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where_is_the_line
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Posts: 173
Location: USA: NY & DC
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the Question of Just And Unjust Law
Posted: 11-09-04 23:24pm
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There are two types of laws: just and
unjust. I would agree with st. Augustine
that "an unjust law is no law at all."
now, what is the difference between the
two? How does one determine whether a law
is just or unjust? A just law is a
man-made code that squares with the moral
law or the law of god. An unjust law is a
code that is out of harmony with the moral
law. To put it in the terms of st.
Thomas aquinas: an unjust law is a human
law that is not rooted in eternal law and
natural law. Any law that uplifts human
personality is just. Any law that
degrades human personality is unjust.
Sometimes a law is just on its face and
unjust in its application.
I hope you are able to ace the distinction
I am trying to point out.
Society must protect the robbed and punish
the robber.
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Izzy
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 883
Location: Earth
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Posted: 11-10-04 06:28am
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So society must protect the weak from the
strong!
Thats not happening the most vunrable and
weak in our society are been exempt from
being protected, the elderly, disabled and
of course the unborn.... Whos next?
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oopoopoop
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 1515
Location: ,
Thanks: 78
Thanked:5
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Posted: 11-11-04 06:12am
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I think what we have here are the walking
undead. Go suck someone else's blood, you
vampires.
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Daile
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 319
Location: Missouri
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Posted: 11-11-04 07:14am
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Although I would agree that some laws are
unjust, I do not believe that you're basis
for determining which these are is right.
You say it should be based on the moral
law, or the law of god, but there is no
proof that there is a god, or which god is
the true god. Until someone can prove
those things, there is no way to use that
as a basis for qualification.
Just and unjust should be determined by
fact, not religious beliefs.
Daile
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Izzy
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 883
Location: Earth
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Posted: 11-11-04 07:50am
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Dalie do you believe it is right to feed
the hungry?
Cloth the naked?
Help the sick?
If yes.
Why do you believe it is right?
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Daile
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 319
Location: Missouri
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Posted: 11-11-04 07:55am
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Yes, I do believe it is right to feed the
hungry, clothe the naked, and help the
sick. It is not because of any belief in
god or morality. I believe it is right to
do these things because those are people
just like me. It saddens me to know that
some people do not have the same
opportunities as others because of where
they live or how much money they have. I
help people who need help because, if the
situation were reversed, I would want them
to help me. I know what it feels like to
go to bed hungry, or to wear threadbare,
stained clothes. I know what it feels
like to not have shoes that fit, or money
for a doctors appointment. I have lived
that life, and am still living it, so when
I see someone that I have the ability to
help, I help them, because I don't think
anyone should have the kind of life I
do.
Daile
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Izzy
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 883
Location: Earth
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Posted: 11-11-04 11:54am
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So do you think society as a whole should
believe these things as right?
Why?
If you do then why do you think your
ideologies should be forced onto somebody
else shouldnt they be able to decide what
is right and wrong for them by their own
experiences just as you have decided what
is right and wrong for you by your own
experiences?
After you have answered that we will move
things on a bit.
Do you believe it is wrong to discriminate
against people, steel, dishonor people,
sleep with another womans husband, have
intercourse without commited love etc?
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JanetBee
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 332
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Posted: 11-11-04 12:22pm
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Morality is a personal thing -- it is your
own behaviour. It has nothing to do with
imposing rules on other people.
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Izzy
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 883
Location: Earth
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Posted: 11-11-04 12:33pm
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Janetbee thank you for your comment, I was
asking dalie but I will ask you
do you believe helpping the vunrable is an
honorable thing to do?
Do you believe attacking the vunrable is a
dispicable thing to do?
If yes or no, what makes you think this
way?
