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emeraldcitydweller

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Re: I Would Do the Same Thing
Posted: 05-30-06 12:49pm

cowboys wrote:
emeraldcitydweller wrote:
choosing to have a child is a decision that an adult makes.




An adult also holds a job and lives outside of his or her parents’ house.




In a hypothetical situation, if I had a teenage daughter who became pregnant, she would have three choices: abort, give it up for adoption, or keep it and move out.

The emphasis here is choice. She chose to have sex and get pregnant therefore she can choose between those three options as a result.

If she chose to keep the child, then she would no longer be living in my house. If she feels she is mature and responsible enough to give birth and have a child, then she can be mature and responsible enough to be on her own and hold down a job.

Of course, i'm 100% pro-choice and i'm all for sex education in the schools (not just abstinence-only crap) and I really don’t think parents communicate enough with their kids on anything, much less sex. They think if they don’t talk about it or they simply tell their child not to do it and forbid them to use birth control, they’ll keep them from having sex and their kids will stay innocent little angels forever. I wonder when these parents will wake up and realize that method is not working? Anyway, having said that, any daughter I would have in a hypothetical situation would probably not end up pregnant because she would have the protection and contraceptives she needs and there would be an open communication policy. Teenagers, for the most part, end up pregnant as a result of dishonest or negligent parenting.

Nobody is forcing anyone into abortion, here. Adoption is a perfectly viable option. Teenagers have no business having and raising children, whether they have the help of their parents or not. Too often, they dump off the baby with their parents and go partake in the activities suitable for their age they would otherwise be enjoying had they not ended up pregnant. The children of teenage mothers often grow up to be teenage mothers themselves because they are raised in such an unfavorable, awkward environment.

I find it ironic that so many pro-life people trumpet the adoption solution, but then freak at the notion that a young girl should have to give her baby up for adoption in order to stay in the good graces of her parents.

For what it's worth, some of the people in this forum who are opposing cambion's opinion may come across as a bit more credible if they could figure out how to use proper grammar and punctuation.


wow another hypocrite pops out of the woodwork.You lot make me laugh, how can you even call yourself pro choice, when you say it's my way or the highway.That is not choice, so all pro lifers are the same as you lot, you can have the choice just limited to adoption [ which if you had of read, instead of just jumping in with both feet, you would of seen that cambion made no mention of adoption just two choices, hers and everything is cool or keep the baby and be thrown out] or keeping the child.I am amazed that so many pro choicers would try and control someones life in such a way.I has stated before would support my daughter no matter what she decided.You do not throw your child out like a dirty rag because they do not do what you want.



emeraldcitydweller wrote:
choosing to have a child is a decision that an adult makes.


what, I think you need to come back to kansas dorothy, are you saying that the decision to abort is made by children only, what a laugh.Choosing to have an abortion is a decision made by adults aswell or are you saying anyone who has an abortion is immature.I think that is so derogatory to those who have found themselves in the situation.


wow. The stupidity amazes me.

In no way would I be controlling my daughter's life. I simply would not be giving her the option to live with me any longer should she choose to have the baby and keep it. She can make whatever choice she wants. She just would not be allowed to live with me should she keep her baby.

I can't help it if your stunted brain can't grasp that concept. If you would support your daughter no matter what, then bully for you. You get the parent of the year award.

A major problem with parents today is that they do support everything their child does without any disapproval - i.E. They let their kids get away with everything and give them no guidance or restriction, which is how so many teenagers end up pregnant, on drugs, or in trouble with the law in the first place.

