again, if you don't
remember, the labor mortality is about
350-500 women per year of 4.5 mill
deliveries. The abortion mortality is
about 5-12 per year of about 1 mill
abortions (monthly vital statistics
report, dhhs-phs no. 95-1120, vol 44,
pp. 1-85, 1995)
[sorry, that is the newest statistical
source containing both numbers. The
annual "cdc "abortion survey" showed 11
deaths in 2001 from abortions.
Maternal mortality has not changed in any
significant way the last 15-20 years.]
you do the
math
.
Plagarism steen,where is your link or did
you do the research
yourself.
hmm, perhaps you didn't
put your glasses on? Look up above, at
the end of the 1st paragraph.
But just in case you still don't see it,
let me repost it right here for you (well,
I will just copy it out of the text where
it was all along as a standard scientific
reference, but this way it might be more
clear to you):
oh how nice for you a source no one else
can verify,bs
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 06-08-05 14:50pm
foreverblue
wrote:
steen
wrote:
it would be evidence of pl
lies and
dishonesty,
.
Steen you are always saying pl lies when
one person posts something therfore
lumping all of pro life in one
rather, if that pl lied,
it would be evidence of a pl lie.
Nowhere did I say that this one lie
evidences that everything pl post always
is a lie. So I am not sure what your
gripe is?
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 06-08-05 14:53pm
foreverblue
wrote:
steen
wrote:
foreverblue
wrote:
steen
wrote:
again, if you don't
remember, the labor mortality is about
350-500 women per year of 4.5 mill
deliveries. The abortion mortality
is about 5-12 per year of about 1 mill
abortions (monthly vital statistics
report, dhhs-phs no. 95-1120, vol
44, pp. 1-85, 1995)
[sorry, that is the newest statistical
source containing both numbers. The
annual "cdc "abortion survey" showed 11
deaths in 2001 from abortions.
Maternal mortality has not changed in any
significant way the last 15-20 years.]
you do the
math
.
Plagarism steen,where is your link or did
you do the research
yourself.
hmm, perhaps you didn't
put your glasses on? Look up above,
at the end of the 1st paragraph.
But just in case you still don't see it,
let me repost it right here for you (well,
I will just copy it out of the text where
it was all along as a standard scientific
reference, but this way it might be more
clear to you):
oh how nice for you a source no one else
can verify,bs
why are you lying? Of
course you can verify it. Get the
reference the old-fashioned way. Call
your library and get the report. I am
sure that if you discovered that I was
wrong, you would gladly post that here to
'expose" me.
Sheesh, the ignorance. You guys act as
if something is only evidence if it is
posted on a website. Government
information often is found in government
archives. Didn't you know that? How
old are you?
So first you try to "trap" me in
"plagiarism" and when it is shown you that
I wasn't doing such a thing, your lack of
integrity made it impossible for you to
acknowledge your mistake, instead making
dishonest claims instead. How pathetic
and lame.
Last edited by steen on 06-08-05 14:55pm; edited 1 time in total
|
foreverblue
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 577
Posted: 06-08-05 14:54pm
steen
wrote:
foreverblue
wrote:
steen
wrote:
it would be evidence of pl
lies and
dishonesty,
.
Steen you are always saying pl lies when
one person posts something therfore
lumping all of pro life in one
rather, if that pl lied,
it would be evidence of a pl lie.
Nowhere did I say that this one lie
evidences that everything pl post always
is a lie. So I am not sure what your
gripe is?
where is the rest of my post steen because
unless you are illiterate or just plain
stupid it tells you there.
foreverblue
wrote:
steen you are always saying
pl lies when one person posts something
therfore lumping all of pro life in one
well in that case as pcforme lied about me
that makes pro choice liars then,nice work
steen
here is my post in its entirity now try
twisting that,that is the only reason I
can think of for the fact that you only
used half of my post.
|
lil_blaze2004
Supporter
Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: ,
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-08-05 17:00pm
steen
wrote:
i am not quite sure what
claim it is you guys are "disproving here.
Certainly some women die from
abortions, but so few that it still is the
safest surgical proceudre in the us.
You guys are acting as if pc had claimed
that nobody ever had died from an
abortion? But surely not, as that would
be a lie. Pl wouldn't be so deceptive
and dishonest, would
they?
do you have proof that states that it is
the safest surgical procedure. Up here
dental work is called minor surgery and
i'm sure less people die from root canals
then abortions. Not sure cause i'm
trying to find proof, but that's why
iwasasking if you had a lonk that would
tell me safest to non-safest surgeries!
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-08-05 17:45pm
steen
wrote:
trina1
wrote:
i would be curious about a
link to this information also. I mean
afterall...There must be one. Steen
would never say anything untrue,
misleading, or dishonest....Would
he???????!
:roll:
see the above post.
Apparently your level of literacy is as
poor as his.
ah....I bet you say that to all the
girls.Lol
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 06-08-05 22:50pm
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
do you have proof that
states that it is the safest surgical
procedure. Up here dental work is
called minor surgery and i'm sure less
people die from root canals then
abortions. Not sure cause i'm trying to
find proof, but that's why iwasasking if
you had a lonk that would tell me safest
to non-safest
surgeries!
well, that's what we were
taught on surgery rotation.
am j obstet gynecol. 2000 aug;183(2
suppl):s1-2.
