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jim from jersey

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Hernia Mesh Posted: 10-26-07 10:27am


To all who posts on this site. If you are still having complications due to a hernia mesh or any medical mesh you must begin by helping yourself. There are not many doctors that will listen to your complaints about that you feel the mesh is the root cause of you dibilitating pain. The first thing you must do is GO TO THE FDA and fill out an adverse event report. This is the first step in getting the help you so desperatly need. You see, it is easier for the doctors to put the mesh in than it is for them to take it out, they are afraid of lawsuits, so must force the FDA top make these doctors take it out. Right now all these doctors will do for you is trat your pain and not the root cause of your pain(THE MESH) trust me I know, that is what I am living thru right now, and it is absolutely not fun at all. Everyone here needs to understand the importance of filing the adverse event form. It is the first step in getting these doctors to believe us. It does absolutely no good to come here and complain about your symptoms unless you fill out the FDA form. I along with a few others are beginning our fight for all, to help get these implants off the market and make those who make them accountable please do not hesitate to contact me. Jim

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Completely Agree Posted: 12-02-07 18:27pm


I agree with you on this problem, it is terrible what is happening to us all. These meshes are causing so many problems for a lot of people. Even if your mesh has not been recalled the only way the FDA will know about problems is by filling out the form mentioned above. You may also want to contact the manufacturer of the mesh. Get copies of your medical records make sure they include the operative report, on this form it should say what type of mesh was used with a product and lot number. If it's not on that form then ask them for this information. It is very important to have this info when filing a complaint. You would be surprised at how medical records can disappear. Please if you are in any pain listen to your body, it's not in your head this is a real problem.

jim from jersey

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Hernia Help Posted: 12-03-07 09:03am


to all please do not hesitate to pm me if you are suffering from a hernia mesh or mesh implant, there is much you need to know and what you face.

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Posted: 02-11-08 10:09am


Jim Do you have any more information on the meshes and the FDA?

jim from jersey

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Hernia mesh Posted: 02-11-08 18:18pm


Butterfly, what is it you would like to know?I have quite a bit of info on how the FDA is progressing. Again, to everyone else, if you are having complications from a mesh implant please fill out an Adverse Event Report, it does not take to much time and is very essential in helping getting you better. You should also fill out an adverse event report for any implant or deficient health care, it really is a very helpful tool.

lisao1013

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Hernia mesh patch Posted: 06-21-08 11:43am


I'm a 43yr old female , I had a abd hernia repair in 2005 with a mesh patch used, recently I have unexplained abd symptoms..first of all let me mention when I had the surgery within 3 weeks it was infected the suture line would not close and and an internal abd suture that was suppose to desolve kept sticking out, then that was removed ,I was put on antiobitocs and it closed, reccently I have had unexplained various abd syptoms within the past year , a low b12 so low I need to give myself b12 injections every 2 weeks I have had and abd US they haven't called with the results, I am fatuigued extremley blaoted esp after meals, excuse me but extrememly foal smelling gas..I can't button any of my pants anymore..my abd is so huge esp after meals I look at least 6mo. pregnant I feel as it will pop..I have various bowel movements, some yellow, some reg in color, but mostly flaky and diarrhea and upper abd pain, I wake up every morning, with the need to have a BM..and early I have at least 4-5..the pain is not bad or bm's if I don't eat but I am becoming depressed and this is no way to live..I also have indigestion in am before meals (ON AN EMPTY STOAMCH!)..and after heartburn, and my stomach feels like it's on fire after eating..my doctor has given me an RX for flagyl ,he's thinking it maybe and intestinal colitis, of some kind,or IBS... but hey ,this has been going on for 6 mo the flagyl did not work..then he ordered an ultrasound and from the labs seen my b12 was so low, I have it seems ia disfigured belly, a bump where the surgery was and off to the left, the size of an egg.that's where it hurts, when it hurts)..I have nauseau , at times..I feel this is all so coincidental and started surfing the internet and found this re: mesh patches!! it 's unbelievable..I think there may be a connection., that or from surfing I have s/s of ovarian cancer YIKES (cuz I haven't had a gyn check in 2 yrs.) HELP is there a doc out there that can give his opnion asap.! suffering.

