Pro-choice, Anti-choice, Pro-life And Pro-abortion Posted: 12-20-07 16:20pm
OPINIONS ONLY. I will ignore any and ALL
dictionary definitions on this topic. I
don't care what a dictionary has to say: I
care what YOU have to say.
There have been a couple of debates going
on with the semantics of these four
phrases on several threads, so I've
decided to try and collect this debate
onto one thread.
Here are MY opinions, arranged in the
spectrum from one extreme to the other:
Pro-Abortion - You believe
abortion is the right answer in most - if
not all - cases of unwanted pregnancy. You
believe abortions are NEVER ethically
wrong, no matter how many abortions a
woman has or how late she aborts. You may
be in support of teens being forced to
have abortions. You are probably
fully-supportive of China's population
control program which involves abortions,
sometimes forced.
Pro-Choice - You believe
abortion is the woman's choice. You may or
may not LIKE abortion as the choice, but
you feel it is not your place to tell
someone what to do. You attempt to stay
neutral when discussing what to do with an
unwanted pregnancy, presenting the three
choices of abortion, adoption and keeping
the baby in realistic ways. You may or may
not wish for restrictions on abortions
relating to the numbers of abortions a
woman may have or how late she may have
one. You can understand that abortion is
NOT always the "best" answer and would
NEVER force an abortion OR birth on a
woman.
Pro-Life - You do not like
abortion. You feel abortions are wrong
because they kill potential babies.
However, you may still approve of
abortions in cases of maternal danger,
rape, or fetal deformity. You can
understand that sometimes, abortion might
be the right answer. You may or may not
wish to make abortion illegal, or you may
simply wish to talk to women about
choosing life and encouraging them to give
birth and adopt.
Anti-Choice - You are
completely against abortion. You feel it
is never right to kill the unborn child,
not even in cases of fetal deformity or
rape. You MAY allow abortion in the case
of maternal danger, but you may not. You
may feel that the unborn's potential life
is more important than the mother's life
and that she should die for her uborn
child. You will fight heavily to make
abortion illegal and feel it shouldn't be
legal at all.
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yodavater
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Re: Pro-choice, Anti-choice, Pro-life And Pro-abortion Posted: 12-20-07 16:25pm
Eiri
wrote:
OPINIONS ONLY. I will ignore
any and ALL dictionary definitions on this
topic. I don't care what a dictionary has
to say: I care what YOU have to
say.
Fair enough.
I think I'll start a thread on "The
effects of pollution on aquatic life", and
reject all actual scientific evidence
submitted..... and only accept opinions
instead.
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Tylanas
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Posted: 12-20-07 16:32pm
Please stay on topic. Either get off this
thread, or post your own opinions about
the question.
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Darkmoon
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Posted: 12-20-07 16:39pm
I think that using terms people know are
offensive and considered inaccurate by the
majority of the other side is a dishonest
way to frame a debate. We could go on all
day long about why we think we're
justified in using these terms for the
opposition, and the recipients of said
terms could go on all day long about why
it's inaccurate and offensive.
It would go absolutely nowhere because
neither side will listen or accept these
"provocative" terms for their stance.
I feel it's better to either specify a
separate group or person from the rest of
the stance when using such terms or avoid
using them altogether. Everyone loses
their cool now and then and slips up, but
that's a far cry from deliberately and
repeatedly using the terms and then
insisting that the other side shouldn't do
the same.
I think it turns a debate into a
schoolyard playground where everyone is
more interested in shouting "I know you
are, but what am I?" than actually
discussing the issues.
There's my tuppence.
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jenn_smithson
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Re: Pro-choice, Anti-choice, Pro-life And Pro-abortion Posted: 12-20-07 16:49pm
Okay, I know you said you didn't want
dictionary definitions but if I may just
add a couple of things about the
dictionary definitions?
First, the definitions of the "prochoice"
and "proabortion" are identical with
regards to the dictionary. Obviously,
though, both of those stances are NOT
identical or there would be no need to
argue the semantics of either or for
anyone to use one over the other for any
specific purpose. That they are being
used to highlight different attitudes or
different ranges of an attitude indicates
that emotionally, despite whatever their
definitions are, the two words have
different meanings to each of us and thus,
are different. Because the dictionary
only recognizes vague meanings, the nuance
of each is left for us to determine.
