Question,do you trust politicians to make
decisions on abortion issues?.
This question applies to all politicians
whether they be for or against abortion.
Question,should we trust a doctor who
stands to make money from abortion?.
Please try to keep answers informed and
leave the insults at the door everyone
thanx.
|
bd1012
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 31 May 2004 Posts: 1998
Posted: 01-07-05 09:38am
Are you kidding me?? Hell no!!! Unless
you are me or are a docter you're opinion
about my health your advice means nothing.
|
msrosie
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 369 Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks: 12
Thanked:2
Re: Politicians V Doctors Posted: 01-07-05 09:52am
meagainstthewotld
wrote:
question,do you trust
politicians to make decisions on abortion
issues?.
no.
Quote:
question,should
we trust a doctor who stands to make money
from abortion?.
should we trust a doctor who stands to
make money from heart surgery?
Rosie
|
meagainstthewotld
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 76 Location: planet me
Re: Politicians V Doctors Posted: 01-07-05 12:11pm
msrosie
wrote:
meagainstthewotld
wrote:
question,do you trust
politicians to make decisions on abortion
issues?.
no.
Quote:
question,should
we trust a doctor who stands to make money
from abortion?.
should we trust a doctor who stands to
make money from heart surgery?
Rosie
so rosie you will trust a doctor
inexplicably but not a duely elected
representive,even though you again
answered a question with a question.
By the way theres a big difference between
heart surgery and abortion,due to the fact
that heart surgery is always performed to
prolong the life and health of the
patient,can the same be said for
abortion.Are you going to try and say that
every abortion performed is to save the
womans life.We do not trust politicians
because they might have hidden
agendas,fair enough politicians do lie,
badly most of the time.But the same can be
said for doctors a politician lies to get
votes a doctor lies to get money and
prestige in there chosen field{ie p.B.A.
Is a doctor going to admit to performing
what is basically an illegal operation or
will he lie to save himself} if you think
back think about all the doctors done for
abusing their position or even dr harold
shipman englands most infamous serial
killer.So tell me should we just trust a
doctor?
|
meagainstthewotld
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 76 Location: planet me
Posted: 01-07-05 12:18pm
bd1012
wrote:
are you kidding me?? Hell
no!!! Unless you are me or are a docter
you're opinion about my health your advice
means
nothing.
to be honest bd I have no opinion on your
health ,then again I may have taken your
answer wrong, if I have I
apologise.Politicians lie we all know that
but so do doctors weve all heard the
storys of people misdiagnosed or blatantly
lied to by the medical profession.So I am
quite surprised that some one as informed
as you usually are bd would just trust
totally a doctor.
|
bd1012
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 31 May 2004 Posts: 1998
Posted: 01-07-05 13:11pm
This is not about whether or not whether
doctors do lie.. It's about politicians
vs doctors.. And I would believe a doctor
over a politician anyday even if that
doctor has a bad rep..
Comparitively that is.
|
msrosie
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 369 Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks: 12
Thanked:2
Re: Politicians V Doctors Posted: 01-07-05 14:13pm
meagainstthewotld
wrote:
so rosie you will trust a doctor
inexplicably but not a duely elected
representive,even though you again
answered a question with a
question.
i never said I trust a doctor
"inexplicably".
Quote:
by the way theres
a big difference between heart surgery and
abortion,due to the fact that heart
surgery is always performed to prolong the
life and health of the patient,can the
same be said for
abortion.
it can be said that abortion is performed
to improve the quality of life for the
woman. And it could very well save her
life, since pregnancy is riskier for
her.
Rosie
|
meagainstthewotld
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 76 Location: planet me
Re: Politicians V Doctors Posted: 01-07-05 14:28pm
msrosie
wrote:
meagainstthewotld
wrote:
so rosie you will trust a doctor
inexplicably but not a duely elected
representive,even though you again
answered a question with a
question.
i never said I trust a doctor
"inexplicably".
