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Verizon-y

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Poll States More People Think Islam Is Liberating For Women
Posted: 10-18-07 15:58pm

Poll states more people think Islam is LIBERATING for women than OPPRESSING.

Please click on the link and take this poll, because some nuts out there have skewed it so that the "liberating" answer was leading earlier:

Are Islamic codes of conduct for women more liberating or more oppressive?
Islam is generally oppressive to women, treating them as being less than equal to men.
Islam is generally liberating to women, freeing them from sexual pressures that exist elsewhere.
Islam is generally neutral - there are both oppressive and liberating aspects that, in the end, cancel out.
I don't know.
I don't care
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Rodge

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Posted: 10-18-07 16:28pm

Uh... okay. Personally, I'd prefer to be able to wear whatever I wanted without society enforcing sexual pressure. But whatever, you guys. Just stay away from me.

My mother had a traditionalist Muslim guy spit on her once, because she was wearing shorts and a T-shirt in the supermarket. person.
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Georgia59

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Posted: 10-18-07 17:05pm

But we are suppressed in the same way-

women in America (or the UK) are expected to dress, well, normally. We are expected to look nice and not wear anything crazy.

I have heard the argument that the pressures to dress a certain way in Islamic culture is freeing, and I buy it. I think though, that it doesn't matter what we think. It only really matters what they think, because culture is relative.

When actual Islamic women start calling out to stop and for help from us to help them stop, we can go help. But it seems that they are ok with it for now.
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Tylanas

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Posted: 10-18-07 17:43pm

If it was a CHOICE to wear the burka then I wouldn't care. I think it is just as bad to make it illegal to wear the burka as it is to force it.

Also, if ALL THE OTHER oppressive factors of the religion were gone then again it wouldn't matter.
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Verizon-y

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Posted: 10-18-07 17:45pm

Georgia59 wrote:
But we are suppressed in the same way-

women in America (or the UK) are expected to dress, well, normally. We are expected to look nice and not wear anything crazy.

I have heard the argument that the pressures to dress a certain way in Islamic culture is freeing, and I buy it. I think though, that it doesn't matter what we think. It only really matters what they think, because culture is relative.

When actual Islamic women start calling out to stop and for help from us to help them stop, we can go help. But it seems that they are ok with it for now.


OH MY GOD.
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Rodge

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Posted: 10-18-07 17:53pm

futureshock wrote:

OH MY GOD.


I just LOL'd in real life and I'm not even sure why. Laughing
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Jincks013

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Posted: 10-19-07 07:37am

actually Georgia has a point here.. how many female corporate officers do you see with a feminine look? they wear basically mens suits or severely tailored mens suits with a below the knee acceptable skirt. They usually have short haircuts; like having long hair somehow makes them 'less'.
Its only been recent that women in the U.S. Airforce could be fighter pilots; women are still non-combatants in conflicts; where I work few supervisory staff are women; even when we go out. If I wear jeans and a nice top its 'okay' but if I wear a mini and a low cut top I am a tramp; womens clothes ares still dictated by men.
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Sandbox Party

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Posted: 10-19-07 14:18pm

Jincks013 wrote:
If I wear jeans and a nice top its 'okay' but if I wear a mini and a low cut top I am a tramp; womens clothes ares still dictated by men.


well, not really.

I think plenty of women look *trashy*. Im not a man. I judge what other women are wearing CONSTANTLY. its just a thing i do in myhead when im out in public. 'Man she looks tacky." or 'wow, i bet her back is the most profitable part of her body'.. im guilty of it.

SOCIETY has dictated how women AND men should look, for hundreds of years. Its not just men; women from every walk of life have views on whats acceptable and not. I personally dont think its right to wear it *if it fits*. Age, body size, occupation, CHILDREN need to be considered. I wouldnt dress like a tramp around my kids.. they dont deserve to see that. It shows lack of respect for myself and those around me.
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Rodge

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Posted: 10-19-07 14:36pm

Why do you care so much? They're just clothes. I occasionally wonder if someone is cold, but that's about it.

I would go into the the patriarchy and societal expectations, but I am so tired that I wouldn't make sense. Stupid insomnia.
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AyaMiyaki

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Posted: 10-19-07 15:05pm

I think people should wear what they want, as long as their naughtier bits are covered. If I see someone out that's wearing something revealing, I usually think to myself "Wow, I wish I had the confidence to wear that."

I feel sorry for those women. Sad
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Sandbox Party

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Posted: 10-19-07 20:03pm

AyaMiyaki wrote:
I think people should wear what they want, as long as their naughtier bits are covered. If I see someone out that's wearing something revealing, I usually think to myself "Wow, I wish I had the confidence to wear that."

I feel sorry for those women. Sad


its not a question of self confidence.. its self respect.

like those overweight obese women who wear spandex and belly tops.

Its just.. gross to look at. and to me it seems demeaning.
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AyaMiyaki

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Posted: 10-19-07 20:20pm

So don't look at them. Obviously they like the way they look, and as long as they're not flashing anything pornographic they don't have an obligation to dress the way you would like them to.