To me, then, "proabortion" means favoring
abortion as the only choice for every
pregnancy. However few their numbers are,
there are people who believe that no one
should be reproducing or that only they
should be allowed to reproduce.
"Prochoice" means supporting legalized
abortion as A choice that a pregnant woman
can make. (Which is the definition of
both words).
It is interesting to note, though, that
the dictionary definitions of "prolife"
and "antichoice" are different from one
another. The overly simplified definition
of "prolife" is someone opposed to
legalized abortion. The overly simplified
definition of "antichoice" is someone
"opposed to the concept that a
pregnant woman has the right to choose
abortion."
Really, I think in this case, the
dictionary definitions do both labels some
amount of justice.
And the dictionary, just in case some of
you don't know, isn't really "proof" of
anything. It is not the same as study
findings or experiment results.
Re: Pro-choice, Anti-choice, Pro-life And Pro-abortion Posted: 12-20-07 17:22pm
yodavater
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
OPINIONS ONLY. I will ignore
any and ALL dictionary definitions on this
topic. I don't care what a dictionary has
to say: I care what YOU have to
say.
Fair enough.
I think I'll start a thread on "The
effects of pollution on aquatic life", and
reject all actual scientific evidence
submitted..... and only accept opinions
instead.
Absolutely fantastic! I wouldn't have even
been able to think that one up . At
the moment I consider you as the only
person who fully understands my posts and
possible I am the only person who
undestands yours. That's pretty sad really
since our views on abortion are totally
different, but che sera .
Eiri, I'm afraid that I'll have to discuss
dictionary definitions otherwise discussing
semantics would be pointless!.
Words don't mean what people think fits
their opinions; they have established
nuances!
Eiri
wrote:
yodavater
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
I am NOT pro-abortion.
.
Fine. Then you are AGAINST the legal
status of elective abortion, because
that's what proabortion means.
You can continue to make up your "fantasy"
definitions all day long, but I will stick
to REAL definitions,
thanks!
No, pro-abortion means you believe that
abortion is the right solution in most -
if not all - cases of pregnancy. If you
are pro-abortion you may even support
forced abortions and promoting abortion
beyond simply informing a woman of the
choice; you will in fact try to actively
convince most women to abort their
pregnancies for whatever reason. You do
not believe there is ever anything
ethically wrong with an abortion no matter
how many a woman has or how late-term she
aborts.
THAT is
pro-abortion.
Eiri, don't hide your intelligence. It's
like talking to a brick wall. Pro-abortionDOES NOT mean that,
at all! Pro-abortion = FOR/IN SUPPORT OF
ABORTION. There is no logic
or bases whatsoever for
saying that it means "believing abortion
is the right solution for all
pregnancies". It's like you picked the
definition out of a hat-full of 200
possibilities.
For as long as you keep denying what pro-abortion denotes I'll
say that pro-choice means "belief
that the choice to abort blond-haired
babies can only be justified provided that
the woman conceived the foetus on a
Wednesday afternoon". It's that
ridiculous. Semantics are vital to the
abortion debate.
__________
Based on what the terms mean in reality
(not a pro-choice fairytale) and logic:
Pro-choice = literally
means "supports/for/in favour of choice".
Supports the legal right of a woman to
choose to have an abortion (personal
attitudes are irrelevant. Somebody who
finds abortion to be abhorrent yet
nevertheless an inherent right would still
be pro-choice - her own choice being that
she wouldn't ever terminate)
Pro-abortion =
literally means "supports/for/in favour of
abortion". Supports the legal right of a
woman to choose to have an abortion (personal
attitudes are irrelevant. Somebody who
finds abortion to be abhorrent yet
nevertheless an inherent right would still
be pro-abortion - her own choice being
that she wouldn't ever terminate). The
tenuous difference between pro-abortion and pro-choice lies in the
verbatim denotations of the terms. For
example, a forced abortion would fall
under the former ("for abortion") and not
the latter (it isn't "for choice").