Quote:
by the way theres
a big difference between heart surgery and
abortion,due to the fact that heart
surgery is always performed to prolong the
life and health of the patient,can the
same be said for
abortion.
it can be said that abortion is performed
to improve the quality of life for the
woman. And it could very well save her
life, since pregnancy is riskier for
her.
Rosie
riskier than what heart surgery
|
msrosie
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 369 Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks: 12
Thanked:2
Re: Politicians V Doctors Posted: 01-07-05 14:29pm
meagainstthewotld
wrote:
riskier than what heart
surgery
oh, good grief. Pregnancy is riskier than
legal first trimester abortion.
Rosie
|
meagainstthewotld
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 76 Location: planet me
Re: Politicians V Doctors Posted: 01-07-05 14:33pm
msrosie
wrote:
meagainstthewotld
wrote:
riskier than what heart
surgery
oh, good grief. Pregnancy is riskier
than legal first trimester abortion.
Rosie
i am sorry but I do not believe that
statement,if that was the case, would not
doctors be advising every woman who got
pregnant to abort because it is less
risky.
Have you got any reliable proof to base
that statement on.
|
meagainstthewotld
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 76 Location: planet me
Posted: 01-07-05 14:35pm
bd1012
wrote:
this is not about whether or
not whether doctors do lie.. It's about
politicians vs doctors.. And I would
believe a doctor over a politician anyday
even if that doctor has a bad rep..
Comparitively that
is.
my point is that we do not trust
politicians because they lie,so do doctors
as is proven I believe.
|
msrosie
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 369 Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks: 12
Thanked:2
Re: Politicians V Doctors Posted: 01-07-05 17:48pm
meagainstthewotld
wrote:
i am sorry but I do not believe that
statement,if that was the case, would not
doctors be advising every woman who got
pregnant to abort because it is less
risky.
Have you got any reliable proof to base
that statement
on.
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-08-05 00:25am
meagainstthewotld
wrote:
msrosie
wrote:
oh, good grief. Pregnancy
is riskier than legal first trimester
abortion.
i am sorry but I do not
believe that statement,if that was the
case, would not doctors be advising every
woman who got pregnant to abort because
it is less risky.
Have you got any reliable proof to base
that statement
on.
cdc and hhs both have the
statistics. In the us, 300-500 women die
from pregnacy every year, while 3-8 die
from abortions every year. Abortions are
*much* safer than giving birth. Do you
need the references to the data as well?
|
meagainstthewotld
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 76 Location: planet me
Posted: 01-08-05 07:38am
steen
wrote:
meagainstthewotld
wrote:
msrosie
wrote:
oh, good grief.
Pregnancy is riskier than legal first
trimester
abortion.
i am sorry but I do not
believe that statement,if that was the
case, would not doctors be advising every
woman who got pregnant to abort because
it is less risky.
Have you got any reliable proof to base
that statement
on.
cdc and hhs both have the
statistics. In the us, 300-500 women
die from pregnacy every year, while 3-8
die from abortions every year.
Abortions are *much* safer than giving
birth. Do you need the references to
the data as
well?
steen I see that your criteria changes in
relation to death through childbirth than
to death due to abortion.Your figures for
death from childbirth is from conception
to a year after giving birth.Whereas your
figures for death due to abortion does
not.Why have you not included the suicides
for the year after,i wonder if it might be
because they dont make your argument
stronger but make it weaker.
8 year suicide rate per 100,000
delivered a child 19.1%
had an abortion 63%.
This proves that you have lied in your
posts about the mental effects on the
patient.
Your figures also include women who
recieved no pre natal care,a fact which
makes them 3-4 times more likley to die.
You also forgot to mention the fact that,
suckers by surgeon general koops letter to
ronald reagan,in response to a
presidential directive to study the
effects on women who have had
abortions,that half the abortions done in
america are done in free standing clinics
which do not keep complete records.Also
the fact that 50% of women who have had an
abortion denied it when asked
officially.
