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This Is What I Mean By Inhumane

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FISHX

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This Is What I Mean By Inhumane
Posted: 02-04-05 14:12pm

From abortion to infanticide.
Written by sheila trainor
recent articles in the alberta report have exposed nurses's allegations of the shocking practice of late-term abortions and infanticide at the calgary foothills hospital. The procedure referred to as "genetic termination" involves the premature induction of labour on women whose preborn children are diagnosed with genetic anomalies. It seems that the procedure is used to terminate defective preborns up to the 35th week of gestation. Apparently, some babies are stillborn, others die shortly after birth but some are born alive and at least one baby lived for 12 hours even though he or she was denied care. Since these babies are not meant to live, nurses have told thealberta report that they are forbidden to provide treatment or medical care, including nutrition and hydration, to these newborns who are left to die. In the case of the baby who lived for 12 hours, the nurses took turns holding and rocking the baby. Nurses were so traumatized by these events that they contacted the alberta reportto expose the practice. They seemingly came armed not only with their stories but also with hospital memos which apparently substantiate their allegations. These memos have also been anonymously forwarded to some mp's.

The official response from the calgary regional health authority is almost suckers as the events which allegedly occurred at the calgary foothills hospital. Rather than express alarm at the possibility that the hospital may be performing these grisly procedures and letting the poor newborns die they have turned their wrath on the alberta report for printing the facts. A court imposed injunction forbids the alberta report to further report on this scandal! Calgary southeast mp, jason kenney, states in a recent news release "it seems that the chra (calgary regional health authority) is even willing to suppress freedom of the press in its effort to keep the public from learning what's going on in a public hospital at public expense."

it is possible that these actions are not just gruesome but may also be illegal. Since the supreme court struck down the law on abortion in 1988, abortion is unregulated and may be performed at any time during the nine months of pregnancy. In law it is stated that once a child has fully emerged from the body of its mother it becomes a person and its right to life must be respected. Allowing a child to die after birth through negligence would be classed as infanticide. Mr. Kenney has called for a criminal investigation into these allegations of infanticide. In his letter to the attorney general of alberta, mr. Kenney refers to 6 sections of the criminal code which may have been violated in the termination prodecures. The chief of police has announced that they will initiate a criminal investigation.


Please tell me i,m not the only one to find this unacceptable
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mom2trevor

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Posted: 02-04-05 14:32pm

Fish--i agree that is ihumane and totally unacceptable. It is horrible to know that things like that are allowed to go on. How can they forbid treatment? It's obvious that the little ones suffer during this....It's shocking and sickening to know that it goes on....It is infantcide and it needs to stop!
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msrosie

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Re: This Is What I Mean By Inhumane
Posted: 02-04-05 14:40pm

fishx wrote:

please tell me i,m not the only one to find this unacceptable


i think they should give "comfort care" ie. Feeding, pain management etc. But I support the right of the parents to not have extraordinary measures applied, if there is no hope of living or having any quality of life.

Having said that, I am not convinced this is happening in alberta. Could be just another caca antichoice propaganda thing. If I see some proof from a reputable, unbiased source, I may change my mind.

Rosie
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FISHX

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Posted: 02-04-05 14:52pm

That is what I would expect you to do ms rosie because I for one know that being honest I would double check articles posted by pro choice so I expect you to do the same.


My point is even if these babies( as they are born so therefore can be called babies) have no chance of living then they should at the very least be made comfertable and not be left in pain.
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msrosie

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Posted: 02-04-05 15:45pm

fishx wrote:

my point is even if these babies( as they are born so therefore can be called babies) have no chance of living then they should at the very least be made comfertable and not be left in pain.


we do not disagree here.

Rosie
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Kourtney08

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Posted: 02-04-05 16:09pm

It makes me want to cry.

Im still pro-choice, because I support the choice of a woman. Whether it be abortion, adoption, or keeping the baby.

But thinking of a poor baby living for 12 hours with no mommy scared, makes me really sad. I have to admit.
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steen

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Posted: 02-04-05 20:28pm

In those cases, comfort care is the only humane thing to do. These neonates have so many problems that they suffer from the moment of their awareness until they die. To engage in "heroic" meassures to prolong their misery before the inevitable end is what I would call inhumane. And yes, it is generally accepted in neonatal care throughout the western world, including the us, that any preemie before 24 weeks will simply be aloowed to die with only comfort care.


So this is not unique to abortion but is standard practice in most cases of extreme prematurity. This comfort care is done *everywhere*, including at your local secondary and tertiary hospitals.

Now, this did not really address the issue of what was considered inhumane with the d&x process at all, so it kind of is off-topic in the question we are having here regarding why the d&x procedure is inhumane. Because here, all we are talking about are 3rd trimester induction abortions, which is very different and quite rare.
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sandyallen

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Posted: 02-05-05 00:05am

We have always given ours comfort, we don't care what the Dr. Says, I have jumped on several docs for this and I always believe in giving them human touch before they go, to me anyone that will die deserves this, young old and in between, I have had several die in my arms, it is a great feeling, believe it or not.