Regardless, it doesn't necessarily mean
that somebody who identifies as
pro-abortion advocates forced abortions.
To conclude, all pro-choicers are
pro-abortion but not all pro-abortionists
are pro-choice (as in the case above).
Pro-life = literally
means "supports/for/in favour of life".
Opposes the legal right of a woman to
choose to have an abortion. It seeks,
thus, to make abortion illegal.
Anti-choice =
literally means "against/opposed to
choice". Opposes the legal right of a
woman to choose to have an abortion. It
seeks, thus, to make abortion illegal. The
tenuous difference is exactly the same as
between pro-choice and pro-abortion - forced
abortions are anti-choice, but not
pro-life (obviously!). Regardless, it
doesn't necessarily mean all anti-choicers
support forced abortions.
To conclude, all pro-lifers are
anti-choice but not all anti-choicers are
pro-life (as in the case above). In fact,
based on semantics and definitions, forced
abortions are better described as
anti-choice rather than pro-abortion for
reasons of accuracy.
Eiri, you may have been quick to speak
disparagingly of yoda, but s/he was spot
on. If you want to discuss these terms
based on opinions then go to a primary
school class. Based on that logic,
abortion is murder because that is the
pro-lifers' opinions of it. It isn't
logically cohesive.
Pro-abortion is almost
identical to pro-choice but with a
different emphasis, just as pro-life
and anti-choice are. The terms
aren't disgusting or pejorative - use them
and wear them with pride because they
represent your beliefs. You once said you
aren't and never would be pro-abortion, in
which case you are pro-life and seek the
delegalisation of abortion. The risibly
inane concept that pro-abortion inherently
means "supports abortion in every case of
every pregnancy... and supports the forced
abortion policy in China" is a
pro-choice-made load of bullpoop. It has
no backbone and has sprung out of nowhere
because of politically correct
"I'm-scared-to-stop-using-euphemisms"
pro-choicers who can't hold a proper
debate.
Sorry, love.
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Tylanas
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Posted: 12-20-07 17:29pm
Thank you for sharing your OPINIONS, but
the attitude wasn't necessary.
Remember, no matter what YOU think about
the definitions of these terms, they are
only OPINIONS and not everyone thinks the
same way you do. The point of this thread
is to see what everyone's OPINIONS are in
relation to these four terms.
I'll be honest. I didn't really read most
of your post because it was snarky and
full of attitude. If you'd like to
re-write it politely, then I'll read it.
I've discovered on this forum that the
best thing to do when people have
attitudes is to ignore them.
Me
with the attitude? I think that offends me
more than anything. I could say that you
have an attitude (as I think you do)
regarding the constant spineless refusal
to accept pro-abortion, but why be
defeatist and ignore it? That's utterly
child-like and resolves nothing at all. I
am met with a lot of so-called attitude on
these fora but it won't stop me debating
what I feel is right. I hate to dwell on
the issue and don't really want it
mentioned but I truly believe that, as a
16-year old, I've done very well in
maintaining my position on this
discussion.
What I've said aren't mere opinion, if
you'll allow me to explain. They are my
descriptions that explain
logically-backed, properly-established
definitions.
Don't bother creating a new thread if
you're going to ignore well-grounded posts
(full of expression, not snarkiness (if
that's not a word I apologise in advance))
you don't like. I invite you to throughly
read my post, if you wish to sort out this
argument.
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Birch
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Posted: 12-20-07 17:46pm
I haven't said anything about this whole
definition business yet because I've been
carefully reading what everyone has to
say. I'm going to put my two cents in
now.
Proabortion and prochoice are the same
thing.
Prolife and antichoice are the same
thing.
I recognize that slang definitions may be
attached by the misinformed so I will
restrain myself from using 'proabortion'
and 'antichoice' to avoid a barrage of
semantic mud slinging that only clouds the
issue and inadvertently makes people look,
well, ridiculously in denial or immensely
insecure.
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Tylanas
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Posted: 12-20-07 17:46pm
Eiri,
don't hide your intelligence. It's like
talking to a brick wall.
It's like you picked the definition out of
a hat-full of 200 possibilities.
