Columbine Killers Targeted Athletes,
minorities--and Christians
The one girl shot was Rachel Scott. The
guy who shot her asks if she was
Christian. When she said yes, he short
her. I’m not trying to disprove
anything you are saying sister. I am just
saying that there are people on in every
sector that do wrong things.
Actually I agree with you.. I don't think
men or women should protest out side of
clincs either. I have never fet that is
the way to get any point across..
I'm not a Christian because some radical
Christian pointed a finger at me and told
me I was going to go to Hell. Because that
would have been the last thing that would
make me become a christian..
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yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 12-17-07 15:47pm
sistersister
wrote:
yoda benham said that troy newmans letter
requesting money be sent to troy newman to
pay for sitting the grand jury was bogus
becuase the state of Kansas pays for the
grandjury not troy newman.
When you said "benham said", I knew the
rest would be a lie, and it was. I got the
"letter" from Troy, and it said no such
thing. He was asking for money for HIS
efforts, not to "pay the grand jury".
|
yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 12-17-07 15:55pm
meblonde01
wrote:
I have not heard one
pro-life person in here suggest that
pro-lifers should be protesting outside of
a clinic.
Well, let me be the first. Also, let me
be the first to say that in the five years
I've been protesting outside the local
killing mill, I've never seen a single
prolifer do or say anything of an
"agressive" nature. But I have seen quite
a few proaborts get aggressive there.
There are lots of rumors about violence,
but very little substance. There is a
federal law called the FACE act which
pretty much makes it a federal crime to do
anything to interfere with the operation
of an abortion mill.
And violence comes from the other side,
more often than not. Here's a website
that keeps up with "prochoice violence":
http://www.abortionviolence.com
/
|
yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 12-17-07 15:57pm
Birch
wrote:
Yodavater, link? Source?
Ask sister, she already referred to it
once in this thread.
|
yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 12-17-07 16:02pm
sistersister
wrote:
The thread of violence winds
all through the prolife
movement.
We get comments from both directions from
proaborts about the very few
antiabortionists who resort to violence.
One proabort commented on another forum
that "If she really did believe, as
prolifers say they do, that the unborn are
actually "babies, children, etc.", then
she would be down there at those clinics
putting that to a stop no matter what it
took. And then she chided us for our
"cowardice" for not physically shutting
down all abortion clinics, since "you
prolifers do believe that".
So it's hard to know what some proaborts
really think we ought to be doing.
|
sistersister
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 145 Location: ,
Posted: 12-17-07 18:13pm
yoda
1. go to flip benhams web site pull up the
article and read what he wrote then reread
my post and then tell me where I was
lying. (his article includes troys
letter).
2. I'm not required to provide sources
for your posts, only my own. You should
do as asked and provide the source or
admit you have none.
3. FACE is federal law and as such is
enforced by the feds. Most clinics go
through their local police to handle the
protestors. I can give our clinic as an
example. We ignore most of the nuiance
stuff simply becuase it is not worth
spending time on. The most constant thing
we have is the protestors standing in the
middle of our driveway and refusing to
move. They try to force us to go all the
way to one side. (mark gietzen (kcfl)
gives an account of this in one of his
insident reports in which one of our
nurses was forced to go back into the
parking lot and call the police becuase
they would not clear the drive. Do we
call the police each time, no. We simply
record the event on disk so that when the
police do have to show we can show it is a
repeated offence and not just one
occurance. Just as we record the
protestors diging hole in our park way to
put in their crosses.
We call police when there is tresspassing
and the police do arrest the offenders
(that is what the eight arrests have been
for) Also there have been some arrests
when the police have been out for other
things and a protestor has provoked the
police into arresting them simply becuase
of the protestors refusal to obey the
police (that has nothing to do with us).
When we have had threats called or mailed
in the police are involved and when we
have those who we know to be extremist
show up we let the police know.
Yoda the rumors of violence are harldly
exagerated. All one has to do is look at
the bombings, arsons,
assasinations,kidnapings, acid attacks,
and vandalism. Is there anyone here who
does not think that those act are violent?
There has been a steady stream of
violence since the eighties. The clinic
in Albequrque being the latest.
Now granted folk such as yoda tend to be
the ones that simply stand outside the
gate yelling and that is about it as far
as their physical paticapation goes.
However they are the cheering squad for
those who will commit more violent
activities.