And no, I did not say that only children abort, you made that assumption on your own. Adults abort too. All three of those options are adult decisions, and to be perfectly honest with you, regardless of whichever one my daughter would choose, she would from that moment forward be an adult and be expected to handle herself like one.
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emeraldcitydweller

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Re: I Would Do the Same Thing
Posted: 05-30-06 12:49pm

diamond splinter wrote:



for what it is worth no body gives a hello about punctuaition they in no way detere from one's opinion


fine, look like an uneducated cretin for all I care.
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diamond splinter

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Posted: 05-30-06 12:52pm

[quote="cambion"]typical baby-humping fundie pro-lifer.
[quote]
oh dear me now we know the extent cambion would go tyo when proven what a sadistic peice of scum she really is it isn't pro lifers that want children to be able to abort to hide the peadophilia now is it?
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diamond splinter

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Re: I Would Do the Same Thing
Posted: 05-30-06 12:53pm

emeraldcitydweller wrote:
diamond splinter wrote:



for what it is worth no body gives a hello about punctuaition they in no way detere from one's opinion


fine, look like an uneducated cretin for all I care.




ooooh personal attacks on her 2nd post aren't you a big girl
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Meandering Away

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Posted: 05-30-06 12:55pm

too stupid for words wrote:
in no way would I be controlling my daughter's life. I simply would not be giving her the option to live with me any longer should she choose to have the baby and keep it. She can make whatever choice she wants. She just would not be allowed to live with me should she keep her baby.


if you do not see that has trying to control your daughter then you really are too stupid for words.That is not choice that is control get into the real world muppet.
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emeraldcitydweller

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Re: I Would Do the Same Thing
Posted: 05-30-06 12:55pm

diamond splinter wrote:
emeraldcitydweller wrote:
diamond splinter wrote:



for what it is worth no body gives a hello about punctuaition they in no way detere from one's opinion


fine, look like an uneducated cretin for all I care.




ooooh personal attacks on her 2nd post aren't you a big girl


yep. I'm a big girl who can spell. Imagine that.
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Meandering Away

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Re: I Would Do the Same Thing
Posted: 05-30-06 12:57pm

emeraldcitydweller wrote:
diamond splinter wrote:
emeraldcitydweller wrote:
diamond splinter wrote:



for what it is worth no body gives a hello about punctuaition they in no way detere from one's opinion


fine, look like an uneducated cretin for all I care.




ooooh personal attacks on her 2nd post aren't you a big girl


yep. I'm a big girl who can spell. Imagine that.



wow that must be record even for pro choice, 4 posts and already proved she has nothing of note to add to the debate, just more stupidity and hypocrisy.
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diamond splinter

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Posted: 05-30-06 12:58pm

Just a pity you have no civility to go with that ability you would find it will take you further in debate than insults
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emeraldcitydweller

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Posted: 05-30-06 13:02pm

cowboys wrote:
too stupid for words wrote:
in no way would I be controlling my daughter's life. I simply would not be giving her the option to live with me any longer should she choose to have the baby and keep it. She can make whatever choice she wants. She just would not be allowed to live with me should she keep her baby.


if you do not see that has trying to control your daughter then you really are too stupid for words.That is not choice that is control get into the real world muppet.


*laughing my butt off*

wow. I'm a muppet.

No that is not controlling anybody. Sorry but maybe she should have thought of how badly she wanted to live under my roof before she got pregnant. In fact, letting her live with me and do whatever she wants would be letting her control me, since that would essentially give me no choice in the matter at all.

The only choice she would not have is the choice to live under my roof and have me support her. That is not forcing her to do anything. Believe me, there are a lot of girls who would choose to keep the baby and move out rather than give it up or abort. At the very most I would help her with whatever I could financially, but she would not live with me or have me as a round the clock babysitter or expect me to support her decision.

I work with people whose kids have had babies in the last few months and live at home with them and they are utterly miserable. When they do come into work, they are exhausted and haggard looking and cannot focus or do anything right. They can never look forward to retirement because all of their money is going toward taking care of their grandchildren and they never get to go have time for themselves because their kids are constantly dumping their babies on them so they can go clubbing or hang out at the mall with their friends.

This is why people are so immature and responsible. Why should a girl who acted irresponsibly be given the best of both worlds? Too many girls have fun with their babies when it's convenient for them and then dump them off on their parents when times get tough so they can go have fun and party it up. Maybe if they didn't have those options they would act more like parents and not treat their babies like play dolls.

