Should doctors stop using methotrexate in terminations?
yes they should stop
62%
[ 5 ]
no they should,nt
37%
[ 3 ]
Total Votes : 8
Author
Message
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-28-05 12:35pm
fishx
wrote:
hey knob head my post speaks
for itself or are you claiming to know
more about methotrexate than the
manufacturer how surprisingly arrogant of
you doctor.
ah, person stinking liar,
the manufacturer nowhere stated that there
was a risk of women dying from using mtx
for abortions. Prove your stinking lie,
why don't you. No? Yeppers, no big
surprise there. You *always* lie.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-28-05 12:37pm
foreverblue
wrote:
you are so stupid you
continue to call me an illiterate
person
since you always
misrepresent my posts, you are either
lying or illiterate. So you are saying
that you are not illiterate? Then you
must be a habitual liar instead. Yes,
that's actually quite typical for
prolifers, so I am not surprised.
Quote:
i said prochoice
commit violence,you called me a
liar,
no I didn't, so yes you
*are* a liar.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-28-05 12:40pm
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
the commandment "thou shall
not kill" ( exodus 20:13; deuteronomy
5:17), is better understood to mean "you
shall not homicide," most modern
translations of the bible rendered it this
way. According to the bible not all
killing, the taking of a life, is not a
nice act. homicide is the unlawfully
taking of human life. the command not
to homicide applies to human beings, not
to killing animals or plant life for food.
God gave animals to mankind for his use
( genesis 1:26-30; 9:1-4).
....
thanks for clarifying.
Those stinking liars surely wouldn't
accept a fact from me, so perhaps from you
it will give them pause in their incessant
lies and misrepresentations of god's holy
word.
|
lil_blaze2004
Supporter
Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: ,
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-28-05 12:47pm
Methotrexate or "m&m" (5 to 9 weeks):
methotrexate is normally used for
treatment of certain cancers, rheumatoid
arthritis, and certain dermatological
conditions. it is not approved for abortions by
the fda. this drug is given by
injection; it interferes with the growth
process of rapidly dividing cells. Like
ru-486, it is followed by misoprostol
(hence the "m&m" nickname) to expel
the fetus. This method fails at least 4%
of the time. Methotrexate can potentially
cause serious side effects, including
severe anemia, ulcers and bone marrow
depression. (see box below)
the medical director of planned parenthood
of new york, Dr. Hakim elahi indicated
the side effects were so unpredictable he
would not use it as an abortion drug in
any dose. In a letter to the editors of
the new york times (april 8, 1996, at p.
A14), abortion provider don sloan warned
that methotrexate can produce severe
anemias, ulcers, and bone marrow
depressions that can be fatal, even at the
doses used for abortion and said
"many of us in the abortion trade, as I
am, are recoiling at the stark
irresponsibility of those who are parading
this medication in such cavalier fashion."
source: "existing drugs induced abortions
but some warn about toxicity," newsday
(new york), p. 7, 10/22/1993
|
lil_blaze2004
Supporter
Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: ,
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-28-05 12:48pm
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
the commandment "thou shall
not kill" ( exodus 20:13; deuteronomy
5:17), is better understood to mean "you
shall not homicide," most modern
translations of the bible rendered it this
way. According to the bible not all
killing, the taking of a life, is not a
nice act. homicide is the unlawfully
taking of human life. the command not
to homicide applies to human beings, not
to killing animals or plant life for food.
God gave animals to mankind for his use
( genesis 1:26-30; 9:1-4).
....
thanks for clarifying.
Those stinking liars surely wouldn't
accept a fact from me, so perhaps from you
it will give them pause in their incessant
lies and misrepresentations of god's holy
word.
i also posted this to show that killing
animals for food is not the same as
abortions at all!!!!!
|
foreverblue
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 577
Posted: 01-28-05 13:14pm
steen
wrote:
foreverblue
wrote:
you are so stupid you
continue to call me an illiterate
person
since you always
misrepresent my posts, you are either
lying or illiterate. So you are saying
that you are not illiterate? Then you
must be a habitual liar instead. Yes,
that's actually quite typical for
prolifers, so I am not surprised.
person I dont misrepresent your posts I
just say what you wrote and I quote your
complete post so what a joke you are
turning into it is so easy to prove your
lies,but you are so dumb you continue to
try and wriggle out of it, like the snake
you are.Do you know what illiterate means
slimeball racist pig,i can read and I can
write,whereas you cannot,so you
intellagence deficiant person it is you
not me who is illiterate,god man your
pathetic attempts at trying to lie make me
laugh.
