fishx.. The resaon
micheal is her guardian is because he is
the person most likely to know her wishes.
She doensn't have to have said
outright " you know if I was ever pvs..
Don't let me live" and outline all the
steps she wants taken.. A simple "i
would never want to live like that" when
the subject of people living in a pvs
state was brought up.. Would do.
I personally don't know what she wants so
I really don't know what should be done as
long as it's what she would've wanted.
I did hear from bf the other day that she
had some type of living will where it said
that she didn't want to live in that state
so if that's true.. Then we have the
answer right there but I don't know if
it's true or
not.
if that was true and she had a living will
then why havent the courts, doctors or
terris solicitors seen it.
To state that she doesn't have to say she
wants to die is ridiculouse one throw away
comment should not be enough to sentence
this woman to death.
Terri is. N .O.T in pvs she is aware of
her enviroment and communicates to friends
and family with different responses.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 03-29-05 15:14pm
fishx
wrote:
are we still so sure that
anerexia nervosa was to blame for terri's
heart attack?
yes. Claims by
non-treating physicians in the face of
numerous actual evaluations of treating
physicians to the contrary really do not
carry that much weight.
Quote:
are we still
convinced that michael is such a loving
husband I certianly am
not.
of course you aren't. A
spouse can speak for their partner, except
when he/she speaks other than what you
want, because then he just needs to be
willified. The schindlers and their
spokespersons have shown an unpresedented
willingness to lie and exagurate, as well
as attempting character assasination.
Regardless of this extremely dishonest
prolife approach, the courts consistently
have looked at the facts and discarded all
the lies and prolife dishonesty that has
been spewed forth.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 03-29-05 15:27pm
fishx
wrote:
are you also aware that the
reason terri sufferd anerexia nervosa was
because of the constant physical and
emotional abuse she suffered at michael's
hand's?
really? And you can
prove this? Certainly, this flies in the
face of the reports of the schindlers and
schiavo getting very well along initially,
until schiavo finally accepted that she
wouldn't get well, several years later.
So no, we were not aware of that lie. Do
you have anything that is not from the
schindler lie site?
Quote:
this is a very
distressing case for the schindlers as
they know michael has ulterior motives for
wanting terri
dead.
nah, they just lie to
that extend.
Quote:
i also noticed
that you seem to think that terri is in
pvs but she isn't she is aware and
communicative with her family and
doctors.
not according to her
doctors, she doesn't. Again, we only
have the schindlers' lies and the now
proven dishonesty of their radical
catholic munk spokesperson who have
demonstrated a rabid desire for
exaggerations and lies to fit his
political theocratic agenda.
Quote:
there is also the
question as to why michael waited 7 years
to make his wifes so called wishes
known?
ah,m you mean until he
finally accepted that he couldn't get his
belowed wife back?
Quote:
why wait until
she became communicative before he stated
her wish to
die?
she is. Of course, not
communicative in any meaningful way,
shindler and catholic lies none
withstanding. Are you by any chance
referring to when the munk claimed that
she had expressed a desire to live by
"interpreting" her grunts and random
vociferations? Yeah, he is also the one
who claimed that she wawed to him the
other day. Such despicable liars seem to
be the only spokespersons that the radical
prolifers can gather
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 03-29-05 15:30pm
Actualy steen no a spouse should never be
able to speak for a partner that is how
country's get screwed up.
You say the schindlers are exagerating can
you prove that?
Why have you put this down to the
schindlers being pro life?
I think that this is more about them
trying to save thier daughter from being
killed in a horiffic way than about what
their political stance is
as for the courts well they wouldn't know
justice if it bit them on the a**
also every physicians oppinion should be
taken into consideration if they have had
contact with terri.
Steen you seem really hypocritcal to me
all this coming from the man who opposes
the death penalty............Forgive me
for being slightly confused.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 03-29-05 15:31pm
fishx
wrote:
steen correct me if i'm
wrong but didn't you state to me that you
do not beleive in the death
penalty?
as this has nothing to do
with capital punishment, prolife hyperbole
none withstanding, it is irrelevant that I
don't believe in the death penalty.
