Yayyy I just got a pc.Er to admit that
termination isn't safe m2t it is in the
other forum if you want to see a peice of
history lol
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mom2trevor
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 22 Dec 2004 Posts: 694 Location: VA
Posted: 06-08-05 13:07pm
On my way to check it out :)
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steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 06-08-05 13:24pm
I am not quite sure what claim it is you
guys are "disproving here. Certainly
some women die from abortions, but so few
that it still is the safest surgical
proceudre in the us.
You guys are acting as if pc had claimed
that nobody ever had died from an
abortion? But surely not, as that would
be a lie. Pl wouldn't be so deceptive
and dishonest, would they?
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FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 06-08-05 13:26pm
I'm just pointing out that it is not as
safe as some obs/gyno's would have us
beleive.
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mom2trevor
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 22 Dec 2004 Posts: 694 Location: VA
Posted: 06-08-05 13:29pm
The cruelty of these abortion drs is what
gets me. Sending people in the street to
die, not calling ambulances..Etc....
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steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 06-08-05 13:50pm
fishx
wrote:
i'm just pointing out that
it is not as safe as some obs/gyno's would
have us
beleive.
how safe would they "have
us believe" they are?
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 06-08-05 13:52pm
mom2trevor
wrote:
the cruelty of these
abortion drs is what gets me. Sending
people in the street to die, not calling
ambulances..Etc....
again, per these
being prolife sites, I tend to take the
hyperbole and "fact" reporting with a
grain of salt. We have plenty of times
seen pl sites outright lie.
|
FISHX
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 920 Location: UK
Posted: 06-08-05 13:58pm
steen
wrote:
fishx
wrote:
i'm just pointing out that
it is not as safe as some obs/gyno's would
have us
beleive.
how safe would they "have
us believe" they
are?
well to listen to some pro choicers not
all then termination is just a walk in the
park with no risk involved.
Some say that childbirth is more
dangerouse but to be honest I cant see any
difference in the danger ratio.
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-08-05 14:19pm
steen
wrote:
i am not quite sure what
claim it is you guys are "disproving here.
Certainly some women die from
abortions, but so few that it still is the
safest surgical proceudre in the us.
You guys are acting as if pc had claimed
that nobody ever had died from an
abortion? But surely not, as that would
be a lie. Pl wouldn't be so deceptive
and dishonest, would
they?
dishonest and deceptive? Isn't that the
pot calling the kettle black? Pro-aborts
talk about choice as if it is all
inclusive. In reality
though....Pro-choice is only for a select
few. The father has no choice...Although
he helped create the child, siblings and
other relatives have no choice...Even
though that child will forever be a part
of their hearts, and certainly...The baby
has no choice.
And what about this safe surgical
procedure....Who is it safe for?
Certainly not the unborn child. And what
about the women who turn up sterile, with
infection or just plain dead? Just how
safe is that? Maybe that is considered
acceptable loss though?! And do
pro-aborts talk about the emotional
turmoil many women have the rest of their
lives after having an abortion?
I would say honesty is not a strong suit
of pro-aborts...But then again...Why
confuse you with the facts?
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-08-05 14:22pm
pcforme
wrote:
mom2trevor
wrote:
i just knew it fish...Noone
could actually *die* from
abortion...Lol...It's just not the way
abortion
works.
just like no women die from pregnancy or
child birth. Or that every aborted
fetus would have been carried to term with
no problem.
@@
pregnancy is a natural progression of
life...As is child birth. Abortion is
not. I had a child not carried to
term...In fact he was born at 27
weeks...He is alive and fine. I know of
many more born as young as 21 weeks...They
too are alive and well. So what if they
had not been carried to term....Why do you
think that is a justifcation for abortion?
Didn't they deserve a chance at life?
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steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 06-08-05 14:24pm
fishx
wrote:
steen
wrote:
fishx
wrote:
i'm just pointing out that
it is not as safe as some obs/gyno's would
have us
beleive.
how safe would they "have
us believe" they
are?
well to listen to some pro choicers not
all then termination is just a walk in the
park with no risk
involved.
hmm, I will look for such
posts. I have yet to see one.
Quote:
some say that
childbirth is more dangerouse but to be
honest I cant see any difference in the
danger ratio.
i have specifically
provided the numbers proving that wrong.
The risk of dying after giving birth is
about 15-20 times as high as from dying
after an abortion.
Again, if you don't remember, the labor
mortality is about 350-500 women per year
of 4.5 mill deliveries. The abortion
mortality is about 5-12 per year of about
1 mill abortions (monthly vital statistics
report, dhhs-phs no. 95-1120, vol 44, pp.
1-85, 1995)
[sorry, that is the newest statistical
source containing both numbers. The
annual "cdc "abortion survey" showed 11
deaths in 2001 from abortions.
Maternal mortality has not changed in any
significant way the last 15-20 years.]
you do the math
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trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-08-05 14:27pm
steen
wrote:
fishx
wrote:
steen
wrote:
fishx
wrote:
i'm just pointing out that
it is not as safe as some obs/gyno's would
have us
beleive.
how safe would they "have
us believe" they
are?
well to listen to some pro choicers not
all then termination is just a walk in the
park with no risk
involved.
hmm, I will look for such
posts. I have yet to see one.
