Intestinal Disorders Forum - a Mix of Urgent And Difficult Bowel Movements Every Day


a Mix of Urgent And Difficult Bowel Movements Every Day

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marcus11

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a Mix of Urgent And Difficult Bowel Movements Every Day Posted: 10-27-07 13:31pm


Hi, for the last weeks, up to 3 or 4 months, I've been having odd bowel movements. The problem seems to be getting worse and more frequent and is becoming quite annoying. It is every day now. Early in the morning I have bowel movements that come out very easily but not all in one piece, they sort of come out in spurts and spatters. There is a feeling of urgency. I'd say, we're talking 5 or 6 on the Bristol Stool Chart. Frequently I'll have to go 3 times between say 8am and noon. Later on, in the evening, I have bowel movements that are very difficult to pass. I suppose again they are type 5, lots of small thin bits, but there is no urgency and they're very difficult to pass. Again I have to go several times just because I can't manage to get it all out at once. It is not as clean cut as I've suggested, usually in any one go it will be more of a mixture of both types, but I've noticed a tendency towards one type in the morning and another at night. Also, I have normal, quite-good bowel movements in-between these troublesome ones. There is no blood or mucus or the like, and it's not painful, just difficult. It's possible that I'm not eating enough fibre and drinking enough water. But I'm not sure. There's been no change in my diet associated with the beginning of this. And I think my diet is pretty good. I am a vegan, and I eat lots of vegetables, maybe a little short on the green leafy's, lots of tofu and soy milk, fortified cereal, beans, fruit, that sort of thing. I could be low on wholegrains and nuts so I will try eating more of those. But I've been vegan since long before this problem began. The reason I post to the forum is, first because it doesn't seem to me as if I have a bad diet, and secondly because I know my mother had colon cancer. Thanks

MandMs

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Posted: 10-29-07 04:20am


Are you experiencing abdominal pain and discomfort? Do you feel bloated? Do you find your bowel movements reactive to certain foods and stress?

marcus11

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Posted: 10-29-07 06:58am


Abdominal pain and discomfort -- no. Feeling bloated -- maybe a bit. Reactive to certain foods and stress -- not that I've noticed. I'm wondering whether this is a case of normal constipation or IBS. I'm going to keep a diary of what goes in and what goes out, and try to get lots of water, fruit and vegetable juices, that sort of thing, for about a week. After that I'll probably go to a doctor. I'm not sure if I should be eating bran or not.

marcus11

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Posted: 10-30-07 13:10pm


I'd like to revise that 'abdominal pain and discomfort' answer to slight discomfort. Also a couple of days of keeping a diary of this I want to revise my description of the symptoms. For the past two days what I've noticed is that for every time I would normally poo once (about three times a day) I now have to go about three times over a period of about three hours. (So I need to go at least 9 times each day). The stool comes out as lots of small lumps that do not float. There is sometimes short-lived constipation, within these periods, but sometimes there isn't. There may be a tendency towards constipation in the evening and ease in the morning/day. The 'urgency' thing is I think just something I imagined due to having had constipation in the evening compared to ease of passing in the morning. My diet is normally quite good but I'm eating a very good diet for this week and keeping a diary of everything I eat. I should certainly be getting enough fibre and water, although the quality of my stool would seem to suggest that I don't have any. Hoping this will just go away if I increase the fibre and water in my diet. Based on a recommended daily intake of fibre that I just googled (25grams) some foods are surprisingly low. e.g. my fruit and bran cereal (4.3g fibre per portion), fruit and veg juice (2.2g per portion). So I'd have to eat 6 bowls of bran cereal per day to get the recommended amount of fibre?? I know there's fibre in the normal fruit and veg that I eat also, but I don't know the amounts.

marcus11

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Posted: 10-30-07 14:37pm


Hmmmm... based on a little more research, here is what I'm gonna plan to eat. If someone who knows anything about this could glance at it and tell me if I basically have it right that'd be nice. I've tried to google fibre contents, but I'll check the ingredients on the stuff that I buy too (except raw fruits and vegetables, cause you can't). Different sites told me I should get between 18 and 35 grams of fibre per day, so I'm gonna go for 25. Breakfast: * 'Fruit & Fibre' cereal is not Bran Cereal, and it's rubbish. It has like 4g of fibre compared to 10 in Bran cereal. Oops. Eat a bowl of bran cereal with soymilk. * Brown bread is not as good as I thought, apparently about 4g for 2 slices. Still, that's good. So eat that. You get an extra 1g for using raspberry jam. I'll eat 2 slices of toast with jam. Snacks: * Raw fruits: apple (3-4.5g fibre per apple), orange (1.2-2.4g), peach (2.3g), pear (4g), banana (3g). * Dried fruit. Especially dried figs, 10.5g fibre in 3 figs!? Raisins, 1g per 1tbsp * Wholewheat crackers. Dunno how good these are, but I'm guessing they're similar to bread, a good snack. * Also look for nice wholewheat biscuits Lunch: I will probably alternate between beans on toast, beans on a potato, pasta or noodles with pesto, and vegetable soup with lentils or pasta in it, and try to add a spinach-based salad to each, and potentially a muffin. Potentially. * Baked beans black beans, kidney beans (all these beans are 16-19g fibre per cup!?) * Wholewheat pasta or noodles, about 5.6g per cup. So just eat pasta or noodles in soup or with pesto or something + salad for lunch. Quick and easy. * A wholewheat muffin is worth 3.7g, a bran muffin 4.6g * In salads, basically use fresh spinach as the main thing, and add some other random raw vegetables. 6g fibre for 1 cup of fresh spinach. * Peas, 9.1g per 1/2 cup. Really? Put them in pasta. Dinner type foods: I basically make a lot of vegetable stir-fries with rice and noodles. I'll try to add another spinach-based salad on the side. * Brocolli, 7g per 3/4 cup. Carrots and Zucchini also good but brocolli rules the vegetables. Bring back brocolli, I have been neglecting it. * Brown rice, 5.5g per 1/2 cup * Wholewheat noodles, beans, spinach, peanut butter as above * Lentils, 5.5-6.5g for a 1/2 cup. Lentils and veg. stock make a good late snack. * Peanut butter, peanuts (1.1g per 1tbsp). I put this in stir-fries. Coconut too, that seems like it would have fibre. As well as this I'll take a vitamin supplement and try to drink lots of water, fruit and vegetable juices. To be honest, if I have this remotely correct, just basing a diet on getting enough fibre and a variety of the things that are good in fibre is a lot easier than my previous attempt at a healthy vegan diet, which involved trying to be sure to get enough of everything, which makes planning really complicated. Perhaps I will just do the above and, if it fixes my problem, simply assume that diet is good for everything else as well as fibre. It sounds reasonable to me.

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Posted: 11-07-07 03:02am


Congratulations! You did a great work planning a healthy diet rich in fiber and liquids. I hope you already feel better. Do you have positive results? Keeping a diary of what you eat and what your symptoms are for a few weeks, it's a good idea , too. You may find out if a certain food bothers you. If you think a food makes you feel worse, don't eat it. But don't cut out foods unless they have caused you problems more than once. Fiber intake can be helpful with your constipation and IBS if it turns that you have it. Remember, that you should increase the fiber in your diet slowly. If you increase your fiber intake too quickly, you may experience bloating and gases. Gas and bloating usually improve as you get used to eating more fiber. The best way to increase your fiber intake is eat a wide variety of high fiber foods. Waiting for your post! Best wishes! Marija

marcus11

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Posted: 11-09-07 20:40pm


Thanks Marija I kept up the improved diet and log for about 5 days. It is basically my normal diet but with deliberately increased fibre and liquids, particularly by snacking on dried fruits and fruit and vegetable juices during the day. In that period I noticed a definite improvement, towards larger stools and going only three times a day, and away from constipation or straining. I did not get to what I would call a really healthy stool though, or what I feel is normal for me. And even on the last day, things were still variable, for example I would go once and have a relatively good movement then within an hour have to go again to pass a very low volume. I stopped keeping the log for the last week and also had a bit of a cold, and consequently my fibre and liquids intake will have dropped, and (surprise) things became more up and down, getting progessively worse. I'm planning to go back to the log and fibre diet again and try to keep it up for a couple of weeks. I am a little worried about this though. Partially because my normal diet, such as the one I had in the last week when things got worse again, hardly seems low in fibre. Here's today, for example, which was totally unplanned: * 2 slices toast (wholewheat), glass of juice, cup of tea, vitamin pill, garlic pill. * 1 sandwich (white bread) containing tofu and vegetables * Bowl of lentil stew (lentils and vegetables), 2 slices toast (wholewheat) * About 3 cups of tea throughout the day (this is high for me, I was tired) and an equal number of glasses of water * Black-eyed peas and vegetables, wholewheat rice, spinach, carrot, zuchini I dunno. All in all, I could eat more fruit, more high-fibre snacks, and drink more fluids. But my meals are generally composed exclusively of vegetables, beans, pulses etc. and wholegrains. And from what I've been reading the symptoms I have, a change in bowel habits towards going more often and smaller pieces, mildly upset stomach, and gas, could be low fibre perhaps, but could also be IBS, polyps or colorectal cancer. Should I see a doctor asap or should I try to keep up the fibre for a few weeks and see if it persists? I've found conflicting advice.

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Posted: 11-26-07 02:38am


I'm very sorry I haven't posted for a longer period. How are you? Do you feel better? Have you visited a doctor already? Do you have back and groin pain? Are you experiencing depression, disturbed sleep and a tendency to urinate more frequently?

marcus11

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Posted: 11-27-07 08:29am


Thanks MandMs. I feel a little better but not completely. I haven't visited a doctor yet. I don't have any back or groin pain. I'm not experiencing depression. My sleep is no more disturbed than normal, I've never been a good sleeper. I'm not urinating any more than normal, but I've always urinated frequently. Probably too much caffeine. I'm doing somewhat better. It seems I can avoid constipation if I eat enough fibre and drink lots of fluids. I seem to be kind of prone to getting it though if I have a busy couple of days and don't get enough good food and fluids. I never used to be so vulnerable. What I can't seem to get rid of is the other side of the problem, the very loose poo and needing to go a couple more times a day than I normally would. I can't seem to get back to something like a 3 or 4 on the Bristol stool scale, at least no consistently, but instead am stuck at 5 or 6, even though my diet is quite good, and the occasional 1 if my diet is bad even briefly. Maybe I have a bug or something, but it certainly seems to be persistent (it's been a few weeks now).

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Posted: 11-28-07 06:12am


A back and groin pain, lethargy, depression, disturbed sleep and a tendency to urinate more frequently, sometimes can be associated problems of IBS. Diarrhea, especially after eating or first thing in the morning, bloating and gas, constipation, feeling like you still need to have a bowel movement after you've already had one and feeling a strong urge to have a bowel movement are all very common symptoms of IBS. Do you have abdominal pain and cramping that go away after having a bowel movement? Do you find mucus in your stool? Are you experiencing sense of fullness, nausea and vomiting? Are you stressing too much? Do you find your symptoms related with stress?

marcus11

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Posted: 11-28-07 18:03pm


Thanks MandMs for all the help. Okay. I have not noticed any back and groin pain, lethargy, depression, disturbed sleep or a tendency to urinate more frequently associated with this problem. I do sometimes have some abdominal pain that goes away after a movement. This is the sort of pain that comes in waves, that you would normally experience if your body is telling you that you really ought to go now, you've been holding it in for too long. I've had this sort of pain before. But now I seem somewhat more prone to it, because I wake up in the morning needing to go, and usually I'll need to go twice or maybe three times by lunch, and if for some reason I can't go right away I will get this pain before too long. If I can go when I need to though, there is no pain, it's only if I have to wait a while. I've not noticed any mucus in the stool. I'll look out for it, but I don't think there is any. Nausea, fulness, vomiting, stress -- all no. Well, I'm under stress fairly often, I'm a Phd student and a volunteer so am pretty hectic. But I'm not an especially stressy person, and I don't notice any correlation between stress and this problem. When I am stressed, I can't sleep. That's the only thing I notice that stress causes for me.

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Hi Marcus11! Posted: 12-05-07 02:53am


You are welcome anytime:) Have you noticed that your symptoms are getting worse when you have large meals or when you consume wheat, rye, barley, chocolate, milk products, or alcohol and drinks with caffeine, such as coffee, tea, or colas? Can you remember if the initial phase of your symptoms 3 or 4 months back were preceded with fever, headache, abdominal cramps, diarrhea with or without vomiting?

marcus11

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Posted: 12-29-07 17:02pm


Thanks again MandMs, and sorry for the wait. I haven't noticed a correlation with large meals or any of those foods. I'll look out for it. I didn't have any of those additional symptoms you mention when my symptoms began. I went to a doctor. I forgot to mention to him that there is bowel cancer in my family. He prodded and listened to my stomach and asked some questions, and said it was probably irritable bowel due to diet and not anything more serious. I feel a bit unsatisfied though, because I don't know if he would have done any different had I remembered to mention the cancer. Anyway, he referred me to a nutritionist which I'm on a list for now, and in the meantime he gave me this fybogel mebeverine stuff which does seem to have sorted me out. It contains ispaghula husk which is a natural fibre supplement and mebeverine hydrochloride which is a drug for calming down your bowels. I guess if this stuff seems to sort me out, then it must be dietary and nothing else. I don't understand though because my diet really seems to have enough fibre in it, so I don't know what to do to fix my diet without continuing to take this stuff. Can I just keep using it? Or what should I add to my diet? I guess these are questions for the nutritionist. I think I'll try to keep a diet record for the week or two before I go, so I can give them some accurate information. Any more thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.