Medical abortion: public health and
private lives.
Grimes da.
Department of obstetrics and gynecology,
university of north carolina school of
medicine, chapel hill, nc.
Pip: induced abortion is a common event in
the lives of women and their families.
Statistics show that in the us nearly half
of all women personally benefit from
abortion; hence abortion is important from
both a medical and a social standpoint.
During the 1900s, anti-abortion laws were
promulgated, subsequently resulting in the
rise of maternal mortality due to
complications from unsafe abortions. In
the mid-1960s, state laws began to change
to allow women access to safe abortions
provided by licensed physicians. Since
then, deaths from illegal abortions have
decreased substantially. It is noted that
legal abortion is one of the safest
operations in contemporary medical
practice, and its safety has improved
through the years. Surgical skills have
been enhanced and the technologies of
suction curettage abortion and dilatation
and evacuation introduced. In addition,
abortion techniques using prostaglandin,
mifepristone, methotrexate, and
misoprostol have advanced.
fam plann inf serv. 1981 apr;1(6):21-8.
Complications of induced abortion.
Hepburn s.
Pip: grimes and cates published an
extensive review of the complications of
induced abortion in 1979, and most of the
information presented is extracted from
their review. Numerous large studies have
documented that abortion is a safe
surgical procedure. Abortion morbidity is
primarily affected by 2 factors: gestation
age and abortion technique. Additional
influencing factors are type of anesthesia
used, concurrent sterilization, and
pre-existing complications. The findings
of the center for disease control (cdc)
study -- total and major complications per
100 women, by gestation, procedure,
sterilization, and anesthesia, for total
patients and for patients with followup in
the united states, 1971-1975 -- are
presented in a 2nd table. Complications
may be divided into immediate (developing
within 3 hours of the procedure), delayed
(developing from 3 hours to 28 days after
the abortion), and late (occurring 28 days
or more after the abortion). The
immediate complication of uterine
hemorrhage is difficult to evaluate
because of inconsistent definitions and
problems in estimating volumes of blood
loss. Blood transfusion rates were
reported as 0.06% for suction evacuation
at 12 weeks, 0.19% for dilatation and
evacutataion (d&e) at 13-20 weeks, and
1.53% for instilation of saline or
prostaglandins at 13-24 weeks. Uterine
perforation is a feared but rare
complication of abortion procedure. A
consistent rate of 0.2/1000 abortions had
been reported from numerous institutions
in the united states during the 2nd half
of the decade. No consistent figures are
available on the incidence of cervical
injury. This is a potentially dangerous
complication that may lead to life
threatening hemorrhage or to the formation
of fistulae. The risk of
anesthesia-related complications from
curettage abortion is 0.02/100 abortions
with paracervical anesthesia. Retained
products of conception remains 1 of the
most important causes of abortion
morbidity and may result in infection,
bleeding, or both. There is a lack of
uniform definitions and diagnostic
criteria for post-abortal pelvic
infection, which makes incidence rates
difficult to interpret. Fever is 1
objective measure of the frequency of
infectious morbidity, and incidence of
fever by method is given.
[****note this part]
the death-to-case rate for abortion is
lower than that for any other surgical
procedure. The primary factors affecting
mortality are period of gestation and type
of procedure. Death-to-case rate for
legal abortions by type of procedure and
weeks' gestation is presented in table
form. Suggestions for the prevention of
complications are outlined.
Pmid: 12263451 [pubmed - indexed for
medline]
|
lil_blaze2004
Supporter
Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: ,
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-09-05 10:35am
Ok it says it's one of the safest. I was
just wondering.
I still think getting a root canal is
safer. Might be more painfull (i
wouldn't know as i've had neither surgery)
but.... :d
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 06-10-05 18:19pm
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
ok it says it's one of
the safest. I was just wondering.
I still think getting a root canal is
safer. Might be more painfull (i
wouldn't know as i've had neither surgery)
but.... :d
hmm, the second one says
that it *is* the safest. And yes, quite
a few people die from root canals. You
are to close to the venous system that
surrounds the brain, and infections that
hit the brain are not uncommon. Another
complication is that from the brain, it is
a straight shot to the heart, and thus you
cen get infections of the heart muscle.
|
lil_blaze2004
Supporter
Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: ,
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-10-05 18:44pm
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
ok it says it's one of
the safest. I was just wondering.
I still think getting a root canal is
safer. Might be more painfull (i
wouldn't know as i've had neither surgery)
but....
:d
hmm, the second one says
that it *is* the safest. And yes, quite
a few people die from root canals. You
are to close to the venous system that
surrounds the brain, and infections that
hit the brain are not uncommon. Another
complication is that from the brain, it is
a straight shot to the heart, and thus you
cen get infections of the heart
muscle.
ya but you said the second one was older.
Ooooh ooooh what about hair
transplants??? Are they safer?? Lol
|
steen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 1797 Location: Upper Midwest
Posted: 06-10-05 19:00pm
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
steen
wrote:
lil_blaze2004
wrote:
ok it says it's one of
the safest. I was just wondering.