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Re: Hernia mesh patch
Posted: 06-21-08 16:46pm

lisao1013 wrote:

I'm a 43yr old female , I had a abd hernia repair in 2005 with a mesh patch used, recently I have unexplained abd symptoms..first of all let me mention when I had the surgery within 3 weeks it was infected the suture line would not close and and an internal abd suture that was suppose to desolve kept sticking out, then that was removed ,I was put on antiobitocs and it closed, reccently I have had unexplained various abd syptoms within the past year , a low b12 so low I need to give myself b12 injections every 2 weeks I have had and abd US they haven't called with the results, I am fatuigued extremley blaoted esp after meals, excuse me but extrememly foal smelling gas..I can't button any of my pants anymore..my abd is so huge esp after meals I look at least 6mo. pregnant I feel as it will pop..I have various bowel movements, some yellow, some reg in color, but mostly flaky and diarrhea and upper abd pain, I wake up every morning, with the need to have a BM..and early I have at least 4-5..the pain is not bad or bm's if I don't eat but I am becoming depressed and this is no way to live..I also have indigestion in am before meals (ON AN EMPTY STOAMCH!)..and after heartburn, and my stomach feels like it's on fire after eating..my doctor has given me an RX for flagyl ,he's thinking it maybe and intestinal colitis, of some kind,or IBS... but hey ,this has been going on for 6 mo the flagyl did not work..then he ordered an ultrasound and from the labs seen my b12 was so low, I have it seems ia disfigured belly, a bump where the surgery was and off to the left, the size of an egg.that's where it hurts, when it hurts)..I have nauseau , at times..I feel this is all so coincidental and started surfing the internet and found this re: mesh patches!! it 's unbelievable..I think there may be a connection., that or from surfing I have s/s of ovarian cancer YIKES Sad

(cuz I haven't had a gyn check in 2 yrs.) HELP is there a doc out there that can give his opnion asap.! suffering.

It sounds like you are having problems from the mesh.
Please read the sticky at the top of the hernia forum.
There's some information there.
Doctors are not in tune to the problems these meshes are creating. Trust me I honestly know what you are saying and how you are feeling.
You need to research mesh complications, find a surgeon who will listen to you. It sometimes takes seeing 10 or doctors before getting treated.
Be careful of being told it's nothing. I knoe you mentioned colitis or IBS this another thing doctors are telling people they have which they very well may have it.
Do you know what type of mesh you have in you? The brand or product name?
You can get this info from the surgeon or the hospital.
Everything you mention makes me beleive it's the mesh.
I hope to god I'm wrong but listen to your body (as you are) and keep fighting for answers.

Artie

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mesh nightmare Posted: 07-02-08 09:54am


There has been tremendous medical denial about mesh problems (infections, adhesions, migrations, and especially mesh rejection). The med's haven't wanted to admit this, until the situation got so bad it's now all over the place. Who knows, the Kugel Patch horror may prove to be just the tip of a huge iceberg....... This is the everyday surgical procedure that is so often billed as "a piece of cake...... so simple, so easy, so safe, nothing to worry about......" When I tell friends about the mesh situation, they don't know WHAT I'm even talking about. Even those with hernias don't know. They think I'm making it up. Until I show them some of the websites, reports, studies, etc. Personally I'm scared to death to have hernia surgery due to this and am doing "watchful waiting" in the HOPE & PRAYER that they ditch the plastic meshes and come up with something much safer......fast. I recently saw one research site which said that plastic meshes will probably be phased out "during the next five years......" How nice. If I could, I'd go to to the Shouldice Hernia Clinic in Toronto, the world's best hernia hospital, where they NEVER use mesh. They always get top ratings in terms of recurrences and complications (both virtually nil). Also Dr Desarda's Hernia Clinic in India. No mesh. Ever. Due to the horror-list of complications. There are new "bio" meshes made of porcine (pig) intestine that are supposedly showing good results. These are natural products, rather than plastic, so they don't provoke the strong foreign-body reaction associated with plastic. It's shocking that they are continuing to use plastic mesh when so many reports of horrible complications are showing up everywhere. Recent studies in Europe are showing chronic groin pain in 30% of hernia repair patients, and the researchers usually attribute this to mesh. Plastic sheets left in the body? Is anyone surprised at the result? A doc friend advised me: "no mesh. EVER". This, coming from a doc....... Trouble is, it's often impossible to get a repair done the "old" way, because hardly any surgeons have been trained in that method since mesh repair took over in the 1990s. Very, very scary. I only hope I can hold out long enough for something safer than what's on offer now. I can't get to Toronto (or India). Blessings and best of luck to everyone out there who is suffering with this. It's happening all over the world, wherever this practice has been employed. PLEASE, let everyone know about it. The bigger the issue becomes, the more of a chance for an improvement.

