support the choice of the
pregnant minor, but I also support the
choice of her
parents.
so who would you support if a pregnant
fifteen year old wanted to keep the child
but her parents did not, are you going to
support the fifteen year
old.
.No, .Cambion only supports the choice of
the pregnant minor if that choice is to
abort.
so that is not pro choice that is pro
abortion but we will let cambion answer
for herself.That was not meant
sarcastically by the way.
|
Jules
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3743 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
Thanks: 72
Thanked:65
Posted: 09-23-06 05:33am
You're quite right. Sorry, .Cambion; I
shouldn't have pre-empted you.
|
diamond splinter
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 611 Location: ,
Posted: 09-23-06 05:42am
cambion
wrote:
Quote:
you mean you
support choice as long as she is above a
certain age, that is not
choice.
i support the choice of the pregnant
minor, but I also support the choice of
her parents. What if some
fifteen-year-old knocked-up girl decided
she wanted to keep her child? She can't
even work at that age, which means that
her own parents will be shelling out to
care for a kid that isn't even theirs.
I don't know about anyone else here, but I
think that making your parents become free
babysitters because you're not old enough
to work or you don't want to give up your
social life for parenthood (or any of the
other reasons that clarify why teenage
girls shouldn't have kids) is very unfair.
In cases where the girl keeps her kid,
the parents have no choice but to listen
to a wailing child, and, in some cases,
have no choice but to let the daughter
live with them because she's not old
enough for them to legally kick out of the
house (which, I assume, would end with the
parents being charged with child neglect
or endangerment if they did).
If you're a minor, you need parental
consent for damn near everything, and I
think it should be required for pregnant
minors who want to keep their kids. If
mommy and daddy don't want their little
princess to be a parent, then she either
gives the kid up for adoption or she
aborts. End of story, everyone else is
happy, and the girl learns a hard lesson.
It's harsh, but so isn't life
itself.
i thought you were for all options being
given yet you give only 2 if you are pro
choice you should be pro all choices not
just adoption or abortion you should be
for the choice of said minor parenting the
child she is carrying.
|
Cambion
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 748
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 09-23-06 12:01pm
Quote:
so who would you
support if a pregnant fifteen year old
wanted to keep the child but her parents
did not, are you going to support the
fifteen year
old.
considering parents have prior experience
with having and raising kids, I would back
up their decision - if they didn't mind
caring for and paying for their grandchild
while the daughter lived life normally,
then that's fine. If they wanted the girl
to give the kid away or abort it, that
should also be their call. The only
downside to this would be the a**hole
parents who think their daughter should be
punished for having sex by forcing her to
keep her child, which is why I also
support the choice of the mother,
regardless of age. It's a bit of a tough
spot.
Quote:
no, .Cambion only
supports the choice of the pregnant minor
if that choice is to
abort.
well, abortion is a choice, isn't it?
Hence the name pro-choice {sarcasm}.
Honestly, if a teen girl wants to throw
her life away because she thinks having a
baby will be fun or cute, then that's her
decision. It would be more pleasing to
see her abort an unnecessary child, but I
can't try to make a choice for her (unlike
the pro-lifers).
Quote:
i thought you
were for all options being given yet you
give only 2 if you are pro choice you
should be pro all choices not just
adoption or abortion you should be for the
choice of said minor parenting the child
she is
carrying
i am for the minor's choice, but in
certain cases I think the parents'
decision should trump that of the girl's
(i.E., lousy financial situation,
babydaddy isn't around, single parent,
mother is too young to work, etc.)
because, let's face it, most teen girls
don't know exactly what they want or what
they can handle. If you don't believe me,
go check out some of the trainwrecks in
the teen pregnancy forum. Sometimes,
momma really does know best (and not
momma-to-be).
Like I said previously, it's something I
cannot decide definitely on - each path
has its pros and cons.
|
Cambion
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 748
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 09-23-06 12:13pm
Quote:
so who would you
support if a pregnant fifteen year old
wanted to keep the child but her parents
did not, are you going to support the
fifteen year
old.
considering parents have prior experience
with having and raising kids, I would back
up their decision - if they didn't mind
caring for and paying for their grandchild
while the daughter lived life normally,
then that's fine. If they wanted the girl
to give the kid away or abort it, that
should also be their call. The only
downside to this would be the a**hole
parents who think their daughter should be
punished for having sex by forcing her to
keep her child, which is why I also
support the choice of the mother,
regardless of age. It's a bit of a tough
spot.