I think self-respect and self-confidence go hand in hand, personally.
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Sandbox Party

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Posted: 10-19-07 20:38pm

AyaMiyaki wrote:
So don't look at them. Obviously they like the way they look, and as long as they're not flashing anything pornographic they don't have an obligation to dress the way you would like them to.

I think self-respect and self-confidence go hand in hand, personally.


yes, they do go hand in hand.

to a point.

however.. society has deemed walking around in a g-string and halter top with steletto's and fishnet stockings with holes in them as inappropriate.

If you own a business and were looking for perspective employees, and a woman walked in smelling to high heaven and looked like she got dressed out of a dumptster, would you even consider her as an employee? I wouldnt. Its not discrimination.. its common sense. That person would represent your business, and thats not a message you want to get across.

I dont agree with making women wear clothing covering their entire body.. but i understand why they do it. If you look at it the correct way, its all out of respect for their wives and they dont want other men looking at them in a sexual manner. Im sure there are a lot of men out there in the USA or UK that would want their wives to do the same to keep other male eyes off of her.
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AyaMiyaki

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Posted: 10-19-07 20:46pm

You can get arrested for wearing a g-string in public - indecent exposure. You can't get arrested for wearing a tube top if you're overweight.

And quite a few things are deemed inappropriate by "society" - homosexuals walking down the street holding hands, for instance. Should they feel ashamed of themselves because somebody else doesn't like what they see? No.

And unless the overweight tube-top wearing woman was applying for a job, I don't see a problem with her wearing what she likes. No one says you have to like it - but your opinion is yours, and should not dictate what other people are required to do.

If my husband were to tell me to cover up to keep other men from looking at me, I'd laugh in his face. He doesn't own me. I'm not his property. And if other men want to take a peek, they're free to do so. That's as close to me as they're ever going to get. My husband trusts me and knows that I'm loyal. It's good enough for him. In fact, it's an ego boost to him when we go out and someone checks me out. He says to himself "That's right, she's with me."
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Jincks013

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Posted: 10-20-07 07:08am

I have a very high self esteem and I wear 'trashy' clothes sometimes; I wear everything from jeans and tee's to leather mini's and corsets. What I wear is no ones business but my own.
ITs not about 'self respect' its about someone else thinking they have the right to define my wardrobe for me. Again.. its all about control.
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Birch

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Posted: 10-20-07 10:57am

Georgia59 wrote:
But we are suppressed in the same way-

women in America (or the UK) are expected to dress, well, normally. We are expected to look nice and not wear anything crazy.

I have heard the argument that the pressures to dress a certain way in Islamic culture is freeing, and I buy it. I think though, that it doesn't matter what we think. It only really matters what they think, because culture is relative.

When actual Islamic women start calling out to stop and for help from us to help them stop, we can go help. But it seems that they are ok with it for now.


I agree Georgia.

Women are supposed to look like men in a professional setting.

While not as extreme as requiring a burka and all that women's sin b.s. it is foolish to think that women in the US n' A are 'free' to dress as they will.
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marvel

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Re: Poll States More People Think Islam Is Liberating For Wo
Posted: 10-22-07 07:07am

futureshock wrote:
Poll states more people think Islam is LIBERATING for women than OPPRESSING.

Please click on the link and take this poll, because some nuts out there have skewed it so that the "liberating" answer was leading earlier:

Are Islamic codes of conduct for women more liberating or more oppressive?
Islam is generally oppressive to women, treating them as being less than equal to men.
Islam is generally liberating to women, freeing them from sexual pressures that exist elsewhere.
Islam is generally neutral - there are both oppressive and liberating aspects that, in the end, cancel out.
I don't know.
I don't care


I bet many Muslim women answered this survey. There's a huge wave in Islam right now, promoting its liberating factor with women.

I personally don't think covering up in a burqa is necessarily liberating. HOWEVER, since many educated, well informed Muslim women still do it and firmly believe they are liberated... who am I to disagree? (The reason why I say educated and well informed is because it's easy to say "I'm liberated" when you're programmed to say it... ie: not well informed and educated)
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Georgia59

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Posted: 10-22-07 13:01pm

I've spoken with Muslim women who have told me they like wearing the burka (and still do here in the us) because it means something to them. To some of them, it doesn't represent oppression, it represents liberation and humility. If they want to do that, that's fine. And unless Muslim women start saying "I am oppressed, help me!!" we have no right to judge their culture. The Muslim culture is really vibrant where i live, and I know a lot of women who wear it because they want to. Who am I to tell them, "Oh, you are so oppressed, you're culture is so awful, let me dress you the way I want to dress you......"
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Georgia59

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Posted: 10-22-07 13:07pm

Let me begin this by saying that I am not referring to anyone in this forum...

I HATE bleeding hearts who get on a cause before they learn anything about it and fight for something they know nothing about. That's so, "I saw it on Oprah-esque."
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Jincks013

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Posted: 10-23-07 06:39am

You've got a good point Georgia. .
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