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Re: mesh nightmare
Posted: 07-03-08 22:05pm

Artie wrote:

There has been tremendous medical denial about mesh problems (infections, adhesions, migrations, and especially mesh rejection). The med's haven't wanted to admit this, until the situation got so bad it's now all over the place. Who knows, the Kugel Patch horror may prove to be just the tip of a huge iceberg.......

This is the everyday surgical procedure that is so often billed as "a piece of cake...... so simple, so easy, so safe, nothing to worry about......"

When I tell friends about the mesh situation, they don't know WHAT I'm even talking about. Even those with hernias don't know. They think I'm making it up. Until I show them some of the websites, reports, studies, etc.

Personally I'm scared to death to have hernia surgery due to this and am doing "watchful waiting" in the HOPE & PRAYER that they ditch the plastic meshes and come up with something much safer......fast.

I recently saw one research site which said that plastic meshes will probably be phased out "during the next five years......" How nice.

If I could, I'd go to to the Shouldice Hernia Clinic in Toronto, the world's best hernia hospital, where they NEVER use mesh. They always get top ratings in terms of recurrences and complications (both virtually nil). Also Dr Desarda's Hernia Clinic in India. No mesh. Ever. Due to the horror-list of complications.

There are new "bio" meshes made of porcine (pig) intestine that are supposedly showing good results. These are natural products, rather than plastic, so they don't provoke the strong foreign-body reaction associated with plastic.

It's shocking that they are continuing to use plastic mesh when so many reports of horrible complications are showing up everywhere. Recent studies in Europe are showing chronic groin pain in 30% of hernia repair patients, and the researchers usually attribute this to mesh.

Plastic sheets left in the body? Is anyone surprised at the result?

A doc friend advised me: "no mesh. EVER". This, coming from a doc.......

Trouble is, it's often impossible to get a repair done the "old" way, because hardly any surgeons have been trained in that method since mesh repair took over in the 1990s. Very, very scary. I only hope I can hold out long enough for something safer than what's on offer now. I can't get to Toronto (or India).

Blessings and best of luck to everyone out there who is suffering with this. It's happening all over the world, wherever this practice has been employed. PLEASE, let everyone know about it. The bigger the issue becomes, the more of a chance for an improvement.

Artie please see my response to you under hernia pain, symptoms. I am still relatively new to this site and still feeling my way around on how to respond to people. This site seems to me to be a much friendlier site than some others out there. You are right though, the Bio Meshes are said to be safer for the body, the only one I would have a problem with is the Bio-mesh made from human Dermis as these types of products need to be reconstituted before implant. What I see happening is this, when they harvest from human cadavers to make the implant, who is to say that when it is freeze dried all the contaminants are killed of. They may only go dormant until the product is reconstituted, then any virus or disease that cadaver may have had would then be implanted in to the patient. This has already happened. I say this from experience in what I saw, you see, my brothers were hemophiliacs, and used a dried version of factor 7 and 8 which is nothing more than freeze dried blood from donors, before using the product, it had to be reconstituted and the pushed into the body by a syringe. Well unknowingly to my brothers the AIDS virus was contaminated in the dried products. The Blood companies knew of this, the Red Cross Knew of this, and The Blood banks knew of this but it was a huge cover up on their part. Well needless to say, my brothers are gone now but they live thru me and my memories of them. So I say again, that anything that is derived from a human cadaver for use as an implant must be seriously researched and you would want to do that for any surgery you might have (research).