Quote:
no, .Cambion only
supports the choice of the pregnant minor
if that choice is to
abort.
well, abortion is a choice, isn't it?
Hence the name pro-choice {sarcasm}.
Honestly, if a teen girl wants to throw
her life away because she thinks having a
baby will be fun or cute, then that's her
decision. It would be more pleasing to
see her abort an unnecessary child, but I
can't try to make a choice for her (unlike
the pro-lifers).
Quote:
i thought you
were for all options being given yet you
give only 2 if you are pro choice you
should be pro all choices not just
adoption or abortion you should be for the
choice of said minor parenting the child
she is
carrying
i am for the minor's choice, but in
certain cases I think the parents'
decision should trump that of the girl's
(i.E., lousy financial situation,
babydaddy isn't around, single parent,
mother is too young to work, etc.)
because, let's face it, most teen girls
don't know exactly what they want or what
they can handle. If you don't believe me,
go check out some of the trainwrecks in
the teen pregnancy forum. Sometimes,
momma really does know best (and not
momma-to-be).
Like I said previously, it's something I
cannot decide definitely on - each path
has its pros and cons.
|
nightangel73
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 2460 Location: ,
Thanks: 14
Thanked:7
Posted: 09-24-06 00:07am
eiri
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
stillherelosers
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
show it to
me
only born humans are classified are
entitled to personhood. Just because
you don't like the us constitution,
doesn't change
that.
so because the us constitution says it I
should agree with it? Well the bible
says that unborn humans are people and we
shall not kill them. But you will not
agree with the bible becuase you don't
like it right? So if the bible is
invalid for you, the us constitution is
just as invalid to
me.
then leave america. People who don't
believe the bible are not christian.
People who don't want to listen to the us
constitution should
leave.
hahaha so you say because I don't believe
in every single word of the us
constitution I should leave? Are you
smoking crack eiri? But let me tell you
it would be nice to live in europe. I
would love to live in germany or
australia.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 09-24-06 01:42am
nightangel73
wrote:
eiri
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
stillherelosers
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
show it to
me
only born humans are classified are
entitled to personhood. Just because
you don't like the us constitution,
doesn't change
that.
so because the us constitution says it I
should agree with it? Well the bible
says that unborn humans are people and we
shall not kill them. But you will not
agree with the bible becuase you don't
like it right? So if the bible is
invalid for you, the us constitution is
just as invalid to
me.
then leave america. People who don't
believe the bible are not christian.
People who don't want to listen to the us
constitution should
leave.
hahaha so you say because I don't believe
in every single word of the us
constitution I should leave? Are you
smoking crack eiri? But let me tell you
it would be nice to live in europe. I
would love to live in germany or
australia.
my comparison is quite legal. Do you find
it atrocious? Honestly; if you don't
agree with the laws of the land, then
either find a legal way to change them
that doesn't infringe upon the rights of
other born people - which is impossible -
or, as people who don't believe in parts
of the bible - stop calling yourself
american. You can't truly be christian or
catholic unless you believe the whole
bible, in my opinion. That is a true
member of the religion. Otherwise you're
just lying to yourself and believing the
parts you want ot believe, and dumping out
the rest because it doesn't suit you. So,
you better remember to worship correctly
on the holy day; and as a woman, you must
cover your hair as it seduces men. With a
shawl. Also, remember not to stand or
move much during your period; in fact,
sitting outside the house so you don't
soil any of the men's things is better
yet.
Any blemish found upon your skin, means
you might have leprosy. Again, seven more
days of cleansing. You must obey your
man's every single command.
Yes, the sermon on th mount "changed" a
bunch of this... But much of it is still
there. So pork is okay now. But i'm
pretty sure women are still slaves to
their husbands.
|
sandyallen
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Feb 2004 Posts: 4580
Posted: 09-24-06 15:52pm
If my .Daughter was 15 and pregnant, I
would give her her choice and I would sit
her down and have a little heart to heart
talk to her because if she would decide to
still continue with her pregnancy, she
would continue with school and their would
be rules as she is living under my roof
and she could be doing things around the
house until she got a job and if she
wanted to go to college that would be fine
too. It is her choice of what she wants
to do. I would not be the parent, only
the grandparent.
|
nightangel73
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 2460 Location: ,
Thanks: 14
Thanked:7
Posted: 09-24-06 20:21pm
eiri
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
eiri
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
stillherelosers
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
show it to
me
only born humans are classified are
entitled to personhood. Just
because you don't like the us
constitution, doesn't change
that.
so because the us constitution says it I
should agree with it? Well the bible
says that unborn humans are people and we
shall not kill them. But you will not
agree with the bible becuase you don't
like it right? So if the bible is
invalid for you, the us constitution is
just as invalid to
me.
then leave america. People who don't
believe the bible are not christian.