If your major hang-up in life is that someone out there may not be letting their daughter live with them if she becomes pregnant and chooses to keep the baby, then I envy you, because you must have a lot of free time on your hands and not much else to worry about. Or maybe I don't envy you, because if that's all you have to worry about, you probably have no life.
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emeraldcitydweller

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Furthermore...
Posted: 05-30-06 13:05pm

This has nothing to do with being pro choice. I could just as easily have said I was pro-life, but that I still would give my daughter the same three options.

For what it's worth to you narrowminded people, if I was pro-life, I wouldn't force my daughter into giving birth to the baby, either. If she wanted to abort I would not try to stop her even though, if I was pro-life, I would not agree with abortion. Either way, she would not be living under my roof.

Being pro-life does not mean pro-being-walked-on or pro-having-to-support-your-grandchildren. It simply means that you prefer adoption or birth over abortion. It does not mean you have to support your daughter and her baby. It's your hang up if you can't make that distinction.
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diamond splinter

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Posted: 05-30-06 13:06pm

No life hmmmm and you have I suppose that's why your on here answering posts yep makes perfect sense to me.

So if you would support her financialy what is wrong with letting her live with you but refusing to be babysitter she can still look after her child herself you do not have to babysit so why throw her out?
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diamond splinter

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Re: Furthermore...
Posted: 05-30-06 13:08pm

emeraldcitydweller wrote:
this has nothing to do with being pro choice. I could just as easily have said I was pro-life, but that I still would give my daughter the same three options.


For what it's worth to you narrowminded people, if I was pro-life, I wouldn't force my daughter into giving birth to the baby, either. If she wanted to abort I would not try to stop her even though, if I was pro-life, I would not agree with abortion. Either way, she would not be living under my roof.


Being pro-life does not mean pro-being-walked-on or pro-having-to-support-your-grandchildren. It simply means that you prefer adoption or birth over abortion. It does not mean you have to support your daughter and her baby. It's your hang up if you can't make that distinction.




maybe you should get educated on what pro life actualy means before showing your ignorance in future because it is clear you know nothing about what pro life stand for from your comment above.
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Meandering Away

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Posted: 05-30-06 13:12pm

emeraldcitydweller wrote:
cowboys wrote:
too stupid for words wrote:
in no way would I be controlling my daughter's life. I simply would not be giving her the option to live with me any longer should she choose to have the baby and keep it. She can make whatever choice she wants. She just would not be allowed to live with me should she keep her baby.


if you do not see that has trying to control your daughter then you really are too stupid for words.That is not choice that is control get into the real world muppet.


*laughing my butt off*

wow. I'm a muppet.


No that is not controlling anybody. Sorry but maybe she should have thought of how badly she wanted to live under my roof before she got pregnant. In fact, letting her live with me and do whatever she wants would be letting her control me, since that would essentially give me no choice in the matter at all.


The only choice she would not have is the choice to live under my roof and have me support her. That is not forcing her to do anything. Believe me, there are a lot of girls who would choose to keep the baby and move out rather than give it up or abort. At the very most I would help her with whatever I could financially, but she would not live with me or have me as a round the clock babysitter or expect me to support her decision.

I work with people whose kids have had babies in the last few months and live at home with them and they are utterly miserable. When they do come into work, they are exhausted and haggard looking and cannot focus or do anything right. They can never look forward to retirement because all of their money is going toward taking care of their grandchildren and they never get to go have time for themselves because their kids are constantly dumping their babies on them so they can go clubbing or hang out at the mall with their friends.


This is why people are so immature and responsible. Why should a girl who acted irresponsibly be given the best of both worlds? Too many girls have fun with their babies when it's convenient for them and then dump them off on their parents when times get tough so they can go have fun and party it up. Maybe if they didn't have those options they would act more like parents and not treat their babies like play dolls.


