Abortion Debate Forum

lil_blaze2004 replied on December 31st, 2004

Supporter

Might be "safer" (in your eyes), but pregnancy is a beautifull thing if you want it. Even with the nausea, and discomfort..... And is usua;;y a very safe thing or the world would not have as many people as it does.

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bd1012 replied on December 31st, 2004

Extremely EHEALTHy

lil_blaze2004 wrote:

might be "safer" (in your eyes), but pregnancy is a beautifull thing if you want it. Even with the nausea, and discomfort..... And is usua;;y a very safe thing or the world would not have as many people as it does.

key words: "if you want it".. Speak for yourself.. Others apparently don't feel that way.. I don't care if you think they should..Truth is they don't.. And they can't help how they feel.. Many people think life is beautiful.. I don't.. I'm not a pessimist.. I just watch the news :wink:

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bd1012 replied on December 31st, 2004

Extremely EHEALTHy

Re: Bd....

jlee77 wrote:

but we don't ask for something like heart surgery. That is the difference. Of course we make the choice to have it....Because chances are if we opt not to and we need it, one will die. But abortion is a choice, nobody tells us we need to get one.

I'm sorry, I cannot agree with you that abortion is safer than pregnancy. No way. And I agree with lil' blaze. Pregnancy is beautiful, abortion is far from it. It's disgusting.

so you are saying if you choose to do something, than the risk doesn't matter.. So long as your not forced to do it.. Well if you had your way.. People would be forced to remain pregnant..So I guess the risks do matter.

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steen replied on December 31st, 2004

Extremely EHEALTHy

lil_blaze2004 wrote:

might be "safer" (in your eyes), but pregnancy is a beautifull thing if you want it.

and if you don't want it, it is a terror that women have been shown to take incredible personal risks to get rid of. An unwanted pregnancy will make women do horrible things to themselves in order to get rid of that pregnancy, as history has and continue to show us. *that* is the issue at hand here. Unwanted pregnancies can safely be terminated through safe, legal abortions, or you can leave the women to despeerate meassures on their own to terminate those pregnancies. Are we for preserving womens health, or are we for letting them maime and kill themselves in their desperation?

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even with the nausea, and discomfort..... And is usua;;y a very safe thing or the world would not have as many people as it does.

you are aware, I hope, that in the 3rd world, the main cause of death for women ages 15-40 are pregnancy complications, right?

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SamiNSunisMa replied on January 1st, 2005

Extremely EHEALTHy

steen wrote:

lil_blaze2004 wrote:

might be "safer" (in your eyes), but pregnancy is a beautifull thing if you want it.

and if you don't want it, it is a terror that women have been shown to take incredible personal risks to get rid of. An unwanted pregnancy will make women do horrible things to themselves in order to get rid of that pregnancy, as history has and continue to show us. *that* is the issue at hand here. Unwanted pregnancies can safely be terminated through safe, legal abortions, or you can leave the women to despeerate meassures on their own to terminate those pregnancies. Are we for preserving womens health, or are we for letting them maime and kill themselves in their desperation?

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even with the nausea, and discomfort..... And is usua;;y a very safe thing or the world would not have as many people as it does.

you are aware, I hope, that in the 3rd world, the main cause of death for women ages 15-40 are pregnancy complications, right?

in the third world, okay steen have you been to the third world. Nah, didnt think so, your statistics are nice, but you can't seem to offer *any* real life experiences of your own!

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bd1012 replied on January 1st, 2005

Extremely EHEALTHy

saminsunisma wrote:

steen wrote:

lil_blaze2004 wrote:

might be "safer" (in your eyes), but pregnancy is a beautifull thing if you want it.

and if you don't want it, it is a terror that women have been shown to take incredible personal risks to get rid of. An unwanted pregnancy will make women do horrible things to themselves in order to get rid of that pregnancy, as history has and continue to show us. *that* is the issue at hand here. Unwanted pregnancies can safely be terminated through safe, legal abortions, or you can leave the women to despeerate meassures on their own to terminate those pregnancies. Are we for preserving womens health, or are we for letting them maime and kill themselves in their desperation?

