What is bodily autonomy?
Pro-choice claim it is a right to do with
your body,what you wish to do,without
interference.
Do you have bodily autonomy in a
relationship?
I ask this because I wish to show that no
one has bodily autonomy,because everything
we do as an affect on someone else.
Today is my 9th wedding anniversary and I
was thinking,if i\my wife have bodily
autonomy then in effect we can do what we
wish.I or my wife can go out and have an
affair and the other partner cannot
argue,bodily autonomy and all that.Then
there would be tears,arguments and
recriminations.So does that stop the right
to bodily autonomy.If a woman decides that
she is having an abortion but the man
does'nt want her to,there will be tears
arguments and recriminations,again does
that not count as affecting someone else.I
can tell you for fact that it does affect
someone other than the woman.
So do we give up our right to bodily
autonomy when we enter into a
relationship?
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Re: Bodily Autonomy Posted: 02-10-05 09:50am
foreverblue
wrote:
what is bodily autonomy?
Pro-choice claim it is a right to do with
your body,what you wish to do,without
interference.
Do you have bodily autonomy in a
relationship?
I ask this because I wish to show that no
one has bodily autonomy,because everything
we do as an affect on someone else.
Today is my 9th wedding anniversary and I
was thinking,if i\my wife have bodily
autonomy then in effect we can do what we
wish.I or my wife can go out and have an
affair and the other partner cannot
argue,bodily autonomy and all that.Then
there would be tears,arguments and
recriminations.So does that stop the right
to bodily autonomy.If a woman decides that
she is having an abortion but the man
does'nt want her to,there will be tears
arguments and recriminations,again does
that not count as affecting someone else.I
can tell you for fact that it does affect
someone other than the woman.
So do we give up our right to bodily
autonomy when we enter into a
relationship?
hmm, are you saying that
there should be a law restricting her
sexuality? That it would be illegal to
have an affair? Do we now need a law for
that as well?
(on the other hand, it is essentially a
breech of contract, of a marriage
comittment. The pregnant women who abort
have never made such a committment to the
fetus, so I am not sure this applies.)
|
foreverblue
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 577
Re: Bodily Autonomy Posted: 02-10-05 10:18am
steen
wrote:
foreverblue
wrote:
what is bodily autonomy?
Pro-choice claim it is a right to do with
your body,what you wish to do,without
interference.
Do you have bodily autonomy in a
relationship?
I ask this because I wish to show that no
one has bodily autonomy,because everything
we do as an affect on someone else.
Today is my 9th wedding anniversary and I
was thinking,if i\my wife have bodily
autonomy then in effect we can do what we
wish.I or my wife can go out and have an
affair and the other partner cannot
argue,bodily autonomy and all that.Then
there would be tears,arguments and
recriminations.So does that stop the right
to bodily autonomy.If a woman decides that
she is having an abortion but the man
does'nt want her to,there will be tears
arguments and recriminations,again does
that not count as affecting someone else.I
can tell you for fact that it does affect
someone other than the woman.
So do we give up our right to bodily
autonomy when we enter into a
relationship?
hmm, are you saying that
there should be a law restricting her
sexuality? That it would be illegal to
have an affair? Do we now need a law
for that as well?
(on the other hand, it is essentially a
breech of contract, of a marriage
comittment. The pregnant women who
abort have never made such a committment
to the fetus, so I am not sure this
applies.)
what about those unmarried ones steen and
that is pure bs,bodily autonomy means I or
my wife can have sex behind the others
back causing pain splitting up
relationships but that has got to be
alright because of bodily autonomy.Why
even though I put me or my wife did you
need to say restricting her sexuality not
our sexuality.Oh by the way she enters
into a contract with her partner.I know of
a good wood supplier for your smokescreen
steen.Is'nt it funny how bodily autonomy
is ok if you want to abort or if you are a
woman but not for men,bit sexist don't you
think.Are you saying people should just be
allowed to have affairs if they want
steen,what about basic morals,love and
commitment,same commitment you have when
you get pregnant.Do you need everything to
become law before you will accept it,what
about morals steen they are not law but
most people follow morals.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Re: Bodily Autonomy Posted: 02-10-05 10:42am
foreverblue
wrote:
steen
wrote:
foreverblue
wrote:
what is bodily autonomy?