For as long as you keep denying what
pro-abortion denotes I'll say that
pro-choice means "belief that the choice
to abort blond-haired babies can only be
justified provided that the woman
conceived the foetus on a Wednesday
afternoon". It's that ridiculous.
Based on what the terms mean in reality
(not a pro-choice fairytale) and
logic
The
risibly inane concept that
pro-abortion inherently means "supports
abortion in every case of every
pregnancy... and supports the forced
abortion policy in China" is a pro-choice-made
load of bullpoop.
It has no
backbone and has sprung out of
nowhere because of politically
correct
"I'm-scared-to-stop-using-euphemisms"
pro-choicers who can't hold a proper
debate. Sorry,
love.
All of the above, most notably the parts
bolded, are full of attitude and in some
cases right-out insults. Please don't try
to act like you're the innocent one. Now
it's too late to edit your post, but you
could try re-typing it.
|
Birch
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Posted: 12-20-07 17:48pm
Kypros
wrote:
I hate to dwell on the
issue and don't really want it mentioned
but I truly believe that, as a 16-year
old, I've done very well in maintaining my
position on this discussion.
You're sixteen???
Fantastic!!!
There is hope for the world.
|
Tylanas
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Posted: 12-20-07 17:50pm
Birch
wrote:
I haven't said anything
about this whole definition business yet
because I've been carefully reading what
everyone has to say. I'm going to put my
two cents in now.
Proabortion and prochoice are the same
thing.
Prolife and antichoice are the same
thing.
I recognize that slang definitions may be
attached by the misinformed so I will
restrain myself from using 'proabortion'
and 'antichoice' to avoid a barrage of
semantic mud slinging that only clouds the
issue and inadvertently makes people look,
well, ridiculously in denial or immensely
insecure.
Do you think it may be time in this long
debate to widen out scope? I've met so
many pro-lifers who aren't obsessed with
stopping every single abortion; yet they
and I would never classify them as
pro-choice. I've stopped trying to tell
someone who considers them-self pro-life
that they are pro-choice. Instead, I have
realised that what I need to do is
redefine my concepts of pro-choice and
pro-life. That's the major thing I've
learned on this forum.
The abortion debate is not black and white
- I've always known that. It thus seems
ridiculous to me that the "sides" are
black and white too.
I've remained pro-choice, but my views of
the other side have changed considerably.
I think just because someone has remained
a brick-wall in their beliefs doesn't make
them commendable. If a pro-lifer had said
what Kypros just said, you would tell them
they're just blinding themselves. Talk
about a double standard.
Eiri, don't hide your intelligence.
It's like talking to a brick wall.
It's like you picked the definition out of
a hat-full of 200 possibilities.
For as long as you keep denying what
pro-abortion denotes I'll say that
pro-choice means "belief that the choice
to abort blond-haired babies can only be
justified provided that the woman
conceived the foetus on a Wednesday
afternoon". It's that ridiculous.
Based on what the terms mean in reality
(not a pro-choice fairytale) and
logic
The
risibly inane concept that
pro-abortion inherently means "supports
abortion in every case of every
pregnancy... and supports the forced
abortion policy in China" is a pro-choice-made
load of bullpoop.
It has no
backbone and has sprung out of
nowhere because of politically
correct
"I'm-scared-to-stop-using-euphemisms"
pro-choicers who can't hold a proper
debate. Sorry,
love.
All of the above, most notably the parts
bolded, are full of attitude and in some
cases right-out insults. Please don't try
to act like you're the innocent one. Now
it's too late to edit your post, but you
could try re-typing
it.
Sorry, Eiri, but I do (unashamedly) think
I'm the innocent one. The things you
highlighted would only be considered
offensive in terms of political
correctness (to which, by the way, I
categorically object); I just seem them as
vivid expressions of free speech. I don't,
not even looking back at them now, see
them as pejorative or snarky and that
definitely wasn't the intention. And they
weren't personally directed at you either,
if that's the impression you got.
Birch
wrote:
You're sixteen???
Fantastic!!!
There is hope for the
world.
Are things that bad !
Eiri
wrote:
Do you think it may be time
in this long debate to widen out scope?