Quote:
i said prochoice
commit violence,you called me a
liar,
no I didn't, so yes you
*are* a liar.
heres the post you person
foreverblue wrote:
now I wonder if this could of been done by
a pro choicer, as been known before,pro
choice fanatics are just has deadly has
pro life fanatics
really? And you have evidence for that
claim? Lots of prochoicers on death row,
just like all the prolifers on death row?
Prochoicers having their own "nuremberg
site" with a life bounty of prolifers?
And prochoicers having a "white rose
banquet" where those who not a nice acted
prolifers are celebrated as heroes and
martyrs?
Or were you just speaking out your ass?
Now am I lying or are you I think everyone
can see you are the lying terrorist
supporter steen
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 01-28-05 13:29pm
Steen are you not fed up of being proven
wromg yet you are like a little jack
russel constantly yapping but never
getting anywhere of significance.
(i apologize to all jack russels no
offence intended).
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-28-05 13:31pm
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
methotrexate or "m&m" (5
to 9 weeks): methotrexate is normally used
for treatment of certain cancers,
rheumatoid arthritis, and certain
dermatological conditions. it is not
approved for abortions by the fda.
this drug is given by injection; it
interferes with the growth process of
rapidly dividing cells. Like ru-486, it
is followed by misoprostol (hence the
"m&m" nickname) to expel the fetus.
This method fails at least 4% of the time.
Methotrexate can potentially cause
serious side effects, including severe
anemia, ulcers and bone marrow depression.
(see box below)
the medical director of planned parenthood
of new york, Dr. Hakim elahi indicated
the side effects were so unpredictable he
would not use it as an abortion drug in
any dose. In a letter to the editors of
the new york times (april 8, 1996, at p.
A14), abortion provider don sloan warned
that methotrexate can produce severe
anemias, ulcers, and bone marrow
depressions that can be fatal, even at the
doses used for abortion and said
"many of us in the abortion trade, as I
am, are recoiling at the stark
irresponsibility of those who are parading
this medication in such cavalier fashion."
source: "existing drugs induced abortions
but some warn about toxicity," newsday
(new york), p. 7,
10/22/1993
can. Might, maybe...
For one, no evidence that women are
actually harmed, nor that this physician
provided the science behind his claims.
I am still waiting for that. That,
coupled with the evidence gathered through
many thousands of such abortions of
ectopic pregnancies without fatalities,
and no evidence in the literature of
mortality from mtx used inappropriately
either, well that really doesn't leave
much of an impression of mtx being as
dangerous as fishx claims, does it now.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-28-05 13:32pm
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
the commandment "thou shall
not kill" ( exodus 20:13; deuteronomy
5:17), is better understood to mean "you
shall not homicide," most modern
translations of the bible rendered it this
way. According to the bible not all
killing, the taking of a life, is not a
nice act. homicide is the unlawfully
taking of human life. the command not
to homicide applies to human beings, not
to killing animals or plant life for food.
God gave animals to mankind for his
use ( genesis 1:26-30; 9:1-4).
....
thanks for clarifying.
Those stinking liars surely wouldn't
accept a fact from me, so perhaps from you
it will give them pause in their incessant
lies and misrepresentations of god's holy
word.
i also posted this to
show that killing animals for food is not
the same as abortions at
all!!!!!
certainly. But it also
clarified that what the bible really say
is "do not homicide," not "do not kill."
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 01-28-05 13:33pm
Methotrexate can kill full stop that was
my post even the manufacturers are stating
it maybe you should write to them steen
tell them they are liars and do,nt know
there own product. :roll:
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-28-05 13:39pm
foreverblue
wrote:
steen
wrote:
foreverblue
wrote:
you are so stupid you
continue to call me an illiterate
person
since you always
misrepresent my posts, you are either
lying or illiterate. So you are saying
that you are not illiterate? Then you
must be a habitual liar instead. Yes,
that's actually quite typical for
prolifers, so I am not surprised.
person I dont misrepresent your
posts
yes you did and you
continue to do so. You continue to lie
and not owe up to your lies, which makes
you a lying coward.
Quote:
i just say what
you wrote and I quote your complete post
so what a joke you are turning into it is
so easy to prove your
lies,
by all means then "prove"
it.