Pro-choice claim it is a right to do with
your body,what you wish to do,without
interference.
Do you have bodily autonomy in a
relationship?
I ask this because I wish to show that no
one has bodily autonomy,because everything
we do as an affect on someone else.
Today is my 9th wedding anniversary and I
was thinking,if i\my wife have bodily
autonomy then in effect we can do what we
wish.I or my wife can go out and have an
affair and the other partner cannot
argue,bodily autonomy and all that.Then
there would be tears,arguments and
recriminations.So does that stop the right
to bodily autonomy.If a woman decides that
she is having an abortion but the man
does'nt want her to,there will be tears
arguments and recriminations,again does
that not count as affecting someone else.I
can tell you for fact that it does affect
someone other than the woman.
So do we give up our right to bodily
autonomy when we enter into a
relationship?
hmm, are you saying that
there should be a law restricting her
sexuality? That it would be illegal to
have an affair? Do we now need a law
for that as well?
(on the other hand, it is essentially a
breech of contract, of a marriage
comittment. The pregnant women who
abort have never made such a committment
to the fetus, so I am not sure this
applies.)
what about those unmarried ones
steen
well, I was replying to
your post that talked about being married.
What is it you would say about it if
they were not married? If I know the
difference in your position, then I can
reply.
Quote:
and that is pure
bs,bodily autonomy means I or my wife can
have sex behind the others back causing
pain splitting up relationships but that
has got to be alright because of bodily
autonomy.
it means that it is not
illegal, that you can not physically
control what she does with her body. You
can not lock her up. You can not force
her legally to be a prostitute or to have
or not have an abortion.
Quote:
why even though I
put me or my wife did you need to say
restricting her sexuality not our
sexuality.Oh by the way she enters into a
contract with her partner.I know of a good
wood supplier for your smokescreen
steen.Is'nt it funny how bodily autonomy
is ok if you want to abort or if you are a
woman but not for men,bit sexist don't you
think.
where did I object to
bodily autonomy for men? Please don't
misrepresent me or my views.
Quote:
are you saying
people should just be allowed to have
affairs if they want
steen,
i am saying that it is
not illegal, that we should not have laws
that control other people's bodies. We
should not have laws that mandate or
prohibits abortions, organ donations,
affairs, sky diving or anything like that.
Keep the government out of people's
bodies and private lives.
Quote:
what about basic
morals,love and
commitment,
that comes from voluntary
consent, not being forced to do things.
Quote:
same commitment
you have when you get
pregnant.
only if it is a wanted or
accepted pregnancy.
Quote:
do you need
everything to become law before you will
accept it,
no. But I do need for
laws to not intrude into peoples rights to
control their own bodies.
Quote:
what about morals
steen they are not law but most people
follow
morals.
because they **choose**
to do so. Because they see the value of
doing so. People don't follow "morals"
because they are forced to (and yes, there
is nothing immoral about an abortion).
So if you want women to not abort, then
you frankly have to make it worth their
while. You have to make them chose to
remain pregnant, or help them not get
pregnnat in the first place.
That measn removing the prolife objections
against contraceptions and sex-ed. It
means not jumping on the prolife crusade
against "welfare" and other support that
makes the woman feel that she can actually
get through the pregnancy and have
anacceptable life afterwards. It means
makming it easier to have kids while also
going to school or work. It means a lot
more support than what is given sofar.
It essentially means a liberal society
rather than a conservative one. Until
you accept that switch, woemn are still at
timnes going to feel that they need to
have an abortion. You have made your
choice regarding the political system you
support. If you don't like the results,
then the political system needs to be
changed. It is that simple.
Are you voting conservative? Then you
are voting for women wanting to have
abortions. That is the consequense of
your vote. Don't let women pay for your
choice. If you don't want abortions,
don't support political systems that push
the women into having them.
|
foreverblue
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 577
Re: Bodily Autonomy Posted: 02-10-05 10:48am
steen
wrote:
foreverblue
wrote:
steen
wrote:
foreverblue
wrote:
what is bodily autonomy?
Pro-choice claim it is a right to do with
your body,what you wish to do,without
interference.
Do you have bodily autonomy in a
relationship?
