i realise this is a very old
thread but I was just wondering if anyone
could tell me whether, in a 'partial birth
abortion', the baby is alive until the
doctor pierces the skull or if steps are
taken to ensure the baby is dead at that
point.
Sorry to ask such a graphic question but I
just wondered as i'd not heard of this
procedure
before.
yes the baby is still alive until the
scissors are inserted into the skull just
think one more push and there would be a
newborn baby how sad is that
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HappyBaby
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 119 Location: UK
Posted: 07-17-06 14:25pm
I really can't believe that that is
allowed to happen, I mean the original
thread suggested that it was only in
extreme circumstances where the baby was
really badly deformed and would not
survive anyway but surely the doctors
could make sure the baby doesn't suffer
such a gruesome end?
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diamond splinter
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 611 Location: ,
Posted: 07-17-06 15:53pm
It does only happen in extreme
circumstances and never by choice if you
kwim and yes I do think it should be done
more humanly if it has to happen then why
make it more horrific than it already is
they could stop the baby's heart and
induce labour if it was needed that much
(not saying that it is right )at least
then the baby wouldn't feel anything.
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
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Posted: 07-18-06 01:29am
Actually dimond splinter is wrong.
Go check out the post I made on the
pro-choice forum, where I replied to your
original post.
The fetus is euthanised first in most
cases, scissors are not just jammed in its
head.
I don't believe it happens so much now, I
know the clinic where I had mine offered a
wide range of termination procedures,
including those for late term abortions
but not a d&x. I believe it is done
this way as it's safer for the woman.
the national right to life organization is
not exactly an unbiased source for
information. I would not post pro-choice
sites in an effort to fairly give
creedence to the issue.
In that respect, it is very difficult to
find unbiased internet sources on this
subject. You have to be very careful and
check who's funding them. Organizations
such as these may very well askew
information in their own interest, which I
wholly oppose. We already have our quota
filled of ignorance.
I found wikipedia's site on the method,
which can still be influenced so don't
even take it as completely accurate. I
do tend to believe this interesting
tidbit:
Yeah; in the old days it would have been a
newborn baby... That could not survuve
outside of the womb. It would die anyway.
Thankfully nowadays the procedure is far
more humane, and the fetuses .A.R.E
euthanised, so any possible pain they may
be capable of feeling, they don't; because
they are already dead. The skull is
collapsed in order for it to fit through
the cervix, which is smaller than what it
normally is for a real birth. They don't
do it to be cruel, or just for chucks and
giggles. It is for the mother's safety.
As others have said, theis procedure is
rarely used because most abortions happen
before the time when d&x is needed.
When it is needed, it is done carefully
and humanely.
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HappyBaby
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 119 Location: UK
Posted: 07-19-06 14:54pm
It's good to know the baby doesn't suffer
- when I tried looking it up online,
everything seemed to suggest the baby was
alive when the scissors were put in.
Even though I have not had the procedure
myself, the thought of that really
bothered me.
Thank you for the info!
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Meandering Away
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 535
Posted: 07-20-06 12:44pm
happybaby
wrote:
it's good to know the baby
doesn't suffer - when I tried looking it
up online, everything seemed to suggest
the baby was alive when the scissors were
put in. Even though I have not had the
procedure myself, the thought of that
really bothered me.
Thank you for the
info!
can I ask why if everything you have read
indicates that the baby is alive and that
scissors are inserted into its head, why
do you then believe two people who say it
isn't and one person who has showed
evidence that the baby is.
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Carifairy
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Posted: 07-20-06 13:39pm
Okay here is the deal!!!!
Pba is used when a labor and delivery
abortion, which is done for medical
reasons, goes wrong! Hydrocephalic babies
have heads whihc are 4-5 times larger than
a newborn infants head!
Before a labor and dleivery abortion the
baby is euthanized with a shot of digoxin
into the heart, pba technique is used when
the babies head cannot be delivered!
Women who tx for medical reasons want an
intact baby, they want to hold their baby
and have memorial services and other
services performed.
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Carifairy
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 2610 Location: Charlotte n.c.
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Posted: 07-20-06 13:42pm
Pba is done for medical reasons..The
technique is time consuming, especially
with the woman being in labor.
Suction abortion is used for early and
later term abortion, but when women want
to hold their baby they ask for an intact
fetus
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HappyBaby
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 119 Location: UK
Posted: 07-21-06 11:28am
cowboys
wrote:
can I ask why if everything you have read
indicates that the baby is alive and that
scissors are inserted into its head, why
do you then believe two people who say it
isn't and one person who has showed
evidence that the baby
is.
good point. I suppose it's because the
stuff I read online seemed to be from
pro-life sources and I wasn't entirely
sure how much I could trust the
information. Obviously they want to
present the procedure in suckers a light
as possible.
However, I accept that it is also perhaps
a case of myself wanting to believe that
the baby doesn't suffer. I am more
inclined to believe that with modern
technology available, a doctor would not
allow a baby to suffer in that way when
they could let it pass away with an
injection.
From what I understand, this is not a
procedure that is done unless the baby has
fatal abnormalities and will suffer if
allowed to be born so I can't believe that
the parents would allow a procedure to
occur that would mean their child died
from a stab to the head.
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Moo
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 1066 Location: London
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Posted: 07-21-06 11:34am
[quote="cowboys]
can I ask why if everything you have read
indicates that the baby is alive and that
scissors are inserted into its head, why
do you then believe two people who say it
isn't and one person who has showed
evidence that the baby is.[/quote]
i don't believe anyone has said the fetus
isn't alive when the procedure happens,
rather that it is euthanized.
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HappyBaby
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 119 Location: UK
Posted: 07-22-06 00:21am
moo
wrote:
i don't believe anyone has
said the fetus isn't alive when the
procedure happens, rather that it is
euthanized.
my understanding was that euthanised meant
the baby was killed by injection and
therefore is dead when this procedure
occurs.
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Tylanas
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Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
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Posted: 07-23-06 13:35pm
happybaby
wrote:
moo
wrote:
i don't believe anyone has
said the fetus isn't alive when the
procedure happens, rather that it is
euthanized.
my understanding was that euthanised meant
the baby was killed by injection and
therefore is dead when this procedure
occurs.
euthanisation normally means death; but
there is a possibility that it is a high
to near-lethal injection of local
anesthesia as well. I do however believe
that he fetus is killed before it is
removed, especially in cases where the
woman has to go through labor.
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Eyes Wide Shut
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 7892 Location: *UPTOWN*NEW ORLEANS*, La
Posted: 09-07-06 13:33pm
Oh my god....This caca is medical question
sick.
Sarah
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Tylanas
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Posted: 09-07-06 22:54pm
babymajic0506
wrote:
oh my god....This caca is
medical question sick.
Sarah
it is, but it is also very rare. This
procedure is almost always done on a woman
who has a real medical reason to get rid
of the fetus at such a late stage in
pregnancy. Most of the women that go
through this procedure (and again, the
d&x is extremely rare) are women who
wanted the baby, but for whatever health
reason, are unable or feel it is unethial
to the child to carry it to term. Often
in this case, the fetus is severely
deformed, has a posibility for mental
retardation, or, the mother herself is
going to die if she remains pregnant.
Again, these factors occour rarely, and
thus the procedure is preformed rarely,
and only when absolutely necessary.
