A couple of years ago I suffered from
acute depression and was put in a mental
hospital - since then I have taken myself
of meds and manage to give a good
impression of a sane person. But I have
always had bouts of depression lasting a
few days at a time however recently they
are lasting longer and being more acute.
I don't know what to do - I don't want to
go back on meds and the psychological
'help' I got was rubbish (in my humble
opinion)
things are getting out of control again
and I am feeling lost.
Any suggestions of how to stop this
getting worse?
|
qt3
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 264
Re: It's Happening Again Posted: 07-02-04 15:03pm
imp
wrote:
a couple of years ago I
suffered from acute depression and was put
in a mental hospital - since then I have
taken myself of meds and manage to give a
good impression of a sane person. But I
have always had bouts of depression
lasting a few days at a time however
recently they are lasting longer and being
more acute. I don't know what to do - I
don't want to go back on meds and the
psychological 'help' I got was rubbish (in
my humble opinion)
things are getting out of control again
and I am feeling lost.
Any suggestions of how to stop this
getting worse?
the answer for me was cognitive behavioral
therapy (cbt). I was on meds for many
years before I found cbt and it cured me
and got me off meds in a remarkably short
period of time. Cbt is not like other
talk therapy. A good cbt therapist does
not care much about your past or why you
think you feel the way you do etc. A good
cbt therapist knows they cannot change
what's already happened to you but they
can help you change how you deal with what
happens in your life from here on out.
It's all about using the tools to learn to
think more clearly and accurately about
things and once you do your anxiety, panic
and depression will miraculously begin to
lift before your eyes. My favorite
starter book on cbt is "been there, done
that? Do this! By sam obitz
(www.Tao3.Com) based on what I have seen
with the people I know who used cbt the
more dedicated you are to the tools the
faster and deeper the recovery regardless
of how bad their anxiety was when they got
started.
Hope this is helpful
q
|
imp
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 2
Posted: 07-02-04 18:42pm
Thanks for the reply - I tried cbt just
after I got out of hospital but it didn't
seem to work - I think I was too ill if
that makes any sense - I couldn't
understand how basically thinking 'it
might never happen' would help me when it
clearly had already happend - I also has a
psychologist who was training and also use
to not turn up when I really needed to
talk to her - so I am a bit sceptical of
cbt now -
what I don't get is how can you pretend
the past hasn't happend when it is usually
the past that is making you ill. I think
i'm missing the point of cbt.
Feeling ok now but that is the problem
really I know that this will last for a
couple of days and then depression will
come back and hit me like a brick wall -
it's a waiting game and i'm tired of this,
tired of the ups and downs and having no
control.
Again, thanks for the reply.
|
Haley
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Feb 2004 Posts: 122
Posted: 07-08-04 06:48am
I can understand why you would be
skeptical of cbt because it does sound
like the help you got was rubbish. It has
nothing to do with pretending the past
didn't happen. Cbt teaches you coping
skills that help you deal from this day
forward and has saved my life and gotten
ridden of my panic attacks to. It is
difficult to get going on and you really
have to do the exercises everyday to get
them to work but the results are priceless
if you do in my humble opinion I love the obitz
book and mastery of your anxiety and
panic-third edition by michelle craske and
david barlow. They were the two books we
used in my group.
|
mike9856746
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 67 Location: ,
Posted: 07-21-04 01:35am
Well, I know it sounds all "new age" but
i'm a very critical person, and from
personal experience I can say that yoga
will help with your depression and
physical health a lot. Also, though i'm
not signing up till september,from what
i've studied tai chi sounds like an
excellent form for clearing the fog in
your mind and seeing life more clearly and
feeling overal better.
|
KittyKat
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Nov 2003 Posts: 39
Posted: 07-21-04 19:30pm
Would it really be so bad to go back on
the med's? Sometimes people need help,
and you know what? It's ok to ask for
and accept help. Take the medications
and see how you do. Why get back to that
black bottomless pit if you don't have to?
People with depression usually can't
just wish themselves well, I know, I have
tried for years. Give the med's another
chance. Perhaps a different therapist
might be more helpful to you.
Xoxo
kitty
|
purple333
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 1420 Location: Sydney
Alternatives!! Posted: 07-22-04 07:54am
Please check out ces machines & also
sound & light machines (alpha-stim.Com
or dynamind.Com) these machines have
almost stopped my migraines & instead
of feeling constantly suicidal - well that
feeling has gone too!!
