dead sea scrolls, you will find that the Jewish Old testiment and the Catholic New Testiment that make up the Catholic bible has changed very little over the 2000 years, some of the word play is lost in translation but very little, it is only when we consider the protestant bibles ect that deliberatly drop words add new words and wipe out entire books and chapeters, do we start to find any great differences - these so called protestant "bible's" are not legitimate bibles at least not in the sense the Catholic Bible is.


"So, which story of Job is the right one? Did he curse at god or not? If both stories are true, then exactly what is the point of Job? It's certainly not to teach people to be accepting of god's will no matter what! If you look at both stories, you realise the message is "God is big, mean, and he doesn't NEED a reason to make your life suck. You can whine if you want and it's not going to make a difference. God is simply a jerk."

First of all Can I ask what verses you are refering to please

then i would reccomend that you ditch the student bible if it is not a sanctioned catholic copy.... you can check out a Catholic Copy here...
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The "catholic copy" was the King James' version for a very long time. I'm almost totally sure that both versions of Job are in the KJ version and every other version for that matter. I'll try to find it in the copy on that site. If it doesn't have it, then that proves to me even further that it is neither a proper translation nor the "full" version.

I'm sorry. Do you use a different bible? I wasn't aware that your bible is different from mine. So here are some exerpts from my bible.

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Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. (Eph. 6:5-6)

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The catholic bible says

“Slaves, be obedient to those who are, according to human reckoning, your masters, with deep respect and sincere loyalty, as you are obedient to Christ:

not only when you are under their eye, as if you had only to please human beings, but as slaves of Christ who wholeheartedly do the will of God. “

What is wrong with obaying your employer so long as it is not against God?
What is wrong with showing someone deep respect and loyalty?

But the Crux of the teaching comes in verse seven which you so convienently missed out

Eph 6: 7

”Work willingly for the sake of the Lord and not for the sake of human beings. “

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”Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. Whoever teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that is in accordance with godliness, is conceited, understanding nothing, and has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words. From these come envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among those who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. (1Tim. 6:1-5) “

The Catholic Bible says.

1.All those under the yoke of slavery must have unqualified respect for their masters, so that the name of God and our teaching are not brought into disrepute.

Again what is wrong with respecting people

2. Those whose masters are believers are not to respect them less because they are brothers; on the contrary, they should serve them all the better, since those who have the benefit of their services are believers and dear to God.

I see no wrong in this or how it is advocating slavery.


3 Anyone who teaches anything different and does not keep to the sound teaching which is that of our Lord Jesus Christ, the doctrine which is in accordance with true religion,

4 is proud and has no understanding, but rather a weakness for questioning everything and arguing about words. All that can come of this is jealousy, contention, abuse and evil mistrust;

5 and unending disputes by people who are depraved in mind and deprived of truth, and imagine that religion is a way of making a profit.

This is a teaching on how a slave must behave not on if slavery is right or wrong.


A disciple is not above the teacher, nor a slave above the master (Matt. 10:24)

Again it’s a teaching on the position of a disciple not on the moral aspects of slavery.



Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior. (Titus 2:9-10)

Again a teaching on the behaviour of Christian slaves not on the morality aspect of slavery.

”Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh. For it is a credit to you if, being aware of God, you endure pain while suffering unjustly. If you endure when you are beaten for doing wrong, what credit is that? But if you endure when you do right and suffer for it, you have God's approval. (1Pet. 2:18-29)“

again its on the behaviour of Christians who are slaves, not on the morality of slavery.

”When a slave owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner's property. (Exod. 21:20-21)”

1st off there were other Hebrews who were not isrealites, the Isrealites were only one

Now the Old Testiment is different to the New, the Old Testiment is God saves the Isrealite Jews from slavery and starts preparing the Jews for the coming of the Saviour, who Christians believe is JC but the Jews do not. Now although he has saved the Isrealite Jewish people and has made them a nation, they have become a “free people” yet he permits slavery in the extended Jewish nation for certain period of time in the 7th year they are to be set free. So the Isrealite Jews are a free people but the other Jewish people are not entirely free, many of gods chosen people are still slaves.