Of course I do not believe in allowing a terminal pt. To suffer, young or old, when they are ready, let them go, let them have there dignity, we do this for our animals, why should humans suffer, to me kvorkian(sp) wasn't all that bad.
Somewhat off the subject.
Sincerely,
sandy
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FISHX

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Posted: 02-05-05 09:50am

jlee77 wrote:
i don't believe anyone, animal or human, should have to suffer either. At that point it's best to let them go. But a 35 week old has a great chance of survival so it that 35 week old is born w/o defects and fatal possibilities and is not suffering, no 35 week old in my care is going to rot for 12 hours to die when he/she didn't have to. Sick people there!

Amazingly....I agree with you when you talk about kevorkian (sp?).




i,v never heard of him.
Who is he ?
What does he do?

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease
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steen

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Posted: 02-05-05 12:33pm

jlee77 wrote:
so to let a 35 week old baby sit there for 12 hours only to die is indeed inhumane.
agreed. 35 weeks is almost term. 35 week abortions is never the norm anywhere.
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steen

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Posted: 02-05-05 12:35pm

fishx wrote:

amazingly....I agree with you when you talk about kevorkian (sp?).
i,v never heard of him.

Who is he ?

What does he do?[/quote]right now, he is in jail. He is the physician from detroit who did all that asssisted suicide stuff in the 90s.
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FISHX

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Posted: 02-05-05 12:43pm

steen wrote:
fishx wrote:

amazingly....I agree with you when you talk about kevorkian (sp?).
i,v never heard of him.


Who is he ?


What does he do?
right now, he is in jail. He is the physician from detroit who did all that asssisted suicide stuff in the 90s.[/quote]


oh right thank you i,ll have to read up on him before I can comment on him though.
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PattyV

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Posted: 02-06-05 17:28pm

Sandy,you are right on about Dr.Jack.I do not think he is a bad guy.He is just human enough to know pain and suffering have a limit.We used to do a "slow code" on patients when we knew that enough was enough.(this means we would call the code only after knowing they had stopped breathing-when there were no do not resucitate orders present).Many docs would deny this exsists,but we would follow their orders to do so.I have been present when many people took their last breath and I also believe that no person should die alone.It is a sad thing to see,a person alone and dying,families too busy to hold their loved ones as they leave this world.I wish that on no one.
Patty
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Izzy

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Posted: 02-10-05 11:04am

Kervorkian drove around the united states "helpping people to die" or m erdering people in his automobile...Which he termed his "death machine"
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FISHX

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Posted: 02-10-05 11:05am

izzy wrote:
kervorkian drove around the united states "helpping people to die" or m erdering people in his automobile...Which he termed his "death machine"



but he was a doctor right?
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Izzy

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Posted: 02-10-05 11:09am

I believe so
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FISHX

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Posted: 02-10-05 11:13am

izzy wrote:
i believe so





what I can't understand is by law these doctors can take the life of the unborn quiet legally to save the womans life or if the fetus/baby is going to die anyway yet it is illegal to take the life of a adult human even if they are going to suffer and die.

How hypocritical of society.
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2ferano

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Posted: 02-10-05 19:06pm

Suicide is the result of a mental disease. A disease which can be treated, and therefore suicide, or assisted suicide is illegal. Yes, because this is a fully developed person who just needs medical help.
A fetus being aborted to save the life of the pregnant woman is nothing like assisted suicide. The fetus is living off of the pregnant woman, cannot live or develop without her and is not its own being. If the woman who is supporting this fetus doesn't wish to continue, that is her right and her choice, especially if it is going to put her life in danger if not certainly kill her.
How dare you people try to say that she is wrong for chosing to live. Let's hope none of you are ever put in that situation.
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FISHX

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Posted: 02-11-05 07:01am

hotasfrick wrote:
suicide is the result of a mental disease. A disease which can be treated, and therefore suicide, or assisted suicide is illegal. Yes, because this is a fully developed person who just needs medical help.

A fetus being aborted to save the life of the pregnant woman is nothing like assisted suicide. The fetus is living off of the pregnant woman, cannot live or develop without her and is not its own being. If the woman who is supporting this fetus doesn't wish to continue, that is her right and her choice, especially if it is going to put her life in danger if not certainly kill her.

How dare you people try to say that she is wrong for chosing to live. Let's hope none of you are ever put in that situation.




sorry but I was reffering to people who had terminal illness not mental illness.
Now the mental health bill is a whole new thread.
How can society see it as ok to terminate a pregnancy because the fetu/baby is not going to survive birth but let a cancer sufferer who wants to die suffer ?
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