I still think getting a root canal is
safer. Might be more painfull (i
wouldn't know as i've had neither surgery)
but....
:d
hmm, the second one says
that it *is* the safest. And yes,
quite a few people die from root canals.
You are to close to the venous system
that surrounds the brain, and infections
that hit the brain are not uncommon.
Another complication is that from the
brain, it is a straight shot to the heart,
and thus you cen get infections of the
heart muscle.
ya but you said the second one was older.
but not necessarily
invalid. Rather, that is the common
knowledge until other data arrives. It
is just more possible thta something has
changed since that article. However, I
did a thorough search and didn't find
anything contradicting it.
Quote:
ooooh ooooh what
about hair transplants??? Are they
safer??
Lol
i haven't seen anything
about it.
|
sandyallen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Feb 2004 Posts: 4580
Posted: 06-12-05 00:39am
I have only glanced over this but I cannot
believe what I have briefed, comparing
this to a war, you have to be kidding me,
how many of you have been in a war? How
many of you have assisted with abortions
and how many of you have assisted with
baby's born that did not make it and
mothers to be that did not make it and
both mother and fetus not making it, it
must obviously be a pl joke site you guys
need to get off the computer sometime and
get in the real world, like I have been.
I have to go to work now but I am going to
try and get some time in tomorrow and go
over this better tomorrow.
Sincerely,
sandy
|
msrosie
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 369 Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks: 12
Thanked:2
Re: the Skeletons In Pro Choices Cupboard Posted: 06-12-05 11:03am
ms rosie apologies for my last post I was
out of order taking it out on you for the
lack of integrity of other pc ers.
|
sandyallen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Feb 2004 Posts: 4580
Posted: 06-14-05 01:10am
We lose them in birth also, we lost 6 last
week, and 2 of the mothers and you do not
want to know of some of the facts of the
beaten and neglected baby's. And I was
in soc. Serv. And e.R. I do not care
if you believe me or not because I see it
w/my own eyes and that is proof enough.
You cannot even get all fishes anyway. I
totally agree w/msrosie on that one.
Sincerely,
sandy
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-14-05 14:36pm
sandyallen
wrote:
we lose them in birth also,
we lost 6 last week, and 2 of the mothers
and you do not want to know of some of the
facts of the beaten and neglected baby's.
And I was in soc. Serv. And e.R.
I do not care if you believe me or not
because I see it w/my own eyes and that is
proof enough. You cannot even get all
fishes anyway. I totally agree
w/msrosie on that one.
Sincerely,
sandy
well that is about as believable as my
sister having a 21 week baby who was only
on oxygen for 48 hours. Who comes up with
these totally unbelievable stories? Lol
|
bd1012
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 31 May 2004 Posts: 1998
Posted: 06-14-05 14:46pm
Personally, i'd rather die than be a
mother right now.. I go on several
pregnancy boards and motherhood and
pregnancy is no picnic. I'm not giving up
my youth.. I refuse to settle for making
ends meet the rest of my life and giving
up my youth.. I will not waste my life..
I know there is adoption but I will not
put my body through pregnancy just to give
it up.. So if I ever get pregnant.. I
will abort.. Whether it be as simple as
walking to a clinic and having it done, or
finding my own way.. So I personally
don't care how dangerous abortion may or
not be.
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-14-05 15:40pm
bd1012
wrote:
personally, i'd rather die
than be a mother right now.. I go on
several pregnancy boards and motherhood
and pregnancy is no picnic. I'm not
giving up my youth.. I refuse to settle
for making ends meet the rest of my life
and giving up my youth.. I will not
waste my life.. I know there is adoption
but I will not put my body through
pregnancy just to give it up.. So if I
ever get pregnant.. I will abort..
Whether it be as simple as walking to a
clinic and having it done, or finding my
own way.. So I personally don't care how
dangerous abortion may or not
be.
so don't get pregnant. It ain't rocket
science.
|
bd1012
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 31 May 2004 Posts: 1998
Posted: 06-14-05 16:28pm
trina1
wrote:
bd1012
wrote:
personally, i'd rather die
than be a mother right now.. I go on
several pregnancy boards and motherhood
and pregnancy is no picnic. I'm not
giving up my youth.. I refuse to settle
for making ends meet the rest of my life
and giving up my youth.. I will not
waste my life.. I know there is
adoption but I will not put my body
through pregnancy just to give it up..
So if I ever get pregnant.. I will
abort.. Whether it be as simple as
walking to a clinic and having it done, or
finding my own way.. So I personally
don't care how dangerous abortion may or
not be.
so don't get pregnant. It ain't rocket
science.
i won't.. I'm on depo.. I don't see
myself getting pregnant anytime soon..
And btw.. Even if I could.. what do you
want me to do.. Is there some switch on
my uterus that turns fertility off? And
before you tell me not to have sex.. If I
do taht.. Then i'll have people telling
me what an unhealthy relationship me and
bf have and that sex is an important
part.. So hmm.. Since I can't please
everyone at once.. Why not please
myself.. No matter what anyone else
thinks :roll:
