Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 21 Location: Manchester, England
Pro Choice And Pro Life Posted: 05-18-06 21:46pm
Much of the public debate about abortion
is dominated by extremists. Advocates on
either side argue as if they had the whole
truth. For one side, it is simply
homicide. For the other side, it is a
matter of a woman having control over her
reproductive capacities. Some pro-life
proponents identify the fetus as an
"unborn child." some pro-choice supporters
minimize the moral status of the fetus.
The easy division of people into pro-life
and pro-choice camps shows how complex
issues are reduced to simple labels and
slogans.
The emergence of new life is a continuous
process that proceeds over a period of
nine months. Designating a specific point
at which a potential person becomes an
actual person is impossible. It is not
simply the question as to whether human
life is present from conception on.
Certainly life processes are taking place,
and it is human life we are talking about.
The question is when a complete person
emerges with the fundamental rights that
persons have. No answer is fully
satisfactory. The general rule that the
further along in the process, the stronger
must be the justification for abortion may
be correct. But this principle offers
little exact guidance. This fact points
to the strength of the conservative view
that conception itself is the point beyond
which no interference is permissible.
However, not to recognize the difference
between a freshly fertilized egg and a one
year-old child is unconvincing.
Several conclusions follow.
(1) it would help if both sides recognized
the complexity of the problem. Greatly to
be desired is humility along with an
recognition that those on the other side
are not necessarily lacking in insight or
integrity. The whole truth is many-sided
and full of ambiguities. It cannot be
reduced to a matter of simple right and
wrong.
(2) the only completely satisfactory
solution to the abortion problem is to
prevent unwanted pregnancies. Once an
undesired conception occurs, an emergency
arises that introduces complexities,
difficulties, and compromises one would
prefer to avoid but cannot.
(3) some abortions may be justified, but
all abortions are to be regretted and
involve a compromise of values.
(4) justification for abortion must always
be serious and never trivial. Its casual
or routine use as a backup for
contraception is indefensible.
(5) the slogan that abortion should be
legal, safe, and rare is probably as good
a compromise as the situation allows.
(6) pro-life advocates ought to promote
effective birth control methods.
Pro-choice advocates ought to encourage
sexually responsible behavior, including
abstinence. What if they joined hands in
a common crusade against unwanted
pregnancies?
Even if we got agreement that abortion
ought to be legal, the problems would not
end there. Should unmarried teenage girls
be compelled to secure parental
permission? Regardless of which side the
law takes, some good will result, and some
harm will be done. Should a compromise be
made so that a teenage girl, lacking
parental consent, could seek an exception
from a judge? That might help, but the
applicant is then subject to whatever
biases a particular judge may have, as
well as to the delay and burden of seeking
legal aid.
No easy resolution of the abortion problem
exists. A reasonable compromise is made
difficult by the zealots on both sides who
insist on defining the issue in extremist
terms and who insist on all or nothing.
In the middle are a large body of citizens
who are troubled by abortion but who think
that to make it illegal would have even
more disastrous consequences. We need to
hear more from these more balanced voices
that are sensitive to the conflict of
values involved. The views of americans
have not changed significantly over the
past quarter of a century. Let us resolve
this issue since further debate is not
likely to change enough minds to shift the
balance of political power. It would help
if the opposing parties would engage in
conversations based on mutual respect to
work out a tolerable compromise that
neither likes but that is appropriate for
such an agonizing dilemma. Alas, in
today's "in your face" climate, the
prospect for that seems rather dim.
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Tylanas
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Posted: 05-18-06 22:34pm
You know, I do agree with everything
you've said; and I try very hard to
maintain a position during debate in which
I am willing to compromise or admit a
point to the other side. And as for your
guidelines; I agree with them entirely.
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Cambion
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Posted: 05-20-06 08:37am
You make a lot of good points, but there
is no way on earth pro-lifers and
pro-choicers would join forces, so to
speak. I've noticed a lot of pro-lifers
have a major anti-woman attitude, which is
why they try to destroy womens' rights one
by one, including one of her most
important rights. I agree that, instead
of barking at pro-choicers, pro-lifers
should show their respect for life and try
to prevent unwanted ones from existing by
advocating better forms of contraception.
Of course, it was a fundie pro-life
extremist who whined about emergency
contraception being available.
I agree with your guidelines as well,
fasttricky. Unfortunately, pro-lifers and
pro-choicers are destiend to never
understand each other.
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nightangel73
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Posted: 05-20-06 08:41am
cambion
wrote:
pro-lifers should show
their respect for life and try to prevent
unwanted ones from existing by advocating
better forms of contraception.
we do. And I am in favor of sterilizing
young women who ask for that.
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Cambion
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Posted: 05-20-06 08:58am
That's good to hear, nightangel - you many
be an exception. I've read a lot of
pro-life propaganda, and many pro-lifers
are anti-sterilization and against plan b
because it "prevents god from performing
one of his miracles"...Or something
equally retarded..
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diamond splinter
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 611 Location: ,
Posted: 05-20-06 10:00am
cambion
wrote:
that's good to hear,
nightangel - you many be an exception.
I've read a lot of pro-life propaganda,
and many pro-lifers are anti-sterilization
and against plan b because it "prevents
god from performing one of his
miracles"...Or something equally
retarded..
do you ever post with civility? Each and
everyone of your posts that I have read
always include an attack most of them
unfounded and uneducated you claim that
pro lifers are the ones in the wrong yet
it isn't us aborting .B.A.B.I.E,s. For
our own conveniance now is it.
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Carifairy
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Posted: 05-20-06 18:07pm
The main problem I have with your
statements is that aboritons should be
regretted... Ummm I have had 3 due to
birth control failure, and I am in the
healthcare field and give birth control
education, so I especially know how it
works.. I do not and will not regret my
abortions, that just seems absurd to me.
No I do nor regret my abortions, I regret
getting pregnant and my birth control
failing!
Abortion is a back up for when birth
control fails, it has no other purpose
except to terminate fetally deformed feti,
and for women who have medical
reasons..That's what abortion is for, to
terminate a pregnancy. I am sorry control
is not 100%!!!!! If it was then could be
very rare because of the perfection fo
birth control, but nothing is perfect.
I work in aboriton clinics, each woman has
her own story and her own life, I consider
none of it trivial.
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Cambion
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Posted: 05-20-06 18:58pm
Quote:
tr>
do you ever post
with civility? Each and everyone of your
posts that I have read always include an
attack most of them unfounded and
uneducated you claim that pro lifers are
the ones in the wrong yet it isn't us
aborting .B.A.B.I.E,s. For our own
conveniance now is it.
you're more dense than I thought. My
posts state my opinions, just as everyone
else's posts in this forum state their
opinions - excuse me for defending my
views. And just because my opinion
differs from yours doesn't mean i'm wrong.
Get it through your head that pro-life
opinions are not facts. Besides, I was
speaking in terms of women's rights, and
access to safe and legal abortion is a
woman's most important right, even if she
plans never to use it. Some women may
abort for convenience, but others abort
for medical reasons or personal reasons.
In any case, i'd rather see unwanted kids
aborted than kept in homes where they are
not loved or in foster care where they may
never be loved.
I had to laugh when you said my posts were
'uneducated' - are you saying that there
are no pro-lifers who spout off religious
garbage to defend their beliefs? I'm not
saying pro-lifers are wrong, but it's
wrong when they try to shove their beliefs
down every else's throats because they
somehow believe their opinions are factual
or justifiable via religion. I've never
understood pro-life logic, nor do I intend
to try.
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trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 05-22-06 18:19pm
I have been involved in this debate (pl
vs. Pc) for a very long time and along
the way I have learned a few things.
First off....Neither side has all the
answers....Or there wouldn't be a debate.
Also....I have run into a good many on
both sides of the issue that are fighting
a fight that they don't have all the facts
on. While I am very much pro-life....I
have learned that sometimes you have to
agree to disagree in this battle. Both
sides are passionate about their reasons
why they feel the way they do and we
should always remember that we aren't
fighting a faceless, nameless enemy....But
another human being who is more than just
their opinion on abortion. I have learned
that while I may not like an individuals
opinion on abortion....I still must
respect their right to have it...And since
they choose to voice that opinion on a
debate board...I do have the right to
respectfully voice my opinion also....But
I never have the right to judge them as a
person, a parent or an individual. I was
always taught that you could hate the
action....But love the person. We can
never hope to fix the problem of abortion
on a debate board....But we can use these
debates to learn and to understand why the
person behind the post feels the way they
do. Without debate we cannot have
education...And without education....We
will never find the answers to problems
such as abortion. Jmho
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Moo
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Re: Pro Choice And Pro Life Posted: 05-22-06 19:08pm
fasttricky
wrote:
(1) it would help if both sides recognized
the complexity of the problem. .... It
cannot be reduced to a matter of simple
right and
wrong.
agreed
fasttricky
wrote:
(2) the only completely
satisfactory solution to the abortion
problem is to prevent unwanted
pregnancies.
agreed
fasttricky
wrote:
(3) some abortions may be
justified, but all abortions are to be
regretted and involve a compromise of
values.
i believe in abortion for any reason so I
believe all are justified. Often the
regret about abortion is not the procedure
itself but the position one finds themself
in where they then have an abortion
fasttricky
wrote:
(4) justification for
abortion must always be serious and never
trivial. Its casual or routine use as a
backup for contraception is
indefensible.
i believe that whenever a woman aborts the
reason is serious for her. If
contraception fails then I see no reason
to not have an abortion - that woman was
obviously trying to avoid pregnancy - it's
her choice whether or not to continue the
pregnancy and I doubt many women are
casual about having a termination
fasttricky
wrote:
(5) the slogan that abortion
should be legal, safe, and rare is
probably as good a compromise as the
situation
allows.
it should be as rare as it is required but
I agree that it should always be safe and
legal.
fasttricky
wrote:
(6) pro-life advocates ought
to promote effective birth control
methods. Pro-choice advocates ought to
encourage sexually responsible behavior,
including abstinence. What if they
joined hands in a common crusade against
unwanted
pregnancies?
i agree that both sides should
want/promote sexual responsibility and
effective birth control but the fact is
that pl and pc will not agree on the
fundamental debate - abortion.
fasttricky
wrote:
should unmarried teenage
girls be compelled to secure parental
permission?
in my opinion, no. Women should be able
to obtain an abortion without parental
consent, provided they are suitably mature
to realise and understand what the
procedure is, what the possible effects of
not having/having the termination will be.
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Meandering Away
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 535
Posted: 05-25-06 01:25am
moo
wrote:
in my opinion, no. Women
should be able to obtain an abortion
without parental consent, provided they
are suitably mature to realise and
understand what the procedure is, what the
possible effects of not having/having the
termination will be.
who decides who is mature enough to
understand the procedure because grown
women sometimes do not u7nderstand the
procedure.