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even with the nausea, and discomfort..... And is usua;;y a very safe thing or the world would not have as many people as it does.

you are aware, I hope, that in the 3rd world, the main cause of death for women ages 15-40 are pregnancy complications, right?

in the third world, okay steen have you been to the third world. Nah, didnt think so, your statistics are nice, but you can't seem to offer *any* real life experiences of your own!

why do real life experiences matter? You are the one sitting here telling people what to do with their bodys no matter what happens to them during pregnancy without ever experiencing any of the sometimes lilfe threating conditions.. And there is more than pre-e.

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SamiNSunisMa replied on January 1st, 2005

Extremely EHEALTHy

bd1012 wrote:

saminsunisma wrote:

steen wrote:

lil_blaze2004 wrote:

might be "safer" (in your eyes), but pregnancy is a beautifull thing if you want it.

and if you don't want it, it is a terror that women have been shown to take incredible personal risks to get rid of. An unwanted pregnancy will make women do horrible things to themselves in order to get rid of that pregnancy, as history has and continue to show us. *that* is the issue at hand here. Unwanted pregnancies can safely be terminated through safe, legal abortions, or you can leave the women to despeerate meassures on their own to terminate those pregnancies. Are we for preserving womens health, or are we for letting them maime and kill themselves in their desperation?

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even with the nausea, and discomfort..... And is usua;;y a very safe thing or the world would not have as many people as it does.

you are aware, I hope, that in the 3rd world, the main cause of death for women ages 15-40 are pregnancy complications, right?

in the third world, okay steen have you been to the third world. Nah, didnt think so, your statistics are nice, but you can't seem to offer *any* real life experiences of your own!

why do real life experiences matter? You are the one sitting here telling people what to do with their bodys no matter what happens to them during pregnancy without ever experiencing any of the sometimes lilfe threating conditions.. And there is more than pre-e.

ok so only statistics matter... Niiice

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bd1012 replied on January 1st, 2005

Extremely EHEALTHy

No.. I didn't mean they didn't matter.. I know I sounded that way but that's not what I meant it to sound like. What I meant was why was having a life experience a prereq to have a say in certain matters?

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steen replied on January 1st, 2005

Extremely EHEALTHy

saminsunisma wrote:

steen wrote:

you are aware, I hope, that in the 3rd world, the main cause of death for women ages 15-40 are pregnancy complications, right?

in the third world, okay steen have you been to the third world. Nah, didnt think so, your statistics are nice, but you can't seem to offer *any* real life experiences of your own!

as a matter of fact, yes I have been in the 3rd world, and yes I have seen the "womens' ward" for those with botched abortions.

And how fascinating that you discard so much suffering and death as "statistics." guess you don't give a damn about real women.

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Newmommy23 replied on January 1st, 2005

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

I have been to third world countries as well and seen more successful pregnancies then death from them. A botched abortion is not a matter for the government in my opinion. If you chose to have an abortion then you should have to deal with the consequences and the same with pregnancy. I do not think a choice should be made a right. These are my opinions and no I have no compassion for a women who has a frivolous abortion. Pregnancy is a consequence of sex and death or illness is a consequence of a botched abortion! Life has consequences but should law intervene?

On a different note. Steen you must have a horrible practice because you sure are on here alot! What kind of doctor are you? Why is it that a man lurks on the pregnancy and abortion forums? Pregnancy is not your concern considering you have no clue!!

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msrosie replied on January 2nd, 2005

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

lil_blaze2004 wrote:

might be "safer" (in your eyes), but pregnancy is a beautifull thing if you want it. Even with the nausea, and discomfort..... And is usua;;y a very safe thing or the world would not have as many people as it does.

key words there - "if you want it". I do not want to be pregnant, and I see nothing beautiful about it.

Rosie

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steen replied on January 2nd, 2005

Extremely EHEALTHy

newmommy23 wrote:

i have been to third world countries as well and seen more successful pregnancies then death from them.

yes, of course. That is true all over. If more than hal of all pregnnacies ended in the woman's death, the population would decline, that's simple math.

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a botched abortion is not a matter for the government in my opinion.

oh, you don't believe in regulating medical procedures. Ok.

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i do not think a choice should be made a right.

very well, we will then remove your "choice" to not donate blood as there should not be a right to withold your blood from somebody dying. Guess you are then in favor of being forced to give blood and whatever bodily resources can safely be extracted from you.

To each their own, but somehow I don't think that you would quietly go and give up a kidney merely because you are ordered to do so in order to save a life. Am I right?

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these are my opinions

yup, we have no doubt of that.

