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Michelle1337
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 1739
Location: Houston, Texas
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Predestination Vs. Freewill
Posted: 10-25-04 22:19pm
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Me and lauren were having a discussion
about this tonight. And we thought it
would be interesting to see what all of
you think.
Me and lauren are both christians...So we
have a christian point of view on the
subject...But we are interested in what
you guys believe.
*~~~~~~~~*
i believe that .God gives every person a
choice in everything...
Like, picture a tree...And as it goes up
it has branches that stem on each
side..And with each choice you make you
head in one direction. And even though
.God gave you the choice between the two
branches..He knew which you were gonna
choose.
And so therefore (using my relationship
with chris as an example), .God knew I was
gonna choose to date chris, and .He knew I
would choose to sleep with him, so
therefore, the sin of pre-marital sex was
planned for me in a way, but my choices
led me to that sin. If I had chosen to
take the other "branch" and not date
chris, there would have been other
"planned" sins for me in the future.
*~~~~~~~~*
which puts me into an "in-between"
category. I dont believe in either
predestination or freewill. I believe in
a combination of the two.
And just incase some of you didnt
know...
predestination - the doctrine
that god has foreordained all things,
especially that god has elected certain
souls to eternal salvation.
freewill -
done of one's own accord;
voluntary
i dont want this to turn into a huge
debate or anything, I just want to see
what you guys think on the subject. So
lets please not let this get out of hand.
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IDABABY
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: 2236
Location: ***Wisconsin Baby***
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Posted: 10-25-04 22:26pm
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I agree, but after things happen...You
have choices in a way..Ya know??God makes
you grow as a person...And you grow and
start seeing more..And make better choices
in life...Thats what I think about it.
-kristin
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nippz
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2173
Location: ,
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Posted: 10-25-04 22:41pm
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It's true! Or I say so. Im a strong
catholic christian, and I believe that we
all made our decision before we were
born.
Well I believe (dont critisize me on this,
because I said I believe .. Not stating
this is a fact or anything) that we all
had lives as angels before we were on
earth. Our birth is a forgetting. Once
we are born into mortality, we forget
about our lives before we were alive.
Moving on.
We all knew about the lives we were about
to live, the decisions we made, and
risks/mistakes.
I dont know, haha thats just what I
believe. I read about it from this lady
who had a near death experience. She
died, talk to god and god gave her a
second life..
But yeah. We must not forget, everything
happens for a reason! God already knew
our plans in lives and god forgives.
You know how people say that your punished
for having sex by getting pregnant? I
dont think god punishes anyone or tries to
teach them a lesson, because he already
knew about the mistakes we would make.
And like I said, everything happens for a
reason 
ok. Thats just what I believe so pleease
no one health forum at me. Like I said im
a strong catholic christian, and if your
wondering about that book I read its
called "embraced by the light". It even
has some info about what god says about
abortions + pregnancy and everything, its
a great book and I recommend it if you're
a religious believer of god and wondering
about life.
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linuxChique
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 05 May 2004
Posts: 4535
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Posted: 10-25-04 22:43pm
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Freewill all the way!! God wouldn't be a
perfect .God if he chose for specific
people to go to hell. He's got to give
us a chance. There is no other choice in
his nature. He knows, but he must give us
freewill.
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Nellypoo
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 10
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Posted: 10-25-04 23:10pm
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Have you girls taken history 156 in
college 
do you understand the first and second
great awakening? John calvin, jonathan
edwards, george whitefield ?Calvinism,
deism? Understand the christian,
anglican, presbyterian religion origins
and their take on predestination &
freewill?? I think the history of these
should be taken into account before saying
which you believe in pretty heavy stuff!
:d
i don't have a preference of the two.
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Daile
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 319
Location: Missouri
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Posted: 10-25-04 23:16pm
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Well, I don't believe in the definition of
predestination that you gave, because I
don't believe in a god, persay. I believe
that there is fate, and that some things
are meant to happen. I believe in soul
mates: that two people are meant to be
together, and nothing will stand in their
way. And I believe that you are meant to
go through the bad stuff as well as the
good, because the bad also contributes to
the person you are today.