I ask this because I wish to show that no
one has bodily autonomy,because everything
we do as an affect on someone else.
Today is my 9th wedding anniversary and I
was thinking,if i\my wife have bodily
autonomy then in effect we can do what we
wish.I or my wife can go out and have an
affair and the other partner cannot
argue,bodily autonomy and all that.Then
there would be tears,arguments and
recriminations.So does that stop the right
to bodily autonomy.If a woman decides that
she is having an abortion but the man
does'nt want her to,there will be tears
arguments and recriminations,again does
that not count as affecting someone else.I
can tell you for fact that it does affect
someone other than the woman.
So do we give up our right to bodily
autonomy when we enter into a
relationship?
hmm, are you saying that
there should be a law restricting her
sexuality? That it would be illegal
to have an affair? Do we now need a
law for that as well?
(on the other hand, it is essentially a
breech of contract, of a marriage
comittment. The pregnant women who
abort have never made such a committment
to the fetus, so I am not sure this
applies.)
what about those unmarried ones
steen
well, I was replying to
your post that talked about being married.
What is it you would say about it if
they were not married? If I know the
difference in your position, then I can
reply.
Quote:
and that is pure
bs,bodily autonomy means I or my wife can
have sex behind the others back causing
pain splitting up relationships but that
has got to be alright because of bodily
autonomy.
it means that it is not
illegal, that you can not physically
control what she does with her body.
You can not lock her up. You can not
force her legally to be a prostitute or to
have or not have an abortion.
Quote:
why even though I
put me or my wife did you need to say
restricting her sexuality not our
sexuality.Oh by the way she enters into a
contract with her partner.I know of a good
wood supplier for your smokescreen
steen.Is'nt it funny how bodily autonomy
is ok if you want to abort or if you are a
woman but not for men,bit sexist don't you
think.
where did I object to
bodily autonomy for men? Please don't
misrepresent me or my views.
Quote:
are you saying
people should just be allowed to have
affairs if they want
steen,
i am saying that it is
not illegal, that we should not have laws
that control other people's bodies. We
should not have laws that mandate or
prohibits abortions, organ donations,
affairs, sky diving or anything like that.
Keep the government out of people's
bodies and private lives.
Quote:
what about basic
morals,love and
commitment,
that comes from voluntary
consent, not being forced to do things.
Quote:
same commitment
you have when you get
pregnant.
only if it is a wanted or
accepted pregnancy.
Quote:
do you need
everything to become law before you will
accept it,
no. But I do need for
laws to not intrude into peoples rights to
control their own bodies.
Quote:
what about morals
steen they are not law but most people
follow
morals.
because they **choose**
to do so. Because they see the value of
doing so. People don't follow "morals"
because they are forced to (and yes, there
is nothing immoral about an abortion).
So if you want women to not abort, then
you frankly have to make it worth their
while. You have to make them chose to
remain pregnant, or help them not get
pregnnat in the first place.
That measn removing the prolife objections
against contraceptions and sex-ed. It
means not jumping on the prolife crusade
against "welfare" and other support that
makes the woman feel that she can actually
get through the pregnancy and have
anacceptable life afterwards. It means
makming it easier to have kids while also
going to school or work. It means a lot
more support than what is given sofar.
It essentially means a liberal society
rather than a conservative one. Until
you accept that switch, woemn are still at
timnes going to feel that they need to
have an abortion. You have made your
choice regarding the political system you
support. If you don't like the results,
then the political system needs to be
changed. It is that simple.
Are you voting conservative? Then you
are voting for women wanting to have
abortions. That is the consequense of
your vote. Don't let women pay for your
choice. If you don't want abortions,
don't support political systems that push
the women into having
them.
i am not an american steen or living in
america so the vote does'nt work over
here,all the partys in england are for
abortion.I did not know that pro life are
against contraception,i thought hat was
religion,as for sex education better sex
ed would be good.
|
Izzy
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 883 Location: Earth
Posted: 02-10-05 10:57am
" I was thinking,if i\my wife have bodily
autonomy then in effect we can do what we
wish.I or my wife can go out and have an
affair and the other partner cannot
argue"
this is exactly what they are promoting,
dont you understand yet, marriage is evil
in there eyes, its oppresive and
controling, they dont want marriage
because it is synominus with the family
and the family is a represive male
dominated arena where a women is expected
to by means of mans social order to give
birth and look after the child against her
will, which is why she requires legalised
abortion so she can have the enjoyment of
sex without the consiqences, making her
truely equal to men who have that freedom
from these consiquences... And religion,
well that is evil too because it promotes
all these things... Marriage, family,
life, and natural selection equality as
pure good!