I have a question, if it is apropriate for
yoda to call some of us proaborts then is
it OK for me to call him a fetus
worshiper? I am no more pro abortion than
I am pro appendectomy (I support those who
need them getting either with just about
the same ferver).
But since he brought it up "...proaborts
really think we ought to be doing."
Here would be my answer. If you oppose
abortion and want to reduce the number of
abortions then work for good practical sex
education, work to make birthcontrol
afordable and accessable, work to get
subsidised daycare for the working poor so
a woman won't have to decide wether to
keep her pregnancy or feed her existing
children. If you think abortion breaks
some moral code then teach your young that
and give them the means not to ever have
to face this decision, offer to do some
free cay care for a working mother
yourself, help bring up minimum wage to
where people on the lowest paying jobs can
still support their families, work for
decent accesable medical care for born
children, teach young girls to have self
esteme and self fullfillment that is not
tied to their apeal to males, teach young
men to have respect for their reproductive
abilities other than getting their rocks
off, talk your church into opening up its
nursery as a free or sliding scale day
care center for the working poor, work for
free prenatal and labor and delivery care
for all women, work to have new mothers
recieve state paid time off the first
years of their infants lives, Help
subsidise a family financially to help
them get on their feet.
And most important of all trust women to
make decisions for themselves. It is the
woman that has the pregnancy attached to
and using her body. It is the woman that
carries not only the zef but the risks and
the costs. It is the woman that if she is
to be anything more than a possible
incubator on legs must make the decision
for herself.
And face it yoda, the woman knows her
situation and circumstances while some old
geezer who does not even know her name
does not.
|
Darkmoon
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 08 Dec 2007 Posts: 380 Location: ,
Thanks: 72
Thanked:43
Posted: 12-17-07 19:40pm
Taking pictures of women and their license
plates is harassment, Yoda, and it can and
does lead to violence. You and your
fellow protesters violate women's right to
privacy and one day a real nutter is going
to use the private information you so
joyfully supply and go on a killing spree.
What's worse, half of those women you
harass aren't even going into the health
clinics to obtain an abortion, but to get
feminine checkups, prenatal care and birth
control.
I know that you and your kind don't give a
rat's patoot if women suffer from
gynecological ailments or eventually
contract fatal cancer due to being unable
to get feminine health care because of
prolifers, but plenty of other people do.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3963 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 129
Thanked:12
Posted: 12-17-07 19:58pm
yodavater
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
Yodavater, link? Source?
Ask sister, she already referred to it
once in this
thread.
You cannot back up your own
assertations?!? You outright quoted
someone, it is irresponsible of you to
refuse to cite your source.
I think it is because you were caught once
again being disingenuous.
I fight constantly with the idea that not
all prolife advocates are dishonest
individuals, but you are working against
me. It is fortunate for your movement
that meblonde, nightangel, and
diamondsplinter are here to provide a
juxtaposition for your dishonesty.
How do you expect to change anyone's mind
if you are not honest?
|
lucy315
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 123 Location: New Jersey, USA
Thanks: 10
Thanked:5
Posted: 12-18-07 01:14am
yodavater
wrote:
Well, let me be the first. Also, let me
be the first to say that in the five years
I've been protesting outside the local
killing mill, I've never seen a single
prolifer do or say anything of an
"agressive" nature. But I have seen quite
a few proaborts get aggressive
there.
I rarely post, because I don't like
arguing with people, but can you explain
what kind of aggressive behavior these
"proaborts" are showing. I really am just
being curious. I find it hard to believe
that in 5 years of protesting, that you
have not seen a single pro-lifer say
anything of an aggressive nature. What is
provoking these "proaborts" to be
aggressive?
Quote:
There are lots of
rumors about violence, but very little
substance. There is a federal law called
the FACE act which pretty much makes it a
federal crime to do anything to interfere
with the operation of an abortion
mill.
I had a "violent" altercation with a
protester. I posted my story on the
pro-choice forum, so I won't bore everyone
again. It was extremely scary, and what
happened to me is the main reason I am
here today.
Quote:
And violence
comes from the other side, more often than
not. Here's a website that keeps up with
"prochoice violence": http://www.abortionviolence.com
/
I do not condone what any of these people
have done, but a lot of the stories really
have nothing to do with the situation.