People who don't want to listen to the us
constitution should
leave.
hahaha so you say because I don't believe
in every single word of the us
constitution I should leave? Are you
smoking crack eiri? But let me tell you
it would be nice to live in europe. I
would love to live in germany or
australia.
my comparison is quite legal. Do you
find it atrocious? Honestly; if you
don't agree with the laws of the land,
then either find a legal way to change
them that doesn't infringe upon the rights
of other born people - which is impossible
- or, as people who don't believe in parts
of the bible - stop calling yourself
american. You can't truly be christian
or catholic unless you believe the whole
bible, in my opinion. That is a true
member of the religion. Otherwise you're
just lying to yourself and believing the
parts you want ot believe, and dumping out
the rest because it doesn't suit you.
So, you better remember to worship
correctly on the holy day; and as a woman,
you must cover your hair as it seduces
men. With a shawl. Also, remember not
to stand or move much during your period;
in fact, sitting outside the house so you
don't soil any of the men's things is
better yet.
Any blemish found upon your skin, means
you might have leprosy. Again, seven
more days of cleansing. You must obey
your man's every single command.
Yes, the sermon on th mount "changed" a
bunch of this... But much of it is still
there. So pork is okay now. But i'm
pretty sure women are still slaves to
their
husbands.
eiri do you believe in all the president
of the united states george w. Bush says
and do? Then if you don't you should
leave america as well. Hahahaha
look eiri you silly girl I am not
infringing with the laws of the land. I
am only saying in this public forum with
the freedom of speech granted by the
constituion you that I believe that
fetuses are people. I have no intention
to change the law, do you understand that?
I don't care what the law says. The law
doesn't apply to me because I have no
plans of having any abortions to begin
with. You do need to worry about the law
to not change because you would have
abortions. I could care less girl.
|
diamondsz
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 3173 Location: , Candyland-Canada
Thanks: 74
Thanked:104
Posted: 09-24-06 21:05pm
Wrong
when you signed up to this forum you gave
up your rights of freedom, so if you dont
like it then leave, if one of my posts get
locked I dont flip because it was done so
for a reason.
Our countries are multi-religious but our
law is the base of =our countries whether
it be canada or the .U.S, as far as im
concerned if you dont like that then go
back to your country!!
|
diamondsz
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 3173 Location: , Candyland-Canada
Thanks: 74
Thanked:104
Posted: 09-24-06 21:10pm
Now, I think what these parents did was
wrong, they have no right to force their
daughter to do anything unless it becomes
harmful to herself or others.
<cambion>
if a teenager chooses to keep her baby her
parents dont have to support her as they
didnt make the choice to carry that child,
instead they can place their child in
government facilities or have the daughter
on special assistance until she is off
working age. Down here they provided
daycare so teen mothers can finish school
and assist with finding them a
job/daycare.
In this sitiuation, I would have talked to
my daughter of all her option and allowed
her a second opinion with councillors, I
would put my daughter ahead of my needs
unless it became harmful to her!
|
Cambion
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 748
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 09-24-06 21:45pm
Quote:
if a teenager
chooses to keep her baby her parents dont
have to support her as they didnt make the
choice to carry that child, instead they
can place their child in government
facilities or have the daughter on special
assistance until she is off working age.
Down here they provided daycare so teen
mothers can finish school and assist with
finding them a job/daycare.