If your major hang-up in life is that someone out there may not be letting their daughter live with them if she becomes pregnant and chooses to keep the baby, then I envy you, because you must have a lot of free time on your hands and not much else to worry about. Or maybe I don't envy you, because if that's all you have to worry about, you probably have no life.



first of all I do have a life and a very fullfilling one thanks for asking.I do have a sixteen year old daughter and if she came home pregnant then I would support her, that does not mean I would be a round the clock babysitter for her [ though she has done plenty of babysitting her siblings for me ] nor does it mean she would have an easy time of it, though she has more sense than to get caught through recklessness, she would be the one getting up to do the feeds in the night , she would be the one who feeds, changes and looks after her child.I would be there for her if she needed advice or help, now you mention financiall help rather than just kicking them out, which in my opinion [ which I in no way claim to be law or fact it is just my opinion ] is wrong and is making her choices very limited, I would not expect an adult to have to search for somewhere to live/ work whilst pregnant or nursing, let alone a teenage child.If you were to support her, support does not mean doing everything for her then so be it but you never mentioned support of any kind just kicking her out.
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emeraldcitydweller

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Re: Furthermore...
Posted: 05-30-06 13:16pm

diamond splinter wrote:
emeraldcitydweller wrote:
this has nothing to do with being pro choice. I could just as easily have said I was pro-life, but that I still would give my daughter the same three options.



For what it's worth to you narrowminded people, if I was pro-life, I wouldn't force my daughter into giving birth to the baby, either. If she wanted to abort I would not try to stop her even though, if I was pro-life, I would not agree with abortion. Either way, she would not be living under my roof.



Being pro-life does not mean pro-being-walked-on or pro-having-to-support-your-grandchildren. It simply means that you prefer adoption or birth over abortion. It does not mean you have to support your daughter and her baby. It's your hang up if you can't make that distinction.




maybe you should get educated on what pro life actualy means before showing your ignorance in future because it is clear you know nothing about what pro life stand for from your comment above.


i know what pro-life means. Just because you're pro life doesn't mean you'll automatically let your kid and their baby live with you.

I think you're the one who is a little mixed up on what pro-life is. Case in point: a coworker of mine is very pro-life, but she's also very pro-responsibility, as in, don't get pregnant unless you can support your kid on your own. When her daughter ended up pregnant, she gave her the exact same three choices.

If I had never said I was pro-choice, and I said I was pro-life, and that I would still give my child the exact same three choices, you would still be b*tching at me. That's because it's not a pro-choice vs. Pro-life issue. It's a "oh my god how can you be so cruel not to let your daughter and her baby live with you" issue. It has nothing to do with pro-life or pro-choice.

And if you think that kids who live with their parents and have kids don't take advantage of their parents, you need a wake-up call. I see it happen all the time.
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Meandering Away

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Posted: 05-30-06 13:17pm

emeraldcitydweller wrote:
for what it's worth to you narrowminded people, if I was pro-life, I wouldn't force my daughter into giving birth to the baby, either. If she wanted to abort I would not try to stop her even though, if I was pro-life, I would not agree with abortion. Either way, she would not be living under my roof


that is the difference though isn't it, you would not support her decision, I am pro life and I still would not kick my child out if she had an abortion, how can you blame her if has you stated before, if she got pregnant it is a case of negligent parenting, so you are going to kick her out because of something you did wrong.So I think you are the one who is narrow minded not pro life.
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emeraldcitydweller

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Posted: 05-30-06 13:21pm

cowboys wrote:



first of all I do have a life and a very fullfilling one thanks for asking.I do have a sixteen year old daughter and if she came home pregnant then I would support her, that does not mean I would be a round the clock babysitter for her [ though she has done plenty of babysitting her siblings for me ] nor does it mean she would have an easy time of it, though she has more sense than to get caught through recklessness, she would be the one getting up to do the feeds in the night , she would be the one who feeds, changes and looks after her child.I would be there for her if she needed advice or help, now you mention financiall help rather than just kicking them out, which in my opinion [ which I in no way claim to be law or fact it is just my opinion ] is wrong and is making her choices very limited, I would not expect an adult to have to search for somewhere to live/ work whilst pregnant or nursing, let alone a teenage child.If you were to support her, support does not mean doing everything for her then so be it but you never mentioned support of any kind just kicking her out.


someone who is old enough to have a sixteen year old is calling people muppets? Wow.