Artie

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hernia bio mesh Posted: 07-09-08 17:00pm


Your loss is extremely tragic. Please accept my fullest understanding. I've lost many friends to AIDS. Horrible......... According to what I've been told by medical people about the AIDS virus, it must remain in surroundings at near-normal human body temperature in order to survive. How does that explain its surviving freeze-dried conditions? It shows how little they know, and how much of all this is theory. Personally, I would like to see no more mesh of any kind. I live in hope that the med's will either develop a completely new technique that doesn't use mesh at all, or that they'll revive the famous Shouldice method that uses no mesh and is highly successful when carried out correctly. The mesh method is quicker and more easily learned than the much more complex Shouldice technique, therefore it has taken over. Unfortunately, little did they realize all the serious problems that would start showing up.............. The med's were warned by reports in the early 1990s about the unknown dangers of implanting plastics in the human body. However a whole generation of surgeons has been trained in no other method. So there are usually no alternatives. Scary. There are bio meshes made from porcine (pig) materials. Permacol and Surgisis are two of these; there may be more (?). These contain no human tissue and are reportedly showing promising results so far. Like you, personally I don't feel safe with the idea of human tissue implanted in my body. Nor plastic. I keep hoping........ and hoping............. Meanwhile Cornell University recently did a hernia repair study using dogs. 50% of the mesh group developed complications. 0% of the Shouldice (non-mesh) group developed complications. Scary arithmetic. The more research you do, the scarier all this becomes. I'm in the UK. This subject is never mentioned on the news, in the media, etc. Nobody knows about it, not even the people I know with hernias. Most people think hernia surgery is "a piece of cake"........

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hernia mesh complicationss Posted: 07-19-08 19:57pm


My husband had an incisional hernia repair last August (2007) The surgeon used Proceed mesh mfg. by Ethicon. The leakage from the surgical incision was quite heavy and turned yellowish and had a very foul odor. The surgeon advised this was normal and he would see us in his office in a few days. When he saw my husband and the amount and odor of the leakage, he knew immediately there was a problem. My husband had a catscan which revealed a fistula which produced a hole in the bowel. They tried for 19 days, in the hospital with NO food or liquids, to clear this up with heavy doses of antibiotics administered intravenously. It didn't work and they had to do a second surgery and remove the mesh patch. He has had nothing but pain and problems since. His abdomen is constantly bloated, hard as a rock and grotesque looking. After I found this forum, I did go to the site recommended and filled out the form. I was contacted by Ethicon and asked many questions, including my permission to contact the surgeon that operated on my husband. I have NO problem with the surgeon. I have now received a letter from Ethicon explaining how great their Proceed mesh is and that the problems my husband is experiencing must be caused by an allergy to the mesh. They told me to contact my doctor for further help. Has anyone pursued a lawsuit against Ethicon? Causing this much pain and suffering to so many people is horrifying.

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Re: hernia mesh complications
Posted: 07-19-08 20:26pm

oviedogal wrote:

My husband had an incisional hernia repair last August (2007) The surgeon used Proceed mesh mfg. by Ethicon. The leakage from the surgical incision was quite heavy and turned yellowish and had a very foul odor. The surgeon advised this was normal and he would see us in his office in a few days. When he saw my husband and the amount and odor of the leakage, he knew immediately there was a problem. My husband had a catscan which revealed a fistula which produced a hole in the bowel. They tried for 19 days, in the hospital with NO food or liquids, to clear this up with heavy doses of antibiotics administered intravenously. It didn't work and they had to do a second surgery and remove the mesh patch. He has had nothing but pain and problems since. His abdomen is constantly bloated, hard as a rock and grotesque looking. After I found this forum, I did go to the site recommended and filled out the form. I was contacted by Ethicon and asked many questions, including my permission to contact the surgeon that operated on my husband. I have NO problem with the surgeon. I have now received a letter from Ethicon explaining how great their Proceed mesh is and that the problems my husband is experiencing must be caused by an allergy to the mesh. They told me to contact my doctor for further help. Has anyone pursued a lawsuit against Ethicon? Causing this much pain and suffering to so many people is horrifying.

Hi and Welcome to eheatlh
I'm so glad you filled out the adverse event report. There are some suits against certain manufacturers, you can do a goggle search on this. Not all meshes are recalled but it doesn't mean those meshes are not causing problems for people..they are causing the same problems as the ones recalled, along with other problems.
The surgeon was probably very good as you mentioned but these products fail and when they do they fail they do so big time.
I'm very sorry for all you and husband are going through.
Get his operative report with the product and lot numbers of the mesh used. You can get this info from the hospital or from the surgeon himself.

