"And making it illegal will stop it
right?" (Remember there is ample factual
current evidence to disprove
this)
ONCE MORE.... for those of "short
memories"....... NO LAWS will completely
stop anything, including homicide, rape,
kidnapping robbery, and a lot of other
criminal acts... but such laws DO reduce
the total number of such acts. The same
would be true of laws against abortion,
IMO.
SO you are admitting illegalizing abortion
will not make it stop. Since you know and
acknowlege that fact perhaps your efforts
and energy would be better spent
PREVENTING pregnancy; supporting factual
comprehensive sex education; low cost or
free contraceptives instead of playing
word games on message boards.
Now a little history lesson: Abortion was
never legalized to prevent or promote the
death of a zef; it was legalized TO SAVE
THE LIVES OF WOMEN !!
So it stands to reason that since abortion
was legalized to save the lives of women
promoting illegalizing abortion actually
means you want women to die so all life is
not equally important which burns your
morality card.
Either you support killing women or you
support abortion.
We'll deal with the fact you think women
don't have rights in a bit.
|
Snug
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 12 Dec 2007 Posts: 151 Location: In the jacuzzi, silly.
Thanks: 21
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-02-08 10:59am
Jincks013
wrote:
Now a little history lesson: Abortion was
never legalized to prevent or promote the
death of a zef; it was legalized TO SAVE
THE LIVES OF WOMEN !!
Not only that, but abortion was never
illegal to protect the lives of embryos
and fetuses in the first place. It was
illegal to protect the lives of women.
As medical technology advanced, abortion
became much safer, to the point where it
was safer than pregnancy and childbirth.
So the government no longer had an
interest in making it illegal.
At the point that only illegal abortions
are dangerous, it is immoral to prevent
women from accessing legal abortion.
I didn't read your link, I'll admit, but
why should I when I don't disagree?
Sometimes abortion is not the right
answer.
Sometimes it is.
It should be up the individual to decide.
|
msrosie
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 355 Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks: 4
Thanked:1
Posted: 01-02-08 16:22pm
yodavater
wrote:
ONCE MORE.... for those of "short
memories"....... NO LAWS will completely
stop anything, including homicide, rape,
kidnapping robbery, and a lot of other
criminal acts... but such laws DO reduce
the total number of such acts. The same
would be true of laws against abortion,
IMO.
Have you not read the thread on this board
about the study showing that abortion is
*just as prevalent* in countries where
it's illegal as where it's legal???
Do you not realize that in developed
countries such as ours, with modern
communication technology such as the
internet, that information on how to
obtain illegal abortions would be very
easy to get? I know I for one would use
space on my website to put up information
on how to get an abortion. And if my
server is not in your country, you
couldn't stop me from doing so. I would
also do what I could to facilitate people
coming up here from the states to abort.
ie. letting them stay at my house free of
charge if they need a place to stay;
donating money to funds that would be set
up to help women who can't afford to
travel get up here to abort etc, etc.
Why do you think that it would be
drastically reduced just for being
illegal, especially in this day and age?
|
Snug
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 12 Dec 2007 Posts: 151 Location: In the jacuzzi, silly.
Thanks: 21
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-03-08 08:53am
diamond splinter
wrote:
it is not only illegal
abortions that are dangerous be it
emotional or physical legal abortions can
be just as harmful
Baloney.
|
diamond splinter
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 611 Location: ,
Posted: 01-03-08 09:45am
so in effect you are calling all the women
that have contacted infections or became
depressed after abortion liars what a nice
person you are.
abortion is not the right choice for
everyone unfortunatly some women do not
discover it was the wrong choice until
after the procedure to state that abortion
never harms a woman is egotistical and
wrong just the same as stating that
abortion harms all women.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-03-08 11:02am
It is true (obviously) that a small
percentage of women die, get infections,
or are severely depressed after their
abortion. These statistics are tiny
compared to the numbers of women who are
healthy and satisfied after their
abortion.
People can die during ANY operation, they
can get infected after any operation;
should we stop doing those operations too?
|
diamond splinter
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 611 Location: ,
Posted: 01-03-08 11:23am
i am not saying there isn't a risk in all
operations i am just stating that it isn't
only illegal abortions that can be
harmfull to women
|
yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 01-03-08 11:51am
Jincks013
wrote:
SO you are admitting illegalizing abortion
will not make it
stop.
<sigh>..... I don't know how I can
make it any more clear.... NOTHING will
stop abortion, homicide, robbery,
kidnapping, burglary, and a lot of other
crimes. But laws against them will REDUCE
their incidence. How can I state that any
more simply?
Jincks013
wrote:
Since you know and acknowlege that fact
perhaps your efforts and energy would be
better spent PREVENTING pregnancy;
The two things are not mutually exclusive,
are they? Can one not do both at the same
time? I can.
Jincks013
wrote:
So it stands to reason that since abortion
was legalized to save the lives of women
promoting illegalizing abortion actually
means you want women to die
.
Prolifers do not do illegal abortions,
only prochoicers do. How does that treat
your morality card?
|
yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 01-03-08 11:55am
msrosie
wrote:
Have you not read the thread on this board
about the study showing that abortion is
*just as prevalent* in countries where
it's illegal as where it's legal???
