Paper On Fahrenheit 9/11?????????????? Posted: 10-11-04 16:21pm
I have to do a paper on this movie any
ideals I have to see whats true in irt and
wate over exerataded in it too and back up
thins with facts
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linuxChique
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 4535
Posted: 10-11-04 16:37pm
I haven't seen it, but from what I hear,
if you have to find things michael moore
lied about, it should be pretty easy!
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IDABABY
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 12 Mar 2004 Posts: 2236 Location: ***Wisconsin Baby***
Posted: 10-11-04 16:39pm
Personally, I hate michael moore! I
didn't watch his columbine movie nor this
one...Just my opinion.
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sdwood2
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 26 Jan 2004 Posts: 645 Location: KY
Posted: 10-11-04 16:40pm
Thanks I kind of heard that too I rented
fahrenheit 9/11 tonight and also rented
fahrenhype its sopose to be about lies and
stuff so we will see it has to be a 5 page
paper
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sweetsuzi
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 831 Location: Bonny Scotland
Posted: 10-11-04 17:36pm
I havent seen farhenheit 9/11, but after
watching bowling for columbine, I owuldnt
be suprised if it isnt eay to find faults
with it big time!! I hate bush and love
the idea of someone finding dirt on him to
spell out the fool he is. But u have to
discredit michael moore for his sheer lies
and lack of proper journalism and
evidence!
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bellax0x
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 3572 Location: Jersey Baby!
Posted: 10-11-04 21:30pm
How could he lie about anything? Its all
real crap other ppl taped??
The deal is that michael moore didn't lie
in his documentaries, and you definitely
can not call it journalism. It's very
opinionated and one sided which is the
opposite of journalism. I personally
loved bowling for columbine, but I haven't
seen fahrenheit 9/11 yet. Michael moore
is very anti-bush so of course the movie
is going to be anti-bush and full of
exaggerations, but not lies.
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2ferano
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Dec 2003 Posts: 3717
Posted: 10-11-04 23:18pm
Yeah, if it was lies then it would be
slander and it wouldn't have ever been
released.
It may be (and probably is) all one-sided
and opinionated, but it cannot be lies
otherwise he would be getting the crap
sued out of him right now.
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linuxChique
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 4535
Posted: 10-11-04 23:32pm
Yes it would. It wasn't released by
anyone who has an obligation to tell the
truth. Its just like any other movie. He
can put whatever he wants in his film and
release it.
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linuxChique
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 4535
Posted: 10-11-04 23:46pm
Here are just a couple of the things he
twisted in that film.
1. The gore “victory” rally isn’t
celebrating a florida win. It was held
before the polls had even opened.
2. Like all the other networks, fox
mistakenly said that gore had won in
florida. The first network to retract the
florida mistake was cbs, not fox.
3. A 6-month study by a consortium of
major newspapers shows that bush would
have won the florida recount under any of
the terms which gore sought in his
lawsuits.
4. Investigation by the palm beach post
and others shows that race was not a
reason why election officials mistakenly
disqualified some voters because they were
incorrectly
thought to have felony convictions.
5. Bush’s presidency before 9/11 was not
in serious trouble. No commentator said
that he looked like a lame-duck president.
Congress had passed his #1 bill (the tax
cut) and was on the way to passing his #2
bill (the education bill). The scene at
the end of the movie in which bush tells a
rich audience “i call you my base,” was
from an october 2000 charity fund-raiser.
Both gore and bush spoke at the
fund-raiser and, as is the custom at the
fund-raiser, made fun of themselves.
6. “in his first eight months in office
before september 11th, george w. Bush was
on vacation, according to the washington
post, forty-two percent of the time.” as
the
washington post reported, the figure
includes weekends, and includes time in
“vacation locations” such as camp david,
where bush was working—as when he met with
tony blair.
7. In the golf course scene (about the
middle of the movie), bush had just heard
about a terrorist attack on israel. He
called the press together to make a quick
statement con-
demning the terrorism against israel. He
was not speaking about attacks on the
united states.
8. There is no evidence that bush did not
read the aug. 6, 2001 presidential daily
briefing about al qaeda.
9. He never claimed that the title’s
“vagueness” was an excuse for not reading
it.
