Is my son, and, was diagnosed with
schizophrenia january of 2003 . Since he
's been on clozaril, he hasn 't : 1 made a
suicide attempt 2 had any hallucinations,
and or, 3 had any alcohol . So, we are "
managing " for the first time since he
graduated high school which was may of
2001 . Jeff 's first suicide attempt was
06 18 01 @ 2200 . We almost lost him .
The respiratory therapist let me know the
machine they had jeff hooked up to had
shown that jeff stopped breathing on his
own within 5 minutes of the x he came thru
the er doors . That was the first attempt
of 15, to date . The last attempt he made
was the first week of november of 2002
which was just before they put him on
clozaril . I had fought him going to a
state hospital because of all the " horror
stories " and too, because I knew I would
lose " control " of him . But, when jeff
kept hallucinations for two and a half
weeks, I finally let him go . He 's been
" fine " or, as " fine " as possible, ever
since . Jeff made an a in calculus iii,
last semester . Peace laura ps jeff
means peace !!!
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purple333
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 1420 Location: Sydney
Posted: 07-29-04 09:53am
Laura,
i know you can't stand me but this is
about jeff not us & I just wondered
what (if any) alternative
treatments/therapies you have researched
for him.
If you have please keep looking if you
haven't please start - including natural
therapists.
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lollipop4u
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 79 Location: pottsboro
Re Consider Your Options ... Posted: 07-29-04 15:04pm
I am anxious, very anxious to learn any
and all that I possibly can to help
someone that I love very much, my son,
jeff . Thank you, if you feel that you
can offer advice or shine any light our
way, please, do so . Laura
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purple333
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 1420 Location: Sydney
Posted: 07-30-04 00:03am
Laura,
i don't know that I can help, but I know
from my experiences with both my children
(quite different but equally horrifying -
due to medical blinders & incompetence
& so on on the part of numerous
medical people - drs clinicians
counsellors etc - I could have lost them
both at different times & still could
due to on-going incompetence etc) that
many drs have a narrow view on all issues
(over specialization hasn't helped) &
so often they don't think to look for
alternatives - also some have interests in
pharmaceutical companies (my own
psychiatrist is so angry about drs &
all this as he feels drs then fail to
offer their patients the treatments that
are right for them as opposed to giving
them either the drug of the minute or
diagnosing the "seemingly obvious" rather
than looking further & considering
that they are dealing with an individual
who may appear to fit the criteria for
illness "x" but if they bothered to look
further & treat the individual they
might find that he had illness "y" or that
although he has illness "x" he would
benefit more from treatment "a" than the
usual drug.
Hope that made some sense & explained
abit of where i'm coming rfom & why
& also that I have talked to moer than
one dr (specialists in different fields)
who have agreed that all this is a problem
or then there were the drs who when I have
asked a reasonable question either a) got
angry - how dare I ask a question or b)
ignored me & pretended that I just
hadn't spoken!!
If you would prefer to pm me about this do
so. If I am to offer any suggestions of
where you might start to reseacrh or find
help it would help to know a little more
about jeff (the person not the illness!!)
what was he like as a little boy - any
problems/concerns/indications of anything?
(my son showed signs of "problem"
behaviour at well virtually birth!!) how
was he at school? How was he socially?
What did & does he enjoy - interests,
hobbies etc? Then how did things start to
go wrong & end up with him being
diagnosed as schizophrenic?
Now just a side note (& i'm not saying
this applies to jeff but I do think it
supports the need to research &
question for yourself) when my
mother-in-law was diagnosed in adelaide
(capital city of south australia) it was
later proven that schizophrenia was the
"in" disorder at that time in adelaide
& that hundreds of people were
misdiagosed & in fact had numerous
other problems including for example ptsd,
postpartum depression, anxiety & just
plain feeling down!! For various reasons
I believe that this applies to my m-i-l
but after 40 years of meds, treatment
& belief she has long ago become the
diagnosis.
Even without knowing anything about jeff I
would personally start (as I did with my
kids - as I continue to do for them!!