Quote:
do you know what
illiterate means slimeball racist pig,i
can read and I can
write,
obviously you can't read
as you can't figure out what I wrote. If
you are literate, then it means that you
deliberately distort and misrepresents my
posts. Oh, yeah. Back to liar again.
So, are you illiterate or are you a
liar?
Quote:
Quote:
i said prochoice
commit violence,you called me a
liar,
no I didn't, so yes you
*are* a liar.
heres the post you person
foreverblue wrote:
now I wonder if this could of been done by
a pro choicer, as been known before,pro
choice fanatics are just has deadly has
pro life fanatics
steen wrote:
really? And you have evidence for that
claim? Lots of prochoicers on death row,
just like all the prolifers on death row?
Prochoicers having their own "nuremberg
site" with a life bounty of prolifers?
And prochoicers having a "white rose
banquet" where those who not a nice acted
prolifers are celebrated as heroes and
martyrs?
Or were you just speaking out your ass?
ah, where did I say that
prochoice never had commited violance? I
challenged your lie that prochoicers "are
just as deadly as prolife fanatics."
because that clearly is a lie, no surprise
there, as you are turning out to be a
firstclass liar and a coward to boot,
never owing up to your lies.
Quote:
now am I lying or
are you I think everyone can see you are
the lying terrorist supporter
steen
nope. You are lying. I
never stated that prochoice is not
violent. I merely challenged your
outright lie that prochoice is as deadly
as prolife fanatics.
Wonder why that upset you so much? To
close for comfort? Are you member of
army of god? Is eric rudolph your buddy?
|
lil_blaze2004
Supporter
Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: ,
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-28-05 13:40pm
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
methotrexate or "m&m" (5
to 9 weeks): methotrexate is normally used
for treatment of certain cancers,
rheumatoid arthritis, and certain
dermatological conditions. it is not
approved for abortions by the fda.
this drug is given by injection; it
interferes with the growth process of
rapidly dividing cells. Like ru-486, it
is followed by misoprostol (hence the
"m&m" nickname) to expel the fetus.
This method fails at least 4% of the time.
Methotrexate can potentially cause
serious side effects, including severe
anemia, ulcers and bone marrow depression.
(see box below)
the medical director of planned parenthood
of new york, Dr. Hakim elahi indicated
the side effects were so unpredictable he
would not use it as an abortion drug in
any dose. In a letter to the editors of
the new york times (april 8, 1996, at p.
A14), abortion provider don sloan warned
that methotrexate can produce severe
anemias, ulcers, and bone marrow
depressions that can be fatal, even at the
doses used for abortion and said
"many of us in the abortion trade, as I
am, are recoiling at the stark
irresponsibility of those who are parading
this medication in such cavalier fashion."
source: "existing drugs induced abortions
but some warn about toxicity," newsday
(new york), p. 7,
10/22/1993
can. Might, maybe...
For one, no evidence that women are
actually harmed, nor that this physician
provided the science behind his claims.
I am still waiting for that. That,
coupled with the evidence gathered through
many thousands of such abortions of
ectopic pregnancies without fatalities,
and no evidence in the literature of
mortality from mtx used inappropriately
either, well that really doesn't leave
much of an impression of mtx being as
dangerous as fishx claims, does it
now.
well it's not approved by the fda, so it
can't be that safe...
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-28-05 13:43pm
fishx
wrote:
methotrexate can kill full
stop that was my
post
nope, your post was a
claim that mtx for abortion can kill
women. And no, I have yet to see the
manufacturer quoted as saying anything
about its doses used for abortion, notably
as it is not approved for abortions as a
single agent here in the us, and thus will
not have recommendations or warnings.
So what you so dishonestly are doing is
trying to take their statement about
chronic use in high doses and then try to
claim this also fits for single-use small
doses. That clearly is deceptive, and is
further evidence of the habitual lies of
prolifers.
Yes, you lie, and you lie a lot. And you
are a coward for not owing up to your
lies.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-28-05 13:45pm
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
methotrexate or "m&m" (5
to 9 weeks): methotrexate is normally used
for treatment of certain cancers,
rheumatoid arthritis, and certain
dermatological conditions. it is not
approved for abortions by the fda.
this drug is given by injection; it
interferes with the growth process of
rapidly dividing cells. Like ru-486,
it is followed by misoprostol (hence the
"m&m" nickname) to expel the fetus.