Quote:
some say that
childbirth is more dangerouse but to be
honest I cant see any difference in the
danger ratio.
i have specifically
provided the numbers proving that wrong.
The risk of dying after giving birth is
about 15-20 times as high as from dying
after an abortion.
Again, if you don't remember, the labor
mortality is about 350-500 women per year
of 4.5 mill deliveries. The abortion
mortality is about 5-12 per year of about
1 mill abortions (monthly vital statistics
report, dhhs-phs no. 95-1120, vol 44,
pp. 1-85, 1995)
[sorry, that is the newest statistical
source containing both numbers. The
annual "cdc "abortion survey" showed 11
deaths in 2001 from abortions.
Maternal mortality has not changed in any
significant way the last 15-20 years.]
you do the
math
hmmm...Maybe the best solution to the
problem would be for women to take control
of their reproductive systems before
conception. Perhaps maybe the time to be
truly pro-choice is when it is only your
body you are dealing with. Then pregnancy
and abortion statistics would be a moot
point.
|
foreverblue
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 577
Posted: 06-08-05 14:28pm
steen
wrote:
fishx
wrote:
steen
wrote:
fishx
wrote:
i'm just pointing out that
it is not as safe as some obs/gyno's would
have us
beleive.
how safe would they "have
us believe" they
are?
well to listen to some pro choicers not
all then termination is just a walk in the
park with no risk
involved.
hmm, I will look for such
posts. I have yet to see one.
Quote:
some say that
childbirth is more dangerouse but to be
honest I cant see any difference in the
danger ratio.
i have specifically
provided the numbers proving that wrong.
The risk of dying after giving birth is
about 15-20 times as high as from dying
after an abortion.
Again, if you don't remember, the labor
mortality is about 350-500 women per year
of 4.5 mill deliveries. The abortion
mortality is about 5-12 per year of about
1 mill abortions (monthly vital statistics
report, dhhs-phs no. 95-1120, vol 44,
pp. 1-85, 1995)
[sorry, that is the newest statistical
source containing both numbers. The
annual "cdc "abortion survey" showed 11
deaths in 2001 from abortions.
Maternal mortality has not changed in any
significant way the last 15-20 years.]
you do the
math
.
Plagarism steen,where is your link or did
you do the research yourself.
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-08-05 14:37pm
foreverblue
wrote:
steen
wrote:
fishx
wrote:
steen
wrote:
fishx
wrote:
i'm just pointing out that
it is not as safe as some obs/gyno's would
have us
beleive.
how safe would they "have
us believe" they
are?
well to listen to some pro choicers not
all then termination is just a walk in the
park with no risk
involved.
hmm, I will look for such
posts. I have yet to see one.
Quote:
some say that
childbirth is more dangerouse but to be
honest I cant see any difference in the
danger ratio.
i have specifically
provided the numbers proving that wrong.
The risk of dying after giving birth is
about 15-20 times as high as from dying
after an abortion.
Again, if you don't remember, the labor
mortality is about 350-500 women per year
of 4.5 mill deliveries. The abortion
mortality is about 5-12 per year of about
1 mill abortions (monthly vital statistics
report, dhhs-phs no. 95-1120, vol 44,
pp. 1-85, 1995)
[sorry, that is the newest statistical
source containing both numbers. The
annual "cdc "abortion survey" showed 11
deaths in 2001 from abortions.
Maternal mortality has not changed in any
significant way the last 15-20 years.]
you do the
math
.
Plagarism steen,where is your link or did
you do the research
yourself.
i would be curious about a link to this
information also. I mean afterall...There
must be one. Steen would never say
anything untrue, misleading, or
dishonest....Would he???????! :roll:
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 06-08-05 14:39pm
trina1
wrote:
steen
wrote:
i am not quite sure what
claim it is you guys are "disproving here.
Certainly some women die from
abortions, but so few that it still is the
safest surgical procedure in the us.
You guys are acting as if pc had claimed
that nobody ever had died from an
abortion? But surely not, as that
would be a lie. Pl wouldn't be so
deceptive and dishonest, would
they?
dishonest and deceptive? Isn't that the
pot calling the kettle
black?
well, I was questioning
whether this was the case. You have not
dissuaded me yet.
Quote:
pro-aborts...
i don't
usually run into any of them. The last
one I know of is peter singer.
Quote:
... Talk about
choice as if it is all
inclusive.
it is about a woman
having the right to control her own bodily
resources. But then you already knew
that, so you are now being deceptive.
How pathetic.
Quote:
in reality
though....Pro-choice is only for a select
few.
like... Yeah, like the
pregnant woman. Yes, how horrible that
women actually get to have the same
self-determination over their bodily
resources as does everybody else. Hard
to relegate them to the back of the bus,
to second-class citizenship if they have
that right. I under stand your distress
at this obstruction to the pl agenda.
Quote:
the father has no
choice...
ah, yes. To bad that he
doesn't get to rule over her body even
against her will. He would make such a
good slaver, and we won't let him. How
mean of us, isn’t it? Poor pl, can't
even let the man enslave her. What *are*
you going to do about your fascist
"kinder, kirche, kuche" agenda if you
can't even push that?
