Should doctors stop using methotrexate in terminations?
yes they should stop
62%
[ 5 ]
no they should,nt
37%
[ 3 ]
Total Votes : 8
Author
Message
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-27-05 15:43pm
foreverblue
wrote:
steen
wrote:
fishx
wrote:
where is this contradicting
evidence then
steen?
i already provided you
with the evidence against your false claim
of mtx being dangerous to women. I
also provided the evidence against jlee's
lies about abortion causing breast cancer.
And I (and many others) also provided
the evidence against the lies about the
fetus feeling pain in 1st or 2nd
trimester. These pieces of evidence
are in the treads that discussed those
issues.
another lie steen your
word isnt evidence no matter how much you
think it is
now you are lying about
me. Because it was not just my word. I
provided the actual evidence and
references proving it.
So come again and claim that I lied when I
provided actual evidence?
But I will make it easy for you. Just
say where I lied:
(1) did I lie when I provided the direct
link to the american camcer society
emphatically stating that abortion does
not cause breast cancer? Was that just
my word? Was I lying when I provided the
link to that evidence?
(2) did I lie when I showed that there was
no evidence for mtx abortions being
lifethreatening to women by referencing
journal articles and the negative searches
of all medical scientific journals? Was
that just my word? Was I lying when I
provided the reference to that evidence?
(3) or did I lie when I posted numerous
scientific links to evidence regarding
embryology and the fetal ability of pain
sensation? Was that just my word? Was
I lying when I provided the link to that
evidence?
So, blue, here is a direct challenge to
you. Please show in which of these cases
I provided only my "word" or retract your
outright lie about me.
|
lil_blaze2004
Supporter
Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: ,
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-27-05 15:45pm
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
kourtney08
wrote:
yes of course I said that,
im not denying it. Im saying that im
not steen! So if hes telling people
they're wrong that really doesn't have a
thing to do with me. I was telling
that to everyone not just jilee, she seems
to do it a lot. Everyone has their
opinions, no ones is more "right" then the
other persons. Plain and
simple.
i'm not arguing with you
whatever you may think--lol I agree.
I tried to state my opinion many times and
the pro-choicers came running saying "no
you're wrong, you're wrong" and it got to
be a pain in the a$$. That's why I
don't post as often in this forum.. I
stick to my pregger forum....
:)
actually, the problem is
when prolifers make claims of "facts" when
those facts are no such thing. We saw
it with the "abortion causes breast
cancer" where the evidence against that
"opinion" got so overwhelming that even
jlee had to withdraw her absolutist and
false claim. And most recently, we have
seen it in fishx's claim of mehtotrexate
causing harm to women using it for
abortions. When "opinions" are
expressed as if they are facts, and when
there is evidence directly contradicting
the claim, then the claim is wrong
regardless of whether it is an "opinion"
or not.
If your expressed "opinion" is that the
world is flat, then your "opinion" is
wrong regardless of how much you claim it
to be an opinion.
If you say? I believe abortion is
wrong, then that is fine. If you say
'abhortion is wrong because <insert
false claim>" then it is no longer an
opinion but rather a claim of facts.
And that very certainly can be wrong.
So please, in your accusation against me,
show where I have challenged an "opinion"
that didn't express a false claim of
"fact," please.
Or else retact your false
accusation.
i'm not retracting anything as this is all
my
opinion!!!!!!!!!!
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-27-05 15:45pm
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
secondly..Steen was the one
who started telling everyone they were
wrong even when we were posting opinions
or feelings.
would you mind providing
evidence for that false
claim?
yah if I had time to go back to old posts
and go through them one by one which I
don't.
ah, so you fling out
unsubstantiated lies with no regard for
actually being able to back up your lies?
Nice going there. Now I truly recognize
you as a prolifer. Your claim about me
is an outright lie. If you want to
repeat it, better be able to prove it.
For now, I insist that you retract your
lies about me.
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 01-27-05 15:46pm
steen
wrote:
foreverblue
wrote:
steen
wrote:
fishx
wrote:
where is this contradicting
evidence then
steen?
i already provided you
with the evidence against your false claim
of mtx being dangerous to women. I
also provided the evidence against jlee's
lies about abortion causing breast cancer.