Women want to break free, free from
themselves, from feminimity, they no
longer want to be feminine, but
masculine... Have a look at the youth
girls acting more and more like boys, boys
acting more and more like girls, there
playing with peoples minds.
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 02-10-05 11:27am
izzy
wrote:
" I was thinking,if i\my
wife have bodily autonomy then in effect
we can do what we wish.I or my wife can go
out and have an affair and the other
partner cannot argue"
this is exactly what they are promoting,
dont you understand yet, marriage is evil
in there eyes, its oppresive and
controling, they dont want marriage
because it is synominus with the family
and the family is a represive male
dominated arena where a women is expected
to by means of mans social order to give
birth and look after the child against her
will, which is why she requires legalised
abortion so she can have the enjoyment of
sex without the consiqences, making her
truely equal to men who have that freedom
from these consiquences... And religion,
well that is evil too because it promotes
all these things... Marriage, family,
life, and natural selection equality as
pure good!
Women want to break free, free from
themselves, from feminimity, they no
longer want to be feminine, but
masculine... Have a look at the youth
girls acting more and more like boys, boys
acting more and more like girls, there
playing with peoples
minds.
who are they you just keep saying in thier
eyes but whose eyes are you talking about?
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Re: Bodily Autonomy Posted: 02-10-05 11:38am
foreverblue
wrote:
i am not an american steen
or living in america so the vote does'nt
work over here,all the partys in england
are for
abortion.
ok.
Quote:
i did not know
that pro life are against
contraception,
you should think so.
Notably, the catholic church is opposed to
any kind of contraception. And so are
the rightwingers. One famous quote from
a famous rightwinger, phyllis schlafley is
as follows when speaking out against
contraception:
Quote:
it's very healthy
for a young girl to be deterred from
promiscuity by fear of contracting a
painful, incurable disease, or cervical
cancer, or sterility, or the likelihood of
giving birth to a dead, blind, or
brain-damaged baby (even ten years later
when she may be happily married).
Quote:
i thought hat was
religion,as for sex education better sex
ed would be
good.
you should think. But
that is before you factor in the desire to
control women through pregnancy.
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Re: Bodily Autonomy Posted: 02-10-05 11:44am
steen
wrote:
foreverblue
wrote:
i am not an american steen
or living in america so the vote does'nt
work over here,all the partys in england
are for
abortion.
ok.
Quote:
i did not know
that pro life are against
contraception,
you should think so.
Notably, the catholic church is opposed to
any kind of contraception. And so are
the rightwingers. One famous quote from
a famous rightwinger, phyllis schlafley is
as follows when speaking out against
contraception:
Quote:
it's very healthy
for a young girl to be deterred from
promiscuity by fear of contracting a
painful, incurable disease, or cervical
cancer, or sterility, or the likelihood of
giving birth to a dead, blind, or
brain-damaged baby (even ten years later
when she may be happily married).
Quote:
i thought hat was
religion,as for sex education better sex
ed would be
good.
you should think. But
that is before you factor in the desire to
control women through
pregnancy.
i beleive in contraception and i'm pro
life.
Contraception is the best way to cut down
on social terminations.
|
foreverblue
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 577
Posted: 02-10-05 11:44am
Quote:
it's very healthy for a young girl to be
deterred from promiscuity by fear of
contracting a painful, incurable disease,
or cervical cancer, or sterility, or the
likelihood of giving birth to a dead,
blind, or brain-damaged baby (even ten
years later when she may be happily
married).{quote]
very sick these people should not be
allowed into power
|
Izzy
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 883 Location: Earth
Posted: 02-10-05 11:54am
"who are they you just keep saying in
thier eyes but whose eyes are you talking
about? "
well thats a hard one because on the face
of it, it seems like feminism, but when
you look into feminism, it has a twinge of
marxist communism/nationalism
i often think of .N.O.W. As
nazi organisaton for women
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 02-10-05 12:00pm
izzy
wrote:
"who are they you just keep
saying in thier eyes but whose eyes are
you talking about? "
well thats a hard one because on the face
of it, it seems like feminism, but when
you look into feminism, it has a twinge of
marxist communism/nationalism
i often think of .N.O.W. As
nazi organisaton for
women
nazi is a very derogatery name to be
bandying around.