Many pro-life and pro-choice advocates
have probably committed homicide, but
unless it has to do with abortion/abortion
rights, it makes no sense. Just because a
pro-choicer killed a pregnant woman,
doesn't mean he did it because of his or
her abortion stance. Even if he had
killed her because she wouldn't abort his
child, it's still a "personal" situation.
Maybe she was pro-choice too, but wanted
to keep that child. A man who kills a
pregnant 15 year old to cover up the fact
that he was molesting her is not
pro-choice violence. It was a guy who was
trying to hide his sexual habits. And
again, 2 guys murdering a girl who
"thought" she was pregnant is not
pro-choice violence.
Then it goes on to list a bunch of stories
about people who are pro-choice who
axe-murdered their roommates, and
butchered people. This has NOTHING to do
with abortion. If a pro-lifer murdered
his roommate, is that considered pro-life
violence?
But what really made me re-think this
whole pro-choice violence website, was
when I saw a section called "Violence by
Homosexuals"!!! LOL! They might as well
make a section called "Violence by
Heterosexuals".
I must add, again, that I do NOT agree
with what any of these people have done.
|
Jincks013
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1173 Location: ,
Thanks: 22
Thanked:8
Posted: 12-18-07 07:40am
Here is a wild idea for you vater.
I go to planned parenthood several times a
year. I go get papsmears since I've had an
abnormal pap; I go for feminine checkups;
I go to get a pill that will stop my cycle
for all but 4 times a year.
I have to wade through protestors to do
it.
I get shouted at; called killer; have
hysterical people trying 'help' me 'save
my baby' despite the gray sprinkling my
black hair; despite anything logical.
Protestors have taken my picture, my car's
picture, handed my young daughter gory
pictures which gave her nightmares.. they
are not 'savings' anything and for the
*renal opening* who walked up to my
daughter and told her to tell her mommy
not to kill...as a testament to my
phenomenal control that person is still
walking, living and breathing though being
ripped into verbal shreds wasn't probably
the reaction they wanted.
I have yet to see a pro-choice person
doing these things. Why is that? Perhaps
because we know the way to get our message
across is not to threaten, harass and
attempt to intimidate. You could learn
here.
|
yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 12-18-07 10:54am
sistersister
wrote:
1. go to flip benhams web site pull up the
article and read what he wrote then reread
my post and then tell me where I was
lying. (his article includes troys
letter).
I think Flip lies, every time his mouth is
open. I never accused you of not quoting
him accurately.
sistersister
wrote:
3. FACE is federal law and as such is
enforced by the feds. Most clinics go
through their local police to handle the
protestors.
I've never heard of a mill being reluctant
to call the FBI and have FACE enforced....
but I've heard of them threatening
protesters with charges of violating it
many, many times.
sistersister
wrote:
Now granted folk such as yoda tend to be
the ones that simply stand outside the
gate yelling and that is about it as far
as their physical paticapation goes.
How lovely that you would accuse me of
"yelling" when you know absolutely nothing
about what I do.... or maybe you do, and
are just lying on me.... which is it? (I
don't "yell", I let my sign talk for me.)
sistersister
wrote:
I have a question, if it is apropriate for
yoda to call some of us proaborts then is
it OK for me to call him a fetus
worshiper?
"Proabortion" is in the dictionary, is
"fetus worshiper"?
sistersister
wrote:
And most important of all trust women to
make decisions for themselves.
Now, there's a novel idea! Why not trust
women to make ALL decisions for
themselves.... like whether to kill hubby,
father, daughter, mom, etc???
sistersister
wrote:
And face it yoda, the woman knows her
situation and circumstances while some old
geezer who does not even know her name
does not.
I agree totally with you there, I have no
idea about her circumstances. I do know,
however, that electively killing innocent
human beings is wrong.
|
yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 12-18-07 10:57am
Darkmoon
wrote:
Taking pictures of women and
their license plates is harassment, Yoda,
.
First, I don't take any photos of license
plates. Second, there is no legally
supportable expectation of privacy in
public, that's an oxymoron. Third, if
there was any violation of rights, I'd
have been arrested long ago. You're
creating laws that don't exist.
|
yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 12-18-07 10:59am
Birch
wrote:
How do you expect to change anyone's mind
if you are not
honest?
The sources that I would provide are from
a prolife website, which you would
immediately scream were "biased". So, I
suggested that you ask sister, since she
knows first hand about the matter, and has
already mentioned it in one of her posts.
