Q. Can the fetus feel pain?
A. Yes by 8 weeks old the fetus can feel
pain
by 8 weeks? Show me!
By this age the neuro-anatomic structures
are present. What is needed is
(1) a sensory nerve to feel the pain and
send a message to
(2) the thalamus, a part of the base of
the brain, and
(3) motor nerves that send a message to
that area.
These are present at 8 weeks. The pain
impulse goes to the thalamus. It sends a
signal down the motor nerves to pull away
from the hurt.
Give me an example!
Try sticking an infant with a pin and you
know what happens. She opens her mouth to
cry and also pulls away.
Try sticking an 8 week old human fetus in
the palm of his hand. He opens his mouth
and pulls his hand away.
A more technical description would add
that changes in heart rate and fetal
movement also suggest that intrauterine
manipulations are painful to the fetus.
Volman & pearson, "what the fetus
feels," british med. Journal, jan. 26,
1980, pp. 233-234.
O.K., that is activity that can be
observed, but is there other evidence of
pain? After all, the fetal baby
can’t tell us he hurts.
Pain can be detected when nociceptors
(pain receptors) discharge electrical
impulses to the spinal cord and brain.
These fire impulses outward, telling the
muscles and body to react. These can be
measured. Mountcastle, medical
physiology, st. Louis: c.V. Mosby, pp.
391-427 "lip tactile response may be
evoked by the end of the 7th week. At 11
weeks, the face and all parts of the upper
and lower extremities are sensitive to
touch. By 13 1/2 to 14 weeks, the entire
body surface, except for the back and the
top of the head, are sensitive to pain."
s. Reinis & j. Goldman, the
development of the brain c. Thomas pub.,
1980
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samie
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Apr 2004 Posts: 665
Give Me More Proof Posted: 05-21-04 22:03pm
In 1964 president reagan said: "when the
lives of the unborn are snuffed out, they
often feel pain, pain that is long and
agonizing." president ronald reagan to
national religious broadcasters, new york
times, jan. 31, 1984
this provoked a public reaction from
pro-abortion circles and a response from
an auspicious group of professors,
including pain specialists and two past
presidents of the american college of
obstetrics and gynecology.
They strongly backed mr. Reagan and
produced substantial documentation.
Excerpts of their letter (2/13/84) to him
included:
"real time ultrasonography, fetoscopy,
study of the fetal ekg (electrocardiogram)
and fetal eeg (electroencephalogram) have
demonstrated the remarkable responsiveness
of the human fetus to pain, touch, and
sound. That the fetus responds to changes
in light intensity within the womb, to
heat, to cold, and to taste (by altering
the chemical nature of the fluid swallowed
by the fetus) has been exquisitely
documented in the pioneering work of the
late sir william lily — the father
of fetology."
we state categorically that no finding of
modern fetology invalidates the remarkable
conclusion drawn after a lifetime of
research by the late professor arnold
gesell of yale university. In the
embryology of behavior: the beginnings of
the human mind (1945, harper bros.), Dr.
Gesell wrote, "and so by the close of the
first trimester the fetus is a sentient,
moving being. We need not speculate as
to the nature of his psychic attributes,
but we may assert that the organization of
his psychosomatic self is well under
way."
mr. President, in drawing attention to
the capability of the human fetus to feel
pain, you stand on firmly established
ground. Willke, j & b, abortion:
questions & answers, hayes, 1991,
chpt. 10
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samie
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Apr 2004 Posts: 665
Pain? What of Just Comfort? Posted: 05-21-04 22:03pm
"one of the most uncomfortable ledges that
the unborn can encounter is his
mother’s backbone. If he happens to
be lying so that his own backbone is
across hers [when the mother lies on her
back], the unborn will wiggle around until
he can get away from this highly
disagreeable position." m. Liley & b.
Day, modern motherhood, random house,
1969, p. 42
but isn’t pain mostly
psychological?
There is also organic, or physiological
pain which elicits a neurological response
to pain. P. Lubeskind, "psychology &
physiology of pain," amer. Review
psychology, vol. 28, 1977, p. 42
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samie
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Apr 2004 Posts: 665
How About During An Abortion? Posted: 05-21-04 22:04pm
This really hit the fan during the 1996
debate in the u.S. Congress over a law to
ban partial birth abortions.
Pro-abortionists had claimed that the
anaesthetic had already killed the fetal
baby. Top officials of the u.S.
Society for obstetric anaesthesia &
perinatology vigorously denied this
explaining that usual anaesthesia did not
harm the baby. D. Gianelli,
anaesthesiologists question claims in
abortion debate, am. Med. News, jan. 1,
’96
this brought the issue of fetal pain into
the news, and testimony was given to the
subcommittee on the constitution of the
u.S. House of representatives.
"the fetus within this time frame of
gestation, 20 weeks and beyond, is fully
capable of experiencing pain. Without
doubt a partial birth abortion is a
dreadfully painful experience for any
infant. R. White, dir. Neurosurgery
& brain research, case western univ.
Also, "far from being less able to feel
pain, such premature newborns may be more
sensitive to pain"...That babies under 30
weeks have a "newly established pain
system that is raw and unmodified at this
tender age." p. Ranalli, neuro. Dept.,
univ. Of toronto
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samie
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Apr 2004 Posts: 665
Give Me More Research Data Posted: 05-21-04 22:05pm
Data in the british medical journal,
lancet, gave solid confirmation of such
pain. It is known that the fetal
umbilical cord has no pain receptors such
as the rest of the fetal body.
Accordingly, they tested fetal hormone
stress response comparing puncturing of
the abdomen and of the cord.
They observed "the fetus reacts to
intrahepatic (liver) needling with
vigorous body and breathing movements, but
not to cord needling. The levels of these
hormones did not vary with fetal age." m.
Fisk, et al., fetal plasma cortisol and
b-endorphin response to intrauterine
needling, lancet, vol. 344, july 9, 1994,
pg. 77
another excellent british study commented
on this:
"it cannot be comfortable for the fetus to
have a scalp electrode implanted on his
skin, to have blood taken from the scalp
or to suffer the skull compression that
may occur even with spontaneous delivery.
It is hardly surprising that infants
delivered by difficult forceps extraction
act as if they have a severe headache."
valman & pearson, "what the fetus
feels," british med. Jour., jan. 26,
1980
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oopoopoop
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 1209 Location: ,
Thanks: 34
Thanked:2
Posted: 05-21-04 22:24pm
Causing pain is, unfortunately, not
regarded as immoral in our society -- or
do you only mean for humans?
Banning animal experimentation should be
the first priority.
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samie
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Apr 2004 Posts: 665
Posted: 05-24-04 18:09pm
Surely banning experiments and pain on
human beings should be banned first – just
goes to show how bizarre society is….
Protect the fox, save the whales - health
question the babies!
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