I can see from other posts you have made a
distinct lack of truth when you talk about
the after effects {physical and mental}
such has infertility,damaged cervix and a
tendancy to miscarry or deliver
premature.I notice you also fail to state
that it is well documented that when a
woman carrys and delivers,whether it be
wanted or unwanted,there is a low
incidence of mental health problems.
Finally in relation to the amount of
pregnancys in america to the amount of
abortions and deaths therefore associated
with,the percentages make the figures
nominal at least.
-
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-08-05 09:20am
meagainstthewotld
wrote:
steen
wrote:
meagainstthewotld
wrote:
msrosie
wrote:
oh, good grief.
Pregnancy is riskier than legal first
trimester
abortion.
i am sorry but I do not
believe that statement,if that was the
case, would not doctors be advising every
woman who got pregnant to abort because
it is less risky.
Have you got any reliable proof to base
that statement
on.
cdc and hhs both have the
statistics. In the us, 300-500 women
die from pregnacy every year, while 3-8
die from abortions every year.
Abortions are *much* safer than giving
birth. Do you need the references to
the data as
well?
steen I see that your criteria changes in
relation to death through childbirth than
to death due to
abortion.
please do not make
misrepresentations of my viewws and I
won't call you a liar. How is that? So
retract that crap.
Quote:
your figures for
death from childbirth is from conception
to a year after giving birth.Whereas your
figures for death due to abortion does
not.
as I said, a lie.
Quote:
why have you not
included the suicides for the year after,i
wonder if it might be because they dont
make your argument stronger but make it
weaker.
bwahahahahaha. Yup,
reardon's claptrap finland study. Funny
how, if there was such a surge of
suicides, mental health professionals
would have to be on alert all the time.
Guess what, there isn't. I have no
intention of going into the 5000-word
evaluation of the many ways reardon
presented his lies and misrepresentations,
but here is a trick for you if you want to
learn statistics. "correlation is not
causation."
Quote:
8 year suicide rate per 100,000
delivered a child 19.1%
had an abortion 63%.
This proves that you have lied in your
posts about the mental effects on the
patient.
I lied, did i? Here
is the challenge to you. Please claim
that reardon's numbers prove that
abortions *cause* women to commit suicide
4-3 times as often as women in general.
The I will be most pleased to expose you
as an outright liar. You really need to
evaluate studies for bias and ommission
before using them to accuse others.
Particularly when the authors have a
deliberately political agenda. You
obviously have no clue what peer-review
means in science <snort>
please provide the scientific reference
source of your numbers and we can pick
your lies apart.
But then, the style of your posts have
been typocal anti-choice deceptions and
misrepresentations so far, so there is no
reason to expect that you changed.
Quote:
your figures also
include women who recieved no pre natal
care,a fact which makes them 3-4 times
more likley to
die.
and if you start
providing prenatal care to all these
women, some of the mortality will drop off
yes. When the reality of prenatal care
reaches these women, the mortality will
drop somewhat, but until then, those
numbers are the actual reality we live
under, that giving birth is *much* more
lethal than having an abortion,
anti-choice lies none withstanding.
Quote:
you also forgot
to mention the fact that, suckers by
surgeon general koops letter to ronald
reagan,in response to a presidential
directive to study the effects on women
who have had abortions,that half the
abortions done in america are done in free
standing clinics which do not keep
complete
records.
a false claim. Any
clinic has to keep records by federal
law.
Quote:
also the fact
that 50% of women who have had an abortion
denied it when asked
officially.
and you obviously never
actually looked at the numbers from these
agencies and from the mmrw as they are not
based on whether women said they had
abortions or not, but rather on clinic
data, death certificates and similar. So
your "fact" is irrelevant.
Quote:
i can see from
other posts you have made a distinct lack
of truth when you talk about the after
effects {physical and mental} such has
infertility,
minimal with abortion,
significant enough to be a major focus of
prenatal care prevention when giving
birth. Once again, anti-choicers seek to
misrepresent their desire to see women
suffer more by going through childbirth
than by having an abortion (see, I can do
that hyperbole stuff just as well as you
can, liar).