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... And no I have no compassion for a women who has a frivolous abortion.

a "frivilous" abortion" oh, the kind where "i'll just go and get my hair and nails done. Oh, and while I am out, why don't I just slip in and get an abortion as well. I hear thay are on special this week." a "frivilous" abortion is a silly concept. It is no more "frivilous" that is any other medical procedure.

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pregnancy is a consequence of sex

this is a false claim, as people have sex without becomming pregnant. Rather, pregnnacy is one possible outcome from having sex, just like having a traffic accident is one possible outcome from driving.

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and death or illness is a consequence of a botched abortion!

a "botched abortion." where do you get these ideas from? Abortion happens to be not only the most *common* surgical procedure in the us, but also the *safest.* and the "consequense" of a botched abortion is medical care to rectify the problem just as it is the case for any other medical procedure that goes awry.

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life has consequences but should law intervene?

yes, if you drive and get into an accident, should the satte insist that you have access to medical care? Obviously you don't think so.

So we'll close down all the er departments and really most of the hospitals as well, right? Or are you rather saying that all medical care should be available, except to women who have abortions? If *that* is what you are saying, then you can take your pick of being called either a hypocrite or a misogynist, or you can have the 2-for-one special and be both.

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on a different note. Steen you must have a horrible practice because you sure are on here alot!

i just have a lot of vacation time saved up and am doing a lot of half-days. And it is around christmas and newyear now as well, so the clinic is closed. But thanks for your concern about my practice

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what kind of doctor are you? Why is it that a man lurks on the pregnancy and abortion forums?

ah, yes. Shame on me for coming in here and wreck your perfectly poor arguments.

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pregnancy is not your concern considering you have no clue!!

why is it that pro-lifers always are so desperate to shut up diverging views? Is your position so weak that it only can be kept going if you get to pontificate without any criticism of your claims? What kind of weak foundation is it you are building your case on?

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SamiNSunisMa replied on January 11th, 2005

Extremely EHEALTHy

steen wrote:

saminsunisma wrote:

steen wrote:

you are aware, I hope, that in the 3rd world, the main cause of death for women ages 15-40 are pregnancy complications, right?

in the third world, okay steen have you been to the third world. Nah, didnt think so, your statistics are nice, but you can't seem to offer *any* real life experiences of your own!

as a matter of fact, yes I have been in the 3rd world, and yes I have seen the "womens' ward" for those with botched abortions.

And how fascinating that you discard so much suffering and death as "statistics." guess you don't give a damn about real women.

what u give are numbers. You dont say how in some countries they abort by massaging the stomach for weeks hoping to cause miscarriage, sometimes it doesn't even work and there is a child with severe disability discarded or killed. Ive seen india, ever been to potna? Yeah, that's where my fiance was born and spent almost 4 years of his life. He may have been young but he lived there 24/7 in the poverty which is more than "visiting the women's wards" does. I give a damn about real women, but numbers are numbers.

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bd1012 replied on January 11th, 2005

Extremely EHEALTHy

You care about woman? Oh that's right.. You care about them as long as they fit into your moral standards.. Otherwise they can rot in hell.

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steen replied on January 11th, 2005

Extremely EHEALTHy

saminsunisma wrote:

what u give are numbers. You dont say how in some countries they abort by massaging the stomach for weeks hoping to cause miscarriage, sometimes it doesn't even work and there is a child with severe disability discarded or killed. Ive seen india, ever been to potna? Yeah, that's where my fiance was born and spent almost 4 years of his life. He may have been young but he lived there 24/7 in the poverty which is more than "visiting the women's wards" does. I give a damn about real women, but numbers are numbers.

ah, so you know of the desperation of abortions in the 3rd world, yet try to make light of it?

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FISHX replied on January 12th, 2005

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

[quote="steen"][quote="saminsunisma"]

steen wrote:

you are aware, I hope, that in the 3rd world, the main cause of death for women ages 15-40 are pregnancy complications, right?

and yet you support the use of methotrexate which the manafacturers have stated can and has caused deaths through toxic absorbsion. How do you explain your views on this doctor ? If you are against posible death due to pregnancy are you not against posible death due to medication that is sometimes used in first trimester terminations?
Are you really pro choice or just anti pregnancy ?

