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trina1

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Family Seeks to Criminalize Killing Fetuses Posted: 06-21-06 17:27pm


By brent d. Wistrom the wichita eagle in the wake of their daughter's death, members of chelsea brooks' family hope to change kansas law. Kansas is one of 16 states where killing a pregnant woman is no different than m.Urdering someone who is not expecting a child, according to the national conference of state legislatures. For the past four years, kansas lawmakers have debated a bill allowing those who take an expectant mother's life to be charged with two m.Urders. But each time it has failed. Chelsea brooks, 14, was 9 months pregnant when she disappeared june 9. Her body was found thursday. Results of an autopsy have not been released. But unless it shows brooks gave birth to a live infant before she was killed, no one will be charged for the death of her unborn child. Annie brooks, chelsea's 17-year-old sister, said the family plans to start a petition supporting a law that would mandate that anyone who kills a pregnant woman be charged in the death of a fetus. Complete story http:// www.Kansas.Com/mld/kansas/news/local/14858 209.Htm

sunshine424

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Posted: 06-28-06 09:41am


What a disgrace. That baby will never be honored. :o(

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Posted: 06-28-06 21:43pm


She was also 9 months pregnant, that is obviously pregnant, and well past viability. She was but a baby herself! She should be honored first, fetus second.

Cambion

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Posted: 06-28-06 22:56pm


True, carifairy...But in this society, a pregnant woman is valued only because of what's growing inside her. No one gives a flying crap about the mother - in the case of this kid incubating another kid, I guarantee the first thought that came to most people's minds was "oh that pooooooor baby!" who cares about the mother, right? She's nothing but an incubator and a host to a developing fetus until she gives birth. It sickens me how child-centric our society is. Yes, it's tragic, but people will almost always only think of the fetus...As if the fetus has done something wonderful or noteworthy in its life (and I use that term loosely for fetuses) and will be greatly missed and the world will be permemnatly impacted by its death. The fetus means the world, but the mother is borderline worthless to some people who may read this. What benefit would people gain by making killing a pregnant woman a double homicide? Make the killer, if caught, serve two life sentences instead of one? As if they would live long enough to serve both. If people start counting fetuses as real people, how long will it be before fetuses can have more rights reserved previously for breathing, thinking people? Will they be allowed to vote someday, based on their movements in utero?

Meandering Away

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Posted: 06-29-06 02:50am

cambion wrote:

true, carifairy...But in this society, a pregnant woman is valued only because of what's growing inside her. No one gives a flying crap about the mother - in the case of this kid incubating another kid, I guarantee the first thought that came to most people's minds was "oh that pooooooor baby!" who cares about the mother, right? She's nothing but an incubator and a host to a developing fetus until she gives birth. It sickens me how child-centric our society is. Yes, it's tragic, but people will almost always only think of the fetus...As if the fetus has done something wonderful or noteworthy in its life (and I use that term loosely for fetuses) and will be greatly missed and the world will be permemnatly impacted by its death. The fetus means the world, but the mother is borderline worthless to some people who may read this.

What benefit would people gain by making killing a pregnant woman a double homicide? Make the killer, if caught, serve two life sentences instead of one? As if they would live long enough to serve both. If people start counting fetuses as real people, how long will it be before fetuses can have more rights reserved previously for breathing, thinking people? Will they be allowed to vote someday, based on their movements in utero?

what are you on, two counts of murder, one for the mother and one for the fetus.So how in hell can that be valuing the fetus above the mother, grow up as it stands the baby she chose[ there it is again choice, her choice] to keep was killed along with her so yes it should be homicide and by the legal definition it is homicide double homicide.I take it you also argued that john wayne gacy should only get one life sentence did you, didn't think so, then again he didn't kill any babies did he.

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Posted: 06-29-06 14:08pm


What we are saying is, why aren't people saying "that poor girl" instead of "her poor unborn baby"...... Why can't the womans needs and sitauation come first?

Meandering Away

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Posted: 06-29-06 14:58pm

carifairy wrote:

what we are saying is, why aren't people saying "that poor girl" instead of "her poor unborn baby"......