How did the doctor repair the hernia after removing the mesh?
Personally I would not talk to the company of the mesh anymore. I'm surprised they spoke with you and sent you a letter.
Did the surgeon say if the mesh balled up, folded, crumbled, etc..? Nerves entrapped??
It's apparent he developed an infection which has happened to many people who have meshes implanted in them.
Feel free to pm me or post back here if you'd like.

Don't give up...keep fighting for answers, it may take but you will get there...been there and still dealing with so much from the fall out from this mess.

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Re: hernia mesh complicationss
Posted: 07-20-08 09:15am

oviedogal wrote:

I am sorry for your husband and you to have to be going thru this. This info brings back many bad memories for many people. It seem to be the normal thing with all of these meshes Ethicon, Davol/Bard, Goretex and the likes. I also suggest as Serenity did to get the records from the Hospital where the surgery was performed and before the surgeon can change his records get a copy of them also. As you have probably seen thruout this forum there are many with complications, the members here do not even scartch the tip of the iceberg of all that are suffereing complications from all of these products. I am one of a few who is speaking to the FDA on a weekly basis as to the horrible complications from these products. The FDA is finally investigating all the mesh products on the market, I am fighting for some kind of disclosure from the FDA to warn the public of the adverse events of the meshes (ALL OF THEM). I am only one of thousands of mesh sufferers, But I am the one who said I am not going to put up with crap. I have been fighting for more than 2 1/2 years with the FDA and have brought another woman into the fight along side of me who is very knowledgable about the mesh complications. I have also find Serenity here on this forum to be very up to date on the complications of these products and have asked her also to fight with us. This madness has got to stop and I do see a slight lite at the end of the tunnel.

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mesh dangers Posted: 07-20-08 14:03pm


I'm also very, very sorry about your husband and anyone else out there who is suffering as a result of this. Yes, it's madness. And it's very scary for anyone who is contemplating possible surgery. It does seem like ALL meshes are potentially dangerous, maybe because the body simply does not like a foreign object implanted in it. So the body tries to reject it, either by setting up a big inflammation that becomes infected, or by physically crumpling it, folding it, etc. I'm definitely not a doctor but this unfortunately seems fairly obvious, judging by all the horror stories. Not everyone has this happen. By no means. However there are now so many posts and websites devoted to this that it appears to be a very MAJOR problem, not some oddball thing that affects a "tiny percentage" of repair patients. Which is what so many hernia surgery websites want one to believe. Question: What do you do if you HAVE to have surgery? I'm currently doing "watchful waiting" as are at least five other people I know, two of whom are doctors (!). The reason: they, like me, are terrified of mesh complications. However what happens if pain starts developing, and surgery becomes a must? Currently ONLY the renowned Shouldice Hernia Clinic in Toronto and Dr Desarda's Hernia Clinic in India state clearly that they never use mesh. In the UK and Europe I can't find a single place that offers non-mesh repair. Not one. From what I understand, no surgeons have been trained in non-mesh repair for at least ten years (that's when mesh repair became the "gold standard"). In the UK the issue of dangerous mesh is NOT being reported. Very few UK-based posts are to be seen on the various blogs, apart from those on the UK-based Hernia Bible website. I have twice emailed the UK firm that makes Permacol, one of the new "bio" meshes (Surgisis is the one made in the USA) that SO FAR seem not to be triggering these reactions, in the hope they might lead me to surgeons in my area who use their product. Personally, I'd feel safer with "bio" than plastic, if I had to have mesh at all. Sadly, I have not received a reply from this firm. I am hoping to be able to continue "watchful waiting" until a better & safer procedure comes along. But who knows...... in the meantime it's up to everyone out there to let as many people -- and the media -- know about this issue. Also, please talk to as many people inthe medical field as possible. Let them know how widespread this is, that it's not just happening to the "freak odd case" here & there. Where I am, NOBODY knows about it. Not even hernia patients. It never receives any attention whatsoever. I am not in the medical profession and do not subscribe to medical journals, etc. Hernia patients everywhere can only HOPE this is getting some kind of attention there.