Quote:
and what about
this safe surgical procedure....Who is it
safe for?
the patient.
Quote:
certainly not the
unborn child.
"unborn child"? Sounds
like an oxymoron. Like "pre-dead
corpse” or kind of like "honest pl."
Quote:
and what about
the women who turn up sterile, with
infection or just plain dead? Just how
safe is that? Maybe that is considered
acceptable loss
though?!
it happens to very few.
And yes, the women find it an acceptable
risk, or they wouldn't undergo the
procedure. All medical procedures have
risks, but the abortion just happens to be
the safest surgical procedure a woman (or
any person) can have.
If you are complaining that the safety is
not enough, then we will have to shut down
all surgeries, because all the other ones
are "even more dangerous."
Quote:
and do pro-aborts
who are these people you
talk about. As I said, I only know of
one. Who are the others? Because you
are, of course, not lying and
misrepresenting pro-choice as
pro-abortion, are you? Nah, because that
would be a dishonest misrepresentation; it
would be evidence of pl lies and
dishonesty, and you just earlier seemed to
assure me that pl are not like that.
So you couldn't possibly be that dishonest
and hypocritical. So there must be some
other people out there pushing abortion
above everything, rather than just pushing
leaving the decision to the woman. I am
sure you will enlighten me as to who they
are.
Quote:
talk about the
emotional turmoil many women have the rest
of their lives after having an
abortion?
some do, of course, as is
the case with everything. But the
research of course shows that abortions
themselves don't suddenly create
depression in women, so I am not sure what
you are trying to say here.
Quote:
would say
honesty is not a strong suit of
pro-aborts...But then again...Why confuse
you with the
facts?
well, you haven't really
given any yet, so I am not sure what you
are alluding to. Dishonesty among the
pro-aborts? Are you saying that peter
singer is dishonest? I must admit that I
don’t know enough about him to know much
about that. I have no more patience
regarding anti-choicers like him than I
have with prolife anti-choicers.
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 06-08-05 14:44pm
trina1
wrote:
pcforme
wrote:
mom2trevor
wrote:
i just knew it fish...Noone
could actually *die* from
abortion...Lol...It's just not the way
abortion
works.
just like no women die from pregnancy or
child birth. Or that every aborted
fetus would have been carried to term with
no problem.
@@
pregnancy is a natural progression of
life...
so is illness and
whatnot. Oh, but wait a moment. We
have all this unnatural interference
called "medical care." guess you object
to that as well?
Quote:
i know of many
more born as young as 21 weeks...They too
are alive and
well.
see, that is where your
claims become iffy. "many"? Given that
the very youngest survival was a large
19,6/7 neonate, and given that viability
(where survival is 50%) is at 24 weeks,
where the experienced lack of serious
mental and physical problems is only found
in 10% of the survivors, your claim on the
surface seems like a boldfaced lie. I
hope I am wrong.
Quote:
so what if they
had not been carried to term....Why do you
think that is a justifcation for abortion?
Didn't they deserve a chance at
life?
huh? All that is
irrelevant to the issue for abortion.
What matters is that nobody have the right
to use a woman's body against her will.
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steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 06-08-05 14:46pm
trina1
wrote:
hmmm...Maybe the best
solution to the problem would be for women
to take control of their reproductive
systems before
conception.
the best solution is for
them to take control all the time and for
you to yank your nose out of her uterus.
You have no business trying to control her
personal life any more than you tolerate
her interfering with your personal life.
|
foreverblue
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 577
Posted: 06-08-05 14:47pm
steen
wrote:
it would be evidence of pl
lies and
dishonesty,
.
Steen you are always saying pl lies when
one person posts something therfore
lumping all of pro life in one well in
that case as pcforme lied about me that
makes pro choice liars then,nice work
steen
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steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 06-08-05 14:48pm
foreverblue
wrote:
steen
wrote:
again, if you don't
remember, the labor mortality is about
350-500 women per year of 4.5 mill
deliveries. The abortion mortality is
about 5-12 per year of about 1 mill
abortions (monthly vital statistics
report, dhhs-phs no. 95-1120, vol 44,
pp. 1-85, 1995)
[sorry, that is the newest statistical
source containing both numbers. The
annual "cdc "abortion survey" showed 11
deaths in 2001 from abortions.
Maternal mortality has not changed in any
significant way the last 15-20 years.]
you do the
math
.
Plagarism steen,where is your link or did
you do the research
yourself.
hmm, perhaps you didn't
put your glasses on? Look up above, at
the end of the 1st paragraph.
But just in case you still don't see it,
let me repost it right here for you (well,
I will just copy it out of the text where
it was all along as a standard scientific
reference, but this way it might be more
clear to you):
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 06-08-05 14:49pm
trina1
wrote:
i would be curious about a
link to this information also. I mean
afterall...There must be one. Steen
would never say anything untrue,
misleading, or dishonest....Would
he???????!
:roll:
see the above post.
Apparently your level of literacy is as
poor as his.