Quote:
damaged
cervix
quite the rsik in
childbirth, much more than from an
abortion. And interestingly enough, if
you had any concern for the woman's
cervix, then you would embrace the *intact
dilation and extraction* method of
abortion as it is minimizing the potential
amage to the cervix. Yet you don't,
showing what a hypocrite you are.
Quote:
and a tendancy to
miscarry or deliver
premature.
there is no such
tendency. You are lying.
Quote:
i notice you also
fail to state that it is well documented
that when a woman carrys and
delivers,whether it be wanted or
unwanted,there is a low incidence of
mental health
problems.
the incidence of
post-partum depression is 12-15% the
incidence of post-partum psychosis is 0.5%
that's a pretty high number, your lies
aside.
Quote:
finally in
relation to the amount of pregnancys in
america to the amount of abortions and
deaths therefore associated with,the
percentages make the figures nominal at
least.
so you are either so dumb
or so dishonest that I have to specify the
details for you? Very well:
300-500 deaths from 4.5 mill births:
66-111 deaths/million births
3-8 deaths from 1.1 mill abortions: 2-7
deaths/million abortions
any other lies you want to spew?
I have no problem debating abortion. But
the incessant anti-choce lies arwe
disgusting. You guys are disgusting
rotten crooks and should be ashamed of the
massive amount of "false witness" you
spew, spitting god in the eye every time.
|
meagainstthewotld
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 76 Location: planet me
Posted: 01-08-05 11:05am
Steen first of all if you are a doctor you
need to be struck off,do you really
believe that your attack on me makes your
post anymore credible.How surprising that
another study is called lies by dr
steen.
You call me a liar without any proof
presented what so ever,very professional
of you that,but with your tendency to
ignore or attack other posters facts I am
not surprised.You are the great conspiricy
theorist,everything done that doesnt match
your idea is lies mistruth.So troll next
time you wish to attack me proof is
required I have proved you lied with facts
whether you believe them or not,they are
still facts.As to where my facts come from
most from the site you sent me to,some
from the letter itself and the rest from
pregnancy in america.
Steen a basic grasp of literacy would also
help your posts try merriams or
webbsters.Now will you prove that you are
not a troll or will you once again prove
your hypocrisy.
Where have I said I am pro anything steen
show me and stop trying to lie and inflame
an allready emotionally charged subject.
Now go away and think about your lies and
decietfull ways, and come back when you
are capable of adult rational debate and
not stoop to your childish ways because
you feel inadequate.
Once again I reiterate please leave the
insults at the door
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-08-05 16:49pm
meagainstthewotld
wrote:
I have proved you lied with
facts
you must be the most
stupid and ignorant fool here after jlee.
You did not present any evidence or fact
and no supportive evidence. All we have
is your "because I say so" with no
reference or confirmation. So exactly
what was your "proof"?
And yes, I will certainly have no problem
proving my data. However, per having
been burned by so many pro-lifers before,
I must insist first that you promise to
look at the data and adhere to them unless
you can disprove them. Otherwise, why
the heck should I bother.
Quote:
whether you
believe them or not,they are still
facts.
so you say. You
"forgot" to provide the evidence.
Quote:
as to where my
facts come from most from the site you
sent me to,
which one?
Quote:
some from the
letter itself
please reference it.
Quote:
and the rest
from pregnancy in
america.
is that a book? What is
its scientific credentials and its assured
political independence?
Quote:
steen a basic
grasp of literacy would also help your
posts
oh, where was I wrong?
Or are you going to sweep this under the
rug in typical anti-choice fashion,
ignoring challenges to what you can not
prove or where you lied?
Quote:
try merriams or
webbsters.
for what word? This
doesn't go back to "ilk," does it? Just
because you apparently is undereducated?