Unfortunately) with a search engine &
type in queries like what medical
conditions can cause schizophrenia or can
cause symptoms that mimic schizophrenia
(god that is hard to spell!!) also i'd
type in the same sort of questions
regarding each of his early & current
symptoms - again I am not saying his
diagnosis is wrong but I just think it's
worth starting at the beginning then i'd
move to alternative treatments - search
for alternative therapies, alternative
medicine to treat schizophrenia - there's
a dr on here a homeopath from india
"drvenogupal" I can look it up properly
if you can't locate him - pm him & ask
if he knows of any homeopathic or
alternative treatments for schizophrenia -
I will also try to remember to ask my
psychiatrist when I see him (unfortunately
not for another month) whether he knows of
anything.
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lollipop4u
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 79 Location: pottsboro
See Jeff Posted: 07-31-04 04:20am
For reply . Laura
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lollipop4u
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 79 Location: pottsboro
Jeff ... Posted: 07-31-04 04:47am
Was not a druggie did not have a punk
hairdo nor any earings ! He was a warm
loving affectionate child and later became
an overachiever which I know now is a sign
of low self eseem ! Jeff 's freshman
year of highschool made the national beta
team , became a national science olympiad,
while attending the marine military
academy in harlingen, texas . The very
next year of highschool jeff became the
first sophmore in the history of the
academy to make captain of the rifle team,
he was also one of two sophmores out of
the academy of 500 that same year to make
honors chemestry I . His junior year of
highschool, he came back to me and was
lucky enough to find a math instructor at
our local highschool, who had been a
cooper union graduate ! Jeff had always
excelled in math ! Jeff 's senior year
of highschool took 3 ap courses each in 1
english 2 physics & 3 calculus I where
jeff made straight a 's ! At the end of
his senior year he made a 4 out of
possible 5 on his ap calculus test .
Only 1 out of 678 highschool seniors in
our nation could do what jeff did in math
that year ! He made 1160 on his sat 's .
Jeff checked himself into a behavioral
clinic 05 of 01 with ideas of suicide .
Laura
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purple333
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 1420 Location: Sydney
Posted: 07-31-04 09:26am
Jeff sounds very like my daughter super
smart, sets super high goals for herself
& yet feels like she isn't "good"
enough. Carissa though has (i pray) found
a niche for herself at university through
her interest in acting/performing & by
virtue of god's grace in giving her
wonderful friends there - something which
we were worried about as she was only 15
when she began university - so we worried
that perhaps the other (older) students
wouldn't accept her.
You talk about jeff's academic ability but
mention nothing about his friends &
interests - I think these two things are
so important for all of us - we are social
beings so we need friends but we also need
hobbies/interests - these things help keep
any/all of us "sane". I am not trying to
suggest that if he had the right friends
& interests that all would be
miraculously better but I do think that
friends & interests help. So ????
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lollipop4u
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 79 Location: pottsboro
Social Phobia ... Posted: 07-31-04 23:00pm
Plagues jeff and others like him with the
horrible illness that is the point of our
discussion that of schizophrenia . He won
't even go inside a store such as walmart
when we have to go shopping . But yes, of
course, friends would be wonderful for
jeff . Every once in a great while jeff
will find a movie that he wants to go see
and that we will do but other than that he
basically sees his own neighbors while
sitting out on the back porch . Jeff,
was " pre - med " when he was diagnosed .
Laura
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purple333
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 1420 Location: Sydney
Posted: 08-01-04 10:01am
I am slightly agoraphobic & totally
phobic about any plants/trees/bush etc I
can't even drive along a track or road
that "i" view as having bush too close - a
greenhouse has me turning grey with fear
& I have even been paralysed with fear
- no idea why- I also used to throw up
even if going to a neighbours for dinner -
much less a party then I threw up during
& after as well - these days I have
some control over it but it as control at
a huge cost to my health & temper etc.
So your reference to social phobia &
walmart is one I can understand.