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Re: mesh dangers
Posted: 07-20-08 16:35pm

Artie wrote:

I'm also very, very sorry about your husband and anyone else out there who is suffering as a result of this. Yes, it's madness. And it's very scary for anyone who is contemplating possible surgery.

It does seem like ALL meshes are potentially dangerous, maybe because the body simply does not like a foreign object implanted in it. So the body tries to reject it, either by setting up a big inflammation that becomes infected, or by physically crumpling it, folding it, etc. I'm definitely not a doctor but this unfortunately seems fairly obvious, judging by all the horror stories.

Not everyone has this happen. By no means. However there are now so many posts and websites devoted to this that it appears to be a very MAJOR problem, not some oddball thing that affects a "tiny percentage" of repair patients. Which is what so many hernia surgery websites want one to believe.

Question: What do you do if you HAVE to have surgery? I'm currently doing "watchful waiting" as are at least five other people I know, two of whom are doctors (!). The reason: they, like me, are terrified of mesh complications.

However what happens if pain starts developing, and surgery becomes a must? Currently ONLY the renowned Shouldice Hernia Clinic in Toronto and Dr Desarda's Hernia Clinic in India state clearly that they never use mesh. In the UK and Europe I can't find a single place that offers non-mesh repair. Not one. From what I understand, no surgeons have been trained in non-mesh repair for at least ten years (that's when mesh repair became the "gold standard").

In the UK the issue of dangerous mesh is NOT being reported. Very few UK-based posts are to be seen on the various blogs, apart from those on the UK-based Hernia Bible website.

I have twice emailed the UK firm that makes Permacol, one of the new "bio" meshes (Surgisis is the one made in the USA) that SO FAR seem not to be triggering these reactions, in the hope they might lead me to surgeons in my area who use their product. Personally, I'd feel safer with "bio" than plastic, if I had to have mesh at all. Sadly, I have not received a reply from this firm.

I am hoping to be able to continue "watchful waiting" until a better & safer procedure comes along. But who knows...... in the meantime it's up to everyone out there to let as many people -- and the media -- know about this issue. Also, please talk to as many people inthe medical field as possible. Let them know how widespread this is, that it's not just happening to the "freak odd case" here & there.

Where I am, NOBODY knows about it. Not even hernia patients. It never receives any attention whatsoever. I am not in the medical profession and do not subscribe to medical journals, etc. Hernia patients everywhere can only HOPE this is getting some kind of attention there.

Hey Artie,
you are correct on many fronts here, I have found that many who are suffering are stuck in pain clinics with the mesh still implanted in their bodies. The saddest part is, that the pain doctors have the patients believing that it is a nerve injury and not the mesh, which subjects the patient to numerous nerve blocks and many types of pain medications and anti-depressants for their nerve calming abilities. When all else fails, they want to keep you on drugs but then want to implant a electrical stimulator as this is what happened to me. I elected not to have anything else implanted in my body and found an external TENS unit is quite sufficient for taking the edge off of my pain. There are still many surgeons that do practice mesh free operations, but sad to say they have been around for a while in the field and are up there in age.
There are some also who are ahead of the curve and know of the complications from these products and will take them out but all procedures are different. Some will replace mesh with mesh some do a modified shouldice with mesh, mine did a modified shouldice with out mesh thank god. I can only state from my and others that I am close to that yes the body does react to the mesh, it is a petroleum product and the body is not sure what to do with it, so it tries to encapsulate it or push it out of the body, when it can't do either is why the pain is so intense.
Once an infection sets into the implant it is very hard to treat with anti-biotics because there is no blood supply to the mesh.
Doctors have found it easier to treat symptoms rather than dig into what would be the cause of all the pain. this is why so many have so many test done, because the pain mimics other situations like irritable bowel syndrome, Diverticulitus, gall stones or a gall bladder problem some even state it is coming from a bad back.
I honestly believe that this is a growing problem with no end in sight unless the FDA puts an end to it and surgeons are trained in only one or two procredures one would be the shouldice repair Mesh Free of course and your typical Brassini repair, mesh should only be used if 1 the repair is that big, that a traditional repair won't hold, or a weak fascia and abdominal tissue, or if the patient request that it be used.
We now live in a day and age where people are health concious and do ask many questions and are advocates for their own health and well being. It is also hard to be an advocate of your own health when these medical professionals are not telling the complete truth to their patients especially about mesh complications, they would like you to believe that there is only a 1% failure rate when the numbers are more like 38%. Shame on them.