In this sitiuation, I would have talked to
my daughter of all her option and allowed
her a second opinion with councillors, I
would put my daughter ahead of my needs
unless it became harmful to
her!
oh sure, pay the girl to spawn and give
her free stuff when she does...Like that
will discourage her from going and getting
knocked up again. As far as i'm
concerned, if you can't pay to support
yourself, then you have no business having
kids, regardless of your age. Why should
everyone else have to pay for your
mistakes? It really should be required by
law that pregnant minors either abort or
give the child away, or at least make it
so parents can legally boot her a** out if
she wants to keep it, no matter how old
she is. If she thinks she can raise a
baby, then she should also be very capable
of finding a job and finding a place to
live too. Real, responsible parents can
juggle jobs, home life, and child care and
still make it...So if teen-mommy can't do
that, she better get rid of the kid asap.
|
nightangel73
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 2460 Location: ,
Thanks: 14
Thanked:7
Posted: 09-24-06 22:19pm
diamondsz
wrote:
wrong
our countries are multi-religious but our
law is the base of =our countries whether
it be canada or the .U.S, as far as im
concerned if you dont like that then go
back to your
country!!
you don't need to like the laws of your
country. Liking is one thing,
obeying is other. Abortion was illegal
before, now it is legal because people
didn't like the law right? So you don't
need to move because you don't like/agree
with the law. You try to change it if it
bothers you enough. That's why the law
changes. It's dynamic. What is legal
today can be illegal in the future and
vice-versa. Constitution is open to
change.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 09-25-06 02:07am
nightangel73
wrote:
eiri
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
eiri
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
stillherelosers
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
show it to
me
only born humans are classified are
entitled to personhood. Just
because you don't like the us
constitution, doesn't change
that.
so because the us constitution says it I
should agree with it? Well the bible
says that unborn humans are people and we
shall not kill them. But you will
not agree with the bible becuase you don't
like it right? So if the bible is
invalid for you, the us constitution is
just as invalid to
me.
then leave america. People who don't
believe the bible are not christian.
People who don't want to listen to the us
constitution should
leave.
hahaha so you say because I don't believe
in every single word of the us
constitution I should leave? Are you
smoking crack eiri? But let me tell
you it would be nice to live in europe.
I would love to live in germany or
australia.
my comparison is quite legal. Do you
find it atrocious? Honestly; if you
don't agree with the laws of the land,
then either find a legal way to change
them that doesn't infringe upon the rights
of other born people - which is impossible
- or, as people who don't believe in parts
of the bible - stop calling yourself
american. You can't truly be christian
or catholic unless you believe the whole
bible, in my opinion. That is a true
member of the religion. Otherwise
you're just lying to yourself and
believing the parts you want ot believe,
and dumping out the rest because it
doesn't suit you. So, you better
remember to worship correctly on the holy
day; and as a woman, you must cover your
hair as it seduces men. With a shawl.
Also, remember not to stand or move much
during your period; in fact, sitting
outside the house so you don't soil any of
the men's things is better yet.
Any blemish found upon your skin, means
you might have leprosy. Again, seven
more days of cleansing. You must obey
your man's every single command.
Yes, the sermon on th mount "changed" a
bunch of this... But much of it is
still there. So pork is okay now.
But i'm pretty sure women are still slaves
to their
husbands.
eiri do you believe in all the president
of the united states george w. Bush says
and do? Then if you don't you should
leave america as well. Hahahaha
look eiri you silly girl I am not
infringing with the laws of the land. I
am only saying in this public forum with
the freedom of speech granted by the
constituion you that I believe that
fetuses are people. I have no intention
to change the law, do you understand that?
I don't care what the law says. The
law doesn't apply to me because I have no
plans of having any abortions to begin
with. You do need to worry about the law
to not change because you would have
abortions. I could care less
girl.
i actually think .Bush is an fool. I
voted for .Kerry. But, .Bush was elected
instead so I have to deal with him as
president. Thats how the law works her
ein america. Neat, huh? I do believe
that he is actually removing many people's
rights; and thank god we don't have to
deal with him much longer because if we
do, this country is going to go to hell
and it's going to stop standing for what
it stands for now. The laws are what
matter, not the ruler. You notice I
didn't say "if you disagree with god,
don't be christian" and I didn't say "if
you disagree with bush don't be american"?
When or if it happens that america loses
the freedoms it was built upon, if I can't
do anything to change it, I am leaving.
Why? Because I refuse to live in a
dictator's nation where people have no
rights.
The law always applies to everyone.
That's why it is a law. Whether you are
going to excersize your right to abort,
you still have it. You have the right to
abort, you have the right to give birth.
Freedom is what this nation is build upon.
If you don't like our laws then go; that
is what I said and I say it again. If you
don't like some of the laws, in america
you have the right to change them.
