I have a respect for others to have their
own opinions and feelings, and I can't see
where you would get the opposite
impression. My comments - perhaps a
little outrageous - about not liking
children were in response to the goo being
spouted about how they are the most
important thing.
This is not the child-rearing or pregnancy
forum. It is about abortion. Why should
you need to love children to post here?
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purple333
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 1420 Location: Sydney
Posted: 06-14-04 10:55am
I don't think you have to actually love
kids to post here but I do think you
should respect them & their parents in
order to have understanding &
compassion & empathy all of which are
needed in order to be able to speak to
this topic. I really doubt your ability
to understand the nuances & so doubt
your ability to participate
appropriately.
Sorry it's 2am here & this post may
not be as clear as i'd like.
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oopoopoop
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 1263 Location: ,
Thanks: 46
Thanked:2
Posted: 06-14-04 11:55am
I rather think that those who post here
should have some respect for and empathy
with those who don't like children, and
for those who are child-free by choice. I
doubt that those who lead child-centred
lifestyles can understand fully the
nuances of feeling about this subject.
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Guy2004
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 17 Location: New Jersey
Posted: 06-14-04 12:43pm
I don't care what people think about
wanting or not wanting children.
Or liking or hating kids in planes.
But I really think that women who go
through an entire life without having at
least one child are "incomplete".
I think giving childbirth is a biological
function that makes a woman complete and
whole.
As for these women not wanting to have
kids, I think it makes perfect sense.
If women like poopoo were to become
mothers, there would be a lot more
instances of child abuse. You ever hear
of those groups of parents that come and
console each other after having killed
their kids in their anger by shaking them
too hard when they cried? Well these type
of women would be in that group if they
had kids and had no patience and lost
their cool one day.
As for abortion, I am against it unless
its because of incest or rape.
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JanetBee
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Posts: 332
Posted: 06-14-04 12:54pm
"a biological function that makes women
complete and whole"???????
Thank you, I feel complete and whole
without having had children. We are not
animals, our function in life is not to
breed and make babies because men think it
makes us more useful. Just because
couldn't have children does not make me
any less a woman, it just doesn't make me
a mother.
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purple333
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 1420 Location: Sydney
Posted: 06-14-04 14:05pm
I was whole & complete before I had
children & remain so because I am not
because of my kids, my miscarriages or the
son whose life I terminated.
Men however can not understand this as
they can't be complete without having
"used" a woman. Hence the disgusting,
immature, gross etc post by
guy2004 - another gordon drivelbottom.
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jessechaseme
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Posts: 232
Posted: 06-14-04 15:20pm
And what reason would a man have to
comment on this topic?
Amen, I was whole when I came into this
world... I will be whole when I leave it.
It's interesting to see how many people
get so offended when you state "i will not
be having children"... It makes me wonder
how many women regret having kids, but now
have to stand by their decision tooth and
nail. Not saying that's the case for all
women... But their is a noticeable anger
towards those of us who don't bread...
Odd?
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2ferano
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Dec 2003 Posts: 3717
Posted: 06-14-04 15:38pm
Purple, my comment was not to you.
But, thanks for clarifying anyway!
It is men like guy who make the uneducated
of the world feel that they have to have
children to be "complete" well, guy, I
guess you will never be complete as I
don't see a watermelon coming out of your
vagina anytime soon. Grow up. You are
a sexist pig. And saying that poo would
be the type to shake her child to death?
That is just sick. I am sure you are
perfect and if you were a woman you would
breed simply because it is your "job."
well, good for you, that just shows that
you have no willpower or personality of
your own.
Let me guess, overweight, hairy,
unemployed, beer drinking football
watcher? Knocks up the wife because it
is what is suppose to be done and then
pays no attention to children at all,
because it is not "your" job.
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Guy2004
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 17 Location: New Jersey
Posted: 06-14-04 19:57pm
Hey its not me saying this. Its what
society feels.
Take three women all of the same age (say
55). One is a spinster that never
married and lives by herself in a dreary
apartment, one got married but never had
children and lives quietly alone with her
husband. The third one is celebrating
thanksgiving and christamas with her two
handsome sons and two gorgeous daughters
all married and with their own beautiful
children.
You tell me who is more complete. I am
just telling you how society would view
this not from my personal angle.
For those women who don't or wont have
kids, well nobody will miss anything if
they don't. But how will you feel when
its all said and done?
I am just giving you my thoughts. No need
to fight me or call me names. I can't
please everyone and everyone will not
agree with me.
Sorry if this has nothing to do with
abortion, but I am just responding here to
what the others have said.
