Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 12 Location: gloucestershire
Lumber Puncture Posted: 11-09-05 16:22pm
Hello everybody, I wondered whether anyone
can give me any help.
I visited my doctors in feb this year, for
a headache that came on suddenly and
lasted 7 days, ,my doctor reffered me to
the hospital that day.
I was given a ct scan and told there was
no bleeding in the head, they were going
to let me home. But decided to do a
lumber puncture, firstly I had no idea
what this was, I was told to sit on the
edge of the bed and hold still whilst
arching over,
the doctor spent the next few minutes
chatting to a med students whilst I was in
this difficult position at the other side
of the bed. The doctor said I would feel
a short pinch, to which I didnt, I felt
severe eletrocution in my right hip, back,
& leg it was that bad I passed out.
I found myself waking with the doctor and
a couple of medical students staring at
me, the doctor was not at all happy and
complained the lp would have to be done
again 15 minutes later. To which it was
and this time the pain was 10 times worse,
and I screamed. I was kept in hospital
for 4 days following that, tried on very
strong tablets for migraine, they didnt
work.
When I left hospital, my husband noticed I
had brusing on my back where the lp had
been done, I woke the next morning in
terrible pain with a feeling that can only
be described as if my hip and leg had been
smashed into pieces.
My doctor said she thought I had sciatica,
now 8 months later, I cannot sit in the
car for more that 5 minutes because of the
pain running down my right leg, I cannot
bend forward at the computer, I find I am
in constant pain from lower waist of my
right side all the way down to my leg, and
it is getting worse every day.
The more I sit the more the pain gets
worse, I go swimming and its gets worse
!!!!
Has anyone else had problems with a lumber
puncture at all ??? :(
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Tamadrummer
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 710 Location: Zephyrhills,Fl
Bad Medicine Posted: 11-14-05 11:19am
Unless you are pregnant, the doctor that
did this to you messed up! There is a
very basic technology called flouroscopy
that should have been used to ensure that
the needle placement was in a good place.
Epidural medicine is placed "blind" all of
the time in pregnnt women because there is
a basic landmark area on all people that
is well accepted and safe but is no longer
the standard since the floroscope is so
much more simple and safe to use for
placement of needles in the spinal canal.
I am not sure why they would elect to go
at you using only landmarks but since he
did hit one of the nerve roots and you had
experienced the brutal pain that
accompanies nerve stimulation, they really
owe you an explaination and also an
appology.
You should contact the hospital
administration and demand that there be an
investigation into the purpose of the
puncture if they did not draw csf for
study, (menengitis test) or some other lab
that would need csf to determine your
headache trigger. (csf = cerebral spinal
fluid)
you definatly need to follow up on this
and make sure that you are healthy as well
as not injured from the placement of the
needle. Nerve damage can be totally
traumatizing and long lasting.
Good luck.
-brian
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trudy
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 12 Location: gloucestershire
Lumber Puncture Posted: 11-14-05 14:16pm
Hi & thanks for the message brian, I
did have fluid taken that was the point of
the lumber puncture, however the first one
was so bad I passed out.
The second was performed 15 minutes later,
again I had the same terrible pain, I am
so at my wits end, after I left hospital I
woke up in bed to excrusiciating pain in
my right hip it felt like someone had
smashed it into pieces, since then things
have gotten worse. I cannot sit in the
car for more than 5 minutes before the
pain radiates down my leg and my back has
a contastant pain.
I did have some bruising when I left the
hospital.
I have since seen a senior physio who says
the symptoms I have are nothing to do with
the lp., and that I have a prolapse disk
!!!
Never had any back problems in my life
before that. !!!!
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Tamadrummer
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 710 Location: Zephyrhills,Fl
Posted: 11-14-05 15:00pm
Make sure to get a second opinion. With
the lumbar spine, you will want to see an
orthopedic surgeon not a neurosurgeon
unless you have spinal cord damage.
As a side note, your spinal cord does not
go all the way down your lumbar spaces, it
stops at about l1/l2 and then the rest is
open space and so this is the reason it is
best to get csf from the lumbar region.
If you need surgery, try to have the team
working on you use the charite artificial
disk because it allows the spine to
continue to be mobil and so you are less
likly to need a second surgery and so on
because with fusion you fixate the
inter-vertebral space and move all of the
mobility from one space to another and so
the next disk will wear out sooner then it
is supposed to and you will require more
surgery.