Daile
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Nellypoo
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 10
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smith8500
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 6623
Location: Louisiana
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Posted: 10-25-04 23:26pm
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I'm 100% with you michelle.
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Michelle1337
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 1739
Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: 10-26-04 00:29am
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Thanks girls for all your opinions. Its
really interesting to see all of the
different opinions and beliefs that we
have on this forum.
And thanks for keeping it clean!!
Keep 'em coming!!
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newlife
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 874
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Re: Predestination Vs. Freewill
Posted: 10-26-04 08:09am
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| michelle1337
wrote: | me and lauren were having a
discussion about this tonight. And we
thought it would be interesting to see
what all of you think.
Me and lauren are both christians...So we
have a christian point of view on the
subject...But we are interested in what
you guys believe.
*~~~~~~~~*
i believe that .God gives every person a
choice in everything...
Like, picture a tree...And as it goes up
it has branches that stem on each
side..And with each choice you make you
head in one direction. And even though
.God gave you the choice between the two
branches..He knew which you were gonna
choose.
And so therefore (using my relationship
with chris as an example), .God knew I was
gonna choose to date chris, and .He knew I
would choose to sleep with him, so
therefore, the sin of pre-marital sex was
planned for me in a way, but my choices
led me to that sin. If I had chosen to
take the other "branch" and not date
chris, there would have been other
"planned" sins for me in the future.
*~~~~~~~~*
which puts me into an "in-between"
category. I dont believe in either
predestination or freewill. I believe
in a combination of the two.
And just incase some of you didnt
know...
predestination - the doctrine
that god has foreordained all things,
especially that god has elected certain
souls to eternal salvation.
freewill -
done of one's own accord;
voluntary
i dont want this to turn into a huge
debate or anything, I just want to see
what you guys think on the subject. So
lets please not let this get out of
hand. |
i agree with your point of view.
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sparklypixie12
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 3099
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Posted: 10-26-04 08:24am
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To an extent I believe in pre-destination-
I believe that its already determined when
we're meant to die but we have the free
will to change things-i believe that god
knows when I will die & how I will
die. I believe that to a small extent we
can control things for example, we choose
whether we step out onto the road without
checking for traffic-one day we might not
check & get hit by a bus but if we had
have checked it might not have been our
time to die yet....Confusing I know!
I believe that we have free will to choose
to do things-we all have the free will to
choose to do certain things-people may say
murderers have the free will to choose
whether or not they homicide however by
law & morality they are bound not to
do it-they may feel free in themselves to
commit such crimes however this very
freedom will be removed because they'll
end up in jail!
Another point is how do we know that we
have free will?? Just because you sit
there & decide you want corn flakes
and not rice cripsies one day (not much of
an example I know!!) does that mean you've
used your free will to decide?? Perhaps
god already knows your choice-maybe he
knows what your choice will be 10years
before you choose it then that makes free
will an illusion. No one has come down
from above & told you 'you have free
will' so why do we presume we do?!
*can anyone tell that I study
philosophy??!!*
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bd1012
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 1998
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Posted: 10-26-04 08:40am
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I say screw "god's" plan.. This is my
life, not his and I am not a puppet in a
puppet show! Also, not to bring this up
again for debate but just saying.. If
predestination is true and abortion is
wrong, why did "god" make the mother
concieve if he knew she was going to
abort? That either wipes out the
predestination thing or the assumption
abortion is wrong to "god". Just a
thought. Anyways, what is the point of
our existence if we all have preordained
destinies? What, did he just get bored
one day and decide to make a puppet show
for himself but without strings? Thought
it would be fun to watch us screw
ourselves over time and time again and
thought it would be funny to give us urges
to do certain things and then set the
rules in opposition? Whatever 
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sparklypixie12
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 3099
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Posted: 10-26-04 09:01am
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Thing is though-none of us know if there
is a god or if there isnt so what we're
talking about could be completely
irrelevant....We'll find out for sure one
day! Brandy-you can't exactly say 'i am
not a puppet in a puppet show after
all...None of us truly know do we? Maybe
we have no choice about it....Maybe we
do...Who knows?! No one said
pre-destination is 'true' or right
though-it's all just opinion. I think god
allows a woman to conceive even if he
thought she'd abort the baby because he's
allowing her to use her free will to
choose-if he stopped her from getting
pregnant then that would be interfering in
her free will & stopping her from
making a choice
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bellax0x
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 3572
Location: Jersey Baby!