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princess529_98
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jan 2004 Posts: 101 Location: Ohio
Posted: 06-14-04 22:28pm
I can understand some of what you are
saying guy. I have a aunt and uncle who
never had kids love kids just never wanted
any of there own. When my uncle passed
away she had no one she had all of us
neices and nephews but that was it. She
often said if she could have gone back she
would have changed things. I have a
brother who never wanted kids and we cant
all help but feel sorry for him on
holidays when we are all together and when
its time to go home we take our families
and we leave and he leaves alone he goes
home and he spends the rest of the night
by himself while we are at home enjoying
and laughing with our family. But thats
the choice he made. Maybe we feel sorry
for him for nothing maybe he doesnt care
hes alone maybe he is sitting there
thinking sheesh I am in my quiet house
enjoying a tv show while there all at home
with kids. Who knows. Everyone is
different parenthood isnt for everyone.
Some chose to have families some dont.
Theres no reason to attack anyone for the
way they feel or what they want in life.
But the ones that dont want children need
to respect the ones that do want children
or the ones that already have children and
vice versa..The one thing I have seen from
the last several posts is its ok for one
to say something but when another says
something that is basically the same thing
its not ok..
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Guy2004
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 17 Location: New Jersey
Posted: 06-14-04 22:50pm
Princess, I hope you don't think I was
attacking anyone...Just expressing my
views. And I don't hold anything against
those who don't want kids. I was just
telling everyone what I feel about society
these days.
I know a couple who have not had a kid for
10 years of marriage. Something
biological because they want nothing more
than to have one.
Also, a lot of people want a child to
carry on the name if nothing else.
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JanetBee
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Posts: 332
Posted: 06-15-04 12:23pm
Well, I know a lot of people who are old
and their kids can't be bothered to visit
them, or live in another countryso they
never see them anyway. And I have friends
who didn't have kids, and have very active
social lives. And I know someone who had
one son that died of cancer when he was a
teenager. And my uncle has an adopted son
who is 17 and a drug addict who steals
from them. And yes I know people who have
kids and are very happy families. Someone
said having kids is selfish, well I think
that if you are having them because you
want to share the joy and experience of
the world with them that isn't selfish,
but if you have them so you won't be
lonely when you are old or so that you can
pass on your family name or your genes
that is selfish.
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Sinsaint
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 May 2004 Posts: 90
Posted: 06-15-04 13:27pm
Quote:
as for these
women not wanting to have kids, I think it
makes perfect sense.
If women like poopoo were to become
mothers, there would be a lot more
instances of child abuse. You ever hear
of those groups of parents that come and
console each other after having killed
their kids in their anger by shaking them
too hard when they cried? Well these type
of women would be in that group if they
had kids and had no patience and lost
their cool one
day.
wow. So any woman who says she doesn't
want kids is bound to be abusive if she
becomes a mother. I hope stupidity isn't
passed through the genes. I used to say I
never wanted a child. I now have three
and they are my life. I would never,
ever harm any of them. Child abuse
stems from people not knowing how to cope
with frustrating situations and this, my
friend, could happen to anyone. I
personally believe child abuse stems, at
least in part, from people believing you
cannot let children cry. People will jump
through hoops trying to get a baby to stop
crying. Frustration builds to the point
where people snap. They want that child
to just stop crying. People need to
understand that babies cry and it's
perfectly okay. If everything is tried
but the baby continues to cry, just walk
out of the room or take the child to their
crib and allow them to cry there. People
need to understand that a crying baby is
not a reflection of their parenting skills
and it is acceptable to walk away. And I
don't care who you are, even the best
parents in the world can get frustrated.
I wanted my children but I still have bad
days. Doesn't mean i'm a bad parent. And
just because a woman doesn't want children
doesn't mean she is destined to be a bad
parent.
And just to be clear (because I don't see
the debate value in your comments) are you
saying abortion should be illegal because
a child makes a woman whole?
|
Guy2004
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 17 Location: New Jersey
Posted: 06-15-04 15:35pm
"wow. So any woman who says she doesn't
want kids is bound to be abusive if she
becomes a mother. "
did I say that everyone who does not want
kids is going to be abusive?
I said it because she was talking about
throwing a child out of an airplane.
Anyone who hates children so much is much
more likely to be abusive. Thats all I
said.
As for your abortion comment, I did not
relate the two.
I gave my views on abortion earlier. I
said I would allow abortion in case of
incest or rape. No other reason.
|
JanetBee
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Posts: 332
Posted: 06-15-04 16:48pm
First, I agree it's a good thing for
everybody that poopoo didn't have any
children, but I don't know on what basis
you are saying that she would be more
likely to be abusive, I think most
children who are abused were probably
wanted by their parents and there is no
relationship, and maybe she would have
been a good mother anyway because she
would have tried to bring up children to
be respectful, not spoiled the way most
kids who scream and have tantrums are.