10. The briefing did not say “said that
osama bin laden was planning to attack
america by hijacking airplanes.” it said
that the fbi has “not been able to
corroborate” such a threat.
11. The saudis left the u.S. Only after
air travel was opened for the general
public.
12. According to richard clarke and the
september 11 commission, clarke personally
approved the saudi departures, and the
decision went no higher in the chain of
com-
mand.
13. Moore lied to a tv reporter in
claiming that fahrenheit discloses
clarke’s decision to the audience. Clarke
called the saudi exit material in
fahrenheit a “mistake” by moore.
14. Contrary to what fahrenheit claims,
the september 11 commission found that
many saudis were asked “detailed
questions” before being allowed to
leave.
15. James bath did not invest bin laden
family money in bush’s energy company
arbusto. He invested his own money.
16. Bath’s name was blacked-out from an
alabama national guard record released by
the white house—as required by federal
law, which prohibits the disclosure of
health-related personal information.
17. Prince bandar has way too much
influence on the u.S. Government, as
fahrenheit shows, but american coddling of
the saudi tyranny is a long-standing
bi-partisan tradition, not a bush
invention.
18. Harken energy: bush only sold the
stock after company lawyers told him it
was ok.
19. The reason that bush “beat the rap”
was because there was no evidence he had
engaged in insider trading.
20. The carlyle group is not a bush
playground. Many bush opponents are
investors, including george soros.
21. The bush administration dealt carlyle
a huge financial blow by canceling the
crusader missile, one of the few weapons
cancellations in the bush
administration.
22. The bin ladens dropped out of carlyle
before the stock sale. Of the 1.4 billion
that the saudis invested in companies with
bush connections, the vast majority of the
money was invested in carlyle before
george h.W. Bush joined the firm.
23. Craig unger claims that the saudis
have $860 billion invested in the u.S.
The figure appears in his book house of
bush, house of saud, but neither of
unger’s cited sources
support such a large figure.
24. Moore claims that the saudis “own 7%
of america.” but even if you believe
unger’s fictitious $860 billion figure,
the saudis own only about 7% of total
foreign investment
in america, which is over 10 trillion
dollars. Only if all of america were
owned by foreigners could moore’s claim be
correct.
25. The saudi embassy does not receive
special protection. It is not the only
foreign embassy which is guarded by the
u.S. Secret service. An international
treaty signed by the u.S. Requires the
u.S. To protect any embassy which asks
for protection.
26. Moore’s insinuation that bush runs
u.S. Foreign policy according to saudi
instructions is contradicted by the
afghanistan invasion (which toppled the
taliban regime
which the saudis strongly supported), and
by the iraq war (which the saudis opposed,
in part because iraqi oil will compete
with saudi oil).
27. As governor of texas, bush never met
with taliban representatives.
28. The proposed unocal pipeline was
supported by the clinton administration,
but unocal abandoned the pipeline idea in
1998.
29. The new afghani government has signed
a protocol to build a pipeline, but it is
an entirely different pipeline, in a
location hundreds of miles distant from
the unocal proposal.
30. Construction has not begun on the new
pipeline. Although moore claims that
“enron stood to benefit” from the
pipeline, enron has never had any
participation in either
pipeline.
31. The bush administration did not
“welcome” taliban diplomats in march 2001,
but instead condemned them for failing to
hand over osama bin laden.
32. Despite moore’s pose in the movie, he
opposed the afghanistan war, and—in
december 2002—claimed that osama bin laden
might be innocent.
33. In claiming that the afghanistan
invasion was a mere ruse to protect the
saudis, moore omits the results of
liberation in afghanistan: destruction of
al qaeda training camps, the creation of
free elections, more freedom for women,
and the homecoming of 1.5 million refugees
from the taliban.
34. The various quotes about bush
administration cooperation with the
september 11 commission have been
resequenced to create a false impression.
In july 2003, chairman kean complained
about lack of cooperation. In february
2004, bush said that the white house had
given extraordinary cooperation. Kean
agreed, and praised the white house for
providing “unprecedented” access.
35. John ashcroft didn’t really lose a
senate election to a “dead guy.” mel
carnahan died in a plane crash a few weeks
before the election, and the missouri
governor had prom-
ised to appoint carnahan’s widow jean
carnahan if voters pulled the lever for
mel carnahan.
