Differences between an embryo and a person? Posted: 11-14-07 00:34am
what is the differences between an embryo
and a person? because i have heard the pro
choice views on it and the pro life view
on it. and am wondering why is there a
difference?
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Jude-Love
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Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 727 Location: Williamstown, Kentucky USA
Posted: 11-14-07 00:42am
Well, as for what is obvious:
Embryos typically look like this:
Obviously, a person doesn't look that way.
If he or she did, I'd be terrified.
Let's face it, embryos are ugly little
things, lol.
As for the less obvious, our entire body
system is fully developed and working
together, unlike with an embryo. Embryos
don't even have organ systems, they have
elementary beginnings of a few important
ones. They have no senses at all.
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Jincks013
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Posted: 11-14-07 07:10am
Not to mention frontal lobe activity; that
part of the brain that control emotions;
isn't even a microscopic dot yet. There is
no 'person' or 'feeling' there.
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Verizon-y
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Posted: 11-14-07 12:49pm
Some pro-lifers, actually most from the
ones I meet, believe that a fertilized egg
is a person, which is even before the
embryo.
the only difference between the embryo and
the born person is that one is more
developed than the other. Pretty simple.
Though I know some folks that I think
their brains never developed hehe
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Cambion
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Posted: 11-16-07 02:09am
Simply put...anything a person can do, an
embryo cannot do. The only thing they have
in common is they both exist, and nothing
else. Embryos cannot think, breathe, see,
talk, hear, feel, taste, touch, smell, and
so forth. I mean what do you expect from a
cell?
Embryos have the potential to become
people, but that's all they have going for
them. Some embryos get flushed out of the
body with the monthly cycle, some implant
and then die, and some die nine months
after implantation and hysterical Mommy
takes pictures of the cadaver and posts
them on her blog with the title of "My
little angel-snookums"
But if you're brain-dead like most
pro-lifers, you will probably believe that
an embryo is actually a fully-formed
infant with all bodily systems and outer
features completely intact and the
appearance doesn't change, but the "baby"
just grows. So, pro-lifers kind of think
of embryos as sponges...they don't really
change much in color, but they just grow
(and if you've ever seen a newborn, you'll
know what I mean - they look like godawful
ugly hairless rats). I pray you aren't
that dense because we already have too
many stupid people on this forum.
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Tylanas
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Re: Differences Between An Embryo And a Person? Posted: 11-16-07 11:06am
amanda1691
wrote:
what is the differences
between an embryo and a person? because i
have heard the pro choice views on it and
the pro life view on it. and am wondering
why is there a
difference?
"Why"? Why is not a good question...
"Why" there is a difference is obvious
when you begin looking at how a fully developed
baby and a zygote/embryo/fetus are
different.
How are they different?
1. Physically:
As many people have already stated, a baby
has all of its internal organs developed
and functioning together. When discussing
the unborn in reference to abortion, a
6-12 week embryo/fetus does NOT have all
of its organs in working order.
~The lungs are completely useless at this
stage.
~I believe the stomach is undeveloped, and
reproductive organs are indistinguishable
between male or female.
~Depending on the stage, the eyes are
primitive and eyelids have not developed.
At other stages the eyes are sealed shut
by the eyelids, which finally split open
later on.
~At early enough stages, the embryo has
primitive gill flaps, but no larynx or
mid-throat apparatuses. The gill flaps
develop into these organs but not right
away.
~At certain points the embryo has a tail
too.
~The embryo/fetus only has a two-chambered
heart initially, just like amphibians.
Though it beats as early as week 9, it is
not a proper human heart yet. Sealing of
the heart into four chambers and
connecting to the lungs via the aorta
actually happens right after birth! It's
an amazing transformation that takes place
in mere seconds: The umbilical cord is
cut, the heart seals up, and the
blood-flow inside the baby's chest
re-routes to oxygenate the blood using the
lungs.
All of these differences make an
embryo/fetus very, very different from a
born human baby.
2. Brain/Nervous System Differences:
I put this separately because it's such an
important distinction.
~The embryo/fetus does not have a fully
developed brain. It is neither the correct
size, nor is it connected right. The brain
forms out of the spine, forming the basic
brain-stem sections first. The brain-stem
sections are responsible for basic life
functions.
~Then slowly over the rest of the
pregnancy the rest of the brain forms; but
at early stages it is not developed enough
to think, comprehend, or even feel pain.
~The embryo/fetus begins recoiling from
uterine intruders such as light scopes and
abortion instruments; however this is a
nervous-system reaction that all base
forms of life have, including bugs. It
doesn't mean it feels pain.
~In fact, it can't feel pain. The brain
isn't developed enough to process that
kind of input, AND the nerves of the body
have not connected to the brain.
I hope this has been helpful to you in
understanding some of the obvious
differences between an embryo/fetus at
6-12 weeks, and a born baby.
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Jincks013
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Posted: 11-17-07 07:43am
nightangel73
wrote:
Though I know some folks that I think
their brains never developed
hehe
I quite agree.
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Verizon-y
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Posted: 11-17-07 16:27pm
I wonder how old amanda1691 is. I hope
she's not a future teen mother.