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bd1012
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 1998
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Posted: 11-11-04 14:24pm
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Man, no doubt, owes many other moral
duties to his fellow men; such as to feed
the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the
homeless, care for the sick, protect the
defenseless, assist the weak, and
enlighten the ignorant. But these are
simply moral duties, of which each man
must be his own judge, in each particular
case, as to whether, and how, and how far,
he can, or will perform them. – lysander
spooner
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Izzy
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 883
Location: Earth
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Posted: 11-11-04 14:35pm
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Then charlie manson is an innocent man!
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2ferano
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 3717
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Posted: 11-11-04 15:43pm
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The elderly and disabled are not
protected? Oh my god! They have more
rights, assistance and benefits than any
of the rest of us! What planet do you
live on, really?
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Izzy
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 883
Location: Earth
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Posted: 11-11-04 18:19pm
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Really hotasfrick then I will ask you a
question - a serious, serious question I
dont want you to answer it on here just
honestly to yourself.....
If things keep going the way they
are....
Are you looking forward to growing old in
this country?
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where_is_the_line
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Posts: 173
Location: USA: NY & DC
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Posted: 11-14-04 18:04pm
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| daile
wrote: | although I would agree that
some laws are unjust, I do not believe
that you're basis for determining which
these are is right. You say it should
be based on the moral law, or the law of
god, but there is no proof that there is a
god, or which god is the true god.
Until someone can prove those things,
there is no way to use that as a basis for
qualification.
Just and unjust should be determined by
fact, not religious beliefs.
Daile |
sorry, I forgot to mention those were
martin luther king's words, excerpts from
his letter from birmingham. So you're not
only disagreeing with me, but martin
luther king's argument used in his civil
rights movement. Who ever said religious
beliefs can't be based on or agree with
fact? And tell me which religion mlk is
specifically endorsing by those words. If
you're uncomfortable with the word "god"
then say the law of nature. This works
because you know first hand nature exists,
and logically if god exists, then god is
the force behind nature.
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where_is_the_line
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Posts: 173
Location: USA: NY & DC
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Posted: 11-14-04 18:31pm
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| janetbee
wrote: | | morality is a personal thing
-- it is your own behaviour. It has
nothing to do with imposing rules on other
people. |
actually, morality is more than just
personal behavior. Morality is rightness
or wrongness with regards to actions or
conduct as well as principles. Are laws
not based on principles, or in fact
principles themselves? A principle is a
fundamental truth, law, etc. Upon which
others are based. So morality actually
does have something to do with imposing
rules on other people. If you do not want
to base laws, at least in part, on
principles of right and wrong, then what
else would you like them to be based on?
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bd1012
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 1998
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Posted: 11-14-04 20:21pm
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Imo.. Laws should only limit behaviors
that hurt other people and infringe other
people's rights. I mean if it doesnt
hurt anybody else if I do heroine and it's
not taking any rights away.. Then why
should I not be able to do it? Not that
I am some druggy or something but I am
just saying. I don't care if something
is morally right or wrong, if I want to do
it and it doesn't cause anyone harm..
Then why not? Do we even really know
right or wrong? We know what is socially
acceptable as right or wrong but is it
right philosophically?
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Izzy
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 883
Location: Earth
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Posted: 11-15-04 08:31am
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"laws should only limit behaviors that
hurt other people and infringe other
people's rights."
well thats a noble thing to say, I am
pleased you agree abortion should be
banned.... Welcome back bd
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bd1012
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 1998
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Posted: 11-15-04 12:29pm
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No izzy.. I am not talking about the
unborn.. They are not people protected
under the law. I am talking about laws
limiting behaviors affecting people
protected under law or the constitution.
You can take back your welcome.
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JanetBee
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 332
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Posted: 11-15-04 12:50pm
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Is it just me, or does anyone else thing
the term "the unborn" is really spooky?
It just implies there's a lot of zombies
waiting to inhabit bodies...Weird.
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Izzy
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 883
Location: Earth
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Posted: 11-15-04 14:51pm
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Tatsp you were talking about what laws
should be based on, then you say your
talking about how "persons" should be
based on the law!
Do any more jumping from one thing to
another and squirming out of things and
you will get a bad name for yourself 
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