This method fails at least 4% of the
time. Methotrexate can potentially
cause serious side effects, including
severe anemia, ulcers and bone marrow
depression. (see box below)
the medical director of planned parenthood
of new york, Dr. Hakim elahi indicated
the side effects were so unpredictable he
would not use it as an abortion drug in
any dose. In a letter to the editors
of the new york times (april 8, 1996, at
p. A14), abortion provider don sloan warned
that methotrexate can produce severe
anemias, ulcers, and bone marrow
depressions that can be fatal, even at the
doses used for abortion and said
"many of us in the abortion trade, as I
am, are recoiling at the stark
irresponsibility of those who are parading
this medication in such cavalier fashion."
source: "existing drugs induced abortions
but some warn about toxicity," newsday
(new york), p. 7,
10/22/1993
can. Might, maybe...
For one, no evidence that women are
actually harmed, nor that this physician
provided the science behind his claims.
I am still waiting for that. That,
coupled with the evidence gathered through
many thousands of such abortions of
ectopic pregnancies without fatalities,
and no evidence in the literature of
mortality from mtx used inappropriately
either, well that really doesn't leave
much of an impression of mtx being as
dangerous as fishx claims, does it
now.
well it's not approved by the fda, so it
can't be that
safe...
it **is** aproved for the
removal of ectopic pregnancies. And it
is approved in much higher doses for
chronic use in pateints with arthritis.
It is just not approved as a single agent
for abortions because the company has not
bothered submitting an application for
that use. Because they know that
fanatical prolife murderers will be all
over them if they do.
It has nothing to do with "safety" as it
is approved for many other uses, but has
everything to do with economics and
murderous prolifers.
|
lil_blaze2004
Supporter
Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: ,
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-28-05 14:25pm
steen
wrote:
it **is** aproved for the
removal of ectopic pregnancies. And it
is approved in much higher doses for
chronic use in pateints with arthritis.
It is just not approved as a single agent
for abortions because the company has not
bothered submitting an application for
that use. Because they know that
fanatical prolife not a nice persons will
be all over them if they do.
It has nothing to do with "safety" as it
is approved for many other uses, but has
everything to do with economics and not a
nice actous
prolifers.
i know it's approved for other uses but
not for abortions--i went looking on the
fda's site.
|
Kourtney08
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 08 May 2004 Posts: 937 Location: Alaska
Posted: 01-28-05 19:08pm
How you grow up, and then come back and
debate with me sweetheart. You're beyond
petty when trying to prove your point and
its getting old. I'd rather debate with
much wiser, intellegent people such as
fish. So from now on, i'll let you rant
and rave about the board, as I ignore your
petty little self.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-28-05 20:25pm
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
steen
wrote:
it **is** aproved for the
removal of ectopic pregnancies. And it
is approved in much higher doses for
chronic use in pateints with arthritis.
It is just not approved as a single agent
for abortions because the company has not
bothered submitting an application for
that use. Because they know that
fanatical prolife not a nice persons will
be all over them if they do.
It has nothing to do with "safety" as it
is approved for many other uses, but has
everything to do with economics and not a
nice actous
prolifers.
i know it's approved for
other uses but not for abortions--i went
looking on the fda's
site.
so you know that is was
approved for other treatments at much
higher doses for chronic use. And you
know that is was approved for ectopic
pregnancies. Yet you question whether it
was not apporved for regular abortions
because of "safety"? Sorry, but that
smells far away, that reasoning.
You have read the fda site you say. So
please tell me where there is any evidence
that this could be dangerous in a normal
single dose of low strength for an
abortion?
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-28-05 20:32pm
jlee77
wrote:
"the command not to homicide
applies to human beings, not to killing
animals or plant life for food. God
gave animals to mankind for his use (
genesis 1:26-30; 9:1-4). ...."
....This is what lil' blaze point was
twerp.
*and* we also note that
it thus is written in the bible that you
shall not homicide, not that you shall not
kill.
Funny, that is what you denied earlier.
Are you saying that lil'blaze is lying?
Or that you were in error earlier?
|
sandyallen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Feb 2004 Posts: 4580
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-28-05 20:37pm
Their are a lot of other meds and
chemicals that have side effects that
affect living cells, and can be dangerous,
look @ b/c, do you want to stop all of
them.
Sincerely,
sandy
|
PattyV
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 May 2004 Posts: 1103 Location: Chicago area
Posted: 01-28-05 22:45pm
Sandy,
your wisdom is wasted on these
zealots.I know your heart is in the right
place,but you are trying logic with
illogical people.How's the puppy?
Patty