Good luck and please keep us up to date,
-brian
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trudy
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 12 Location: gloucestershire
Lumber Puncture Posted: 11-14-05 17:11pm
Hi again brian
have you ever heard of anyone getting any
problems from a lumber puncture ???
My doctor doesnt seem to have any idea,
but she is just a general doctor & not
a specialist in backs, after I came out of
hospital and was taken off high doses of
pain killers to rid the original crushing
pain in my head that I went in with !!! I
end up with this, and then the pain
started and has never gone.
Its very frustrating not to know whats
caused it, and it being the same pain as
the needle caused, in the first place.
!!!!
I have had a mri scan and I am waiting for
the results which should be in a week.
Very slow in the uk !!!
Thanks again
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burgess04
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 14 Nov 2005 Posts: 3
Posted: 11-14-05 17:54pm
That to me sounds like lumbar herniation,
which I just had sugery for that,
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trudy
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 12 Location: gloucestershire
Posted: 11-15-05 07:18am
Was it through a lumber puncture ???
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Tamadrummer
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 710 Location: Zephyrhills,Fl
Posted: 11-18-05 13:36pm
Sorry trudy it took me so long to get back
to you. No I have not heard of too many
problems being cause from having a lumbar
puncture. The biggest risk is for there
to be infection. Otherwise the majority
of tissue is very flexable, as well as
self healing. You should be feeling
better by now as far as the punture is
concerned.
Let us know how it is going.
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ganga533
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Dec 2005 Posts: 1 Location: parra
Posted: 12-07-05 21:44pm
Hi
i had lumber punture, not once but twice.
The second time they did it made my whole
body worser now I cant walk, talk, stand
up as a long as much, I cant use my arms
and I have a back pain in my lower back.
Now i'm suing the bloody doctor.
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Tamadrummer
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 710 Location: Zephyrhills,Fl
Posted: 12-07-05 22:29pm
The symptoms you are having are so varied
that saying the lumbar puncture made this
happen is almost impossible! The
placement of the needle is no where near
the spinal cord! You are not having arm
pain from this procedure.
You may have gotten an infection and that
is causing thes symptoms and so you are
having so many symptoms but it is not the
procedure that made you like this.
Did you have no symptoms and the doctor
said "hey, lets do a lumbar puncture,
those are loads of fun and I feel like
doing one on you now".
Probably not, you had to have had
something wrong with you to have been
prescribed a puncture in the first
place.
Good luck,
brian
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seanmcki
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 1 Location: Baltimore
Bad Doctor...bad Luck Posted: 12-23-05 10:53am
Hello everyone, I have also had a horrible
experience with a spinal tap. I went to
the hospital 4 nights ago, due to an
extreme migraine. I have had similar
migraines before, due to muscle tension in
my neck. I explained this to the er
doctor, but he insisted in doing a ct scan
and a lp. The lp. Was horrifing!! I
felt stabbing pain all up and down my
back, repediatly..They left me lay there
for two more hours(without checking the
bandage), gave me two tylox and said see
ya later..I made it back to my house
(after stopping to throw up twice) and my
wife took a look at my back and was
shocked to find 19 holes that problem
doctor had made in me. I stay lying down
the rest of the day and night with a new
headache. This new headache deserves a
catagory all to its self. The mother of
all migraines..I could only stand up
momentarily for the pain would knock me to
the floor instantly. When lying flat the
pain would subside. I went to a differnt
hospital and the staff at the hospital
acted very surprized about the amount of
holes in my back. They preformed a blood
patch, which provided me with instant
relief from the headache.
Now my lower back feels extremely bruised
and I still have a dull headache. I'm
scared about what the future will hold.
How much spinal fluid can a person afford
to loose?
When does brian damage occour?
The doctor did not even have a face mask
on nor did he scrub his hands. I noticed
that at the second hospital I went to they
took great care in insuring a steril
enviroment , and the first hospital did
not even have sheets on the bed.
Im not sure, but I bet any kind of
infection in your spinal area is no
joke..
I wish I had my head on right before the
spinal tap was first done, but anyone who
gets migraines can tell you that all you
can think of is making the pain stop.
If anyone has had an experience like this
I would appreciate the insite
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Tamadrummer
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 710 Location: Zephyrhills,Fl
Posted: 12-23-05 12:42pm
The worst thing done to you was the er
giving you a narcotic analgesic to help
with heaace pain related to the lp. It is
not fully understood why it is so bad but
it is evidenced in all people that have a
leak and csf migraine that giving even
codine, will make the problem worse.