And I (and many others) also
provided the evidence against the lies
about the fetus feeling pain in 1st or 2nd
trimester. These pieces of evidence
are in the treads that discussed those
issues.
another lie steen your
word isnt evidence no matter how much you
think it is
now you are lying about
me. Because it was not just my word.
I provided the actual evidence and
references proving it.
So come again and claim that I lied when I
provided actual evidence?
But I will make it easy for you. Just
say where I lied:
(1) did I lie when I provided the direct
link to the american camcer society
emphatically stating that abortion does
not cause breast cancer? Was that just
my word? Was I lying when I provided
the link to that evidence?
(2) did I lie when I showed that there was
no evidence for mtx abortions being
lifethreatening to women by referencing
journal articles and the negative searches
of all medical scientific journals?
Was that just my word? Was I lying
when I provided the reference to that
evidence?
(3) or did I lie when I posted numerous
scientific links to evidence regarding
embryology and the fetal ability of pain
sensation? Was that just my word?
Was I lying when I provided the link to
that evidence?
So, blue, here is a direct challenge to
you. Please show in which of these
cases I provided only my "word" or retract
your outright lie about
me.
2) did I lie when I showed that there was
no evidence for mtx abortions being
lifethreatening to women by referencing
journal articles and the negative searches
of all medical scientific journals?
Was that just my word? Was I lying
when I provided the reference to that
evidence?
Your links did,nt work
please suply this evidence .
Last edited by FISHX on 01-27-05 15:47pm; edited 1 time in total
|
lil_blaze2004
Supporter
Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: ,
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-27-05 15:47pm
steen
wrote:
fishx
wrote:
where is this contradicting
evidence then
steen?
i already provided you
with the evidence against your false claim
of mtx being dangerous to women. I also
provided the evidence against jlee's lies
about abortion causing breast cancer.
And I (and many others) also provided the
evidence against the lies about the fetus
feeling pain in 1st or 2nd trimester.
These pieces of evidence are in the treads
that discussed those
issues.
okay how many doing it times are you gonna
bring up the bloody breast cancer thing...
Jlee admited she was wrong and had posted
before knowing all the facts.... Fish
provided links to mtx being deadly in
women or I guess that cnn article was all
a lie. And according to some doctors the
fetus .D.O.E.S. Feel pain in the second
trimester....
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-27-05 15:48pm
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
just trying to explain why
things seem to get so out of hand on this
forum.
rather, it was your
version thereoff, an blatant attempt at
maligning me. Your accusation is
outright
false.
is it????? I don't
think so... Once again if I had time to
go through old posts one by one I would
show you where you tell half of us we are
wrong, even when we are just stating
opinions....
yes, you keep on
repeating that lie. If it is so rampant,
it should be easy for you to find an
example. Yet, you can't be bothered,
even though it means that you are lying
aout somebody else. Nice going there,
prolifer.
Quote:
and my blatant
attempt was meant for more than one person
but you and a couple of the others are the
ones who kept coming on stating we were
wrong....
"wrong"? Oh, like
prolifers keep on saying abortion is
wrong? Funny how you now look the
hypocrite. Guess I was wrong about you
seeming to have integrity.
|
lil_blaze2004
Supporter
Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: ,
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-27-05 15:49pm
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
secondly..Steen was the one
who started telling everyone they were
wrong even when we were posting opinions
or feelings.
would you mind providing
evidence for that false
claim?
yah if I had time to go back to old posts
and go through them one by one which I
don't.
ah, so you fling out
unsubstantiated lies with no regard for
actually being able to back up your lies?
Nice going there. Now I truly
recognize you as a prolifer. Your claim
about me is an outright lie. If you
want to repeat it, better be able to prove
it. For now, I insist that you retract
your lies about
me.
you insist????? Lmao i'm sorry your
"psychiatric" practice is so slow that you
have time to go through old posts and
quote them , but as I have a life I don't.
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 01-27-05 15:50pm
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
just trying to explain why
things seem to get so out of hand on this
forum.
rather, it was your
version thereoff, an blatant attempt at
maligning me. Your accusation is
outright
false.
is it????? I don't
think so... Once again if I had time to
go through old posts one by one I would
show you where you tell half of us we are
wrong, even when we are just stating
opinions....
yes, you keep on
repeating that lie. If it is so
rampant, it should be easy for you to find
an example. Yet, you can't be bothered,
even though it means that you are lying
aout somebody else. Nice going there,
prolifer.