I do believe though that in general the
more we are cut off or cut ourselves off
the worse it is for us mentally &
emotionally (& for jeff when you die
or even if you were to be ill & in
hospital) so are there any support groups
near you where members come out to meet
prospective members at their homes??
Another thing - these days - the computer
- does jeff have (or could you encourage -
or have someone else encourage him) an
interest in on-line chat groups (check msn
or yahoo etc for a range & variety of
topics & issues & interest groups)
my daughter belongs to several related to
fan fiction & tv fan networks etc -
some of them write "stories" about their
favourite shows/movies etc or discuss what
they thought about an episode or movie etc
- perhaps he would give this a go - many
members don't generally participate they
just enjoy reading what others write - a
good way to start??
If he could join a group on the net he
would not have to actually "sociialize"
with anyone yet he would be developing
better social skills & making friends
& who knows perhaps from one group
would come another??
Laura,
please look into some of the alternative
treatments & therapies - I am not
suggesting that they would "cure" jeff -
but surely it is worth looking for
anything that improves his quality of life
- as a mother I have no doubt that you
would agree with that. As a mother though
I also know how demoralizing it is to
search & keep coming up against brick
walls, also people's narrow-minds, people
who "blame" you, etc etc.
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lollipop4u
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 79 Location: pottsboro
I Am Not Sure ... Posted: 08-01-04 10:38am
If he is perhaps afraid of saying the
wrong thing to someone out there on a chat
line I really don 't know . One of jeff
's counselors told me that jeff was so
intelligent that he knows when the things
that he 's saying might be picked up on
by others, or, simply don 't " match "
what others are saying ( at the time ) and
it is for this reason he 's been very
difficult to assess/evaluate/diagnose .
So, but you asked about the computer .
Jeff, right now, enjoys playing the
computer game called " navy seals " .
And, before he was diagnosed, he used to
mimmick jfk 's voice and talk to people
via chat lines by saying things like " I
'm a harvard graduate " and , he 'd have a
playful look on his face while doing a
really beautiful job on the dialect !!!
Other times he would introduce himself as
leon phelps the " ladies man " again
showing a really wonderful memory for
words !!! We 've a wonderful computer
... Or I should say jeff has a
wonderful computer . He went hewlitt -
packard each x . The first one he bought
with some of the $ he made working for the
city the summer between his junior and
senior year of highschool . And this,
the second one he bought with some of his
" disability " insurance . This is sweet
but jeff gave his old computer to a widow
woman who lives directly behind us out by
the lake . Laura
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purple333
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 1420 Location: Sydney
Posted: 08-01-04 13:40pm
Very intelligent people think soooo
laterally & feel such empathy that it
causes great strain for them & it also
causes conflicting emotions (you say
something which you think! Has hurt the
other person so you empathize & feel
guilty but that makes you angry because he
ll you have a right to say something
without feeling guilty especially if it
was unintentional etc etc
>>>>>>>> so I was
actually not thinking of a chat line so
much as forums (but subject area specific
e.G. Movies or a group or series of
movies or a tv series, or a game)like this
where there's no actual contact, no seeing
or hearing & more time to think, as I
said where my daughter goes (she loves
csi) many people write stories &
others comment but others just "lurk"
& read without posting - still it
might be a "safe" start.
Jeff is hard to diagnose/assess/evaluate
because he's way brighter than them, he
functions on a different level of
thought(not schizophrenia - iq)so they
just don't comprehend his responses.
Imagine you talking to someone from
ethiopia (who spoke virtually no english)
communication breakdown!! In effect that
is what is happening between these dr's
& jeff. Add to that the fact that
jeff probably (both through studies he's
done & his iq etc) "knows" the right
answers & all the intricacies of each
answer way better than those asking the
questions - he probably answers questions
with questions that the drs hadn't even
perceived!!
Lateral thinking, kindness,
iq>>>> discussion forums,
writing?? Has he ever thought of writing
poetry or stories???
I know that on the face of it these
suggestions might not seem to ne things
that would help him when you're no longer
around but I think that anything that
helps him in anyway helps him for whatever
lies ahead??