In the bible, you don't. Since I don't
think you follow every single one of
jesus' rules, I don't think you're a true
christian. And I don't even mean "sins".
I mean all the other rules and things set
forth in the bible that people don't do
anymore these days. Muslims are far more
devout than most christians. Hell, most
jewish people are far, far more devout
than christians. Christianity has been
molded by the papacy to be some peice of
crap, and the bible, a wonderful piece of
literature and historical
fiction-narration (like homer's illiad and
oddessey), has been torn to shreds.
Mostly by king james.
Also, I never said you were infringing
upons the laws of the land, ever. I said
that if you wanted to change the laws in a
way that did not infringe upon the rights
of others that you should do it... And I
also stated that it is impossible to get
rid of abortion without infringing upon
the rights of the women who want to abort.
|
nightangel73
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 2460 Location: ,
Thanks: 14
Thanked:7
Posted: 09-25-06 07:01am
eiri
wrote:
when or if it happens that america loses
the freedoms it was built upon, if I can't
do anything to change it, I am leaving.
Why? Because I refuse to live in a
dictator's nation where people have no
rights.
but you can not always move if you don't
like the laws. For instance look at cuba,
for sure thousands of people would love to
leave the country because of the dictator
but they can't leave. Look at the
mexicans and their exodus to america. If
it were legal to get out mexico thousands
more would be here but they can't leave
like that. So if america looses it's
freedom you might not be able to move even
if that's what you wished.
eiri
wrote:
in the bible, you don't. Since I don't
think you follow every single one of
jesus' rules, I don't think you're a true
christian. And I don't even mean "sins".
I mean all the other rules and things
set forth in the bible that people don't
do anymore these days. Muslims are far
more devout than most christians. Hell,
most jewish people are far, far more
devout than christians. Christianity has
been molded by the papacy to be some peice
of crap, and the bible, a wonderful piece
of literature and historical
fiction-narration (like homer's illiad and
oddessey), has been torn to shreds.
Mostly by king james.
regarding what the catholic church says I
believe in all the doctrine. I don't
excersize all of it but I agree it is
correct.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 09-25-06 11:07am
nightangel73
wrote:
eiri
wrote:
when or if it happens that america loses
the freedoms it was built upon, if I can't
do anything to change it, I am leaving.
Why? Because I refuse to live in a
dictator's nation where people have no
rights.
but you can not always move if you don't
like the laws. For instance look at
cuba, for sure thousands of people would
love to leave the country because of the
dictator but they can't leave. Look at
the mexicans and their exodus to america.
If it were legal to get out mexico
thousands more would be here but they
can't leave like that. So if america
looses it's freedom you might not be able
to move even if that's what you wished.
eiri
wrote:
in the bible, you don't. Since I don't
think you follow every single one of
jesus' rules, I don't think you're a true
christian. And I don't even mean
"sins". I mean all the other rules and
things set forth in the bible that people
don't do anymore these days. Muslims
are far more devout than most christians.
Hell, most jewish people are far, far
more devout than christians.
Christianity has been molded by the papacy
to be some peice of crap, and the bible, a
wonderful piece of literature and
historical fiction-narration (like homer's
illiad and oddessey), has been torn to
shreds. Mostly by king james.
regarding what the catholic church says I
believe in all the doctrine. I don't
excersize all of it but I agree it is
correct.
personally, I think cubans should be
trying hard to change their nation so they
have the laws they like; and many are.
But many others in cuba do like
the laws. And being forced to stay and
voluntarily staying are two totally
different things. No one will force you
to stay in america.
Still, it is the job of the citizen to try
to change the laws; and when this fails,
then leave, if you can. If you can't,
then maybe it is time to call to the world
for help. Not america; we tend to f'up
recuing other countries. As america
hasn't got to hell yet, I still have a
chance to keep it afloat; this boat has
not sunk and it isn't time to abandon it
yet.
And trust me, i'd leave america long, long
before it became illegal to leave. Hell,
i'd leave if it became a national law that
abortion and gay marriage and stem-cell
research were all 100% illegal. They
currently aren't but we're getting close
on a few of them. Australia or ireland
anyone?
And you have to excersize it, not just
believe it. Isn't christianity about
actions as much as internal beliefs?
Unles you're being totally subservient in
every way listed in the bible... Or at
least by jesus, I do believe you are
screwed.