Quote:
now will you
prove that you are not a troll or will you
once again prove your
hypocrisy.
by gushing over your
unproven allegations as if they were the
facts that you so lyingly claimed?
Quote:
where have I said
I am pro anything
steen
you haven't. So what?
Quote:
show me and stop
trying to lie and inflame an allready
emotionally charged
subject.
how about you stopping
lying and admit that your very first post
here was a flat-out attack on me.
No? To copwardly? To much of a lying
scumbag?
Quote:
now go away and
think about your lies and decietfull ways,
and come back when you are capable of
adult rational debate and not stoop to
your childish ways because you feel
inadequate.
stop talking to your
mirror.
Quote:
once again I
reiterate please leave the insults at the
door
amazing hypocricy, given
the post you presented as your very first
post here.
So you lie, you are a hypocrite and you
attack others for what you started. Nice
going there, creep. I don't owe you one
incredibly' thing until you appologize for
your first post, hypocritical morom
|
meagainstthewotld
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 76 Location: planet me
Posted: 01-08-05 17:30pm
steen
wrote:
meagainstthewotld
wrote:
I have proved you lied with
facts
you must be the most
stupid and ignorant fool here after jlee.
You did not present any evidence or fact
and no supportive evidence. All we have
is your "because I say so" with no
reference or confirmation. So exactly
what was your "proof"?
And yes, I will certainly have no problem
proving my data. However, per having
been burned by so many pro-lifers before,
I must insist first that you promise to
look at the data and adhere to them unless
you can disprove them. Otherwise, why
the heck should I bother.
Quote:
whether you
believe them or not,they are still
facts.
so you say. You
"forgot" to provide the evidence.
Quote:
as to where my
facts come from most from the site you
sent me to,
which one?
Quote:
some from the
letter itself
please reference it.
Quote:
and the rest
from pregnancy in
america.
is that a book? What
is its scientific credentials and its
assured political independence?
Quote:
steen a basic
grasp of literacy would also help your
posts
oh, where was I wrong?
Or are you going to sweep this under the
rug in typical anti-choice fashion,
ignoring challenges to what you can not
prove or where you lied?
Quote:
try merriams or
webbsters.
for what word? This
doesn't go back to "ilk," does it? Just
because you apparently is undereducated?
Quote:
now will you
prove that you are not a troll or will you
once again prove your
hypocrisy.
by gushing over your
unproven allegations as if they were the
facts that you so lyingly claimed?
Quote:
where have I said
I am pro anything
steen
you haven't. So
what?
Quote:
show me and stop
trying to lie and inflame an allready
emotionally charged
subject.
how about you stopping
lying and admit that your very first post
here was a flat-out attack on me.
No? To copwardly? To much of a lying
scumbag?
Quote:
now go away and
think about your lies and decietfull ways,
and come back when you are capable of
adult rational debate and not stoop to
your childish ways because you feel
inadequate.
stop talking to your
mirror.
Quote:
once again I
reiterate please leave the insults at the
door
amazing hypocricy, given
the post you presented as your very first
post here.
So you lie, you are a hypocrite and you
attack others for what you started.
Nice going there, creep. I don't owe
you one incredibly' thing until you
appologize for your first post,
hypocritical
morom
steen you are the most annoying little man
I have ever had the misfortune to come
across.Are you really so stupid how was my
first post about whether we trust a
politician or a doctor an outright attack
on you,you really do have an ego problem.I
think the word you were looking for steen
is person, has in my last post, I thought
you would understand,but maybe the words
were to hard for you.I will break it down
for you <you need to learn how to
spell.Are you that arrogant you cannot see
your own mistakes.
You accused me of being anti choice where
did I say that, answer the question.As for
the site it was the one you posted cdc I
think it was.
So troll are you going to continue in your
ignorant way or change but then again I
think not,you are far to arrogant to admit
you are ever wrong.
Your insults are repetitive and down right
crass.
