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FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
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This Is What I Mean By Inhumane
Posted: 02-04-05 14:12pm
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From abortion to infanticide.
Written by sheila trainor
recent articles in the alberta report have
exposed nurses's allegations of the
shocking practice of late-term abortions
and infanticide at the calgary foothills
hospital. The procedure referred to as
"genetic termination" involves the
premature induction of labour on women
whose preborn children are diagnosed with
genetic anomalies. It seems that the
procedure is used to terminate defective
preborns up to the 35th week of gestation.
Apparently, some babies are stillborn,
others die shortly after birth but some
are born alive and at least one baby lived
for 12 hours even though he or she was
denied care. Since these babies are not
meant to live, nurses have told thealberta
report that they are forbidden to provide
treatment or medical care, including
nutrition and hydration, to these newborns
who are left to die. In the case of the
baby who lived for 12 hours, the nurses
took turns holding and rocking the baby.
Nurses were so traumatized by these events
that they contacted the alberta reportto
expose the practice. They seemingly came
armed not only with their stories but also
with hospital memos which apparently
substantiate their allegations. These
memos have also been anonymously forwarded
to some mp's.
The official response from the calgary
regional health authority is almost
suckers as the events which allegedly
occurred at the calgary foothills
hospital. Rather than express alarm at
the possibility that the hospital may be
performing these grisly procedures and
letting the poor newborns die they have
turned their wrath on the alberta report
for printing the facts. A court imposed
injunction forbids the alberta report to
further report on this scandal! Calgary
southeast mp, jason kenney, states in a
recent news release "it seems that the
chra (calgary regional health authority)
is even willing to suppress freedom of the
press in its effort to keep the public
from learning what's going on in a public
hospital at public expense."
it is possible that these actions are not
just gruesome but may also be illegal.
Since the supreme court struck down the
law on abortion in 1988, abortion is
unregulated and may be performed at any
time during the nine months of pregnancy.
In law it is stated that once a child has
fully emerged from the body of its mother
it becomes a person and its right to life
must be respected. Allowing a child to
die after birth through negligence would
be classed as infanticide. Mr. Kenney
has called for a criminal investigation
into these allegations of infanticide. In
his letter to the attorney general of
alberta, mr. Kenney refers to 6 sections
of the criminal code which may have been
violated in the termination prodecures.
The chief of police has announced that
they will initiate a criminal
investigation.
Please tell me i,m not the only one to
find this unacceptable
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mom2trevor
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 22 Dec 2004 Posts: 694 Location: VA
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Posted: 02-04-05 14:32pm
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Fish--i agree that is ihumane and totally
unacceptable. It is horrible to know that
things like that are allowed to go on.
How can they forbid treatment? It's
obvious that the little ones suffer during
this....It's shocking and sickening to
know that it goes on....It is infantcide
and it needs to stop!
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msrosie
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 369 Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks: 12
Thanked:2
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Re: This Is What I Mean By Inhumane
Posted: 02-04-05 14:40pm
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| fishx
wrote: |
please tell me i,m not the only one to
find this
unacceptable |
i think they should give "comfort care"
ie. Feeding, pain management etc. But I
support the right of the parents to not
have extraordinary measures applied, if
there is no hope of living or having any
quality of life.
Having said that, I am not convinced this
is happening in alberta. Could be just
another caca antichoice propaganda thing.
If I see some proof from a reputable,
unbiased source, I may change my mind.
Rosie
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FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
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Posted: 02-04-05 14:52pm
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That is what I would expect you to do ms
rosie because I for one know that being
honest I would double check articles
posted by pro choice so I expect you to do
the same.
My point is even if these babies( as they
are born so therefore can be called
babies) have no chance of living then they
should at the very least be made
comfertable and not be left in pain.
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msrosie
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 369 Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks: 12
Thanked:2
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Posted: 02-04-05 15:45pm
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| fishx
wrote: |
my point is even if these babies( as they
are born so therefore can be called
babies) have no chance of living then they
should at the very least be made
comfertable and not be left in
pain. |
we do not disagree here.
Rosie
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Kourtney08
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 08 May 2004 Posts: 937 Location: Alaska
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Posted: 02-04-05 16:09pm
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It makes me want to cry.
Im still pro-choice, because I support the
choice of a woman. Whether it be
abortion, adoption, or keeping the baby.
But thinking of a poor baby living for 12
hours with no mommy scared, makes me
really sad. I have to admit.
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steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
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Posted: 02-04-05 20:28pm
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In those cases, comfort care is the only
humane thing to do. These neonates have
so many problems that they suffer from the
moment of their awareness until they die.
To engage in "heroic" meassures to
prolong their misery before the inevitable
end is what I would call inhumane. And
yes, it is generally accepted in neonatal
care throughout the western world,
including the us, that any preemie before
24 weeks will simply be aloowed to die
with only comfort care.
So this is not unique to abortion but is
standard practice in most cases of extreme
prematurity. This comfort care is done
*everywhere*, including at your local
secondary and tertiary hospitals.
Now, this did not really address the issue
of what was considered inhumane with the
d&x process at all, so it kind of is
off-topic in the question we are having
here regarding why the d&x procedure
is inhumane. Because here, all we are
talking about are 3rd trimester induction
abortions, which is very different and
quite rare.