I've met so many pro-lifers who aren't
obsessed with stopping every single
abortion; yet they and I would never
classify them as pro-choice. I've stopped
trying to tell someone who considers
them-self pro-life that they are
pro-choice. Instead, I have realised that
what I need to do is redefine my concepts
of pro-choice and pro-life. That's the
major thing I've learned on this forum.
The abortion debate is not black and white
- I've always known that. It thus seems
ridiculous to me that the "sides" are
black and white
too.
I disagree. Why should I try to change -
or even want to try to change - an
established meaning just because certain
people cannot relate to it? That's
ridiculous and provokes problems like this
very one we're embroiled in. It's such
people who need to re-define their
mistaken concepts of pro-life
and pro-choice. As I said
before, a woman who finds abortion
ethically abhorrent but still doesn't want
to enforce that ideal on the law is
essentially pro-choice - her choice being
that she would never abort. Naturally, she
would feel more at home on a pro-life
forum, since her personal views are
mirrored there. Feeling pro-life and
actually being pro-life are different and
can often be divorced, as in this case.
Such a woman is somewhat morally pro-life
yet politically pro-choice, although such
an descriptive addition is not necessary:
at the nitty-gritty, she's just
pro-choice, as pro-choice refers to
stances vis-a-vis the law, not personal
dis/like.
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Tylanas
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Posted: 12-20-07 18:15pm
I'm just going to ignore you. I am
attempting to introduce a concept you
clearly don't want to even consider. You
want to keep the definitions black and
white. I don't. We're not going to agree
and you're not going to be able to have a
conversation on this particular thread in
a logical way because I'm asking people to
discuss something you are 100% against.
Please; I want to have a conversation with
people about these four concepts and I
can't do that with you on here telling me
that my opinions are completely wrong.
Opinions can't be wrong or right. Your
interpretations of these terms are right
for you and you alone. Maybe people agree
with you, maybe they don't. I want to see
how people feel about my ideas; I do not
want people like you telling me I am
wrong.
I'm sorry, but I feel that I've introduced
a concept several times on other threads
that you don't want to even
consider. I'm not telling you your
opinions are wrong; I'm telling you your
idea that semantics are or should be
defined by people's opinions is irrational
and incorrect. I'm discussing the
meanings of these four concepts;
you aren't. You're discussing how
pro-choicers past and present have
unforgivably and baselessly manipulated
the terms to suit their own propaganda.
It's not in the slightest a matter of "if
that label suits you, then it's fairly
right for you, but not for me", since by
that logic the art of debating would be
killed and it would be pointless telling
an anti-choicer that abortion isn't
murder, because that, of
course wouldn't suit him/her.
I'm not trying to keep these definitions
black and white since I have no right to
change the definitions at all, which is
logical. This is why I base my posts on
what the facts are, and the facts are how
I have described the four concepts in a
post you childlishly refuse to read. I
just find that you are showing no attempt
to even comprehend the point of semantics
and why they exist; they certainly
wouldn't exist if concepts were defined
individually based on what suits him/her.
That's nonsensical and not even worth
bringing up in an educated discussion.
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Darkmoon
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Posted: 12-20-07 18:31pm
I've got a couple of questions for you,
Kypros. Why are you so obsessed with
forcing prochoicers to call themselves by
a term they find inaccurate and insulting,
and why aren't you making the same
constant demands of prolifers? I doubt
your intentions.
You seem to have a totally disingenuous
outlook on my whole intentions, and
equally haven't conveyed the will to hear
me out since the two questions wouldn't
have needed to've been asked if you read
my previous posts. Firstly, what possible
other intentions could I possibly have
?
That baffles me; secondly, I'm not
obsessed with forcing pro-choicers to call
themselves by a term they find inaccurate
and insulting. I couldn't give a damn
whether they ever used the terms in their
lifetime, but if they do, I feel it is
only fair if they do so in the correct
context, not some ridiculously thought-up
fake meaning by pro-choicers who seem to
fear being labelled by anything
non-euphemistic. I want pro-choicers to
recognise and accept that they are
inextricably pro-abortionists. It isn't
pejorative and anybody who finds
pro-abortion offensive must find
pro-choice or "being in support of the
legal right to abortion" offensive, too;
I'm not forcing them to utilise the terms.
Nonetheless, I have no qualms with using
either pro-choice or pro-abortion and I'm
pleased that pro-lifer yodavater has
freely made use of anti-choice; thirdly, I've
done exactly the same for pro-lifers on
various threads, as you would have noticed
more than once if you cared to peruse my
notes. Check the discussions between yoda
and me. I've concentrated more centrally
on pro-choicers/pro-abortionists because
they, not pro-lifers/anti-choicers, have
been the majority respondants to my posts
and I'd like to mention the issue, as a
pro-choicer, to people whose views I can
better conform to.
A couple of questions for you: why do you
(ostensibly blindly) follow erroneous
definitions that are not rationally or
factually backed? Why do you find "being
in support of the legal right to choose
abortion" (=pro-abortion) offensive and
inaccurate? I'm questioning your motives.
|
Darkmoon
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Posted: 12-20-07 20:01pm
Kypros
wrote:
You seem to have a totally
disingenuous outlook on my whole
intentions,
Oh, really? Then answer the question.
Why aren't you dogging the prolifers of
the board who object to the terms "anti
choice" and "pro liar" the way you're
dogging the prochoicers?
Kypros
wrote:
Firstly, what possible other
intentions could I possibly have
Confused?
Given your fixation on applying a term
that is logically inaccurate to the
motives and feelings of the majority of
prochoicers here, your snotty replies to
those who don't agree with you and the
number of topics you've derailed to make
your demands, your declared intentions
lack credibility. Not to mention the fact
that I haven't seen you latch onto any of
the prolifers the way you have Eirie
except to give Yoda a prostate massage
with your nose because he agrees with your
opinion concerning the use of the term.
Honestly I have my doubts that you're
really an advocate for abortion rights.
You've made a few token comments to
prolifers (I suspect for the sake of
appearance) but you've directed an awful
lot of venom at people you claim to share
a cause with, and all because you’re
offended that they won’t accept being
called what is to them an insult.
Kypros
wrote:
I couldn't give a damn
whether they ever used the terms in their
lifetime, but if they do, I feel it is
only fair if they do so in the correct
context, not some ridiculously thought-up
fake meaning by pro-choicers who seem to
fear being labelled by anything
non-euphemistic.
All meanings are "thought-up" by someone,
including the meaning that you choose to
endorse. Jen actually explained it quite
nicely in her post above, if you care to
read it. The terms aren't mutually
exclusive to one another because they
represent different stances on the issue.
Those in favor of protecting women's right
to ALL reproductive choices logically call
themselves PROCHOICE because they don't
advocate any one decision over the other;
instead they leave it up to the woman in
question and support her right to that
decision. Use of the term PROABORTION
implies that only one reproductive choice
is supported, which is inaccurate and
insulting to some because they are
fighting to keep women's choices free, not
limited to one outcome.
Likewise many prolifers take offense at
being called anti choice because they are
focused on preserving the lives of the
unborn, rather than the woman’s
choices.
Kypros
wrote:
I want pro-choicers to
recognise and accept that they are
inextricably
pro-abortionists.
<
span class="postbody">
I've never performed an abortion in my
life, nor do I intend to. Referring to me
or any other choice supporter except for
actual doctors who perform abortion as any
kind of "abortionist" is about as accurate
as calling a member of the Humane Society
a veterinarian. While it's flattering
that you think we're all talented enough
to be surgeons, it's not accurate and I
suspect you know that, so I can only
conclude that your intention here is to
insult. Since you're so fond of
dictionary definitions, here's one for
you:
A couple of questions for
you: why do you (ostensibly blindly)
follow erroneous definitions that are not
rationally or factually backed?
I don't. There's nothing erroneous about
the refusal to use a word that does not
accurately describe oneself. After all,
according to some definitions black people
are the "N" word and while one wouldn't be
technically wrong to refer to them that
way by definition alone, it's certainly
not acceptable nor should it have ever
been. Homosexual people are by some
definitions "people" but again, why should
they accept being referred to by a word
that was twisted and assigned new meaning
by people who hate them? Think about it.
Kypros
wrote:
Why do you find "being in
support of the legal right to choose
abortion" (=pro-abortion) offensive and
inaccurate? I'm questioning your
motives.
I find nothing offensive about being known
as a person who supports the legal right
to choose abortion. As I explained above,
my umbrage comes from the intent to narrow
my stance down to a single choice. I
wouldn't personally find "proabortion"
offensive if abortion was the only
pregnancy outcome I supported, but since
I'm also pro-birth and pro-adoption the
term is inaccurate to my stance. Ergo,
prochoice is the most accurate and logical
summary of what I support.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3962 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 126
Thanked:12
Posted: 12-20-07 22:13pm
Ooooh, five stars to this thread!!
|
sed_grep_awk
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 9 Location: earth
Re: Pro-choice, Anti-choice, Pro-life And Pro-abortion Posted: 12-20-07 22:37pm
Eiri
wrote:
OPINIONS ONLY. I will ignore
any and ALL dictionary definitions on this
topic. I don't care what a dictionary has
to say: I care what YOU have to
say.
Pro-abortion Someone who
actively attempts to persuade pregnant
females to have abortions. I picture
someone protesting outside a women's
health clinic, trying to grab pregnant
women--who are happy to be pregnant and
have no intention of ending their
pregnancies--and coerce them into having
abortions. Extreme, yeah, I know, but
that's how I see it--kind of like the
opposite of the "pro-life" people who
protest outside abortion clinics.
Pro-choice This is what I am.
As I see it, a truly pro-choice person
would NEVER attempt to talk someone else
into having an abortion. Rather, we
listen attentively and offer support,
neutral support, to a woman/girl dealing
with an unwanted pregnancy. If she CHOOSES
to have an abortion, we might personally
not like it (I know I don't--I always wish
abortion would just never be necessary),
but we'll still support her in her choice.
If she chooses to give the baby up for
adoption, same thing, we'll support her
and try to help her see the good parts of
adoption so she'll feel good about her
choice. Should she choose to keep her
baby, we offer support and reassurance
that she can handle being a parent, even
if she's afraid or unsure at the moment.
Basically, in my opinion, pro-choice comes
down to exactly what its name implies.
Pro-life I believe this is
usually a misnomer for the people it's
applied to. I don't think they're
necessarily pro-LIFE, in its truest sense,
but are instead anti-choice--but won't
call themselves that. From what I've seen,
people who call themselves pro-life tend
to be against social programs that would
make LIVING children happier, healthier,
better educated, better fed, etc., and
that contradicts the whole concept of
being pro-life. So, in my opinion, the
term pro-life should be reserved for
people--like myself!--who care about the
quality of life children have AFTER
they're born.
Anti-choice This is what the
vast majority of so-called pro-lifers
actually are. They are against abortion,
sometimes in all situations (even
including rape/incest), sometimes only in
certain situations (such as abortions done
purely for the mother's convenience).
They're basically misogynists who think
THEY are better prepared to make decisions
for other people than the pregnant female
themselves. They don't think there should
be any choice in the matter--other than
their favorite catchphrase, that is: "If
you don't want to have a baby, KEEP YOUR
LEGS CLOSED!"
So there you have it--my opinions about
the four terms.
. At
the moment I consider you as the only
person who fully understands my posts and
possible I am the only person who
undestands yours. That's pretty sad really
since our views on abortion are totally
different, but che sera 
.
?
That baffles me; secondly, I'm not
obsessed with forcing pro-choicers to call
themselves by a term they find inaccurate
and insulting. I couldn't give a damn
whether they ever used the terms in their
lifetime, but if they do, I feel it is
only fair if they do so in the correct
context, not some ridiculously thought-up
fake meaning by pro-choicers who seem to
fear being labelled by anything
non-euphemistic. I want pro-choicers to
recognise and accept that they are
inextricably pro-abortionists. It isn't
pejorative and anybody who finds
pro-abortion offensive must find
pro-choice or "being in support of the
legal right to abortion" offensive, too;
I'm not forcing them to utilise the terms.
Nonetheless, I have no qualms with using
either pro-choice or pro-abortion and I'm
pleased that pro-lifer yodavater has
freely made use of 
