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fallingangel04

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abortion is not right Posted: 02-22-08 22:08pm


i am having my second child, my husband and i are far from rich, were working at a poultry plant with two morgages on the house, he's 27 and im only 22 i had my first one with i was barely 20. for the life of me i would never kill my baby. i know people who want a baby so bad and they don't care that its not perfect the would love it no matter what, one of my friends has been pregnant 2 times but miscarries everytime, she would love to have a baby, with so many out there like her why kill a life. just because its not breathing on its on yet does not mean its not human.. a person can homicide a pregnant woman and get charged for 2 counts of homicide, so how is an abortion justified. now im am keeping my baby, just like i kept my son. anyone who has sex should be able to except full responsibility for it, stressed out or not, its an innocent gift from god, not a burden, sometimes with my 2 year old i feel like ripping my hair out sometimes, but trust me its well worth it, and if money is your excuse for an abortion, the government is there to help you, the only babies out there that are starving in this country are ones who have mothers that don't even try, forget about your existence for a sec, you say you can't afford it, well get a job, and stop wasting money on new clothes and all the unneeded accessories in your life and focus only on the life that you are carrying that you ended up with cause apparently having sex was something you had to do right??? now if the pregnancy is ectopic, those babies don't survive and kill the mother, i can understand that one, but if your not having any life threatening complications, honestly tell me, why abort?

Darkmoon

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Posted: 02-22-08 22:48pm


Abortion is a pregnancy choice. Adoption is a parenting choice. If a woman is not willing to gestate and give birth or is unable to do so without complications, having the option to relinquish a born baby doesn't help or even calculate into her situation. Adoption is something for people to choose when they are willing and able to carry to term but unwilling or unable to parent the resulting offspring. Another thing that people continuously refuse to consider is how a pregnancy is going to affect a woman's financial and educational situation. Not every job offers paid maternity leave and though it's illegal to discriminate against female employees for reasons of pregnancy status, a woman can still be fired if she is unable to fulfill her obligations as an employee and becomes a financial liability to her employers. This is something that men are completely safe from in the course of reproduction because their biological part is finished once they ejaculate and they are in no way physically affected. The women are the ones who are put into a terrible situation, and all too often they must do it alone. This is why it makes me grit my teeth in anger when men flippantly brush of unwanted pregnancy as an "inconvenience" to the woman. That's really easy to say when their lives aren't the ones being screwed up or endangered by a pregnancy, isn't it? Oh, and by the by, it isn't women's duty to breed for those who can't. We aren't livestock. We don't need to live in "The handmaid's Tale", thank you.

Birch

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Re: abortion is not right
Posted: 02-23-08 02:18am

fallingangel04 wrote:

i am having my second child, my husband and i are far from rich, were working at a poultry plant with two morgages on the house, he's 27 and im only 22 i had my first one with i was barely 20. for the life of me i would never kill my baby. i know people who want a baby so bad and they don't care that its not perfect the would love it no matter what, one of my friends has been pregnant 2 times but miscarries everytime, she would love to have a baby, with so many out there like her why kill a life. just because its not breathing on its on yet does not mean its not human.. a person can homicide a pregnant woman and get charged for 2 counts of homicide, so how is an abortion justified. now im am keeping my baby, just like i kept my son. anyone who has sex should be able to except full responsibility for it, stressed out or not, its an innocent gift from god, not a burden, sometimes with my 2 year old i feel like ripping my hair out sometimes, but trust me its well worth it, and if money is your excuse for an abortion, the government is there to help you, the only babies out there that are starving in this country are ones who have mothers that don't even try, forget about your existence for a sec, you say you can't afford it, well get a job, and stop wasting money on new clothes and all the unneeded accessories in your life and focus only on the life that you are carrying that you ended up with cause apparently having sex was something you had to do right???
now if the pregnancy is ectopic, those babies don't survive and kill the mother, i can understand that one, but if your not having any life threatening complications, honestly tell me, why abort?

I'm so sick of this stuff.

Is it even worth responding?

Well, then I think about manuflt82. She changed her mind.

Alright, alright...goddammit.

fallingangel04 wrote:

Women are not sows. I am not obligated to put my life and health in danger because your friend can't gestate.

fallingangel04 wrote:

anyone who has sex should be able to except full responsibility for it, stressed out or not, its an innocent gift from god,

Taking responsibilty for your pregnancy can mean having an abortion.