I don't think wanting = rights could be
classed as nazism.
|
Izzy
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 883 Location: Earth
Posted: 02-10-05 13:00pm
I will say it again, its not about
protecting rights or promoting equality,
perhaps you should do some research into
feminism, before you judge what I say.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 02-10-05 14:02pm
foreverblue
wrote:
Quote:
it's very healthy
for a young girl to be deterred from
promiscuity by fear of contracting a
painful, incurable disease, or cervical
cancer, or sterility, or the likelihood of
giving birth to a dead, blind, or
brain-damaged baby (even ten years later
when she may be happily
married).
very sick these people
should not be allowed into
power
phyllish schlafley has
the ear of the president.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Re: Bodily Autonomy Posted: 02-10-05 14:06pm
fishx
wrote:
steen
wrote:
foreverblue
wrote:
i am not an american steen
or living in america so the vote does'nt
work over here,all the partys in england
are for
abortion.
ok.
Quote:
i did not know
that pro life are against
contraception,
you should think so.
Notably, the catholic church is opposed
to any kind of contraception. And so
are the rightwingers. One famous quote
from a famous rightwinger, phyllis
schlafley is as follows when speaking out
against contraception:
Quote:
it's very healthy
for a young girl to be deterred from
promiscuity by fear of contracting a
painful, incurable disease, or cervical
cancer, or sterility, or the likelihood of
giving birth to a dead, blind, or
brain-damaged baby (even ten years later
when she may be happily
married).
Quote:
i thought hat was
religion,as for sex education better sex
ed would be
good.
you should think. But
that is before you factor in the desire to
control women through
pregnancy.
i beleive in
contraception and i'm pro life.
Contraception is the best way to cut down
on social
terminations.
ah, why can't it be
people like you who run the political
prolife organizations? Then we could
probably have reached a workable solution
long ago.
|
2ferano
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Dec 2003 Posts: 3717
Posted: 02-10-05 19:38pm
Comparing abortion to faithfulness to
one's spouse is very strange, but okay.
Yeah, if your wife went out and cheat on
you it would hurt and cause all kinds of
grief, but it is still her body and her
right. Just as it is your body and your
right to do the same. Whether or not you
do it depends on your love for one each
other. Just because you are married
doesnt' mean that you own her or she owns
you. If she wants to have a mole removed
or a tubal litigation she doesn't need
your permission, same for abortion. You
aren't the one who is pregnant. She is,
and it is her right to do what she sees
best.
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 02-11-05 07:05am
hotasfrick
wrote:
comparing abortion to
faithfulness to one's spouse is very
strange, but okay.
Yeah, if your wife went out and cheat on
you it would hurt and cause all kinds of
grief, but it is still her body and her
right. Just as it is your body and your
right to do the same. Whether or not
you do it depends on your love for one
each other. Just because you are
married doesnt' mean that you own her or
she owns you. If she wants to have a
mole removed or a tubal litigation she
doesn't need your permission, same for
abortion. You aren't the one who is
pregnant. She is, and it is her right
to do what she sees
best.
but what about what is best for the
family?
Termination although only physicaly
affects the woman emotionly it affects the
whole family.
I just do not see how a wife ,girlfriend,
sister, daughter would see a family of
emotional wrecks as being for the best
|
Izzy
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 883 Location: Earth
Posted: 02-11-05 11:24am
"but it is still her body and her right.
Just as it is your body and your right to
do the same"
well, when people get married (christian)
they take vows, these vows as chesterton
puts it is "making a date withones self in
the future" it is a vow and although there
is nothing physicaly stopping us from
cheating, its only our word and we are
only as good as our word, we actually give
up our right to go out with other people
not by social law but by gods law, if one
is unwilling to commit themselves to that
sort of thing, people should not get
married and if this is not a fundemental
idea of marriage then there is no point in
it