We are talking about terri's choice, as
has been amply proven to the courts, the
schindlers lies none withstanding.
|
foreverblue
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 577
Posted: 03-29-05 15:33pm
jlee77
wrote:
steen, you are the most
paranoid person i've ever met.
You think everyone lies. Do you call
your wife a liar when she doesn't agree
with your selfish
views?
everyones a liar except for steen no
matter what
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 03-29-05 15:34pm
jlee77
wrote:
fishx
wrote:
sorry I don't care if I do
get loads for this but american law sucks
and I think the guardian law is just
pathetic in the fact that it gives the
husband the right to decide whether or not
his spouse lives or
dies.
i agree. I think the parents should have
more of a say in a person's life because
w/o them that person wouldn't exist
anyhow.
so when your spouse, who
knows you the best, decides that you are
prolife and want to stay on, then your
parents who feel miserable about the whole
deal will push to have your ventilator
stopped, and they should just have that
power, right?
You are essentially saying that the
parents have more power over what happens
to a person than does that person's
spouse. Nice devaluation of marriage
that prolifers now are pushing.
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 03-29-05 15:35pm
steen
wrote:
fishx
wrote:
are you also aware that the
reason terri sufferd anerexia nervosa was
because of the constant physical and
emotional abuse she suffered at michael's
hand's?
really? And you can
prove this? Certainly, this flies in
the face of the reports of the schindlers
and schiavo getting very well along
initially, until schiavo finally accepted
that she wouldn't get well, several years
later.
So no, we were not aware of that lie.
Do you have anything that is not from the
schindler lie site?
Quote:
this is a very
distressing case for the schindlers as
they know michael has ulterior motives for
wanting terri
dead.
nah, they just lie to
that extend.
Quote:
i also noticed
that you seem to think that terri is in
pvs but she isn't she is aware and
communicative with her family and
doctors.
not according to her
doctors, she doesn't. Again, we only
have the schindlers' lies and the now
proven dishonesty of their radical
catholic munk spokesperson who have
demonstrated a rabid desire for
exaggerations and lies to fit his
political theocratic agenda.
Quote:
there is also the
question as to why michael waited 7 years
to make his wifes so called wishes
known?
ah,m you mean until he
finally accepted that he couldn't get his
belowed wife back?
Quote:
why wait until
she became communicative before he stated
her wish to
die?
she is. Of course, not
communicative in any meaningful way,
shindler and catholic lies none
withstanding. Are you by any chance
referring to when the munk claimed that
she had expressed a desire to live by
"interpreting" her grunts and random
vociferations? Yeah, he is also the one
who claimed that she wawed to him the
other day. Such despicable liars seem
to be the only spokespersons that the
radical prolifers can
gather
i have one thing to say to you steen you
have proven you do not check sources when
given also you never actualy provide any
sources so come on provide sources to your
claims I have provided sources for mine
they are all in the link to
terrisfight.Net including video footage
proving terri is not pvs.
Time to put your money where your mouth is
steen sources to your claoms please,
|
foreverblue
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 577
Posted: 03-29-05 15:38pm
Time to put your money where your mouth is
steen sources to your claoms please
come on sweetheart you know he would'nt
know proof or evidence if it jumped up in
front of him.
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 03-29-05 15:41pm
Ahhh now give him a chance he may surprise
us.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 03-29-05 15:41pm
fishx
wrote:
sandy to answer your first
question yes I was a macmillan nurse for 5
years I have seen people die it is not as
peaceful as you are making out and there
is also a big difference terri is not
terminaly ill nor is she
pvs.
ah, you saw that on the
schindler lie site? Sure, yup!
Quote:
it has been
stated by the medical proffesion that
there are people out there worse of than
terri ie;stephen hawkins and the late
christopher reed should we have starved
and dehydrated them to
death?
hmm, given that both of
them have/had a functioning, non-atrophied
neocortex, that claim would be an outright
lie.