As far as the 19 holes in your back, you
are right that was a bad or really
inexperienced doc! Call a malpractice
attorney asap and get them to take
pictures of your back andif you can begin
litigation, you need to.
As far as scrubbing, it is not necessary,
latex gloves are more than adequate as
long as the doc is not touching the
catheter that is being inserted into the
spinal column. If you can go to your
family practice doc and have them look at
what happened to you and then refer you to
a doc that he trusts and works with.
As far as how much csf can you lose. I do
not know but I do know that you will need
to increase your water/gatorade intake to
allow your body to replace the lost fluid.
If you are still leaking, you need to go
to the hospital and get that hole patched
because you will never get rid of the
headache until the leake is stopped!
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trudy
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 12 Location: gloucestershire
Lumber Puncture Posted: 12-23-05 17:02pm
I have read all the replys to problems
associated with lumber punctures, I am
still in pain, 8 months later, I have had
a mri scan which shows nothing. Yet the
hospital want to offer me pain management
and ask do I want to see someone to help
me feel less depressed !!! I cannot
remember feeling depressed before the 2
lumber punctures that seemed to have
caused a pain running down my spine and
right leg & hip constantly, does
anyone have any answers to why I have
these problems because I know for sure I
have had them before the lp were done.
Thanks :roll:
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fatfamily02
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 3050 Location: Georgia, USA
Posted: 12-23-05 17:44pm
Oh my goodness. Personally I think they
punctured your disc, and possibly injured
your nerves as well. Possibly disc
pressing on nerve roots.
I have very much nerve damage and spinal
cord compromise from disc rupture, disc
bulge, and total disc compromise(l5--s1)
spinal dislocation, spina biffida occulta,
spondylolisthesis grade 2 l5 --s1.
Anyway I say this because a lot of the
symptoms you state are like the ones I
experienced with my accident. And most
of my symptoms come from the disc rupture,
disc protrusion, and the disc compromise.
And apart from the good .Lord I would have
never been the same again. For he is
truly healing my spine now. I endured
this for 4 years, before .God started to
heal me.
I had a horrible experience with lumbar
puncture too--they were doing mine for a
mylogram(after this injury) to find where
my nerves and disc were damaged. They
did the puncture without episode at all,
but by the next day--my spinal fluid was
running into my body. I had a leak in my
spinal cord. When I lay down I could
feel csf flowing to the other side of my
head. Like I was 1/2 empty. I was
drinking water by the 64 oz cups and could
not keep the fluid in there. I had
horrible horrible headaches. And
throwing up for 5 days. Then they had to
do it again in emergency dept. And put a
blood patch in to stop the leak--thank
.God it worked.
I truly hope they can do something to help
you, for I would not wish the pain I
endured with my discs on my worst enemy.
The bone pains alone were nothing,
compared to the nerve, bone, cord
compression pains I endured from the disc
rupturing and bulging.
|
fatfamily02
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 3050 Location: Georgia, USA
Posted: 12-23-05 17:50pm
tamadrummer
wrote:
the symptoms you are having
are so varied that saying the lumbar
puncture made this happen is almost
impossible! The placement of the needle
is no where near the spinal cord! You
are not having arm pain from this
procedure.
You may have gotten an infection and that
is causing thes symptoms and so you are
having so many symptoms but it is not the
procedure that made you like this.
Did you have no symptoms and the doctor
said "hey, lets do a lumbar puncture,
those are loads of fun and I feel like
doing one on you now".
Probably not, you had to have had
something wrong with you to have been
prescribed a puncture in the first
place.
Good luck,
brian
brian,
what are they puncturing if not the spinal
cord??? How do they get fluid out if
not from spinal cord? And how can csf
fluid leak if they dont touch spinal
cord???
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Tamadrummer
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 710 Location: Zephyrhills,Fl
Posted: 12-23-05 21:39pm
The spinal cord is located within the
spinal canal but it does not run all the
way down into the lumbar and sacral
sections of the spine. In most people,
the spinal cord stops at about t12/l1 or
l1/l2 not any further. This is why they
do the lp procedure in the l4/l5 or l5/s1
area.