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Emma2
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Posted: 11-18-07 12:31pm
futureshock
wrote:
Some pro-lifers, actually
most from the ones I meet, believe that a
fertilized egg is a person, which is even
before the embryo.
i think what they mean is that for every
egg and ever sperm there is an individual
. hence a person an individual.
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Tylanas
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Posted: 11-18-07 19:21pm
I believe a Person needs to be separate
from the mother's body. It needs to be
able to survive as a separate being too.
If it cannot, then it is not a person.
Moderate medical intervention is fine; as
in the case of preemies. But if medical
help cannot save it, then it is not a
Person. So 12 week fetus? Not a person
upon removal from the mother, even if it's
whole and "alive" for a few minutes. 27
week fetus? Person (once removed).
Survival is possible with medical
intervention. A fetus is not a Person
until it is removed from the mother's body
AND is capable of survival (with medical
care if needed). Until then, it is not and
individual, as it is not independent.
This is ONLY in reference to the unborn.
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Gu£st
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Posted: 11-18-07 19:36pm
an embryo is a person at a certain stage
of life, your question is akin to asking
what is the differences between an 8 year
old and a person?
clearly both are persons, one is an 8 year
old person and the other is perhaps a
adult person, an adolesent person, an old
age person or whatever, an embryo is an
embryonic person.
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Tylanas
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Posted: 11-18-07 20:28pm
What? An EMBRYO is never a Person as an
embryo can never survive outside of a
woman's body. The unborn stops being an
embryo at week 10. Even then, the
now-fetus could not survive outside the
womb even with care, and so it is not
independent nor is it a Person.
Is that more clear?
An 8 year old could be cared for by
anyone; his body is not literally attached
to his mother. He can survive in the
outside world outside of the womb. He can
breath and eat.
Please for the love of God; I specified
the Uborn because I KNEW you would try to
compare a fetus to a born child; and there
is NO comparison.
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Jincks013
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Posted: 11-19-07 08:27am
Guest please stop using Scott Klusendorf
guide to debating abortion; countrary to
his rules trotting out a toddler (or other
age child) is not effective.
TODDLER TACTICS
By Scott Klusendorf
Use “Trot out the Toddler” to simplify
the abortion issue for those who think its
complex. It’s easy to use and frames
the argument around the one question that
really matters, “What is the unborn?”
Source
As amusing as that guide is to read it
actually is not effective as he thinks it
is and it's main point is to get the
debate off topic.
Eiri has a good point about survivability
out of the uterus. Yes we have a few and
far between 'miracles' of fetii born
between 19 - 22 weeks that survive with
extreme medical intervention but this is
not a common occurance and I'd think you'd
want to base your arguement in factual
medical evidence which does not support a
fetus or embryo being a person as it is
still developementally unable to survive
without the placenta.
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Tylanas
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Posted: 11-19-07 11:14am
That's a terrible way to debate!!! It's
basically telling pro-lifers to constantly
take the argument away from what it's
about and force the pro-choicer to discuss
something completely unrelated; no wonder
I'm so frustrated all the time!!!
By the way the opening paragraphs of that
argument don't apply to the pro-choicers
here anyway, since we have multiple times
defended our non-Person view of the unborn
with piles and piles of scientific
evidence (which the article claims "we"
never do).
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Jincks013
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Posted: 11-20-07 07:14am
I found it when someone from another board
was using that tactic and I googled it and
lo' there was the whole website. He has
since slunk away to the unknown world of
PLA (Whose site even I don't brave often).
It does lay out the enemy battle plan
rather nicely though.
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Verizon-y
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Posted: 11-20-07 07:35am
Gu£st
wrote:
an embryo is a person at a
certain stage of life, your question is
akin to asking
what is the differences between an 8 year
old and a person?
clearly both are persons, one is an 8 year
old person and the other is perhaps a
adult person, an adolesent person, an old
age person or whatever, an embryo is an
embryonic
person.
That's a terrible way to
debate!!! It's basically telling
pro-lifers to constantly take the argument
away from what it's about and force the
pro-choicer to discuss something
completely unrelated; no wonder I'm so
frustrated all the time!!!
By the way the opening paragraphs of that
argument don't apply to the pro-choicers
here anyway, since we have multiple times
defended our non-Person view of the unborn
with piles and piles of scientific
evidence (which the article claims "we"
never do).
The pro-life(anti-choice) side is filled
with disingenuous people. And that is
putting it mildly.
Jincks013
wrote:
I found it when someone from
another board was using that tactic and I
googled it and lo' there was the whole
website. He has since slunk away to the
unknown world of PLA (Whose site even I
don't brave often).
It does lay out the enemy battle plan
rather nicely
though.
Good job.
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meblonde01
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Posted: 11-20-07 08:50am
The pro-life(anti-choice) side is filled
with disingenuous people. And that is
putting it mildly.
I'm sure pro-lifers would say the same
about pro-choicers,, it doesn't make
either side RIGHT!
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Tylanas
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Posted: 11-20-07 10:49am
Except that pro-choicers don't lie and
don't try to "emotionalize" the argument.
We certainly don't "trot out the tot"! We
don't have underhanded practices like
that. We don't tell each other how to
debate.