Quote:
do you actualy
know anything about
terri?
you obviously don't,
seemingly getting all your info from a
biased prolife lie site set up by the
lying schindlers.
Quote:
do you realise
that there is evidence that terri's heart
attack was not brought on by anorexia
nervosa but more likely by
strangulation.
no there isn't,
schindler lies none withstanding.
Quote:
i think the fact
that michael is demanding that terri be
cremated immediatly after death is very
suspicious especialy considering terri
wanted to be buried not
cremated.
that would be after the
authopsy that he has insisted on, right?
The authopsy that will show the brain
atrophy and the lack of strangulation.
Careful what you ask for here. When the
authopsy shows that everything the
schindlers have claimed are lies, then
what? Will you then work on restoring
the reputation that you have tried to tear
down through pushing their lies? Or
will you not care because he does not have
the same political leaning as you do? I
will bet on the latter. I will bet that
when the authopsy results finally prove
all these claims to be outright lies, you
will do nothing to make up for the
hatemongering that you bought into and
have helped spread.
I will of course look for your appology to
michael and your condemnation of the
schindlers and their prolife handlers'
lies, but I am not holding my breath.
On the other hand, maybe you actually have
integrity and will do so? I know the
other mprolifers here wouldn't, but there
once was a glimmer of integrity in you.
Lets see if it has died out or not.
Quote:
as for not
believing everything you read neither do I
but most of the shindlers evidence is
video evidence so I do beleive what my
eyes can see.
all of which have been
highly and selectively edited, or did you
miss that criticism? Yes, prolifers are
very prone to lie with video, as "the
silent scream" has amply proven.
Quote:
we have seen
terri tracking a baloon with her eyes we
have seen terri laughing at jokes told to
her.
we have seen video being
made to look that way.
Quote:
for christs sake
she can even follow simple requests such
as opening her eyes when asked to or
following someone around a room with her
eyes she certianly isn't in pvs and does
not deserve nor want to
die.
hmm, before you claimed
that she wasn't bedridden and could walk
around. Now making claims about reflexes
and prolife video editing trickey somehow
is evidence? Where is the video of her
walking? No? Hmm... Makes you wonder
about all the information you are posting
about terri, almost as if you are her
treating physician.
Quote:
you say you are
pro choice but you don't seem to care
about terri's
choice.
she made her choice known
to her husband, the person that is closest
to her.
Quote:
why are you
really so dispassionate that you think the
choice should be michaels even though the
evidence points to him having ulterior
motives for wanting terri
dead?
"pointing to" yes, more
prolife lies and hate mongering. We sure
have seen that a lot over the years.
Sorry that you guys have no credibility
left in that area per many years of lies
and distortions.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 03-29-05 15:54pm
fishx
wrote:
[ have one thing to say to
you steen you have proven you do not check
sources when given also you never actualy
provide any sources so come on provide
sources to your claims I have provided
sources for mine they are all in the link
to
terrisfight.
rotflmao. Yes, another
lie site set up by prolife liars as so
many others are. Yup, good one.
Perhaps you should have paid attention
when those who are actually the treating
physicians have spoken up? Nah, because
they don't support your claims or the
outright lies spewed by the schindlers.
No, I would not use terrisfight as soutrce
for anything. Find me independent
verification of your claims, or I will
just know that it is the typical prolife
lies recycled again.
Quote:
net including
video footage proving terri is not
pvs.
i have seen the heavily
edited video fottage. It doesn't prove
any of what you claim. And notably, what
is not on video is as telling about the
schindlers' lies; all these claims about
her ongooing abilities that just happened
to never have been video taped despite the
claims that they were intact abilities?
Terri walking. Terri wawing. Terri
talking and jokjing with people.....
Nope, not one video to that extend, yet
all these claims of how she can do all
that all the time? Stinking liars the
schindlers, and the prolife radical liars
that use them as pawns in their political
sideshow.
Quote:
time to put your
money where your mouth is steen sources to
your claoms
please,
the medical testemonies
of the treating physicians are out there.
They disprove every one of the schindlers
unproven lying allegations.