I still take some meds but these are not
for depression - I would take meds for
depression again if my situation altered
& I needed them for a time but I think
all I need now is these 2 machines - after
35 or so years of searching.
|
jurplesman
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Posts: 139 Location: Sydney Australia
Depression And Hypoglycemia Posted: 07-24-04 22:28pm
Dear imp,
the reason why rcbt may not work is that
depression is due to some underlying
metabolic disorder that does not respond
to talk therapy.
The best advice that I can give is to test
yourself for hypoglycemia with the nbi at
our web site.
Please search our web site for "nbi".
This is paper-and-pencil test consisting
of 50 questions. If you score high you
are likely to be hypoglycemic. You can
have this confirmed by a doctor with a
special glucose tolerance test for
hypoglycemia (gtth), also described at our
web site. Most doctors are not yet
familiar with this test.
Hypoglycemia, is unfortunately a misnomer,
as it means low blood sugar concentration,
whereas in fact we are dealing with
unstable blood sugar levels, with peaks
and falls of glucose in the blood. This
is due to insulin resistance, where the
body responds poorly to insulin, that is
supposed to push glucose across membranes
of cells, including brain cells. Glucose
is the source of energy to the brain, and
if there is an unstable supply of glucose
to the brain, then the brain cannot
operate properly. With an unstable
source of energy to the brain we will
experience ‘psychological’ symptoms, that
are often mistaken for causes of mental
illness.
Hypoglycemia can be treated without
recourse to drugs by adopting the
hypoglycemic diet, which is high protein,
low carbohydrates diet consumed in
frequent small snacks accompanied with
vitamins and minerals. It is similar to
the diabetic diet.
Glucose is the source of energy the brain
uses, and is broken down by about 12
biochemical reactions to become energy
(atp). Anywhere along this biochemical
pathway there may be a blockage, for
various reasons, the major one being a
deficiency of a coenzyme such as zinc or
chromium, that can be obtained from food.
Thus a gtth may show normal blood sugar
levels, but still produce signs similar to
hypoglycemic symptoms, such as depression
and anxiety attacks.
High insulin production, called
hyperinsulinism, in an attempt to overcome
insulin resistance, may cause sudden falls
in blood sugar. The brain will than send
a message to the adrenal gland to secrete
massive doses of adrenaline to raise these
levels again and to feed the brain again.
But adrenaline is also a stress hormone,
that is seen as being responsible for the
various symptoms of hypoglycemia,
including depression.
In most cases the hypoglycemic diet will
supply body with all the precursors for it
to produce the right amounts of
neurotransmitters, enzymes and coenzymes.
This will eliminate the physical causes
of depression, but not necessarily the
psychological factors. It is always good
to stick and try out psychotherapy again,
provided you are on a hypoglycemic diet.
Depression, being a physical illness of
long standing, maybe dating back to
childhood, naturally affects your
personality and your social skills. Poor
social skills may produce stressful social
situations that can in turn produce stress
hormones. These may interfere with the
synthesis of serotonin and other
beneficial neuro chemicals. Here we
could have a vicious circle.
Please adopt the hypoglycemic diet and
then return to psychotherapy.
Please discuss this with your doctor or
counsellor.
Most of the above has been explained at
our web site.
The last post whilst very close to
advertising is also an informative &
useful site, so could be worth checking
out.
|
jurplesman
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Posts: 139 Location: Sydney Australia
Advertising Posted: 07-25-04 21:28pm
"the last post whilst very close to
advertising is also an informative &
useful site, so could be worth checking
out."
it may sound like advertising and if so,
it would be commercial activity with
something to sell and make a profit on
it.
You need to demonstrate what profits are
being made and how.
Our hypoglycemic health association is a
charitable educational association
informing professionals, and members of
the public of a different form of
treatment not very well known among the
general public. It is an treatment
approach to mental illness, supported by
independent research findings, and forms
an alternative or complementary modality
to the narrow drug and/or psychotherapy
modality prevalent today. Our members
have been or are in the same boat as many
readers here in this forum.
It is an approach that requires direct
involvement and understanding by the
patient an allows him/her to participate
in treatment with a professional, placing
more control in the hands of the
patient.
Please note that our web site is an
educational web site and nothing more or
less.
If you are going to be pedantic please
also be accurate your web site lists books
written by yourself & other committee
members (which I suggest that people might
be more likely to purchase having been to
the site - which I did before posting my
last post I might add) & it also
enables people to join the association
(for $20) & so forth. As a committee
member & author etc you have a
personal interest & could benefit from
people going to the site.