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sandyallen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Feb 2004 Posts: 4580
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Posted: 02-05-05 00:05am
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We have always given ours comfort, we
don't care what the Dr. Says, I have
jumped on several docs for this and I
always believe in giving them human touch
before they go, to me anyone that will die
deserves this, young old and in between, I
have had several die in my arms, it is a
great feeling, believe it or not.
Of course I do not believe in allowing a
terminal pt. To suffer, young or old,
when they are ready, let them go, let them
have there dignity, we do this for our
animals, why should humans suffer, to me
kvorkian(sp) wasn't all that bad.
Somewhat off the subject.
Sincerely,
sandy
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FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
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Posted: 02-05-05 09:50am
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| jlee77
wrote: | i don't believe anyone,
animal or human, should have to suffer
either. At that point it's best to let
them go. But a 35 week old has a great
chance of survival so it that 35 week old
is born w/o defects and fatal
possibilities and is not suffering, no 35
week old in my care is going to rot for 12
hours to die when he/she didn't have to.
Sick people there!
Amazingly....I agree with you when you
talk about kevorkian
(sp?). |
i,v never heard of him.
Who is he ?
What does he do?
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease
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steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
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Posted: 02-05-05 12:33pm
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| jlee77
wrote: | | so to let a 35 week old baby
sit there for 12 hours only to die is
indeed
inhumane. |
agreed. 35 weeks is
almost term. 35 week abortions is never
the norm anywhere.
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steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
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Posted: 02-05-05 12:35pm
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| fishx
wrote: |
amazingly....I agree with you when you
talk about kevorkian
(sp?). |
i,v never heard of him.
Who is he ?
What does he do?[/quote]right now, he is
in jail. He is the physician from
detroit who did all that asssisted suicide
stuff in the 90s.
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FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
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Posted: 02-05-05 12:43pm
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| steen
wrote: | | fishx
wrote: |
amazingly....I agree with you when you
talk about kevorkian
(sp?). |
i,v never heard of him.
Who is he ?
What does he
do? |
right now, he is in jail.
He is the physician from detroit who
did all that asssisted suicide stuff in
the 90s.[/quote]
oh right thank you i,ll have to read up on
him before I can comment on him though.
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PattyV
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 May 2004 Posts: 1103 Location: Chicago area
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Posted: 02-06-05 17:28pm
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Sandy,you are right on about Dr.Jack.I do
not think he is a bad guy.He is just human
enough to know pain and suffering have a
limit.We used to do a "slow code" on
patients when we knew that enough was
enough.(this means we would call the code
only after knowing they had stopped
breathing-when there were no do not
resucitate orders present).Many docs would
deny this exsists,but we would follow
their orders to do so.I have been present
when many people took their last breath
and I also believe that no person should
die alone.It is a sad thing to see,a
person alone and dying,families too busy
to hold their loved ones as they leave
this world.I wish that on no one.
Patty
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Izzy
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 883 Location: Earth
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Posted: 02-10-05 11:04am
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Kervorkian drove around the united states
"helpping people to die" or m erdering
people in his automobile...Which he termed
his "death machine"
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FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
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Posted: 02-10-05 11:05am
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| izzy
wrote: | | kervorkian drove around the
united states "helpping people to die" or
m erdering people in his
automobile...Which he termed his "death
machine" |
but he was a doctor right?
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Izzy
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 883 Location: Earth
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FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
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Posted: 02-10-05 11:13am
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what I can't understand is by law these
doctors can take the life of the unborn
quiet legally to save the womans life or
if the fetus/baby is going to die anyway
yet it is illegal to take the life of a
adult human even if they are going to
suffer and die.
How hypocritical of society.
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2ferano
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Dec 2003 Posts: 3717
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Posted: 02-10-05 19:06pm
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Suicide is the result of a mental disease.
A disease which can be treated, and
therefore suicide, or assisted suicide is
illegal. Yes, because this is a fully
developed person who just needs medical
help.
A fetus being aborted to save the life of
the pregnant woman is nothing like
assisted suicide. The fetus is living
off of the pregnant woman, cannot live or
develop without her and is not its own
being. If the woman who is supporting
this fetus doesn't wish to continue, that
is her right and her choice, especially if
it is going to put her life in danger if
not certainly kill her.
How dare you people try to say that she is
wrong for chosing to live. Let's hope
none of you are ever put in that
situation.
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FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
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Posted: 02-11-05 07:01am
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| hotasfrick
wrote: | suicide is the result of a
mental disease. A disease which can be
treated, and therefore suicide, or
assisted suicide is illegal. Yes,
because this is a fully developed person
who just needs medical help.
A fetus being aborted to save the life of
the pregnant woman is nothing like
assisted suicide. The fetus is living
off of the pregnant woman, cannot live or
develop without her and is not its own
being. If the woman who is supporting
this fetus doesn't wish to continue, that
is her right and her choice, especially if
it is going to put her life in danger if
not certainly kill her.
How dare you people try to say that she is
wrong for chosing to live. Let's hope
none of you are ever put in that
situation. |
sorry but I was reffering to people who
had terminal illness not mental illness.
Now the mental health bill is a whole new
thread.
How can society see it as ok to terminate
a pregnancy because the fetu/baby is not
going to survive birth but let a cancer
sufferer who wants to die suffer ?
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