Quote:
and my blatant
attempt was meant for more than one person
but you and a couple of the others are the
ones who kept coming on stating we were
wrong....
"wrong"? Oh, like
prolifers keep on saying abortion is
wrong? Funny how you now look the
hypocrite. Guess I was wrong about you
seeming to have
integrity.
well thats rich coming from you the
biggest liar in here .
|
Kourtney08
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 08 May 2004 Posts: 937 Location: Alaska
Posted: 01-27-05 15:51pm
Nobodys opinion on abortion is wrong.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-27-05 15:51pm
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
i'm not retracting anything
as this is all my
opinion!!!!!!!!!!
a falsehood.
You made a direct claim about my post and
what I specifically had done. Then it
stops being an opinion and instead turns
into a factual claim. If you want to say
that in your opinion I do what you accuse
me off, then it is your perogative, and
you will only then be exposed as not
having any basis for your opinion other
than hatred of prochoice. But when you
directly claimed that I had done
something, then it ceased being an opinion
and instead became a sated factual
claim.
So now, please retract that false claim if
you have even a slight amount of integrity
left.
|
foreverblue
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 577
Posted: 01-27-05 15:53pm
steen
wrote:
foreverblue
wrote:
steen
wrote:
fishx
wrote:
where is this contradicting
evidence then
steen?
i already provided you
with the evidence against your false claim
of mtx being dangerous to women. I
also provided the evidence against jlee's
lies about abortion causing breast cancer.
And I (and many others) also provided
the evidence against the lies about the
fetus feeling pain in 1st or 2nd
trimester. These pieces of evidence
are in the treads that discussed those
issues.
another lie steen your
word isnt evidence no matter how much you
think it is
now you are lying about
me. Because it was not just my word.
I provided the actual evidence and
references proving it.
So come again and claim that I lied when I
provided actual evidence?
But I will make it easy for you. Just
say where I lied:
(1) did I lie when I provided the direct
link to the american camcer society
emphatically stating that abortion does
not cause breast cancer? Was that just
my word? Was I lying when I provided
the link to that evidence?
(2) did I lie when I showed that there was
no evidence for mtx abortions being
lifethreatening to women by referencing
journal articles and the negative searches
of all medical scientific journals? Was
that just my word? Was I lying when I
provided the reference to that evidence?
(3) or did I lie when I posted numerous
scientific links to evidence regarding
embryology and the fetal ability of pain
sensation? Was that just my word?
Was I lying when I provided the link to
that evidence?
So, blue, here is a direct challenge to
you. Please show in which of these
cases I provided only my "word" or retract
your outright lie about
me.
in this thread itself are women dying to
terminate you posted two links both to
ehealth forum<which do not work
surprise> other than that nothing so
there you go liar,they were probably links
to your own posts which isnt evidence
anyway
|
lil_blaze2004
Supporter
Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: ,
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-27-05 15:53pm
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
just trying to explain why
things seem to get so out of hand on this
forum.
rather, it was your
version thereoff, an blatant attempt at
maligning me. Your accusation is
outright
false.
is it????? I don't
think so... Once again if I had time to
go through old posts one by one I would
show you where you tell half of us we are
wrong, even when we are just stating
opinions....
yes, you keep on
repeating that lie. If it is so
rampant, it should be easy for you to find
an example. Yet, you can't be bothered,
even though it means that you are lying
aout somebody else. Nice going there,
prolifer.
Quote:
and my blatant
attempt was meant for more than one person
but you and a couple of the others are the
ones who kept coming on stating we were
wrong....
"wrong"? Oh, like
prolifers keep on saying abortion is
wrong? Funny how you now look the
hypocrite. Guess I was wrong about you
seeming to have
integrity.
did I ever say I was prolife or
prochoice??? Ummmm.. Nope so now who's
"""lying"""" steen I can't be totally
prolife cause i'd love it if you jumped
off the closest bridge. And don't tell
me I have no integrity.. You're the
friend with a failing practice since you
have soooooooo much time to come on all
these forums
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 01-27-05 15:54pm
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
i'm not retracting anything
as this is all my
opinion!!!!!!!!!!
a falsehood.