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mesh comlpication rates Posted: 07-21-08 02:49am


Yes....you're probably right.....the doctors don't want to admit the obvious. That implanted mesh is causing the problems, not some "mystery cause". I've seen several websites where doctors flatly deny that mesh rejection can even happen. It's very, very scary. Tragically, even if the problem hit the headlines tomorrow and the medical profession agreed that yes, mesh procedures had to be replaced, it would take YEARS to train a new generation of surgeons to do it a different way. For the moment, very few people even know about this. Nobody here in the UK even mentions it. Even most people awaiting hernia surgery don't know about it. Privately, the med's probably do know what's happening. A doctor friend of mine who has been in hospital practice for 40 years and is now retiring advised me recently, "never have mesh implanted. Never." No doubt he's right. However what do you do if you cannot get to the Shouldice? Everyone can't get to Toronto. In the UK and Europe virtually no surgeons are trained in non-mesh methods any longer. Mesh is the only choice available. The 1% failure rate refers only to recurrence, which mesh has largely eliminated. Tragically, it doesn't reflect those left in permanent, disabling, often crippling, pain. You are right about the 38% statistic. Study after study in several countries shows figures in the 30%+ range mentioned for Chronic Pain Syndrome following mesh surgery. What's really scary is how so many of these studies end off by stating "surgeons are trying to find the cause of this chronic pain....." Isn't it obvious? Meanwhile 99% of hernia surgery worldwide will continue to use mesh. The FDA is in the USA only. It doesn't cover the rest of the world. Even if mesh surgery ended tomorrow in the USA, it would probably continue everywhere else because surgeons & hospitals are only equipped to do mesh procedures. What does someone do who needs surgery buy doesn't want to risk these terrible complications? Question: if they have to remove the mesh and then do a non-mesh operation, why can't they do that in the first place?

GDSM

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Re: mesh comlpication rates
Posted: 07-21-08 04:24am

Artie wrote:

Yes....you're probably right.....the doctors don't want to admit the obvious. That implanted mesh is causing the problems, not some "mystery cause". I've seen several websites where doctors flatly deny that mesh rejection can even happen. It's very, very scary.

Tragically, even if the problem hit the headlines tomorrow and the medical profession agreed that yes, mesh procedures had to be replaced, it would take YEARS to train a new generation of surgeons to do it a different way.

For the moment, very few people even know about this. Nobody here in the UK even mentions it. Even most people awaiting hernia surgery don't know about it. Privately, the med's probably do know what's happening. A doctor friend of mine who has been in hospital practice for 40 years and is now retiring advised me recently, "never have mesh implanted. Never." No doubt he's right.

However what do you do if you cannot get to the Shouldice? Everyone can't get to Toronto. In the UK and Europe virtually no surgeons are trained in non-mesh methods any longer. Mesh is the only choice available.

The 1% failure rate refers only to recurrence, which mesh has largely eliminated. Tragically, it doesn't reflect those left in permanent, disabling, often crippling, pain.

You are right about the 38% statistic. Study after study in several countries shows figures in the 30%+ range mentioned for Chronic Pain Syndrome following mesh surgery. What's really scary is how so many of these studies end off by stating "surgeons are trying to find the cause of this chronic pain....." Isn't it obvious?

Meanwhile 99% of hernia surgery worldwide will continue to use mesh. The FDA is in the USA only. It doesn't cover the rest of the world. Even if mesh surgery ended tomorrow in the USA, it would probably continue everywhere else because surgeons & hospitals are only equipped to do mesh procedures. What does someone do who needs surgery buy doesn't want to risk these terrible complications?

Question: if they have to remove the mesh and then do a non-mesh operation, why can't they do that in the first place?

Artie,
The obvious answer to your last question is ease of use and time consumption verses traditional repair. It takes about 60 min. for a traditional repair verses 20 min for a mesh repair.

For someone in the UK like yourself, I would search out for an older surgeon that has been around for a while, who may still know how to do mesh free surgery. I agree that it will take quite sometime to get rid of mesh as most of the kids coming out of med school are trained in this way with mesh only, but they should want to learn other techniques as well. There is more than one way to skin a cat!