Prolife should be ashamed of making a
political spectable out of a private
medical decision of a family. But then,
we have seen that prolife has no shame and
will not back away from any lie as long as
it furthers their political agenda. Nice
display of conservative behavior.
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 03-29-05 15:55pm
I will burn in hell before I ever
apologise to the likes of micheal
schiavo.
So steen still no sources just a lot of
ranting you really are begining to prove
right the very people you wish to prove
wrong.
Last time I asked for sources people said
you wouldn't give any but I said i'm sure
he will but guess what....You stayed of
the board until the post was forgotten oh
well it was a stupid mistake to make.
By the way steen i'm happy with my
integrity as is everyone that knows me so
sorry you can't hold it to ransom.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 03-29-05 15:59pm
fishx
wrote:
i will burn in hell before I
ever apologise to the likes of micheal
schiavo.
of course. When all of
schindlers claims are proven lies, and
when all the false claims that you have
sucked up and repeated are exposed, then
you do not have enough integrity to
appologize for the hatemongering and lies
that you participated in.
Not that it surprises me, as prolife of
course have shown a complete lack of
integrity.
Quote:
so steen still no
sources just a lot of ranting you really
are begining to prove right the very
people you wish to prove
wrong.
i am looking. I am
getting the legal citations from the
various cases, just have to find them
first.
Now, where is your evidence from a
reliable, non-biased site (no, the
schindlers' prolife site is rather biased
and full of lies and misrepresentations,
so if that is your evidence, then I can go
to the jay leno show for my equally
credible evidence)
Quote:
by the way steen
i'm happy with my integrity as is everyone
that knows me so sorry you can't hold it
to ransom.
the integrity that shows
you refusing to owe up to your claims even
if they are proven outright lies? Yup,
no surprise there.
|
foreverblue
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 577
Posted: 03-29-05 16:04pm
Why are you even arguing with this
fool,you know what will happen same as
always he says*i am looking for the
evidence*and never comes up with it then
if you pull him sandyallen will pop up
saying hes a doctor he hasnt got all the
time you have,though he is on 4 forums I
know of,forget him he is a joke and
everyone knows it now.
|
sandyallen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Feb 2004 Posts: 4580
Posted: 03-29-05 17:01pm
I sure do care what terri wants. You
know we all have second thoughts when
preparing for death, radiation chemo,
surgery. My husband knows what I want,
my Dr. Knows what I want and it is no
body elses business because it is written
down and I carry it with me wherever I go
and it is legal and it is not a living
will, I always talk to my patients and
clients about having this on file. My
patients have died in comfort because this
is what they wanted and I have had to jump
on some dr's. To make sure this was
done. I even had one guy pull his own
plug because he did not want his family to
have to fight to keep him alive. You
know that family does not want to lose a
family member most of the time. None of
us here knows what was written or what was
said.
I never said anything about not caring for
terri's choice, geesh, this is why I am
pro-choice, I am for choice.
No, I do not know terri personally. I
am not just talking about terri, I am
talking about hospice situations that I
have dealt with. So don't be judging
someone that you know nothing about.
Thanks,
sandy
|
sandyallen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Feb 2004 Posts: 4580
Foreverblue Posted: 03-29-05 17:25pm
You do not know what I am going to say, so
please quit lying! You are the one that
is acting like an fool.
Thanx.
Sandy
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Re: Foreverblue Posted: 03-29-05 17:50pm
Sandy, I don't think they will get it.
Their motivation is purely political
(regardless of how disgusting it is to
play prolife politics with terri's
personal life and circumstance) and as
such, facts and reality matters little to
their zeal to fit the situation to their
agenda. We see it with schiavo, we see
it with prolifers, we see it with
creationists, all often being the same
crowd, so we really shouldn't be
surprised.
|
foreverblue
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 577
Posted: 03-30-05 06:35am
Still no proof what a surprise,what makes
me laugh is the hypocrisy of it all
calling other people anti sematic whilst
spouting anti christian garbage all over
the place,steen really is a joke and the
biggest hypocrite.