What God is teaching here is that although he has freed his chosen people from captivity to other men, there is still as yet a people not freed, a people from within themselves, other Hebrews. And he is indicating that, they will be freed after a certain period of time, and all will become as the isrealites, see the bible for the importance of the number seven, also see the generations of Jesus in regards to the number seven for the importance of Jesus.




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Now if I remember right. God took the slaves out of Egypt because they were mistreated slaves and not for the fact that they were just slaves.

If you looked one chapter back to Ex 20: 2-3 you would have seen, in all its glory

'I am Yahweh your God who brought you out of Egypt, where you lived as slaves.
'You shall have no other gods to rival me.”

The Egyptians were making themselves as gods to the Isrealite Jews…so….. God delivered them and said, 'I am Yahweh your God who brought you out of Egypt, where you lived as slaves. You shall have no other gods to rival me.

Notice the Capital of “God” and the small case of “gods”

The first ones were teachings regarding how a Christian slave should behave not teachings on the morality of slavery. Then you last one is the preparation of God for the coming of Christ.
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And if the Church doesn't condone racism. I will ask once again. Why is it that the present pope was once affiliated with the Nazi Youth Movement? That is really a stupid decision on behalf of the Church to show that racism is wrong.

The church does not choose the pope, the holy spirit chooses the pope. The Holy spirit who is a person of the holy trinity along with the father and the son, does not look at the past mistakes of men and women but their future potential. Besides Pope B16 was brought up in a very anti nazi family but was forced into the Hitler Youth as most children were, his forced participation does mean he was a nazi. The holy spirit choose pope B16 not to condone racism, the holy spirit dosnt choose popes on their past tenious affiliations to condone or condemn anything but on their love for Christ and their willingness to do God’s will. The church does not consider our pasts as obsticals to our future.

Now for some anti slavery quotes.

Ex 6:6

“I will free you from being slaves to them”

Le 25:42

Because the Israelites are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt, they must not be sold as slaves.

2 Ch 8:9
But Solomon did not make slaves of the Israelites


John 8: 31 – 37

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?" Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know you are Abraham's descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word.





Rom 6:6

For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin


Rom 16:18

You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

1 Co 7:23

You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.

Eph 6:9

masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

Col 4:1

Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.

2 Pet 2:19

“man is a slave to whatever has mastered him”

Mt 6:24

No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other.

1 co 7:22

he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave.

Ga 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ga 5:1

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Ga 5:13

You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.



It is foolish to think that Christianity and the bible condone slavery of one human being to another human being, we are all slaves to God.

When the bible tells a slave to treat his master with respect and dignity it is to show respect and dignity to God, for the slave is not a slave to his master but a slave to God.

And when a master treats his slave with respect and dignity it is to show respect and dignity to a a slave of God and so it is as soon as the master sees his slave as deserving of respect and dignity that he can no longer keep him as a slave and must be set free.

If Christianity and the teachings in the bible are so pro slavery of men to other men why was their a large majority of slaves who were Christian?

You can not serve two masters, but as a slave treat your slave master with respect and suffer all things for the glory of the doctrines of our lord, in order that you maybe a light for your slavemaster who walks in darkness and in your suffering and persistant love for your master by the will of God he may come to the doctrines you obay and win your freedom and the freedom of your fellow slaves.

"The "catholic copy" was the King James' version for a very long time. "

The KJV always was a protestant bible, king James was a protestant!

Guest!! Learn more about bibles!! There are many different kinds for many different denominations and all are equally valid. (If you consider bibles valid at all)

There are many different bibles but not all bibles are valid, those apporved of Catholic Church are valid and those that are not are not valid.

It is easy to distinguish a Catholic Bible from a protestant bible just by the number of Books in the OT.