Anyway look, good for you, but if your teenage daughter did end up pregnant, I would have to wonder how decent of a parent you really were anyway. Yes, accidents happen, but good parenting, open, honest communication, and facing reality (i.E. Your teenager is probably going to want to have sex whether you tell her to or not, so at least make sure she knows how to protect herself and prevent unwanted pregnancies, and be someone who she can go to if she needs contraceptives) keep kids from ending up pregnant. Teenage pregnancies don't happen just because it's an unavoidable occurance. They happen because teenagers have sex when they're afraid to go to their parents for contraceptives because they know their parents will try to stop them and they know nothing about sex-ed.
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diamond splinter

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Posted: 05-30-06 13:23pm

Other pro life issues
posted: 05-30-06 8:15am

------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------

we often think of pro life being an abortion/euthinasia related reveloution and for the large part it is, but as people who love and cherish life we also have other responsibilities, so here are a few issues that I believe we must tackel as part and parcel of our pro life message.

1. Nature - looking after it, respecting it and working towards an end to global warming, there can be no life without the planet.

2. Poverty - both domestic and international, poverty is a big cause of illness and death around the world as people with a pro life message we must try to help those on our door step, homeless, unemployed etc and those in other countries.

3. War - we must constantly promote action that is infavour of peacefull solutions, war is contary to the respect of human life, there are never any winners in war, only loosers, those who have lost their life and their families.

4. Racisim - racism and other prejudices are against the dignity of the human person and leads to hatred and resentment of both the person who is being presecuted and the person persicuting. Such resentment can and continues to lead to violence and sometimes killings.

5. Animal cruilty - the respect and dignity we give our animals is a reflection on how much we respect life and nature as a whole, animals should be cared for and given the best life possible until such a time as they are needed for food or until they die.

If you can think of any more issues that the pro life reveloution incorperates into itself as part of preservation of life or as part of the dignity of the human person please share it with us.

Highlighting just what beig pro life entails will give each of us a better understanding of who we are and what angel we are coming from. Abortion and euthinasia are of course the major problems and direct attack on both preservation of life and diginity of the human person, but bringing other issues into the frame also gives us and others an understanding what being pro life is

back to top


this is what pro life is not just abortion although that has to be one of the most inhumane saddistic procedures I have ever come across .


P.S thanks for the post izzy
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Carifairy

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Posted: 05-30-06 13:24pm

My 2 cents.. I am pro choice and have had 3 abortions, I had them all when I was 18 and over. I also do not want children.

Okay here's my input.. Do I think a 16 year old has all that it takes to raise a baby? No, I do not think for one minute that babies should be having babies. Boy did I think I was pretty darn smart at 16, but now as a 24 year old educated female, I realize how naive I was in a lot of areas.

Does that naivity mean a 16 year old should be forced to abort?Not in my opinion no. I also do not think a parent is the babysitter, the 16 year old wants a baby, fine, but she is taking care of it. I think too many teens have babies only to pawn them off on their parents, I still do not think this means that teens should be forced to abort. Forced to get a darn job and grow up and pay rent, yes! Teens can get their ged and get low cost daycare and take care of their own baby, albiet they may need their parents house to live in... But that does'nt mean it has to be a free ride.

I know I have opinions, and while I will never have a baby, I can only imagine what I would do...

I also think that for a 16 year old to think they are ready to "parent" , they may very well hav some issues...
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emeraldcitydweller

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Posted: 05-30-06 13:27pm

cowboys wrote:
emeraldcitydweller wrote:
for what it's worth to you narrowminded people, if I was pro-life, I wouldn't force my daughter into giving birth to the baby, either. If she wanted to abort I would not try to stop her even though, if I was pro-life, I would not agree with abortion. Either way, she would not be living under my roof


that is the difference though isn't it, you would not support her decision, I am pro life and I still would not kick my child out if she had an abortion, how can you blame her if has you stated before, if she got pregnant it is a case of negligent parenting, so you are going to kick her out because of something you did wrong.So I think you are the one who is narrow minded not pro life.


it's a hypothetical situation. My child wouldn't end up pregnant because I would be a good enough parent to see to it that she didn't. So if she did then yes, I guess it would stand to reason that somewhere along the line, I screwed up as a parent.


