Hernia Mesh

in 1992 i had a left inguinal hernia repair with no mesh. that repair lasted until 2006 when it came back. I opted to get it repaired with mesh and to have the other side done as well. so after the bilateral hernia repair with mesh, it took about 6 months before I became pain free. that was until two months ago when i strained my left side moving something. ever since then i have been suffering with alot of pain. I had a Cat scan done and that showed no hernia and nothing abnormal. and ive had two opinions from surgeons who say the repair is still strong and that im having nerve pain from the mesh. i assume they could have seen if the mesh was out of place with the cat scan. one surgeon suggested pain management . ive been on ibuprofen for months, it doesnt do awhole lot. i have a hard time working and even lifting anything over 15 pounds. I felt great and the mesh was a miracle cure until i strained it ..... i feel ill never be normal again.

Really sorry to read your story and hope pain management is successful for you. I recently knew of someone else with almost the same story. She had mesh, she was in pain, she opted to have the mesh removed.

When the surgeon removed it, he found the repair was structurally fine, the mesh was in place, no new hernia had formed. What apparently happens (I'm no doctor, but it sounds like this may be the case, judging from the same stories that repeat over & over) is when new tissue grows in around the mesh, it entraps nerves.

Who knows if there is any way to predict exactly how new tissue (perhaps scar tissue) will grow in. Also, meshes shrink. And people's bodies change shape over time. They gain or lose weight, etc. Can mesh change along with people's bodies?

There seem to be no posts by people who've had NON-mesh surgery complaining of any sort of chronic pain. Sadly, it all seems to relate to mesh. There are posts all over the internet showing pain coming on months, even many years, afer mesh surgery.

One guy was fine for 10 years....and then the pain started. Maybe his body changed over ten years, only the mesh couldn't work with the changes (?). Could be. There seems to be no definite research or conclusions on this (yet).

I hope your pain treatments solve the problem for you. Be well.

I am speaking from experience...mesh is a problem. You are not alone, I know it doesn't solve the problem just know we are here for you.
You need to find a radiologist/surgeon who knows how read the scans and who knows what look for regarding the mesh and the many complications from them.
It's possible the nerves are pinched or entrapped.
Do you know what type of mesh you had implanted in you? If not it is important to get this information.
I have spoken to some people who have and are still suffering from the complications due to the meshes.

Once pain management starts it's a cycle that will continue, they need to find out what is causing your pain.
See as many doctors as you need to get an answer.
Feel free to pm anytime.

Keep looking for answers. Listen to your body, you know your body better than anyone.

What will it take to get the medical world to wake up & realize what is happening because of mesh?

I've just seen a recent Dutch trial (similar to the famous "watchful waiting" trial conducted by Dr Fitzgibbons of Creighton University, Omaha, Nebraska.). The study started off by saying that surgical treatment might not always be a good idea because (quote) "the percentage of patients with chronic pain after inguinal hernia repair is very high".

Similar studies have shown similar findings in the UK, Greece, Denmark, etc. The chronic pain rate after mesh surgery seems to come in at higher than 30% no matter where/how the study is done. So there is something very consistent here.

None of this, tragically, resolves any problems for those who've had mesh surgery and are experiencing often severe pain & complications. However the fast-growing mountain of evidence from all over the world should wake the med's up to what's happening with this, and they should be coming up with some answers.

It's shouldn't be about pain management AFTER the fact. It's about PREVENTING pain & related complications in the first place. Personally, I can only hope against hope to be able to delay my own hernia surgery until a better alternative is developed. There is just too much evidence against the current technique. I know a good number of people who are also delaying their surgery until a better & safer method is developed.

May all those who are suffering the serious ill-effects of this procedure find a positive, permanent solution to their pain & related problems -- and may the medical community PLEASE come up with a better way, before thousands more people are forced to suffer from what is meant to be a "cure".