Yes. And I read IN that study that they
admitted that their statistics were not
reliable, since figures on abortions done
in countries where it's illegal are only
guesses at best. So the whole study is
worthless.
msrosie
wrote:
Do you not realize that in developed
countries such as ours, with modern
communication technology such as the
internet, that information on how to
obtain illegal abortions would be very
easy to get?
Self-aborting is very dangerous, just like
treating yourself is generally. Without a
properly performed and read ultrasound,
it's impossible to rule out ectopic
pregnancies.
msrosie
wrote:
Why do you think that it would be
drastically reduced just for being
illegal, especially in this day and
age?
Because basically, most people are
law-abiding.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-03-08 12:37pm
diamond splinter
wrote:
i am not saying there isn't
a risk in all operations i am just stating
that it isn't only illegal abortions that
can be harmfull to
women
However you must admit that the risk is
far far higher with an illegal abortion.
|
sillyakchick
Supporter
Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2689
Thanks: 4
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-03-08 13:23pm
yodavater
wrote:
Yes. And I read IN that study that they
admitted that their statistics were not
reliable, since figures on abortions done
in countries where it's illegal are only
guesses at best. So the whole study is
worthless.
.
What makes you think the whole study is
worthless? I think that good headway has
indeed been made into learning about the
social implications of legalization and
criminalization of abortion. You have to
admit, many studies in the scientific
community can only point to correlations,
and not necessarily causation. Does that
make them useless? If so, then even the
census is "useless" because guesses,
estimations, and hunches have to be used
all the time to compile data.
What you should really do is read some
abstracts in regard to the study to see
whether the scientific community deems it
"worthless". Or, are you a social
scientist?
|
diamond splinter
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 611 Location: ,
Posted: 01-03-08 13:43pm
Eiri
wrote:
diamond splinter
wrote:
i am not saying there isn't
a risk in all operations i am just stating
that it isn't only illegal abortions that
can be harmfull to
women
However you must admit that the risk is
far far higher with an illegal
abortion.
Of course it is it is being done cloak and
dagger with very little sanitation for one
thing
|
Snug
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 12 Dec 2007 Posts: 151 Location: In the jacuzzi, silly.
Thanks: 21
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-03-08 14:42pm
diamond splinter
wrote:
so in effect you are calling
all the women that have contacted
infections or became depressed after
abortion liars what a nice person you are.
No. I was merely saying that this comment
of yours
Quote:
legal abortions
can be just as
harmful
is a bunch of baloney. A woman is far
more likely to be harmed by illegal
abortion than she is legal abortion.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-03-08 14:49pm
diamond splinter
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
diamond splinter
wrote:
i am not saying there isn't
a risk in all operations i am just stating
that it isn't only illegal abortions that
can be harmfull to
women
However you must admit that the risk is
far far higher with an illegal
abortion.
Of course it is it is being done cloak and
dagger with very little sanitation for one
thing
Exactly, the opposite of a legal abortion
which is done in a clean clinic with
sterile equipment by trained doctors and
nurses.
|
msrosie
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 355 Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks: 4
Thanked:1
Posted: 01-03-08 15:15pm
yodavater
wrote:
Yes. And I read IN that study that they
admitted that their statistics were not
reliable, since figures on abortions done
in countries where it's illegal are only
guesses at best. So the whole study is
worthless.
They have ways of making educated
estimates. Of course, you might not
recognize this, as it doesn't fit with
your agenda.
msrosie
wrote:
Do you not realize that in developed
countries such as ours, with modern
communication technology such as the
internet, that information on how to
obtain illegal abortions would be very
easy to get?
Self-aborting is very dangerous, just like
treating yourself is generally. Without a
properly performed and read ultrasound,
it's impossible to rule out ectopic
pregnancies.
Not sure what your point is here. Women
who do not wish to be pregnant *will*
abort, legal or not - they do not think
about the issue of ultrasounds, which,
btw, are NOT necessary, especially when
gestational age is known. (I did not have
one before my legal abortion) They did it
before abortion became legal, and they
will do it again if abortion is ever
illegal again. Do you know anything about
the Jane network that existed pre-Roe?
Right now, there are many, many people
prepared to set up the same type of
networks should Roe ever fall.
msrosie
wrote:
Why do you think that it would be
drastically reduced just for being
illegal, especially in this day and
age?
Because basically, most people are
law-abiding.[/quote]
Most people don't commit major crimes such
as rape, homicide etc, but I'd bet dollars
to donuts most people under the age of 50
have smoked pot at least once in their
lives.
There is no reason to believe that women
would not abort illegally, since they did
before Roe and they do in countries where
it is illegal - at the same rate they
have abortions in countries where it's
legal. If you want to keep your head in
the sand, that's your prerogative, but the
fact that you'd rather make it illegal
than help reduce the numbers of unwanted
pregnancies makes one wonder if you are
more pro-control than pro-life.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3770 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 85
Thanked:11
Posted: 01-03-08 15:27pm
yodavater
wrote:
...the whole study is
worthless.
"More like guidelines."
|
Darkmoon
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 08 Dec 2007 Posts: 346 Location: ,
Thanks: 55
Thanked:40
Posted: 01-03-08 16:48pm
*Stares at Captain Jack and loses all
interest in the debate*
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