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Posted: 10-26-04 16:01pm
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This is what I believe
god has a plan for us and a n y t h I n g
that happens in your life was supposed to
happen. Even if its bad like dying as a
child.. There was a sig. Reason behind
it
<3
gaby
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linuxChique
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 05 May 2004
Posts: 4535
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Posted: 10-26-04 16:14pm
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That still doesn't say whether you believe
that .God *makes* those things happen or
if we choose our path in life.
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GuitarJade
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 330
Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: 10-26-04 16:36pm
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I'm pretty much with you michelle. My
best friend said it best when she said:
"god has a plan, and you can't stray from
that plan, but even if you do stray from
the plan, you don't really stray from the
plan because god knew that you were going
to stray from the plan, and therefore,
it's part of the plan..." (i know,
slightly confusing... Read it a couple of
times and you'll get it). I'm a christian
and I believe that humans have free will
but that god knows what we're going to do,
and therefore, it's already planned out
for us. It's a complicated thing...
Kinda like parenthood, life, and love...
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nippz
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2173
Location: ,
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Posted: 10-26-04 16:45pm
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| bd1012
wrote: | | if predestination is true
and abortion is wrong, why did "god" make
the mother concieve if he knew she was
going to abort?
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taken from the book I was talking about
earlier;
"after watching the spiris trying to
corral these two young people together, my
attention turned to other spirits making
preperations to go to earth. One
exceptionally brilliant and dynamic spirit
was just entering his mother's womb. He
had chosen to enter this world mentally
handicapped. He was very excited about
this opportunity and was aware of the
growth he and his parents would achieve.
The three of them had bonded with each
other and planned for this arrangement
long before. He chose to begin his mortal
life at his body's conception, and I
watched his spirit move into the womb and
enter the newly formed life. He was
anxious to feel the great love of his
mortal parents.
I learned that spirits can choose to enter
their mother's body at any stage of her
pregnancy. Once there, they immediately
begin experiencing mortality. Abortion, I
was told, is contrary to that which is
natural. The spirit comming into the body
feels a snese of rejection and sorrow. It
knows that the body was to be his, whether
it was conceived out of wedlock or was
handicapped or was only strong enough to
live a few hours. But the spirit also
feels compassion for it's mother, knowing
that she made a decision based on the
knowledge she had.
I saw many spirits who would only come to
the earth from a short time, living only
hours, or days after their birth. They
were as excited as the others, knowing
that they had a purpose to fulfill. I
understood that their deaths had been
appointed before their births - as were
all of ours. These spirits did not need
the developement that would result from
longer lives in mortality and their deaths
would provide challenges that would help
their parents grow. The grief that comes
here is intense but short. After we are
united again, tall the pain is washed away
and only the joy of our growth and
togetherness is felt.
A time was establised for each of us to
complete earthly education. Some spirits
would come only to be born, to give
experience to others and to pass quickly
out of this world. Some would live to an
old age to complete their goals and
benifit others by allowing them
opportunities to serve"
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babyluvwu
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 509
Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: 10-26-04 16:46pm
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Definitely freewill, it was given to us
even though god knew everything that was
going to happen already, he didnt plan it
that way, he just wanted for us to choose
whether we want to believe in him and
follow him and in return spend eternity
with him in heaven or choose to go our own
way and do what we wanted to do which is
the path that leads to destruction.
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