A protestant bible is not the same OT as Jesus used and is therefore not valid.

God saved the slaves because they were mistreated. Up until then he did nothing.

The only thing you really proved Guest is that the bible contradicts itself.

Like the Catholic Church contradicts itself. So go ahead. Tell all the gay people that they are living in sin. While I'm sure someone in your family is commiting at least one of the deadly sins and not living up to all the Leviticus codes.

I have no respect for the Catholic church and the atrocities it has commited throughout the years.

BUT that's not Catholic faith huh? It's so nice to seperate and ignore things when it is convenient. Blah blah blah.

I'm pretty much done with this debate, because like I said before, you cannot clap with one hand.

I'm bore with this one. Why don't you start a post and Defend Bush so I can get in on that. Now that sounds like some fun.

By the way, aren't the Jewish people the chosen ones? Are you Jewish too?


Eric

HAHAHAHAHA!
I would defend Bush, but not the president.

I actually went through and extracted several quotes from the two different versions of Job, and then my laptop died because I forgot to plug it in -_- Basically, go to the Book of Job. The very first chapter (from the website you have me) is the Prose version. It says Job was without sin, and in the end after all the bad stuff happened to him (which God has Satan do to him for no reason...) it says that he was still without sin and never questioned God.

The poetry, however, is a very different story. Literally. It is far longer, and almost all of it consists of Job... complaining! He is questioning God and God's very messed up sense of justice. He says, "Those who are sinful and deny him are saved and exalted, yet me, who is without sin, I get nothing. I get punished!" Finally God comes down and pretty much b**ch slaps Job. Job says "Hey, I can't compete with you, I just thought it was all really unfair." God concedes to this, and gives Job twice as much as he'd had before his fall.

The holy spirit shooses the pope. LMBO at that. Gimme a break.

And the bible doesn't condone slavery. How many passages do I have to put up showing that it did just that? In the name of God with a capital G?

LOL Marianne. I'll defend that bush too .

Eric

First off I am not a conservitive or a liberal, neither a republican or a democrat. I am a Catholic, i dont have any political alligence, I vote according to who I believe would be the better president.

I am not going to defend G W B or attack him, he has been voted into that Job by the American people and that is all I need to know that he is the right man for the Job. I may not agree with all of his policies but that is life.



Sorry Eiri without chapter and verse I can not help you.


"By the way, aren't the Jewish people the chosen ones? Are you Jewish too? "

In one sense no, in another sense yes.

"God saved the slaves because they were mistreated. Up until then he did nothing. "

If you want to believe that, that is upto you but it is simply not the biblical reason, it is right there in exodus, 'I am Yahweh your God who brought you out of Egypt, where you lived as slaves.
'You shall have no other gods to rival me.”

To understand slavery is to understand what God means. When a man enslaves another man he is raising himself above that man. this is done by "dehumanizing" the enslaved person making him less than a person. All human beings are of supreem worth and dignity in the eyes of God because they are his creation. They are very much persons to him. when one group of people set themselves above another group of people they set themselves up as gods over them, it is they who deem themselves to be gods able to decide who is to have rights and dignity and who is not, they choose the worth of each slave. God would not have this.... "you shall have no other gods to rival me"

If the Egyptians saw the Jews as a creation of God with supreem dignity and worth and understood that it was the same God that gave the egyptians the same supreem diginity and worth then they would have freed the people themselves.

and so Col 4:1 says

"Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven. "

If the slave masters were to provide the slaves with what is right and fair in the eyes of God, they would let the slaves be free men.

Slavery still prevails today in the west, America is not a free nation, it is under the yoke of slavery except the chains and the shackles have been replaced with Plastic Cards, overdrafts and your masters are banks. Working for one meal a day has been replaced with food as and when you want it, big houses, expensive cars etc. The slaves standard of living is increased but dont be fooled you are just a slave.