Why can't the womans needs and sitauation come first?

ok fair enough I understand that it should be what about the poor mother as well.In fact it should be about both not just one, just like I complained when I thought you were only concerned about the baby, you are entitled to the same.

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Posted: 06-29-06 21:21pm

carifairy wrote:

what we are saying is, why aren't people saying "that poor girl" instead of "her poor unborn baby"......

Why can't the womans needs and sitauation come first?

carifairy when you are talking about a homicide everybody thinks poor of everyone who dies from it, in this case both baby and mother. Who is saying only poor baby??

sunshine424

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Posted: 06-29-06 21:21pm


Wow....I second the "what" are you on comment. Your really upset that fetuses are considered right along with the woman aren't you cambion? What exactly is your problem/issue? The "fetus", (i call it a baby)-is a loss to society. Just because it was not born "into" the world yet does not make it any less significant. A 2nd human was killed therefore it should be double homicide. What is the problem--what do you not understand?

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Posted: 06-29-06 23:21pm

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wow....I second the "what" are you on comment. Your really upset that fetuses are considered right along with the woman aren't you cambion? What exactly is your problem/issue? The "fetus", (i call it a baby)-is a loss to society. Just because it was not born "into" the world yet does not make it any less significant. A 2nd human was killed therefore it should be double not a nice act. What is the problem--what do you not understand?

the loss of a fetus is one less burden on society as far as i'm concerned. As long as the fetus is still in the mother, it's still a parasite. It may be human, but it's not a person. Please don't make me go over the list of differences between a fetus and a person. I strongly believe in punishing someone who takes the life of a person who is already here, living, breathing and functioning...Be it a two-month old infant or a hard-working productive citizen. A creature that needs to suck the life out of another living creature in order to survive I do not classify as a person. There is nothing I do not understand - I simply look at this from a different perspective.

I'm sorry you can't accept that my opinion is different from yours.

Meandering Away

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Posted: 06-30-06 02:43am

cambion wrote:

Quote:

well im just glad the law states murder as the unlawfull taking of a human life not the unlawfull taking of a persons life.So just like pro choice have the law on thier side in regards to abortion, technically pro life have the law on their side in relation to murder of a fetus.

diamond splinter

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Posted: 06-30-06 05:27am


homicide n. The killing of a human being by a sane person, with intent, malice aforethought (prior intention to kill the particular victim or anyone who gets in the way http://dictionary.Law.Com/default2.Asp? Selected=1303&bold=\|\|\|\| in criminal law, homicide is the crime of causing the death of other human beings http://en.Wikipedia.Org/wiki /homicide s: (n) homicide, slaying, execution (unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being) verb http://wordnet. Princeton.Edu/perl/webwn?S=homicide homicide the unlawful killing of a human being with deliberate intent to kill: (1) homicide in the first degree is characterized by premeditation; (2) homicide in the second degree is characterized by a sudden and instantaneous intent to kill or to cause injury without caring whether the injury kills or not. Http://brandonlc lark.Com/glossary.Html?Letter=m not a word on personhood here so it seems that homicide is the taking the life of a human not a person.

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Posted: 06-30-06 05:42am

cambion wrote:

the loss of a fetus is one less burden on society as far as i'm concerned.

so since we all have been fetuses we all have been a burden to society. It shows that your definition of life is being a burden to society. Yeah let's kill each who cares the world will be better with less of us. You are one sick twisted woman. Just reminded me of hitler.

sunshine424

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Posted: 06-30-06 08:28am

cambion wrote:

Quote:

well obviously I have to accept your opinion don't i?
It is not that it is different, it is simply twisted, wierd, not normal. That's just it!

You can keep telling yourself that it is "human" but not a person. Hah, I like that one. And all I can really say to the above is "whatever". Does not sound too insightful, but there really are no words to respond with wish such a twisted, warp view. You say you believe in justice for a 2 month old if murdered. The 2 month old does not do much outside what a 38 week old fetus does to be honest with you. But you are arguing that because it lives inside a womb, it's inferior, and "sucking" the life out of the mother. It did not rip open the mother's stomach and climb in. You fail to see that. Hello? Is anyone in there?