You made a direct claim about my post
and what I specifically had done. Then
it stops being an opinion and instead
turns into a factual claim. If you want
to say that in your opinion I do what you
accuse me off, then it is your perogative,
and you will only then be exposed as not
having any basis for your opinion other
than hatred of prochoice. But when you
directly claimed that I had done
something, then it ceased being an opinion
and instead became a sated factual
claim.
So now, please retract that false claim if
you have even a slight amount of integrity
left.
and will you retract all your lies then
steen
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-27-05 15:55pm
{about mtx}
fishx
wrote:
your links did,nt work
please suply this evidence
.
i proviided the medical
reference to a scientific journal article
you can obtain through interlibrary loan
if you do not have access to medline so
your claim about a link that didn't work
is an outright lie as I didn't give an
online link to that issue. Nice going
there, the links were to posts earlier in
the tread, posts you had answered.
|
lil_blaze2004
Supporter
Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: ,
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-27-05 15:58pm
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
i'm not retracting anything
as this is all my
opinion!!!!!!!!!!
a falsehood.
You made a direct claim about my post
and what I specifically had done. Then
it stops being an opinion and instead
turns into a factual claim. If you want
to say that in your opinion I do what you
accuse me off, then it is your perogative,
and you will only then be exposed as not
having any basis for your opinion other
than hatred of prochoice. But when you
directly claimed that I had done
something, then it ceased being an opinion
and instead became a sated factual
claim.
So now, please retract that false claim if
you have even a slight amount of integrity
left.
whatever steen, you know what you did.
When I first came on anything I said you
said I was lying... If we call our
"fetus' " babies then that is our
choice--does not make us a liar. If my
doc tells me that a 20week old "fetus"
feels pain and I post it, then I believe
my real doc over you, yet you say it's a
lie..
You break down everyone's posts and attack
them untill people get so fed up they
start calling you names... And I won't
retract something I believe in.
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 01-27-05 15:59pm
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
just trying to explain why
things seem to get so out of hand on this
forum.
rather, it was your
version thereoff, an blatant attempt at
maligning me. Your accusation is
outright
false.
is it????? I don't
think so... Once again if I had time
to go through old posts one by one I would
show you where you tell half of us we are
wrong, even when we are just stating
opinions....
yes, you keep on
repeating that lie. If it is so
rampant, it should be easy for you to find
an example. Yet, you can't be
bothered, even though it means that you
are lying aout somebody else. Nice
going there, prolifer.
Quote:
and my blatant
attempt was meant for more than one person
but you and a couple of the others are the
ones who kept coming on stating we were
wrong....
"wrong"? Oh, like
prolifers keep on saying abortion is
wrong? Funny how you now look the
hypocrite. Guess I was wrong about you
seeming to have
integrity.
did I ever say I was prolife or
prochoice??? Ummmm.. Nope so now
who's """lying"""" steen I can't be
totally prolife cause i'd love it if you
jumped off the closest bridge. And
don't tell me I have no integrity..
You're the friend with a failing practice
since you have soooooooo much time to come
on all these
forums
l
lol oh yes please steen do just this one
thing for us .
But is,nt attempted suicide a crime funny
when you think you can break the law by
trying to take your own life but you can
take the life of a fetus/baby and in the
eyes of the law thats ok.
How screwed up can society be?
|
foreverblue
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 577
Posted: 01-27-05 16:00pm
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
i'm not retracting anything
as this is all my
opinion!!!!!!!!!!
a falsehood.
You made a direct claim about my post
and what I specifically had done. Then
it stops being an opinion and instead
turns into a factual claim. If you
want to say that in your opinion I do what
you accuse me off, then it is your
perogative, and you will only then be
exposed as not having any basis for your
opinion other than hatred of prochoice.
But when you directly claimed that I had
done something, then it ceased being an
opinion and instead became a sated factual
claim.
So now, please retract that false claim if
you have even a slight amount of integrity
left.
whatever steen, you know what you did.
When I first came on anything I said you
said I was lying... If we call our
"fetus' " babies then that is our
choice--does not make us a liar. If my
doc tells me that a 20week old "fetus"
feels pain and I post it, then I believe
my real doc over you, yet you say it's a
lie..