Why isn't god giving your friend an "innocent gift"?

fallingangel04 wrote:

iometimes with my 2 year old i feel like ripping my hair out sometimes, but trust me its well worth it, and if money is your excuse for an abortion, the government is there to help you,

*cups hands together and yells: *Hey! Futureshock! Here's someone who advocates getting on welfare if you have a kid! Go to town!

fallingangel04 wrote:

the only babies out there that are starving in this country are ones who have mothers that don't even try,

*with a Western drawl...* Oh...yeah...ya got anything to prove that?

fallingangel04 wrote:

forget about your existence for a sec, you say you can't afford it, well get a job, and stop wasting money on new clothes and all the unneeded accessories in your life and focus only on the life that you are carrying that you ended up with cause apparently having sex was something you had to do right

I'm so glad you brought this up because we all know that pregnant women who obtain abortions are just doing it because they want new clothes and unneeded accessories, and by golly, since they just had to have sex pregnancy should be their burden to bear!!

Cambion

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Posted: 02-23-08 06:49am


What a crock. Keeping an unwanted fetus because there are women who can't carry to term or who cannot conceive is like saying you should let cancer go untreated because there are some people whose cancer doesn't respond to chemotherapy, or that you shouldn't cut your hair because some people are bald or have receding hairlines. What is right for one person is not right for another.

sistersister

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Posted: 02-23-08 10:58am


You yourself would never have an abortion, and I would fight to the death to make sure you were never forced to have one aginst your will. That in no way is a reason to force women to carry pregnancies to term that they feel just a stronly about aborting as you would about not aborting. Those women that cannot have a baby ontheir own can adopt the many older children that are waithing in the system. If they are xian and they really believe that "god" is working in all things they should except their inability as "gods" plan. Very young women and poor women should not be turned into brood animals for those women that can aford a private adoption. Also if a child is brought into the world it should be with its family so it knows where it comes from. They should not be trinkets that can be bought from poor women by those with money. If I remember correctly not to long a go the average cost for a private adoption was thirty thousand dollars for an infant. The new laws that add a second homicide charge when a pregnant women is killed were pushed through by those who want to make aboetion illegal. The homicide of a woman, pregnant or not or of a child or a man is already covered in the law. Is the life of a non pregnant woman worth less than that of a pregnant one? Also if you ever actually do take the time to read those laws they make a point of excluding abortion from them. These laws do not recognise the fetus as another person they simply give more protection to pregnant women then non pregnant women by adding stiffer penaties if the women murderd is pregnant. An abortion is justified when the woman tht the pregnancy is attached to does not want her body used against her will and when she meets state and federal criteria or when the woman and her husband or family upon finding that the fetus is damaged decide that they do not want bring a infant into the world simply to watch it suffer and die. The fact that youfind none of this relavent is simply your choice. That is why you would not choose and abortion. Others feel differently. PREGNANCY AND CHILDREN ARE NOT THE PUNISHMENT FOR HAVING SEX. SEX IS NOT CONSENT TO PREGNANCY OR BIRTH. Its hard to read your post at the end, but if I understand it correctly you view alll other women as selfish and greedy poor mothers except your self. Well poor you. It seems the one with the really big ego is the one condeming all others. What is it you want a gold star on your callendar? Someone to tell you you have actually made good choices and everyone else is not. You sound like a young woman that is having a hard time with your life and the choices you made. The thing is that everyone makes choices and then has to live with the consequences. Tearing down other women will not make the consequences of your own life choices either better or worse.

oopoopoop

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Posted: 02-23-08 11:52am


I can't believe someone could have so little empathy with other women that they could even ask that question. Why abort? Every woman who has aborted has her reason, and each one is different, and each one is valid. You had the choice to have yours -- good for you. I hope yours grow up to have more empathy (and better punctuation) than you do.

Tylanas

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Posted: 02-23-08 11:57am


Why abort? Oh you know... you're going to die if you don't. Or you don't have the money to raise the child, and kind of like overpopulated cats and dogs, you don't agree with putting another mouth into the system and forcing our government to feed it.

nightangel73

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Posted: 02-23-08 13:02pm

sistersister wrote:

PREGNANCY AND CHILDREN ARE NOT THE PUNISHMENT FOR HAVING SEX. SEX IS NOT CONSENT TO PREGNANCY OR BIRTH.

You are right pregnancy and children are not the punishment for having sex. It's only the CONSEQUENCE of having sex. Smile

sistersister

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Posted: 02-23-08 14:40pm


So every time you have sex you get pregnant? No sex has many functions one of which is pregnancy. You no more give permission to a pregnancy for having sex then you give permission for a heart attack having a traditional thanksgiving dinner. Both act serve other functions such as bonding both can have medical consequences and pregnancy like high colesterol that leads to heart attacks can be corrected. If pregnancy is the consequence of having sex and you insist that every pregnancy be carried to term and force the woman to have a child she does not want then you have turned that child into her punishment for having sex. My mother got pregnant with me she forced my father to marry her she did not get to finish school and her life has been unhappy and a disappointment. I was reminded daily what a huge sacrifice she made having me. As one of those former unwanted fetuses I can assure you she thought I was her punishment and her burden. As a former unwanted fetus I can also tell you I firmly believe that she would have been kinder to me if she had aborted, that my father may have got to have a normal life and my mother may not have ended up the bitter unhappy person she is. Of course I would never have been born but then I would not be aware of that so that does not matter. At any rate I speak from experience that a child can be made the punishment for having had sex. and often is.

oopoopoop

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Posted: 02-23-08 16:01pm


You have an abortion if you don't want to be pregnant. You have an abortion if you don't want a child. You have an abortion if you don't want THAT child. You have an abortion if you don't want a child NOW.

Tylanas

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Posted: 02-24-08 00:41am

nightangel73 wrote:

sistersister wrote:

PREGNANCY AND CHILDREN ARE NOT THE PUNISHMENT FOR HAVING SEX. SEX IS NOT CONSENT TO PREGNANCY OR BIRTH.

You are right pregnancy and children are not the punishment for having sex. It's only the CONSEQUENCE of having sex. Smile

Like sistersister said, "so every time you have sex you get pregnant?"

And even if you say "pregnancy is A consequence of having sex", abortion can be a solution.

Darkmoon

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Posted: 02-24-08 03:41am


Having a car accident is a possible consequence of driving but nobody is forcing the person at fault to donate a drop of blood to the person they run into or run over, are they? After all, the person at fault directly caused the person they ran into to need a blood transfusion so by the logic of "she spread her legs so she must share her body as a result", people who cause accidents and match the blood type or tissue type of those they harm should also be legally mandated to share their bodies. The thing is that nobody advocates mandatory sharing of one's body except in the case of women and fetuses. That is discrimination. The logic used is that by having sex a woman directly caused the creation of the fetus and thus its dependency on her organs so she should have no choice but to share them and risk permanent injury or death in the process. If that logic applies to women for having sex then it's only fair that the same logic be used for people who harm others-be it intentional or accidentally-and cause them to need the support of someone else's body to survive. The bodily rights of convicted criminals and corpses are respected more than the bodily rights of women. It's sick.

nightangel73

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Posted: 02-24-08 14:17pm

sistersister wrote:

So every time you have sex you get pregnant? No sex has many functions one of which is pregnancy. You no more give permission to a pregnancy for having sex then you give permission for a heart attack having a traditional thanksgiving dinner. Both act serve other functions such as bonding both can have medical consequences and pregnancy like high colesterol that leads to heart attacks can be corrected.

If pregnancy is the consequence of having sex and you insist that every pregnancy be carried to term and force the woman to have a child she does not want then you have turned that child into her punishment for having sex.

My mother got pregnant with me she forced my father to marry her she did not get to finish school and her life has been unhappy and a disappointment. I was reminded daily what a huge sacrifice she made having me. As one of those former unwanted fetuses I can assure you she thought I was her punishment and her burden. As a former unwanted fetus I can also tell you I firmly believe that she would have been kinder to me if she had aborted, that my father may have got to have a normal life and my mother may not have ended up the bitter unhappy person she is.

Of course I would never have been born but then I would not be aware of that so that does not matter.

At any rate I speak from experience that a child can be made the punishment for having had sex. and often is.

Interesting how people think their lives are going to be perfect if such and such. Like if life can be perfect. I'm sorry your mom had an unhappy life. I have to say that I have learned that in life you will go through difficult situations and we have two choices: be happy or be unhappy. You choose.

I'm also sorry to hear you are dissapointed your mom wasn't kind enough to abort you. We wouldn't have missed anything by your existance here wouldn't we?

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Posted: 02-24-08 14:53pm

Eiri wrote:

Like sistersister said, "so every time you have sex you get pregnant?"

Nightangel didn't say that. In the context of natural process of procreation, the assertion that pregnancy is the consequence of having sex does not mean every time you have sex you get pregnant.

It’s a simple logic. For instance, all women are human beings. But not all human beings are women. Therefore, all natural pregnancy are the consequence of having sex, but not all sex result in pregnancy.

Eiri wrote:

And even if you say "pregnancy is A consequence of having sex", abortion can be a solution.

Not if you believe that a prenatal life is a human being or a human being person (whatever definition you want to use).

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Posted: 02-24-08 14:58pm

Darkmoon wrote:

Having a car accident is a possible consequence of driving but nobody is forcing the person at fault to donate a drop of blood to the person they run into or run over, are they? After all, the person at fault directly caused the person they ran into to need a blood transfusion so by the logic of "she spread her legs so she must share her body as a result", people who cause accidents and match the blood type or tissue type of those they harm should also be legally mandated to share their bodies.

It’s a faulty analogy. The sacrificial provision from the mother to the unborn child is a biological event due to reproduction and not through a legal mandate due to car accident. Unless you can demonstrate that a car accident results in a natural biological event of one person connected to another person for sanguineous resources, let alone the reproductive genetic link, then such analogy is spurious.

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Posted: 02-24-08 14:59pm


I have said many times in here how bad my childhood was. I was the last of four children. My father was a alcoholic and we were very poor. I remember waking up in the winter with my grandfather’s wool coat over me (because he didn’t have any warm blankets) with snow on it because the plastic blew off my bedroom window and the snow blew in. We did not have a hot water heater and we had to heat our water on the stove to take baths. I could go on and on, but the bottom line is, it did not make me hate my father or my mother. I actually thank them for making me the person I am. I appreciate every little thing given to me and it usually looks like new years after I get it. Simply because I never had anything nice when I was growing up.. So you can go through life blaming everyone around you for a bad life, or you can learn from it and become a strong and better person for it. So when you say a lot of kids hate living or would rather have been aborted then to live in dreaded conditions. Here is one, as I am sure there are many more that doesn’t and is very thankful my mother did not decide that I would be just another burden to the family and aborted me. I appreciate life and I think everyone should have a chance at it.

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Posted: 02-24-08 15:35pm

Darkmoon wrote:

Abortion is a pregnancy choice. Adoption is a parenting choice.

Raising a born child is a parental choice. Giving a born child up for adoption is a parental choice. Killing a born child is a parental choice, which just happens to be illegal. But they are all "choices".

sistersister

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Posted: 02-24-08 18:39pm


NA No my you would not have missed anything by my absence if my mother had aborted me neither would I. I would never have existed so there would be no loss. Dol There are many "natural process"s. And as humans progress and are better able to correct the results of those processes there are means to treat them. An infection is anatual process wherein a pathogen gains access to someones body that can be treated by antibiotics and other medical interventions. A unwanted pregnancy can be treated by abortion eithr medical or sugical. The fact hat you choose to believe prenatal life is more than potential human life certianly no basis to deny that abortion can be the cure for an unwanted pregnancy. If I have a tumor growing in my uterus it will have a genetic link to me. if that tumor is on a ovary and results from a cancerous growth from one of my eggs then it has resulted in a biological event in my reproductive system. I have the right to correct both of these unwanted conditions just as I have the right to correct the presence of an unwanted pregnancy. Abortion is the cure for an unwanted pregnancy. Women are not forced to carry unwanted pregnancies that can be removed any more than they are forced to keep tumors growing or infections blooming in their bodies. "the sacrificial provision from the mother to the unborn child is a biological event due to reproduction..." Only if the woman is made to sacrifice by being forced to gestate to term aginst her will. It is not a biological event it is the forcing of others will on her to prevent her from aborting a unwanted pregnancy. So the sacrificial provision would be the sacrificing of the womans atonamy over her own body, the subjugation of her rights to the potential life by others. It would certianly be a legal mandate that caused the sacrifice. I'm not clear by sanguinous resources are you refering to the fact that the zef is dependent for what ever pretense of life it exhibits on the fact hat it functions becuase it is attached to and feeding off of the womans blood supply or or you suggesting that in the car accident someone who caused the accident is forced to donate blood to save the life of those tht were injured. Of course no one can be forced to be hooked up to and tranfuse another against their will. And no woman should ever be forced to have a zef feed off of her against her will. blonde I am very close to my 60th birthday. I actually have a very good life. What I said was my mother had a disapointing life is now a bitter unhappy woamn and in the process dragged my father down with her. The point I am making is that had my mother been able to abort me at least my father would have had a decent life my mother may have had better and I would never have know one way or another. Plers always claim to speak for the unborn especially those unwanted unborn, so what I am saying a s one of those former zefs of an unplanned and unwanted pregnancies I would have been neither better or worse if my mother had aborted me but my parents both would have been much better off. I was raised in a way that reminded me of my mothers "sacrifice" to bring me into the world. My mother threw her and my fathers lives away for one "mistake" on her part (if I believe the pl idea that if you have sex you must have the child ) I was tken care of and had my needs met. I do not "hate" my parents ( I feel very sorry for them). I am just not grateful to them for carrying to term a mistake. I would have never known one way or another if my mother had aborted (I can not repeat this enough) and becuase they were not able to my parents lives were at best disappointing to them. Yoda yelling at ones wife is a choice, not yelling at ones wife is a choice, belting ones wife is a choice which just happens to be illegal. They are all choices so what is your point? I would say that the couples that are choosing to abort a fetus with severe anomalies are making a parenting choice along with a pregnancy choice becuase after researching and consutations they have decided keeping the much wanted pregnancy would only ensure that the fetus would end up suffering and dying within hours of birth or as in the case of TaySachs a few short years of pain.

nightangel73

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Posted: 02-24-08 20:11pm

sistersister wrote:

NA

No my you would not have missed anything by my absence if my mother had aborted me neither would I. I would never have existed so there would be no loss.

Well with me if I wasn't born it would have being big loss to the world. I have helped so many. I have even created friendships without me being present. There is so much I want to do to make the lives of others better. When I die I want to people to say of the good I have done. I don't want to be remember as "I wished my mom had aborted me". What a sad life is that at 60 to say something like that. I guess you have not done any good with your life. Nothing that people would remember you for. If my mom had birth me with sacrifice oh boy then with more reason I would have make life the best of it and I would had made my mom proud.

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Posted: 02-24-08 21:12pm

fallingangel04 wrote:

for the life of me i would never kill my baby.

I could never kill my baby either. Sorry, but I don't think having an abortion is killing a baby.

fallingangel04 wrote:

i know people who want a baby so bad and they don't care that its not perfect the would love it no matter what, one of my friends has been pregnant 2 times but miscarries everytime, she would love to have a baby, with so many out there like her why kill a life.

My husband and I tried to get pregnant for over a year with no luck. We are facing the very real possibility that we could have a fertility problem and have a hard time conceiving. Adoption has always been a possibility. However, I do not expect other women who do not want children to donate their bodies temporarily to make me happy. That is very self-involved.

fallingangel04 wrote:

a person can homicide a pregnant woman and get charged for 2 counts of homicide, so how is an abortion justified.

Because it was done illegally.

fallingangel04 wrote:

anyone who has sex should be able to except full responsibility for it, stressed out or not, its an innocent gift from god, not a burden, sometimes with my 2 year old i feel like ripping my hair out sometimes, but trust me its well worth it

I can choose how and when I will accept responsibility for a pregnancy. Having an abortion doesn't mean I am not doing that. You just don't agree with my method of taking responsibility for the situation. Babies aren't gifts from God, you need a reality check. Unless every conception was immaculate. You think it is worth it to be a parent, but there are many people who do not feel that way. Not every wants to be a parent and many people are not comfortable with having their biological child raised by another family. It's understandable.

fallingangel04 wrote:

and if money is your excuse for an abortion, the government is there to help you, the only babies out there that are starving in this country are ones who have mothers that don't even try, forget about your existence for a sec, you say you can't afford it, well get a job, and stop wasting money on new clothes and all the unneeded accessories in your life and focus only on the life that you are carrying that you ended up with cause apparently having sex was something you had to do right???

First of all, it's kind of rude to imply that I need to excuse myself because I want an abortion. I don't.

Secondly, do you really think that buying less clothing is going to make up for what it costs to care for a child? I don't think so. Your suggestion to stop buying clothes is ludicrous. Pregnant women HAVE to buy new clothes, because they can't fit into their old ones.

Third, you don't have a baby and think "Oh, the government will take care of me!" because that's very lazy and naive. I personally have a problem with someone who has a baby just because they know my tax dollars are there to save them. People who can't afford babies shouldn't be having them.

fallingangel04 wrote:

now if the pregnancy is ectopic, those babies don't survive and kill the mother, i can understand that one, but if your not having any life threatening complications, honestly tell me, why abort?

There are a lot of reasons why someone would abort.

-They have an addiction.
-They are homeless.
-They were raped.
-They don't want children.
-Their SO left them alone.
-Someone poked a hole in the condom.

Before I was living with my husband, I would have aborted any pregnancy. Because it wasn't the right time in my life and I wasn't willing to make it the right time. That is my choice.

Why abort?