Like I said earlier if you can not get to shouldice, look for an older surgeon who has been doing surgery for 20 to 30 years, it may put him in his 60's but still a viable option.

Even the 1% that you quote as a recurrence rate is actually much higher also, the 1% is just what the doctors want you to believe. I wouldn't go on a randomized blind study that are often published, they tend to be very biased in nature and 99% of the time mesh prevails, makes you wonder, HUH?

Artie

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mesh - they do know the dangers Posted: 07-21-08 04:29am


A clinical trial reported in the British Journal of Surgery in 2006 clearly stated that polypropelene, thstudye most commonly used mesh material, can cause potentially harmful side effects including chronic inflammation and decreased abdominal wall compliance. The med's do know about this. There have been umpteen studies on this in many countries, all showing the same results. It's tragic that they are are trying to deny or downplay such a catastrophic, yet simple, thing. Several docs I've spoken to have also pooh-poohed these dangers, but I'm certain they do know the truth. None of us are doctors -- but just think of what happens when you get a splinter. The body sets up a painful red swelling around the splinter. This often gets infected as the body tries harder & harder to drive the splinter out (most of us have had this happen at some point). Isn't this probably the same process with mesh, only there's no place for the mesh to "go", so the pain gets worse & worse? Google the term "meshoma". In some people's bodies, upon removal the mesh is found to be crumpled-up or folded (!). I don't think the medical people are deliberately trying to hurt us. It may be that until fairly recently, people have not been reporting this to their surgeons, etc, thinking pain is to be expected, or some such thing. Also, mesh hasn't been around for that long in historical terms, and from some of the studies I've seen, it sometimes takes quite a long time for rejection/infection/etc to start happening. Best thing to do is talk to as many people out there as possible, especially to people in the medical field and especially the media. That's the only way change will ever happen.

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to GDSM Posted: 07-21-08 04:53am


Hi GDSM A doc-friend has advised exactly what you're advising: try to find an older surgeon trained in non-mesh methods. Thanks so much for your reply. In the UK, especially with the NHS (National Health Service) people often tend to question doctors less than they do in the USA. However there have been many articles in British medical journals about this -- I've seen them on the Net. The med's are aware of it, that's definite. The NHS has no profit motive with this (quite the reverse). So no doubt they'd LOVE to have this issue resolved as it's likely there are plenty of mesh removals happening in this country (and across Europe). Trouble is, once something becomes entrenched, it's very difficult for change to happen. As you correctly say, all the younger surgeons are ONLY trained to do mesh procedures. The medical profession can be extremely conservative as they do tend to stick to "tried & true" methods. It also probably takes years or longer for clinical trials to finally have a practical effect. Also, hernia surgery is not seen as "glamorous" .... so it attracts no media attention. Meanwhile, on a purely personal level I have contacted my doctor about this issue (he certainly knows my concerns) and am hoping to see him this week. He once told me that having hernia surgery is (quote) "like having a filling.....absolutely nothing". See, this is what we are all up against. Hmmmmm......that could be easier said than done. Like the rest of us, I am not in the medical field and do not have those sort of contacts. I wish I lived in, or near, Toronto. I agree with you about studies being skewed or biased. However even if it's reasonably accurate, the 1% rate ONLY refers to recurrences, not to Chronic Pain Syndrome or any other complications (mesh infection, etc). When it comes to those things, nearly every study is reporting in the 30%+ range. Which is why there now tends to be a slooooow drift on the part of some doc's toward advising "watchful waiting". If you read the various studies & reports on "watchful waiting vs surgery" they invariably state that "ww" may be desirable, where possible, because of the prevalence of serious, possibly untreatable surgical complications. They do know about this............ All this, with a surgical procedure so many people think of as "a piece of cake". I get this, litrally, all the time. It's very, very disturbing -- and frightening.

Artie

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oops, sorry Posted: 07-21-08 05:01am


Sorry about the messy last post. Yeah...it was all over the place. Something went wrong when I tried to cut & paste. Anyway, good luck, many thanks, and ENDLESS BLESSINGS to everyone out there who is trying so hard to get the appropriate attention paid to this critical issue. I keep hoping......