You break down everyone's posts and attack
them untill people get so fed up they
start calling you names... And I won't
retract something I believe
in.
i agree lil I tried to be civil but when
he couldnt find a reason he took one line
and twisted it
|
lil_blaze2004
Supporter
Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: ,
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-27-05 16:04pm
foreverblue
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
i'm not retracting anything
as this is all my
opinion!!!!!!!!!!
a falsehood.
You made a direct claim about my post
and what I specifically had done.
Then it stops being an opinion and instead
turns into a factual claim. If you
want to say that in your opinion I do what
you accuse me off, then it is your
perogative, and you will only then be
exposed as not having any basis for your
opinion other than hatred of prochoice.
But when you directly claimed that I had
done something, then it ceased being an
opinion and instead became a sated factual
claim.
So now, please retract that false claim if
you have even a slight amount of integrity
left.
whatever steen, you know what you did.
When I first came on anything I said you
said I was lying... If we call our
"fetus' " babies then that is our
choice--does not make us a liar. If my
doc tells me that a 20week old "fetus"
feels pain and I post it, then I believe
my real doc over you, yet you say it's a
lie..
You break down everyone's posts and attack
them untill people get so fed up they
start calling you names... And I won't
retract something I believe
in.
i agree lil I tried to be civil but when
he couldnt find a reason he took one line
and twisted
it
that's steenie pooh for u!!!!
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 01-27-05 16:08pm
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
steen
wrote:
fishx
wrote:
where is this contradicting
evidence then
steen?
i already provided you
with the evidence against your false claim
of mtx being dangerous to women. I
also provided the evidence against jlee's
lies about abortion causing breast cancer.
And I (and many others) also provided
the evidence against the lies about the
fetus feeling pain in 1st or 2nd
trimester. These pieces of evidence
are in the treads that discussed those
issues.
okay how many doing it
times are you gonna bring up the bloody
breast cancer thing...
because it is evidence of
prolife propensity to lie incessantly
until the evidence simply is so
overwhelming that even they know that they
look bad for repeating the lie.
Quote:
jlee admited she
was wrong and had posted before knowing
all the facts....
ah, but it is not that
simple. Jlee repeated her lie for many
weeks after having been given the unbiased
information from the american cancer
society. As such, she spend many weeks
deliberately lying.
Quote:
fish provided
links to mtx being deadly in women or I
guess that cnn article was all a
lie.
and I provided the
evidence to the contrary, scientific,
unbiased evidence. Yet, fishx continues
to claim his lie. And whatever ccn said,
it did not show that women were harmed by
mtx abortions. I am still waiting for
the actual evidence of this, and will be
waiting for a long time because it doesn't
exist.
Quote:
and according to
some doctors the fetus .D.O.E.S. Feel
pain in the second
trimester....
and according to some
doctors, abortion still is claimed to
cause breast cancer. That is why medical
professionals rely on peer-reviewed
science rather than people with political
agendas. Yes, the research is
unequivocally clear and I and others have
provided the links and references for this
clear evidence that it is physically
impossible for the fetus to feel *anything
at all* until the start of 3rd
trimester.
Yet, fishx repeats now disproved claim.
Yet jlee took weeks before finally
halfheartedly giving up her lie about
abortion and breast cancer (and notably,
many prolife lie-sites *still* claim that
abortion causes breast cancer
yet you are still trying to lend credence
to the claim of 2nd trimester pain, and
many prolife lie-sites as well as many
other prolife posters here still repeats
those claims.
Can you guess what my conclusion about
prolifers and honesty then is?
Yes, debate is just fine. Endlessly
having to post the same evidence against
the same prolife lies is *not* fine
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 01-27-05 16:09pm
steen
wrote:
{about mtx}
fishx
wrote:
your links did,nt work
please suply this evidence
.
i proviided the medical
reference to a scientific journal article
you can obtain through interlibrary loan
if you do not have access to medline so
your claim about a link that didn't work
is an outright lie as I didn't give an
online link to that issue. Nice going
there, the links were to posts earlier in
the tread, posts you had
answered.
then do what you demand of others post
your proof d.I.C.K head