But you choose not to do that, but rather
make yet another personal accusation
towards me. Why am I not surprised?
|
yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 12-18-07 11:05am
lucy315
wrote:
can you explain what kind of aggressive
behavior these "proaborts" are showing.
The ones I'm talking about are the
customers and employees of the mill. Many
of them threaten us, make vulgar hand
signals, and shout profane insults at us.
There is a long record of other proabort
violence posted on a website dedicated to
that subject: http://www.abortionviolence.com
/
lucy315
wrote:
I had a "violent" altercation with a
protester. I posted my story on the
pro-choice forum, so I won't bore everyone
again. It was extremely scary, and what
happened to me is the main reason I am
here today.
I have no knowledge of your situation, but
let me ask you this: How did this
incident make you more likely to abort?
Do you blame babies for it?
lucy315
wrote:
Many pro-life and
pro-choice advocates have probably
committed homicide, but unless it has to
do with abortion/abortion rights, it makes
no sense. Just because a pro-choicer
killed a pregnant woman, doesn't mean he
did it because of his or her abortion
stance. Even if he had killed her because
she wouldn't abort his child, it's still a
"personal" situation.
Gotta disagree with you there, that kind
of thing has everything to do with
abortion. If abortion wasn't legal, that
wouldn't be happening.
|
yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 12-18-07 11:13am
Jincks013
wrote:
Perhaps because we know the way to get
our message across is not to threaten,
harass and attempt to intimidate. You
could learn
here.
Unfortunately, your side does indeed
engage in violence, threats, harassment,
and intimidation as well.
As to your specific situation, I have no
way of commenting since I wasn't there,
and am not aware of any prolifers who do
the things you allege.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3963 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 129
Thanked:12
Posted: 12-18-07 11:17am
yodavater
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
How do you expect to change anyone's mind
if you are not
honest?
The sources that I would provide are from
a prolife website, which you would
immediately scream were "biased". So, I
suggested that you ask sister, since she
knows first hand about the matter, and has
already mentioned it in one of her posts.
But you choose not to do that, but rather
make yet another personal accusation
towards me. Why am I not
surprised?
On my next paper (I am in graduate school)
I will refuse to cite my sources, and when
I am suspended for plagarism and
dishonesty my defense will be a whiny "you
would have found my sources biased
anyways, so look them up yourself!" and
accuse the Academic Affairs committee of
personally attacking me.
They will laugh, my reputation will be
ruined and that will be the end of me
professionally.
Just as it is with you.
|
yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 12-18-07 11:33am
Birch
wrote:
They will laugh, my reputation will be
ruined and that will be the end of me
professionally.
But just think of all the fun you will
have!!
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3963 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 129
Thanked:12
Posted: 12-18-07 11:50am
yodavater
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
They will laugh, my reputation will be
ruined and that will be the end of me
professionally.
But just think of all the fun you will
have!!
Huh.
By your own admission you are being
actively dishonest to "have fun". Is this
the prolife way?
|
sistersister
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 145 Location: ,
Posted: 12-18-07 12:02pm
So getting the finger = shooting doctors,
bombing clinics, arsons, kidnapings ....
on your violence o meter?
I know more about you than you know are
you not the bearded geezer outside the
Knoxville clinic?
As for shouting things Let's see from our
protestors we get called whores and sluts.
I personally late one night while washing
off grafitti from our driveway was treated
to one of kcfl regulars screaming at me
how he was going to watch my blood flow
down the driveway (fortunately at the time
he was so high on something he had trouble
standing upright).
Our patients get called the uasual
"muderer" we have one lovely female
protestor that calls the patients male
companions "people" when they won't talk
to her. Our patients get called sluts and
whores.
On the side I would like to make an
observation. If you stand and block
someones vehicle, call them names and yell
at them should you be surprised that they
flip you off? The only violence (fingger
flipping and shouting back, name calling)
that goen on towards the protestors at our
clinic is the result of provocation by the
protestors themselves. Provoking someone
to anger usually gets a reaction, an angry
reaction.
In my many years around the clinics I have
found that the anti abortion protests at
the gates tend to draw out men who have
not been exactly sucessful in their own
lives who have control issues where women
are concerned. It is the one place these
guys can go and yell a women they do not
even know, call them names and verbally
abuse them with out condemnation by their
cohorts.
|
sistersister
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 145 Location: ,
Posted: 12-18-07 12:06pm
I will add that not all the male
protestors fall into that catagory just a
very high percentage.