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lollipop4u
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 79 Location: pottsboro
Jeff 's Iq ... Posted: 08-01-04 21:33pm
Is 146 . That is 1 point > genius .
Ok fine, but more specifically, english
never was his " cup of tea " ! And, I don
't know that he hasn 't just simply made
that his " wooden leg ", or what . He
's genius level in math and he 's excelled
in other things, too . Like, the mma
made him " cadet of the month " and also,
corporal of the jr rotc the 2nd month of
his sophmore year of highschool . He 's
always made straight a 's but, always
complained about english . Our next door
neighbor, shelly is a published author
and, is now writing a book about jeff
called " jeffrey 's garden " as jeff has
always kept a beautiful garden each and
every year but now has neighbors that
enjoy very much " share - cropping " .
It 's kinda cute, really . Her concept
is jeff 's little world, his little circle
and, she says, she 's hitting a bit on how
the neighbors all have problems
themselves, too . Everybody has
something and more than that the focus of
the book is how we all help one another .
She asked jeff for his permission do do
the book and he agreed . Laura ps jeff
was an excellent portrait artist in
highschool but hasn 't done anything since
then . He started out drawing beautiful
faces of aliens and then people like santa
and jimi hendrix ! They were excellent !
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purple333
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 1420 Location: Sydney
Coincidences Abound Posted: 08-02-04 12:53pm
My kids are of similar iq's - my son
(although only 9) is also ideologially
opposed to english!! Loves maths though
& sport - art I don't know about yet!!
Whereas my daughter is great at english
but alays oppsed maths & dropped it as
soon as humanly possible. My son is
likely to end up medicated unless god
steps in to "fix" or change something!!
It sounds though as if maybe jeff has more
strengths than you realize (mother's
sometimes worry so much about their babies
that they fail to see the trees for the
woods) - his garden, his friends nearby,
the neighbour who is writing the book
(even the fact that jeff gave her his
permission - says alot for his
strengths!!).
Is there someone(other than you &
immediate family or drs etc) who could
encourage him to resume drawing - that
could be a wonderful outlet for his
emotions as well as a source of income????
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jurplesman
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Posts: 139 Location: Sydney Australia
Schizophrenia And Nutrition Posted: 08-12-04 23:37pm
I have been going through these posts and
I like purple333 suggestion to research
the internet for alternative approaches to
schizophrenia. I prefer the term
‘complementary’ to indicate that as far as
I know this must be done in cooperation
with a open-minded psychiatrist, of which
unfortunately there are not many.
As a retired nutritional psychotherapist I
know that schizophrenics can be helped in
improving their symptoms by nutritional
means. Some of the side efects of drugs
can be reduced by nutritional means.
This is of course a rather complex matter,
but I have explained this in one of my
articles
"he knows when the things that he 's
saying might be picked up on by others,
or, simply don 't " match " what others
are saying ( at the time ) and it is for
this reason he 's been very difficult to
assess/evaluate/diagnose ."this is my case
as well.I was full of delusions but
actually I did not respond to them
much,because I knew that they were
unproved. Therefore I am hard to be
diagnosed by others.
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kayo1408
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 3 Location: Germany
Iq's And Schizophrenia Posted: 09-04-04 10:26am
Hi laura,
my id is beyond 130, i'm having kind of
schizophrenia. I think, part of all the
problems is the pressure you may pu on
jeff. You write about all the
achievements jeff has reached. But what
do you know about his love life ? Does
he have had a love life ?
My parents were not able to talk with me
about girls. They even were not able to
give commentaries on my favourite girls.
It was always the thing with putting
pressure to learn, to make my degrees
etc.
Noone was giving respect to my love life,
which therefore wasn't existing!
Kay
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purple333
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 1420 Location: Sydney
Posted: 09-06-04 08:56am
One point here as a parent of 2 very
bright children - who are told that all
anyone can do is their best & that our
best will vary from one day to the next
etc - bright people put huge (caps)
expectations on themselves often totally
unreasonable expectations & can bring
about their own mental & emotional
disasters.