And that seems to be true in most cases. Like I said, accidents do happen even with the best laid plans, but everyone I work with who has a kid who ended up pregnant seems to be preoccupied with everything but their children, whether it be jewelry, clothes, cars, boyfriends, money... So in that respect, they reap what they sow. Their kid didn't pop up pregnant because they did everything they could to prevent it, their kid popped up pregnant because they ignored their kid and they were a bad parent.

Then you have those kids who, for whatever reason, are awful brats despite however much their parents love them and do for them and try to help them, and will use their parents every chance they get.


So in a way you're right - this is a silly argument because no kid of mine (even though I don't have any and never will) would end up pregnant, because i'm realistic enough to understand that teenagers need honesty, not lies, and they need to be able to come to their parents and ask for help getting contraceptives or making decisions about sex. They need good, informative, factful educations, not people trying to make sex out to be some boogeyman. Were I a parent my child would know they could come to me about sex and ask me for help with contraceptives and sexual behavior. And I am of the firm opinion that when a child is raised in a household with loving parents who spend time with their kids and actually give a hoot about what happens to them, the kids won't be choosing to have sex as teenagers in the first place. All the kids I knew in high school who started having sex at 13, 14, 15 were allowed to run wild and do whatever they wanted and their parents didn't care.
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Meandering Away

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Posted: 05-30-06 13:31pm

emeraldcitydweller wrote:
cowboys wrote:



first of all I do have a life and a very fullfilling one thanks for asking.I do have a sixteen year old daughter and if she came home pregnant then I would support her, that does not mean I would be a round the clock babysitter for her [ though she has done plenty of babysitting her siblings for me ] nor does it mean she would have an easy time of it, though she has more sense than to get caught through recklessness, she would be the one getting up to do the feeds in the night , she would be the one who feeds, changes and looks after her child.I would be there for her if she needed advice or help, now you mention financiall help rather than just kicking them out, which in my opinion [ which I in no way claim to be law or fact it is just my opinion ] is wrong and is making her choices very limited, I would not expect an adult to have to search for somewhere to live/ work whilst pregnant or nursing, let alone a teenage child.If you were to support her, support does not mean doing everything for her then so be it but you never mentioned support of any kind just kicking her out.


someone who is old enough to have a sixteen year old is calling people muppets? Wow.


Anyway look, good for you, but if your teenage daughter did end up pregnant, I would have to wonder how decent of a parent you really were anyway. Yes, accidents happen, but good parenting, open, honest communication, and facing reality (i.E. Your teenager is probably going to want to have sex whether you tell her to or not, so at least make sure she knows how to protect herself and prevent unwanted pregnancies, and be someone who she can go to if she needs contraceptives) keep kids from ending up pregnant. Teenage pregnancies don't happen just because it's an unavoidable occurance. They happen because teenagers have sex when they're afraid to go to their parents for contraceptives because they know their parents will try to stop them and they know nothing about sex-ed.



so has a parent I can stop her contraception from failing can I , I can stop her boyfriends condom from breaking can I , wow I never knew I had that power.My daughter came to us when she was fifteen and asked to go on the pill, our answer was go the doctors, in the civilised world girls do not need to ask for contraception off their parents, we are not doctors nor are we pharmacists, they can go to the doctors of their own accord and we will not be informed of the matter.My daughter knows all about sex ed and also is double sure as she is on the pill and also makes sure that he has a condom.That is being responsible she does not want a baby yet.I have taught her all about sex and how to protect herself.She has learnt well and still if all those contraceptives failed and she did get pregnant, why should I not support her, she has done everything possible to avoid it and if she decides she cannot abort then I would support that choice.
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