The problem is it comes down to the cost and how fast the operation can be done.
Insurance companies are dictating our lives.
There are many, many reports out there on the mesh. Doctors need to inform the patients of the severe complications from the mesh.

I've been researching this stuff for over 2 years and I still shake my head when I read these reports and posts.

Artie..Do you have mesh implanted in you or are you looking to find an alternative to the mesh?

Thanks, Serenity. You're doing a terrific job with this. At least someone out there is trying to do SOMETHING.

Yes. It's all so obvious -- and tragic. 20 minutes for a mesh job, 60 minutes for a proper Shouldice procedure. Says it all. However the Shouldice procedure isn't associated with causing permanent pain.

As a doc-friend of mine put it recently, "Never have mesh. Mesh is a quick fix...." Very scary. I've been researching for a year. I honestly can't believe what I'm seeing. It reads like something out of the Dark Ages, with pain & serious complication rates one thinks of as per Victorian Era surgery.

I've seen endless reports & studies confirming the same very high complication rates -- yet nothing is done. In the UK, Canada & Europe, health care isn't driven by private insurance as it is in the USA. In fact, if patients develop complications and then require pain clinics or further surgery, it ends up costing the various public health systems a fortune.

Which is why I can't understand this method being continued in places where there is simply no profit motive. For instance, the NHS here in the UK is broke. You'd think they'd want to avoid complications at all cost. You'd also think more research would at least be coming from places outside the USA.

I currently have no mesh implanted in me. Honestly, I'm scared "witless" to have it done. I keep hoping I can hold out until the methodology improves. Non-mesh surgery can be found in the UK, except it probably wouldn't be the true Shouldice procedure. It would be what used to be called a "modified Shouldice", meaning only one tissue layer, rather than four, is stitched -- therefore a very high likelihood of recurrence.

This is why mesh gained such popularity in the '90s -- because it was much easier to learn, and much quicker to do, than the true Shouldice procedure. I've located a clinic in Munich that does the actual Shouldice method, and will try to look into that. The place reads like a super-luxury hotel and sounds WILDLY expensive ...... I don't know if I could afford it. I haven't contacted them yet............

There's a hernia surgeon in Las Vegas who has a website explaining why he doesn't use it. Also Dr Desarda's hernia clinic in India. His site very clearly explains the whole thing. However almost all hernia surgery today is with mesh, and even if things changed tomorrow, how long would it take the medical world to train surgeons in a different method? Which is probably one reason they won't abandon the current technique, but will look into, as one surgeon put it, "developing better meshes". (????)

The surgeon I saw last month pooh-poohed the whole idea of mesh complications. He talked about possible "infection" which he said could be easily dealt-with by antibiotics. So simple. I knew immediately he didn't realize how much research I've been doing, however I let him give his spiel ..... and politely left. He advocated "watchful waiting" in my case, perhaps because I'm suffering from certain other problems as well. I don't know how long I can "watchful wait" -- I'm hoping it's for a long time as I don't see any radical change happening anytime soon.

I've seen sites where surgeons flat-out deny that mesh rejection (as opposed to infection) even exists. Haven't they heard of the term "meshoma"? The denial is really scary. The whole thing is scary.

Of course, hernia mesh isn't a subject that grabs any media attention. When I mention this to people, even those with hernias or who are awaiting hernia surgery, they look at me as if I'm from Pluto. Very few people bother to do ANY research. They just do what the doctors advise, and that's that. Many people have told me that I "look into things too much". They simply don't want to know. It's understandable. Hey, I don't want to know, either.

Another problem: as I understand it, laparoscopic (keyhole) surgery can ONLY be done using mesh, and this is the type of surgery that is gaining popularity the fastest.

I don't see any real answer, apart from not having mesh in the first place. Try & find a nearby, affordable, manageable place that offers a viable alternative..............