None of which did I state earlier, I
merely acknowledged that it was & is
close to advertising - something which is
not allowed on ehealth & also
something which many people find most
annoying & do complain about - so I
was acknowledging what might be said ,
denying it & saying that
the site was informative & useful!!
hmmmm let me see
in my world which as I did the same job as
you in the same country & city!!
Should be the same world as yours means
that I think people could benefit from
checking it out & not worry about any
issues re advertising.
You however seem intent on taking offense
- I wonder why
|
jurplesman
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Posts: 139 Location: Sydney Australia
Posted: 07-26-04 22:07pm
I wondered whether your promotion of the
‘ces machine’ falls in the same
category.
I don't know whether you have any
experience in publishing books. I wrote
the book "getting off the hook" in 1986 on
the topic of treatment for drug addiction.
Commercial publishers will tell you that
books on mental illness and drug addiction
etc. Are not very profitable. But any
book on recipes and cooking sell like hot
cakes,(excuse the pun). So I published my
book at my own expense, and I can tell you
I got just even. Besides I did not
publish it for commercial reasons, I was
more interested helping people overcome
their drug addiction by a self-help book.
I have still a few copies left and I am
always willing to donate a book to any
library any where in the world free of
charge. Besides most of it is on the web
site. My book is available at most
libraries in australia. If I sell any
book, any profit goes to the association.
Any profit from dr george samra’s books
also goes to the association. I can
understand that in this world of profits
profits profits, it is difficult to
believe that there are still samaritans
around. But in the world of grass root
organisations - voluntary organisations
such as ours and many others - there still
are samaritans, and I suggest that if you
want to participate in our society, you
should join any voluntary organisations to
preserve your faith in humanity and to
keep in touch of what civilization is all
about.
You might wonder what my real motivation
is in getting involved with alternative
medicine. I was the victim of the
psychiatric, and psychological profession,
when I fell prey to mental illness myself
and was drugged to the eye balls for about
ten years. I dragged myself out of this
hole, by going to the university and study
psychology (whilst a druggie) - in which I
believed very much at the time - and then
became a counsellor myself. Working in
prisons, I discovered that all the mental
patients are now in prisons. 75% of
prisoners are drug addicts or people with
a ‘personality disorder’, another 10% are
simply people with a psychiatric illness.
There are very few professional criminals
in jail. The real crazy people are on the
outside.
As to charging a fee of $20 for joining
our association, again you don't seem o
have experience in participating in a
registered non-profit charitable
association. The government is watching
over us like a hawk to make sure that we
are not a commercial organisation. For
instance, we have to declare our raffles.
In fact, the association has great
financial problems, because of the cost of
publishing a newsletters, hiring a
conference room for public lectures given
by doctors - who also donate their free
time - and sending out newsletters to
doctors (free of charge). Because of
financial constraints we had to reduce our
public meetings from four to three per
year. Two years ago we decided to wind up
the association for financial reasons,
when we were saved by a big donation from
an unknown donor ( I believe it was a
company) and some doctors also have
donated. (donations to charitable
associations are tax-deductible). Again
our web site is helped by voluntary work
by our web mistress.
As an educational organisation the
information about alternative treatment
for mental illness, was all very new in
the 1970’s. Our members who are all
sufferers of the hypoglycemic syndrome -
an important factor in most degenerative
diseases as well mental illness - banded
together with the express aim of educating
professionals and patients on this aspect
of ill health. Nowadays this message has
become 'mainstream' in australia, and we
now hear of many patients being diagnosed
'hypoglycemic' by all sorts of doctors.
Because clinical nutritional is not a cash
cow for doctors, there is still much
resistance.
With the advent of the internet, most of
the information on alternative treatments
are on the internet, and hence people can
get the information from that medium.
Potentially people can treat themselves
without the assistance of any
professional. This is not what I would
recommend, because clinical nutrition is
far more complex that meets the eye.
The new problem is that because so many
patients are now visiting “alternative and
complementary” doctors - 57% by the latest
survey (bensoussan) - that medical
associations in cohort with the powerful
world-wide pharmaceutical corporation have
started a campaign to prosecute any doctor
who practises ‘unproven and unconventional
medicine’ and threaten them with
deregistration. Some health practitioners
are now being sued in australia. Google
search “jenny bourke”
about two years ago one company - pan
pharmaceuticals - producing nutritional
supplements was closed down by the
government - by the tga, similar to the us
fda.
in europe you cannot buy some nutritional
supplements, except with doctor’s
prescription. These deals are made at the
who by governments under free trade
agreements, where health benefits are
being traded off for other commercial
interest. Just recently australia has
signed a ‘free trade agreement’ with the
usa, and guess what; pharmaceutical prices
have to be increased under that deal.