36. The fbi did not “know” about al qaeda
suspects who were attending flight
training schools. The information was
never passed above the level of one field
office.
37. Ashcroft did not cut overall
counter-terrorism funding. He only
proposed a one-year cut in a particular
program that already had two years of
unspent money.
38. Rep. Porter goss says he has an “800
number,” and the fahrenheit caption says
“he’s lying.” goss does have a tollfree
number, although the prefix is 877.
39. Moore say saddam’s iraq “had never
murdered a single american citizen.” in
fact, saddam paid for terrorist bombers in
israel who murdered americans, along with
people of other nationalities. Saddam
also sheltered the american-killing
terrorist abu nidal, and the bomb-maker
for the 1993 world trade center
bombings.
40. In addition, saddam ordered
assassination attempts against former
president bush and against u.S. Diplomats
in the philippines.
41. Moore claims that the saddam regime
“never threatened to attack the united
states.” in fact, in 1997 the regime
publicly ordered: “american and british
interests, embassies,
and naval ships in the arab region should
be the targets of military operations and
commando attacks by arab political
forces.” on the first anniversary of
september 11, saddam's regime called for
suicide attacks on americans.
42. Moore claims that there was no
connection between iraq and al qaeda. In
fact, there is an extensive record of
collaboration although—as the september 11
commission
announced—there is no proof that saddam
participated beforehand in al qaeda
attacks on america.
43. Fahrenheit shows condoleezza rice
saying, “oh, indeed there is a tie between
iraq and what happened on 9/11.” the
audience laughs derisively. Here is what
rice really said on nov. 28, 2003: "oh,
indeed there is a tie between iraq and
what happened on 9/11. It’s not that
saddam hussein was somehow himself and his
regime involved in 9/11, but, if you think
about what caused 9/11, it is the rise of
ideologies of hatred that
lead people to drive airplanes into
buildings in new york. This is a great
terrorist, international terrorist network
that is determined to defeat freedom. It
has perverted islam
from a peaceful religion into one in which
they call on it for violence. And they’re
all linked. And iraq is a central front
because, if and when, and we will, we
change the nature of iraq to a place that
is peaceful and democratic and prosperous
in the heart of the middle east, you will
begin to change the middle east...."
44. Moore portrays pre-liberation iraq as
a happy nation of kite-flying and
weddings. In fact, a sixth of the
population had fled saddam’s tyranny. The
united nations and
amnesty international condemned “the
systematic, widespread and extremely grave
violations of human rights and of
international humanitarian law by the
government of
iraq, resulting in an all-pervasive
repression and oppression sustained by
broad-based discrimination and widespread
terror.’’
45. The only iraqi casualties which moore
shows are civilians, although military
casualties far outnumbered civilian.
46. When showing pictures of buildings
being blown up, moore does not reveal that
many of them were military buildings, and
civilians were never allowed anywhere
near
them.
47. A humorous sequence making fun of
tiny countries in the iraq liberation
coalition does not even mention the major
countries in the coalition, such as the
u.K., australia, italy, and japan. Not a
deceit, but mean-spirited and exploitive:
the footage of the funeral of u.S. Air
force maj. Gregory stone at arlington
national cemetery appears without his
family's permission, and over their
vehement objection. Major stone strongly
believed in the iraq mission, as does his
family. The footage of massachusetts
national guardsman peter damon, who is
undergoing therapy at walter reed army
medical center is also used without his
permission.
48. Despite moore’s claims, american
media have not been mindlessly supportive
of the iraq war. For example, peter
jennings has been extremely critical. The
evidence that
moore offers to portray jennings as a war
supporter is a clip of jennings reporting
in april 2003 that saddam’s army had
collapsed—which was true.
49. The scene of american soldiers making
fun of a man underneath a sheet is not
torture of a prisoner of war. They are
making fun of a drunk who passed out in
the street.
50. Moore reports that bush proposed
closing some veteran’s hospitals. But he
also proposed opening other veteran’s
hospitals.
51. Bush once opposed renewing a special
bonus of $75/month for soldiers in
“imminent danger zones.” moore claims that
bush proposed cutting combat soldiers’ pay
by 1/3; but a soldier's pay and benefits
is over $27,000 per year, even at low
enlisted grades.
52. While making false claims about a
bush pay cut, moore omits the fact that
bush sought and won a 3.7% military pay
raise in 2003.