I'm also looking into the "bio" meshes such as Permacol (UK) and Surgisis (USA). While early results are looking fairly good in terms of reduced infection rates and fewer overall complications, it's still mesh. Meaning there's still the issue of nerve entrapment, which is possibly the Number One cause of the Chronic Pain Syndrome that's so prevalent.

Serenity, all the very best to you. Please, keep up your great efforts. Maybe someone somewhere out there will listen...............

I am in the process of getting the imformation on the type of mesh. I saw it prior to my surgery and it was a pretty decent size oval shaped piece of mesh. ive been warned by my aunt,who is a RN with 30 years experience that pain management isnt always the best way to go. people can have complications from the medicine used and it can sometimes make things worse. Im wondering if physical therapy would be better eventhough it was a strain that actually "jerked on the mesh" as put so elegantly by one of the many doctors ive seen.

Just a thought.....you might want to contact the Shouldice Hernic Clinic in Toronto for information. They are reputedly the world's best hernia hospital. They never use mesh and they have a near-100% success rate. From a number of posts I've seen, they've been helpful with people who've had mesh surgery and are now having complications, pain, etc. They might be able to point you in a good direction. All the very best of luck with this, and hope everything turns out ok in the end. Hmmmm.....is jerking on the mesh is supposed to cause problems? All we keep reading about is how mesh creates such a strong bond, etc...... Again, very best wishes for a very speedy solution.

Hello, I have to admit the stories that I have read in these types of forums would make up a book of horror, it has however made people like me aware and very cautious about these physicians that are ready to just do the job inserting a mesh patch without any research of the after affects. I have had a very small Inguinal Hernia on my right side for about a year, I finally asked my physician to examine it and give me his opinion – He did and said it was in his opinion a reducible hernia; - He also would refer me to a surgeon for a further exam to be sure. I than went to the surgeon and he also said it was a reducible hernia but he was very quick to suggest patching it up. I had told him that I was doing some research on recalled mesh patches and with an immediate sarcastic voice said he did not use any recalled patches and referred to some other mesh patch that he uses. I did not like the idea of a quick decision or attitude so I stopped the conversation at that point and left the office. It seemed he took offense of me doing research on the mesh patches. Now I have a question for anyone that has done research for the following questions. 1. Is it true that a hernia is less to strangulate in older people? 2. And if it has to be repaired why not have it surgically done the old fashion way where the physician cuts , push it back, and closes it up?- It seems to me this would be the less of complications all around. 3. Does anyone know of specialized surgeons that do this? Thanks for all the information that this forum has made ready to people like myself before jumping into a bad situation.

Wow. I'm precisely in your boat! I've had very small inguinal hernia, well two of them actually, also for a year -- and like you I'm VERY concerned about mesh complications. I'm in the UK. Mesh used universally here. I've done tons of research on this in the past year. Sadly, it's very scary.

Are you anywhere near Toronto? The world-renowned Shouldice Hernia Clinic in Toronto never uses mesh. They have a near-100% success rate. See their website, and read testimonials by their patients. If I lived in, or anywhere near, Toronto, personally that would be my first choice.

There's a doctor in Las Vegas, Dr Kevin Petersen, who's got a website called "no insurance surgery" or something similar to that. His website explains why he doesn't use mesh. Try googling his site.

Don't make any quick decisions. Do a ton of research. Don't be afraid of questioning surgeons. That mentality is left over from "old times" when a doctor was seen as a "god". Forget it nowadays. There was no internet back then. Do your homework. Ask tons of questions.

The surgeon I saw also denied any problems with meshes. I politely left his premsies, too. If they take offence, that's their problem, not yours. They are there to help you. That's their job.

Very best of luck in your efforts, both in terms of research and a final decision. Also be sure to see the many various websites on "watchful waiting + hernia".

You may also want to google Surgisis and Permacol, the new "bio" (non-plastic/biodegradable) meshes. You might find a lot of this information interesting & enlightening.

GOOD LUCK!

Hi again Frightened....