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Posted: 06-30-06 12:17pm

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not a word on personhood here so it seems that homicide is the taking the life of a human not a person.

when the term "human" or "human being" is used, it is implied to be a person. When the term "human life" is used, it is made in reference to any human life, person or not. Fetuses are not human beings - they are human life, or of human nature. No dice for you yet again.

Quote:

actually yes, every human who is part of the "overpopulation" is indeed a burden, and that could be anyone...Me, you, or anyone else here. All these unnecessary people who have been born are burdens, not only on society, but on the planet. I wouldn't advocate the slaughter of the citizens already here...But I would advocate a child tax and free abortion services in an attempt to control the population. I know i'm sick and twisted, but when it comes to this issue, I simply know how to use some logic...Which some other people here have proven to be incapable of doing.

Quote:

well obviously I have to accept your opinion don't i?
It is not that it is different, it is simply twisted, wierd, not normal. That's just it!

You can keep telling yourself that it is "human" but not a person. Hah, I like that one. And all I can really say to the above is "whatever". Does not sound too insightful, but there really are no words to respond with wish such a twisted, warp view. You say you believe in justice for a 2 month old if not a nice acted. The 2 month old does not do much outside what a 38 week old fetus does to be honest with you. But you are arguing that because it lives inside a womb, it's inferior, and "sucking" the life out of the mother. It did not rip open the mother's stomach and climb in. You fail to see that. Hello? Is anyone in there?

i never said you had to accept my opinion, you imbecile. I said you should learn to accept that people have differing opinions; your whining isn't going to change anyone's mind. It would be nice if you actually read my posts in full before telling me i'm wrong by your standards.

Are you trying to tell me that there is no difference between an adult and a fetus? Whether or not you can accept it, there are differences between a human and a person - "human" is simply the species, and "person" is what they make of their human life, even though people tend to use them interchangably. And yes, I am saying that a fetus is inferior in comparison to a living person, or even an infant (as in one living outside the womb). A fetus does suck the life out of the mother...Like any other parasite, a fetus needs a host to feed off of to survive, which is, of course, the mother.

The fetus drains what it needs from the mother's body without a care in the world about how this will affect the mother. If different stages of human life could be placed on a ladder in order by how well they can function on their own, adults would be at the top, and fetuses would be at the bottom. So, physically, fetuses a.R.E. Inferior.

It's too bad so few people around here can think logically.

sunshine424

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Posted: 06-30-06 18:11pm

cambion wrote:

Quote:

not a word on personhood here so it seems that homicide is the taking the life of a human not a person.

Quote:

well obviously I have to accept your opinion don't i?
It is not that it is different, it is simply twisted, wierd, not normal. That's just it!

You can keep telling yourself that it is "human" but not a person. Hah, I like that one. And all I can really say to the above is "whatever". Does not sound too insightful, but there really are no words to respond with wish such a twisted, warp view. You say you believe in justice for a 2 month old if not a nice acted. The 2 month old does not do much outside what a 38 week old fetus does to be honest with you. But you are arguing that because it lives inside a womb, it's inferior, and "sucking" the life out of the mother. It did not rip open the mother's stomach and climb in. You fail to see that. Hello? Is anyone in there?

i never said you had to accept my opinion, you edit. I said you should learn to accept that people have differing opinions; your whining isn't going to change anyone's mind. It would be nice if you actually read my posts in full before telling me i'm wrong by your standards.

Are you trying to tell me that there is no difference between an adult and a fetus? Whether or not you can accept it, there are differences between a human and a person - "human" is simply the species, and "person" is what they make of their human life, even though people tend to use them interchangably. And yes, I am saying that a fetus is inferior in comparison to a living person, or even an infant (as in one living outside the womb). A fetus does suck the life out of the mother...Like any other parasite, a fetus needs a host to feed off of to survive, which is, of course, the mother.

The fetus drains what it needs from the mother's body without a care in the world about how this will affect the mother. If different stages of human life could be placed on a ladder in order by how well they can function on their own, adults would be at the top, and fetuses would be at the bottom. So, physically, fetuses a.R.E. Inferior.

It's too bad so few people around here can think logically.