America was intended to be the land of the free, America was the protestant dream intended to be the crown of protestant Christianity. It has become the sess pit of lies and deciet, a prostitute who prostitutes itself, the people who sell themselves on false promises of happiness in personal wealth and materialism and the pursuite of pleasure and every where you turn you see the people trying to knumb the pain cause they know its all a lie.

America, the true America is something built into every living human being on this planet, freedom is yours for the taking, true happiness exists, true liberty and justice is only found in the one true God.........

"You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men"

America, America!!!

woe unto you America, for the house that was built for your servent has become the house of the tyrant, woe unto you america for the men who were to become your servents have become your masters, woe unto you America for the law abiding man is neglected and the scoundrels exhalted. Woe unto you America, flag ship of the protestant reformation for your ship is sinking.

Glory to God from whom all life, all freedom all Good things come, Glory to God for he has delivered us from the hands of our enslavers, and set us free to be adopted Children of Christ. Glory to God for the servents he sends to us, Glory to God for exhalting the Good man and bringing to nothing the scoundrel, Glory to you oh God for the Flagship of Christ still sails upon the holy see, despite the winds and the rain and all the trials and tribulations it has endured... Blessed Be God forever!

::::::::::puke::::::::::

God darnit, you can't even find Job in the bible? Some catholic you are.

Here, all laid out for you:



Now, it is true that Job never does renounce God to His face in the prose or the poetry, despite the fact that this is all just a game God and Satan are playing. If God is god, then why the heck does he need to prove anything to Satan? Why are the two of them even talking, like old chums nonetheless?

Well, here's more prose. Let's skip to the ending, we all know what a big jerk God is:


Now, I've bolded that last section for one singular reason: In the poetry which follows... Job DOES charge God with wrongdoing! Not to God's face of course (it's GOD, for christ's sake!), but during a ridiculously long debate with some priests, he calls out God as unfair, cruel, uncaring, and all around sadistic. Let's take a look:



I'm sorry for the length.

But if all you did was scroll through, please read this section:

1. You can CLEARLY see a stylistic difference between the prose and the poetry. They were not written at the same time.
2. The poetry's story is far different from the prose's!
3. Job questions God. A lot. Like, constantly.
4. He definitely accuses God of wrongdoing!! So the two versions of Job don't even agree with each other!

Your two quotes are from the same version of Job, the Same book of Job, it is a linear story, it does not make sense to say that they are two different versions, Job is one linear story.

A story that deals with the problem of evil in the world. At first Job had no reason to defame God, why should he had all his wealth and fine living, is the love of another dependent upon the things they can give you. God allows satan to test the love of Job, satan says look if you take away the things you have given him, Job will defame you, God says you have dominion over his property but do not touch his person. It is when all he has is destroyed Job cries out, "I came into this world naked and I shall leave this world naked" what God has given he has taken away, blessed by God. and no fault was found in Job.

But Satan wanted to have control of his person and was sure this would cause Job to defame God and so job was tormented by illness and extreem suffering and he did indeed blaspheme God, he accused God of wrong doing of the cause of his pain, but God had not caused it, it was Satan who had Caused it, he had accused God Falsely. The more he accused God the more the suffering exponded, until God finally explained it to him at which point Job repented of his own wrong doing and saw the righteousness of God. Job now exclaims the joy of suffering for God, That God permits evil to bring about a greater good "I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, But now my eye sees you."

They are not two different versions, but one linear story

but God had not caused it, it was Satan who had Caused it, he had accused God Falsely.


But God allowed it. Didn't he? God let Satan use Job as some pawn to show his faith? Seems a little insecure to me.

It kind of reminds me of Rudolph. It's supposed to be a feel good story, but watch it closer. Santa is a jerk, Rudolph's dad is a jerk. Everyone is a jerk to him. They won't play with him because he different. They think that he is a freak. Nobody liked him until he could do something for them.

And Job is supposed to be a feel good story, but it sounds more like an unncessary stroking of the ego to me.


Eric