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SamiNSunisMa replied on January 12th, 2005

Extremely EHEALTHy

bd1012 wrote:

you care about woman? Oh that's right.. You care about them as long as they fit into your moral standards.. Otherwise they can rot in hell.

what moral standards? I have few to be honest look at my life now and my past, and as for abortion, I have friends who were "side hos" and aborted more than once, did I ditch them? Nah, so dont tell me I think im all high and mighty and moral.

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steen replied on January 12th, 2005

Extremely EHEALTHy

fishx wrote:

and yet you support the use of methotrexate which the manafacturers have stated can and has caused deaths through toxic absorbsion.

in the high doses used for arthritis. And the "abortion" where mtx is used is that of ectopic pregnancies. Amazing that you think women should die from the ectopic pregnancy in stead, stinking misogynist.

Oh, and, stinking liar, you have yet to document any woman ever dying from mtx in connection with any kind of abortion.

So, stinking liar, exactly what deaths is it I am supporting?

Yup, as usual, all that prolife have to offer are lies and distortions. No surprise there, business as usual for the misogynistic fundie morons.

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how do you explain your views on this doctor ?

by supporting a non-surgical and safe method of terminating ectopic pregnancies. That you obviously wish for women to die from ectopic pregnancies is no surprise, you stinking misogynist.

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if you are against posible death due to pregnancy are you not against posible death due to medication that is sometimes used in first trimester terminations?

really? Mtx is used for pregnancy termination other than ectopic pregnancies? Care to show the unbiased, medical documentation for that? Nah, because you are as usual lying, creep.

And then there is your claim of possible death from terminating these ectopic pregnancies? Nah, no evidence there either, stinking liar.

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are you really pro choice or just anti pregnancy ?

person liar, it is called prochoice because we support the woman's right to chose. I have never spoken out against pregnancies, despite your typical lies.

Prolifers nearly always lie. Why is that? Is that what you learn in fundie misogyni school?

What creeps you all are, you disgusting lying misogynists.

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FISHX replied on January 13th, 2005

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

steen wrote:

fishx wrote:

and yet you support the use of methotrexate which the manafacturers have stated can and has caused deaths through toxic absorbsion.

in the high doses used for arthritis. And the "abortion" where mtx is used is that of ectopic pregnancies. Amazing that you think women should die from the ectopic pregnancy in stead, stinking misogynist.

Did I say that? Please show where.

Oh, and, stinking liar, you have yet to document any woman ever dying from mtx in connection with any kind of abortion.

Steen why do you ask for evidence in one thread and then post in a completly diffrent thread to avoid evidence?

So, stinking liar, exactly what deaths is it I am supporting?

Why do you insist on belittling youeself with insults?
Is it because you do,nt really like evidence?
I am not opposed to methotrexate because it is used in terminations but because it kills people.

Yup, as usual, all that prolife have to offer are lies and distortions. No surprise there, business as usual for the misogynistic fundie morons

i have posted the relavent links on the original thread (are women dying to terminate). But you already knew that did,nt you doctor :wink: ?

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how do you explain your views on this doctor ?

by supporting a non-surgical and safe method of terminating ectopic pregnancies. That you obviously wish for women to die from ectopic pregnancies is no surprise, you stinking misogynist.

I do,nt want women to die through any pregnancy please show where I said that.

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if you are against posible death due to pregnancy are you not against posible death due to medication that is sometimes used in first trimester terminations?

really? Mtx is used for pregnancy termination other than ectopic pregnancies? Care to show the unbiased, medical documentation for that? Nah, because you are as usual lying, creep.

Of course doctor relavet link is in the original thread please do say if you need more.

And then there is your claim of possible death from terminating these ectopic pregnancies? Nah, no evidence there either, stinking liar.

Sorry doctor but that is an outright lie I havent even mentioned eptopic pregnancy you did.

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are you really pro choice or just anti pregnancy ?

person liar, it is called prochoice because we support the woman's right to chose. I have never spoken out against pregnancies, despite your typical lies.

Your posts constantly rant on the dangers of pregnancy and the complications but I have never seen you inform people of the complications of termination. If your going to inform on one then you really should inform on the other do,nt you think?

Prolifers nearly always lie. Why is that? Is that what you learn in fundie misogyni school?

You really would have to ask a prolifer .

What creeps you all are, you disgusting lying misogynists.

why thank you doctor really mature do,nt you think?
So have you got the evidence that I asked for ie: 100% proof that the said pro life sites are lies?

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