As for hypocrisy I am surprised you can
even spell the word let alone know what it
means.You are the biggest hypocrite on
this forum or any other for that matter.
Pregnancy in america is a web site and
just the facts was were the letter from
koops to reagen,oh but I forget you do not
believe what he wrote anyway.I also told
you where I got the facts are you
completely illlterate or just totally
stupid.
As for me being undereducated I dont think
so,how arrogant again of you to presume to
know my education qualifications,you would
be surprised at what I attained during my
education.
So next time think twice before insulting
me troll and grow up.
|
meagainstthewotld
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 76 Location: planet me
Posted: 01-08-05 17:34pm
By the way dr steen your figures are wrong
try 6 million pregnancys and 857 thousand
terminations.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-08-05 18:39pm
meagainstthewotld
wrote:
steen you are the most
annoying little man I have ever had the
misfortune to come
across.
really? Just because I
challenge anti-choice lies? Well, I
guess from your point of view that could
be annoying yes. But there is a simple
fix. If pro-life stops their incessant
lies, then I won't have any lies to
challenge. How is that for a solution?
Quote:
are you really so
stupid how was my first post about whether
we trust a politician or a doctor an
outright attack on you,you really do have
an ego
problem.
"..I have read posts from a *doctor* who
is happy to accuse people .."
and so on, for 24 lines.
There is your first post, a direct attack
against me. So what was it you were
saying cowardly and hypocritical liar?
Or did you want to apologize for your
starting the attacks? What was that? I
can't quite hear you.
Quote:
you accused me of
being anti choice where did I say that,
answer the
question.
and as I pointed out,
just because you cowardly try to hide your
true conviction, doesn't mean that it
doesn't clearly come through in your
posts. But here is your chance to prove
me wrong.
Tell us that you are not pro-life.
No? You can not deny that? Well,
golly-gee what a surprise. If you don't
want to be known as pro-life, don’t post
as pro-life.
Quote:
as for the site
it was the one you posted cdc I think it
was.
and what, specifically,
came from that site? You mentioned
several sources. Care to clarify what
came from where, and based on what text?
Or are you hoping that as long as you are
vague enough, you won't have to be
responsible for what you post? You are
not a coward, are you?
Quote:
your insults are
repetitive and down right
crass.
incessant pro-life lies,
deceptions and misleading falsehoods are
downright insulting and crass. Care to
tell us why you support them and defend
them?
Quote:
as for hypocrisy
I am surprised you can even spell the word
let alone know what it means.You are the
biggest hypocrite on this forum or any
other for that
matter.
ah yes. Merely because
you say so, right? Your accusations are
remarkable spare on specifics. Vague
allegations and deceptions, of course, are
some of the things that pro-life liars do
best. Care to show me how you differ
from them?
Quote:
pregnancy in
america is a web
site
so you say. It is
customary to link to the sites as
reference (least you want to be known as a
plagiarist as well). I tried http://www.Pregnancyinamerica
.Com/ and interestingly enough, it
didn't load. So you will have to do a
lot better than that. Please link to the
site so we personally can assure our self
that it is a factually correct and
accurate site and not just another
pro-life pro-lie site. Why so hesitant
to provide the data?
Quote:
and just the
facts was were the letter from koops to
reagen,oh but I forget you do not believe
what he wrote
anyway.
well, I will first want
to see that letter (again something you
forgot to link to. Seemingly, you want
us to believe you on your word? Sorry,
but pro-life has long ago lost such a
privilege through their incessant and
constant lies.)
Quote:
i also told you
where I got the
facts
well, you alleged this.
Show us.
Quote:
as for me being
undereducated I dont think so,how arrogant
again of you to presume to know my
education qualifications,you would be
surprised at what I attained during my
education.
well, obviously what you
attained was not knowledge in these
areas.
Quote:
so next time
think twice before insulting me troll and
grow up.
hey, when you insult me
(see above link) you should expect the
same back, cowardly hypocrite who is to
scared to stand by your own words. How
lame.