(giggle). Omg....I'm sorry it took so long to respond. I passed out from laughing.

Your so ridiculous I cannot even respond to you.
"it's too bad so few people around here can think logically."......Boy, you are right there! Lol

again, your opinion is not "differing", it is flat out edit that's all. I read your post. You are a minority. The majority of people reading your babbling would tell you that your clearly nuts. You talk about slaughtering to control population. Ok hitler. Lol i'm sorry, this is just nonsense.

"the fetus drains from the mother w/o a care in the world." again nitwit.....The fetus did not rip open the mother's tummy and crawl in dear. Maybe someone forgot to tell you how babies are conceived. If you need a lesson on reproduction education, I can gladly give it if it gives you a edit clue.

And by the way, nothing you said has an inkling of logic. So don't fool yourself. You are a heartless monster with the capacity of a bug.

When you get a brain, or a heart, look me up.

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Posted: 06-30-06 20:16pm

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(giggle). Omg....I'm sorry it took so long to respond. I passed out from laughing.

you have no idea how much i'm laughing at your narrow-mindedness. When I think people just can't be any more dense, someone always proves me wrong. Thank you for being the shining paragon of the new low of human stupidity.

Quote:

your so ridiculous I cannot even respond to you.
"it's too bad so few people around here can think logically."......Boy, you are right there! Lol

again, your opinion is not "differing", it is flat out messed, that's all. I read your post. You are a minority. The majority of people reading your babbling would tell you that your clearly nuts. You talk about slaughtering to control population. Ok hitler. Lol i'm sorry, this is just nonsense.

so you're saying that anyone whose opinion does not fall in line with your own is screwed up? I understand you don't see things from my perspective, and you're entitled to your opinion; see, unlike you, I can accept that you don't agree with me. I can't help the fact that you're too dense to understand that not everyone agrees with you. Get that through your thick skull, and we can say we've made progress.

Also, where in any of my posts did I ever say I advocate the killing of people? I'm in no way interested in vindicating genocide. Stop putting words in my mouth; I know you want to defend your opinions, but if you're going to do so by using mine as an opposing example, at least use my actual statements rather than taking a couple words and paraphrasing the rest.

Quote:

"the fetus drains from the mother w/o a care in the world." again nitwit.....The fetus did not rip open the mother's tummy and crawl in dear. Maybe someone forgot to tell you how babies are conceived. If you need a lesson on reproduction education, I can gladly give it if it gives you a f**ing clue.

And by the way, nothing you said has an inkling of logic. So don't fool yourself. You are a heartless monster with the capacity of a bug.

When you get a brain, or a heart, look me up.

i never said the fetus climbs into the mother's uterus...I don't know where you got that from, but at this point I imagine it's futile to ask you to stop making things up. I know how babies are conceived, and I know for a fact they need the mother's body to support their existence until birth. Do you deny that a fetus feeds off the mother's body while in utero? How do you think it survives if it doesn't? Or do you still think babies come from the stork? You're the one who needs a clue.

Sorry to break the news to you, but it is you who is speaking without logic. Then again, I can't expect you to speak with logic when you never had any to begin with. You can call me any names you want, but don't expect me to be hurt by it. Unlike people like yourself, I don't need to try to insult others to make myself feel better.

When you grow a few brain cells and start acting more mature, come back and try again. I can't wait to see the hysteria you present in your next argument, considering I don't expect you to try and think or act maturely. It's both amusing and sad how much of a fool you're making yourself look like by posting your senseless blather.

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Posted: 06-30-06 22:27pm

cambion wrote:

no wonder why my bf doesn't like american women, this is how they think

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Posted: 07-01-06 08:31am

cambion wrote:

lolbahlolbah123 wrote:

can't stand a real woman with minds, huh?

and this is what they call having a mind

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Posted: 07-01-06 12:00pm

nightangel73 wrote:

cambion wrote:

the loss of a fetus is one less burden on society as far as i'm concerned.

we're all technically "burdens to society" as children, under the strictest definitions; ie someone who does not contribute to the community/to society. As children, as babies, as fetuses, we are growing, learning, etc. But it is not until we get a job and begin giving back that we take our burden off of society.