This at a time when the conventional
health system - hospitals, medical costs
etc - are collapsing around you.
People should also be educated on the
economics and politics of drug
manufacturing to find out what motivates
the elites in medical health industry.
i do not want to become involved with the
politics and economics of mental health.
I simply believe that people with mental
illness can educate themselves out of
their illness with the help of appropriate
health care practitioners. There are a
lot of doctors around who have embraced a
more modern psychotherapeutic model, but
they may be difficult to find. It is very
difficult to get off drugs, either as a
patient of doctor.
|
purple333
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 1420 Location: Sydney
No Personal Interest >>>> Posted: 07-27-04 02:02am
First my recommending ces machines (&
elsewhere such things as: cbt, walking,
relaxation, vitamins, other natural
supplements, yoga, pilates, checking
things on search engines, questioning drs
etc, etc) is totally different simply
because 1) I recommend a variety of things
depending on the person & situation -
not just one "holy" solution to all
problems
& 2) because I have absolutely
no personal interest in any of these
sites/companies/products etc whatsoever
second, a degree & long work history
involving writing reports has obviously
done nothing to help your comprehension -
I support your site & it's usefulness
to people a fact you seem incapable of
understanding.
|
qt3
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 264
Re: No Personal Interest >>>> Posted: 07-28-04 12:11pm
purple333
wrote:
first my recommending ces
machines (& elsewhere such things as:
cbt, walking, relaxation, vitamins, other
natural supplements, yoga, pilates,
checking things on search engines,
questioning drs etc, etc) is totally different simply
because 1) I recommend a variety of things
depending on the person & situation -
not just one "holy" solution to all
problems
& 2) because I have absolutely
no personal interest in any of these
sites/companies/products etc whatsoever
second, a degree & long work history
involving writing reports has obviously
done nothing to help your comprehension -
I support your site & it's usefulness
to people a fact you seem incapable of
understanding.
as much as I hate having to take sides...
Sometimes that is necessary and this is a
perfect example. Purple was nothing but
respectful in her first reply to you and
you got defensive with her. She pointed
out what was obvious and then went on to
endorse your site's potential usefullness.
Purple is this particular boards mvp and
spends countless hours giving the best
advice she can for no compensation. If I
were you rather than trying to attack her
motives I would thank her for endorsing
your site!
Q
|
>?¿_BaByGuRL_?¿<
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 06 Jul 2004 Posts: 54
Re: No Personal Interest >>>> Posted: 07-29-04 03:57am
qt3
wrote:
purple333
wrote:
first my recommending ces
machines (& elsewhere such things as:
cbt, walking, relaxation, vitamins, other
natural supplements, yoga, pilates,
checking things on search engines,
questioning drs etc, etc) is totally different simply
because 1) I recommend a variety of things
depending on the person & situation -
not just one "holy" solution to all
problems
& 2) because I have absolutely
no personal interest in any of these
sites/companies/products etc whatsoever
second, a degree & long work history
involving writing reports has obviously
done nothing to help your comprehension -
I support your site & it's usefulness
to people a fact you seem incapable of
understanding.
as much as I hate having to take sides...
Sometimes that is necessary and this is a
perfect example. Purple was nothing but
respectful in her first reply to you and
you got defensive with her. She pointed
out what was obvious and then went on to
endorse your site's potential usefullness.
Purple is this particular boards mvp and
spends countless hours giving the best
advice she can for no compensation. If I
were you rather than trying to attack her
motives I would thank her for endorsing
your site!
Q
im going to have to agree with that, too.
|
purple333
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 1420 Location: Sydney
Thanks Guys!! Posted: 07-29-04 06:21am
Just for your added information I actually
worked in the same job (probation &
parole officer) in the same city - same
government department as jur at an
overlapping time & have discussed
hypoglyceamia with him & heard him
talk on the subject & know the
treatment/attitude doled out to him by
some people here because of his views.
I posted here without any of that detail
because what I post here has nothing to do
with any personal knowledge etc I have of
the person posting it has only to do with
what I feel should be said in relation to
the topic & discussion.
It is nice though to see that there are
some people out there who understood what
I said etc. So again thanks.
Cheri
|
Haley
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Feb 2004 Posts: 122
Posted: 08-10-04 00:26am
Wow you ended up getting a lot of
different advice here imp. I hope you
find something that is helping you
as for the guy attacking purple. I agree
with qt3 and babygurl. You rock purple!
,
denying it 
& saying that
the site was informative & useful!!