53. Moore claims that only one
congressman has a child in iraq.
Actually, two do. (democratic senator tim
johnson of s.D., and republican rep.
Duncan hunter of california.) also, john
ashcroft has a son on a naval ship in the
persian
gulf.
54. Fahrenheit deceptively cut the
footage of rep. Mark kennedy to make it
look like kennedy rebuffed moore’s request
to help enlist congressional children. In
fact,
kennedy said it was a good idea, and
offered to help.
55. Fahrenheit shows rep. Michael castle
walking past moore. But rep. Castle is
childless.
56. Based on census bureau data,
congressional families are more likely
than other families to have children
serving in iraq.
57. Moore calls flint, michigan, “my
hometown.” in fact, he grew up in davison,
a much wealthier and much whiter suburb.
58. In fahrenheit, moore pretends to
support our troops. But in fact, he
supports the enemy in iraq-the coalition
of saddam loyalists, al qaeda operatives,
and terrorists con-
trolled by iran or syria-who are united in
their desire to homicide iraqis, and to
destroy any possibility of democracy in
iraq. Here is what moore said on april
14, 2004, about the
forces who are killing americans and
trying to impose totalitarian rule on
iraq: “the iraqis who have risen up
against the occupation are not
‘insurgents’ or ‘terrorists’ or ‘the
enemy.’ they are the revolution, the
minutemen, and their numbers will grow—and
they will win.” do you really think that
someone who wants iraq to be ruled by
islamist or
ba’athist tyranny, and who deliberately
kills innocent civilians with car bombs,
is like the american minutemen?
59. As reported in the trade journal
screen daily, affiliates of the iranian
and syrian-backed terrorist group
hezbollah are promoting fahrenheit 9/11,
and moore’s middle east distributor, front
row, is accepting the terrorist
assistance: “in terms of marketing the
film, front row is getting a boost from
organizations related to hezbollah which
have rung up from lebanon to ask if there
is anything they can do to support the
film. And although [front row’s managing
director giancarlo] chacra says he and his
company feel strongly that fahrenheit is
not anti-american, but anti-bush, ‘we
can’t go
against these organizations as they could
strongly boycott the film in lebanon and
syria.’” (nancy tartaglione, “fahrenheit
to be first doc released theatrically in
middle east,” screen daily.Com, june 9,
2004. The story is discussed in samantha
ellis, “fahrenheit 9/11 gets help offer
from hezbollah,” the guardian (london),
june 17, 2004.)
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sdwood2
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 26 Jan 2004 Posts: 645 Location: KY
Posted: 11-27-04 23:53pm
Well we are doing a paper on this again so
what you gave me helped out erin
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Heathergirl
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 719 Location: Michigan
Posted: 11-28-04 00:04am
He is a liar and i'm shamed to say I live
in the same city. I hate moore.
Personally I can not stand moore!! He
distorted the facts to fit his agenda!!
He did lie on several things!! I could
care less if he hates bush he should have
told the truth!! Yes he can lie and not
be sued for slander b/c it was a movie not
a documentry as the box suggests! If you
recall the orginal company refused to
publish it because of it's nature!! I
think he should be put on trial for it!!
Whether someone hates the president or not
that is thier choice but you still should
support your country. Underminding bush
does not help n e one but the terrorists!!
Ok I spoke my peace lol!!
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mommax3
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 06 Nov 2004 Posts: 1134 Location: Virginia
Posted: 11-28-04 11:32am
I am so dumb and in the dark when it comes
to things such as this.....
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sarahsweet
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Oct 2004 Posts: 2485 Location: traverse city, michigan
Posted: 11-28-04 15:54pm
I think the guy is an fool. He only makes
himself look stupid. But maybe thats
because im a bush fan....
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laura_girl
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Mar 2004 Posts: 173 Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posted: 11-28-04 17:00pm
......Everything in the film was checked
by several groups of independant fact
checkers. Google it if you don't believe
me. Also, you can be sued for slander if
you say things that aren't true - in any
context, film or not. It's an editorial,
not an inquiry, but to argue that
everything is false because mm has a
political point he is trying to prove is
going too far. By that notion you'd have
to exclude many news networks, especially
fox, which was the greatest provider of
neo-con news on the continent.