I'm also Frightened.....Very. From all the research I've done, (I'm not a doctor -- so this is only based one what I've seen on the Net and from what three doc's have told me) it seems there's no real way to predict strangulation. The surgeon I saw, who advised watchful waiting in my case as the hernias are very small and not painful, said it's up to (gasp) "Fate". Talk about frightened......

I suppose we sort of expect concrete scientific answers from doctors, however because virtually no research has gone into hernia -- apart from the surgical side -- they can't give the sort of "definitive" answers that might put our minds to rest. I was literally PRAYING for my doc's & the surgeon to offer that sort of solid info. They couldn't. The only definitive things they can offer are the various surgical options.

Most sites say that stangulation is more likely if the hernia has become irreducable and/or is getting painful. Meaning use common sense -- if things seem to getting worse or painful, get medical attention immediately.

If a reliable "strangulation predictor" could be developed, it might mean the end of a lot of hernia operations (?). I've seen sites that say small hernias are more likely to strangulate, I've seen sites that say larger ones are. From what I've read, indirect hernias are more likely to strangulate than direct. Also hernias with a large neck are supposed to be less likely to strangulate.

However there is no info remotely as "concrete" as we'd like. Unfortunately it's all largely opinion because so little research has gone into anything apart from surgery.

Trawl the net. Get as much info as you possibly can. Again, best of luck.

Thanks Artie,

The The Shouldice Clinic seems to be the answer for an excellent choice of patient care, Do you know if they accept any insurance or how much the cost? I reside in the US and Canada would be no problem except for cost.

Also the clinic in Vegas seems to be another good choice? It seems like you are knowledgeable on research.

Hello again

Just want to re-iterate....I'm more Frightened than you....believe me. And I'm in England. Can't get to the Shouldice in Toronto. If I could, I'd rest a LOT easier, just knowing they were on hand, in case it became necessary. If you reside partly in Canada it might be quite convenient for you. Can't say anything about cost, insurance, etc. Best to email or phone them.

Dr Petersen in Las Vegas was kind enough to email me with details. He seems to do the Shouldice method -- however I'm not a doctor (FAR from it) so I can't say if his technique is exactly the same. Best to ask him. His email was very friendly & he seems really easy to talk to.

Yes....unfortunately I've done tons of research. I wish the Shouldice had a branch over here. I'm trying to find a nearby best-option should "watchful waiting" no longer be possible. In the meantime I'm doing everything I possibly can to keep the hernias under control. I'm hoping to hold out until the mesh issue has been sorted out. You're right....the stories read like a horror novel. Very sad. And VERY scary.

Luca
You are absolutely correct, there have never been any clinical studies on any of these mesh proucts, not even the ones that are place in females for UTI, which are better known as slings. There are also horrific complications associated with them also. To be honest, every time a mesh is implanted, the implantee becomes part of the trial. It is known by the FDA that these products are causing vast disabling complications, but because they approved the use of these products I highly doubt that the FDA will do anything about them, The FDA would look very bad in the public eye if they were to do anything now. As consumers, the only recourse that we have is to file adverse event reports thru the FDA www.fda.gov/medwatch is the link to file a report. I feel as one who suffers also and after three operations the word should get out about these products and the harm they do, if you have any suggestions in doing this they should be applied as soon as possible to help prevent this from continuing. I have been in contact with the FDA for 2 years now, so have many others with complications. Do anything and everything you can to get the word out.

Not to lumber anyone with more repetitive research (all the recent trials, studies & reports are showing at least 30% rate of chronic pain, including a very recent one completed in Holland) -- however anyone concerned with the issue might want to know that the very serious issue of hernia mesh has obviously reached a point where a special conference is being conducted by the British Hernia Society on the subject early next month:

htt p://www.britishherniasociety.org/glasgow20 08/speakers.htm

This shows that the med’s are indeed very much aware of the issue....which is a good thing. The need for widespread info on SAFER alternatives is now desperately needed.