As far as csf leaking, it leaks out the
hole that the catheter leaves when it is
pulled out. If the doc preforming the
procedure is worth his weight in salt, he
will make sure you are ok before leaving
the hospital.
You guys have had the worst treatment I
have read about when it comes to something
so sensetive as the spine and your csf.
All I can say is that you need to contact
malpractice attorneys and begin
litigation. Normally, the attorney will
also have a relationship with the best
docs to get you fixed and sue for those
fees too.
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fatfamily02
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 3050 Location: Georgia, USA
Posted: 12-23-05 23:37pm
Thanks, I still dont understand but I will
research. I do know my spinal condition
pulled on my spinal cord--and that with
spina biffida occulta, I could possibly
have a tethered spinal cord--and mine may
be longer than most pples.(past l1-l2) I
also know now, I have what they are
calling atrophy of the spinal cord--looks
like a rip or hole or stretched spot in my
spinal cord at t-7.(since my spine
dislocated and I received no treatment or
care--fighting workman's comp) for when
my spine fell forward it also fell down.
My upper spine went completely straight,
where I used to have scoliosis. (however
you spell it)
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trudy
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 12 Location: gloucestershire
Follow Up Posted: 01-01-06 16:12pm
Hi again
wouldnt a mri scan show up any problems, I
cannot believe that they think I am
depressed and dont have any of these
incrediable painful symptons, on top of
the pain in my right side, I also am
suffering with severe fatigue, joint
pains, back pain, leg pain, headaches, and
I cannot seem to find an answer. I never
had any of this before the lumber
punctures, my life is a misery now,
instead of feeling 42 I feel 72.
Trudy
quote="fatfamily02"]oh my goodness.
Personally I think they punctured your
disc, and possibly injured your nerves as
well. Possibly disc pressing on nerve
roots.
I have very much nerve damage and spinal
cord compromise from disc rupture, disc
bulge, and total disc compromise(l5--s1)
spinal dislocation, spina biffida occulta,
spondylolisthesis grade 2 l5 --s1.
Anyway I say this because a lot of the
symptoms you state are like the ones I
experienced with my accident. And most
of my symptoms come from the disc rupture,
disc protrusion, and the disc compromise.
And apart from the good .Lord I would
have never been the same again. For he
is truly healing my spine now. I
endured this for 4 years, before .God
started to heal me.
I had a horrible experience with lumbar
puncture too--they were doing mine for a
mylogram(after this injury) to find where
my nerves and disc were damaged. They
did the puncture without episode at all,
but by the next day--my spinal fluid was
running into my body. I had a leak in my
spinal cord. When I lay down I could
feel csf flowing to the other side of my
head. Like I was 1/2 empty. I was
drinking water by the 64 oz cups and could
not keep the fluid in there. I had
horrible horrible headaches. And
throwing up for 5 days. Then they had
to do it again in emergency dept. And
put a blood patch in to stop the
leak--thank .God it worked.
I truly hope they can do something to help
you, for I would not wish the pain I
endured with my discs on my worst enemy.
The bone pains alone were nothing,
compared to the nerve, bone, cord
compression pains I endured from the disc
rupturing and bulging.[/quote]
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fatfamily02
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 3050 Location: Georgia, USA
Posted: 01-01-06 17:17pm
Yeah, I was installing satellite dishes at
41 and they just say things like--well,
you are getting older. Well, it happened
over night. And I am very strong country
born and bred girl--and they say my
strength is okay for a woman. I am no
normal woman and I can kick many guys
as/ses. I am really strong, but after
this I lost all the strength in my whole
body. And instead of a healthy
strong(installing satellite dishes, moving
ladder-- fiberglass by myself, climbing on
roofs.) 41 year old I felt really old.
I just hope they find where to help you.
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Tamadrummer
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 710 Location: Zephyrhills,Fl
Posted: 01-02-06 10:02am
Trudy,
i am terribly sorry that you are still in
pain. I am very worried that you may be
suffering from an undiagnosed infection.
You should not be in any pain at all. As
I have said before, the lumbar spine is
the best place to get csf because the
spinal column is basically empty with the
exception of csf. The cord stops in most
beople at l1/2 and so it is the safest
place to get the sample.
I cannot beging to understand nor will I
pretend to have the knowledge or the
training to tell you how to procede but in
my humble opinion, you need to be looked
at from an endocrinology view point. Find
a doc that will test you for infection in
the spinal column or for other
infection/trauma.