But second, I don't really understand this
"except rape or incest" thing. On what
basis do you (or anyone) think that those
exceptions are okay? For example, if a
brother and sister have sex voluntarily
and she gets pregnant, why would it be
okay for her to have an abortion? And
although I feel that rape is a good
reason, because it could be horrible and
demeaning for a woman to be carrying a
rapists's baby, that is no more horrible
than a lot of other reasons that some
women might have.
|
princess529_98
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jan 2004 Posts: 101 Location: Ohio
Guy Posted: 06-15-04 17:06pm
When I wrote that post and said about
attacking people who believe in certain
things I wasnt pointing my finger just at
you but at all of us. There are ones on
here who get upset because someone
questions there beliefs or says something
negative to them that they dont like. But
there the same ones who sit here and make
stupid comments and do the same thing. It
never stops..You made a comment close to
something someone else had said and right
away your jumped on by some while the
other person was jumped on too but not by
the ones that jumped on you. Thats why I
said before whats good for one isnt always
good for another.. Its a shame but it
looks to be like thats the way it is
here..
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Guy2004
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 17 Location: New Jersey
Hey Princess... Posted: 06-15-04 18:28pm
My last response was not directed at you
but at the person just before me.
I agreed with most of what you posted, so
no problem with that at all.
If a brother and sister have consensual
sex and the girl wants to abort then I
think it should be allowed because its
unethical for siblings to have a child.
Also for biological reasons which I am not
an expert at so cannot provide any
thoughts on that.
When I talked about incest I was thinking
more in terms of aunt/nephew or
uncle/niece. Never thought about
brother/sister but I guess its disgusting
either way.
As for poopoo having children. Well janet
you may be right. Maybe she will be a
good parent and discipline her children
(like no other!) but I doubt it very much.
I think people like that would be better
off nurturing their pets rather than
taking a chance endangering a human
life....
|
jessechaseme
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Posts: 232
Posted: 06-15-04 20:53pm
Guy, I think you need to consider how many
truly awful parents exist in this world.
These parents are women and men who
couldn't wait to have children of their
own, but later find out raising kids isn't
just about nap time and looking cute in a
stroller. Those are the people that
should have stuck with pets. I think it's
very mature of poo to not have children.
She understands what it truly takes to
have a kid, and has been honest about not
wanting one. Way to go. I agree with
her. I'd rather be traveling around the
world, meeting people, and helping
humanity in other ways when i’m 50. Hey,
perhaps I could take care of kids the rest
of the world has forgotten about. I
don't need my own children to validate my
life. Nor do I need them to make my
"norman rockwell christmas" seem more
appealing. Apparently you do. That's
great. Bread away. But don't knock the
people who don't follow your stupid ideas.
Let's talk child abuse, shall we? The
founding cause of child abuse has more to
do with socio-economical status, rather
than weather or not someone wanted to have
a child. Your correlation about poo not
wanting children and abuse made little
sense. Work harder at connecting those
dots when you're making fallacies...
We're more likely to buy them when you do.
Love,
jesse
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2ferano
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Dec 2003 Posts: 3717
Guy Posted: 06-16-04 01:31am
Funny, you jump right in here, call people
abusive simply because they do not want
children, say that a woman cannot be whole
unless they have a child and blah blah.
Then you get all upset about the responses
that you receive.
Well, too bad.
Poo made that comment about the airplane
and everyone got all upset. Anyone who
has ever read any of poos posts knows that
she is a very intelligent person and was
not saying that she really wanted to throw
the child out of the plane.
None of you can honestly say that you have
never been in a situation where someone
has a child near you (in public) and is
just letting them scream, cry, kick, run
around and act like freaking animals. It
is annoying. There have been times when
I was tempted to turn around and smack
that child. Not to beat or abuse them,
but to discipline them since their parents
obviously do not know how.
Does that mean that if I had children I
would abuse and ultimately kill them?
No. And if you honestly think that then
you do not have a brain in your head.
If you were saying what "society" thinks
then you should have said that. You
said, "i feel that....." sorry we are not
mind readers who read what you say, but
know that you meant something completely
different.
A lot of this thread has been about women
having children, or feeling that they have
to have children because of what society
thinks and how that is wrong. That part
had already been covered anyway.
I know and understand that everyone has
different values and opinions and that is
just fine. I do not expect everyone to
agree with me, but I will not tolerate a
man coming into this forum and saying that
I cannot be whole if I never have a child.
And that if poo did have a child she
would abuse it. That is just an
ignorant, uneducated and insulting
response.
A lot (if not most) abusive parents wanted
children. Someone who knows and
understands that they do not want children
usually use extreme measures to make sure
that they do not get pregnant. And if
for some reason they did, they would be
more opt to give that child up for
adoption. The abusive people sometimes
get pregnant and have children on purpose
so that they have someone to enslave and
abuse. It is a power trip for them.
So anyway, you are entitled to your
opinions. If you really did not mean
what you said in your first post then I
will let it go and not comment on it
again. But if you did mean it then I
have no time for you.
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Guy2004
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 17 Location: New Jersey
Posted: 06-16-04 14:34pm
I think I am going to cool it here for a
bit.
These three women seem to be pretty
closely knit and no matter what I say
they will jump at it and scrutinize every
single word.
post by
guy2004 - another gordon drivelbottom.