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HI! Posted: 01-16-08 06:24am


Nice to read your post again! Large meals can cause cramping and diarrhea in people with IBS. If this happens to you, try eating four or five small meals a day instead of less-frequent big meals. Treatment for IBS may include medicine, stress relief (emotional stress does not cause IBS, but if you already have IBS, stress can make your symptoms worse) and changes in eating habits. Do you drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes?

marcus11

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Posted: 01-17-08 08:18am


I drink a little alcohol but not much, and don't smoke at all.

MandMs

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Posted: 02-11-08 05:59am


Have you visited the nutritionist already?

marcus11

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Posted: 02-12-08 09:52am


Yeah I saw the nutritionist a week or two ago. It wasn't very helpful actually. She told me to drink more fluids and try to get more regular exercise, and gave me a couple of other dietary tips. She said it was fine to continue taking the fybogel if it helps because it's just a plant product and not a drug. But mostly she seemed to think my diet was fine and shouldn't be causing these symptoms, and didn't seem to know what was going on. Since then I've continued with my usual diet without fybogel and tried to have plenty of fluids but the symptoms haven't improved. So today I went to buy more fybogel and give that a go and see if that helps. As usual the pharmacist does not want to sell me this fybogel stuff. They seem to be of the opinion that fybogel is for temporary relief of constipation and can't fathom why anyone would want to buy more than a couple of doses of it at once, unless they have IBS, which according to the pharmacist means stomach cramps which I don't have. They also pointed out that Fybogel Mebeverine has two ingredients, the fibre supplement and a drug for relieving IBS. The nutritionist seemed to think it was the first ingredient only. So if the fybogel does seem to clear me up, it is probably the drug rather than the fibre, since the nutritionist agrees I don't need more fibre. The pharmacist also seemed to think that with the symptoms I have I should have had blood tests and that sort of thing to confirm it isn't something else before just being labelled as IBS. That's what I thought too, but the doctor just said IBS and prescribed fybogel mebeverine, and the nutritionist just shrugged and said drink water and do exercise. Should I go back to the doctor and ask for tests? I think I will do so, after giving the fybogel mebeverine another two week test so I can record what effect it has. Basically I'm confused. Everyone is saying different things and I'm still suffering these symptoms and don't know what it is or what to do about it. I think it could well be IBS, but not brought on by diet, but by my hopelessly irregular lifestyle. As a Phd student and volunteer I have irregular work and that means I also have irregular sleep, food and exercise and am prone to stress and anxiety. I think all this could bring on IBS even if the stuff I am eating is good. Does IBS get brought on by something? Does it have a cause? Does it go away or do you just have to try to relieve the symptoms? But I wouldn't want to just conclude it was IBS when the symptoms could also be something more serious that I haven't been tested for. So I think I will go back to the doctor about that in two weeks.

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Posted: 03-06-08 05:10am


There are tests to be performed to diagnose or exclude other conditions which may have symptoms similar to IBS. Conditions that give IBS-like symptoms are gastrointestinal infections, lactose intolerance and Celiac disease. The underlying biochemical cause of IBS is not well established. You may never be completely free of IBS, and you may have to try several things to find something that works for you (dietary, pharmacological, behavioral, and herbal therapies)

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Posted: 05-12-08 14:00pm


Marcus, I am having the exact same issue. My came on suddenly about 2 months ago. I had traveled to New Orleans to do some volunteer work and a few days after my return I had very bad diarrhea. It got a little better but now I have 2 bm before I even get to work, then 2-3 by early after and at night I feel like I need to go but can't. I saw my PCP after a month and she prescribed an antibiotic in case I had picked something up on my trip. Things seemed slightly better for 2-3 days. But then returned to their abnormal state. I saw her again and she suggested I stay away from milk for a few weeks and see if things improve. I have and they have not. I am post bariactric surgery, my diet consists of healthy food, grain, protein, fruits and veggies. I was eating the same way before this happened as I am now...except I use soy milk, etc for the past 2 weeks. I can't figure this out either, but I will be calling my doc this week to get another appt.

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Hi, xyla_phony! Posted: 05-14-08 07:10am


When did you undergo bariatric surgery? Have you noticed a correlation between these symptoms and food rich in wheat, rye, and barley?