Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3752 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
Thanks: 75
Thanked:65
Are Women Who Want to Abort Given Enough Information? Posted: 12-11-06 10:10am
I'd be interested in people's opinions on
the matter of how much information should
be given to a woman who is planning a
termination.
When I have read accounts from women who
regret their abortions, something that is
often said is that they feel they were not
given the full information about exactly
what the procedure involved and also what
their baby looked like. For example,
many women are not allowed to look at the
ultrasound image of their baby - or if
they ask, it is strongly advised that they
do not look. One lady I have just read
about says that she had no idea what was
involved in a .D&.E abortion and is
traumatised now because she has since
researched it and the knowledge haunts
her.
Should women who are going for an abortion
be shielded from the reality of the
procedure? Should they not be told what
will happen to the embryo/foetus? Should
they not be allowed to see the ultrasound
picture of their baby? I don't think
they should be forced to see an image but
in my opinion it should be compulsory for
the patient to be told exactly what the
procedure involves. You don't have to
use fancy or emotional language to achieve
this.
How can it be acceptable to gloss over the
facts and patronise a woman by not giving
her the full information about her medical
procedure? Are the medical staff worried
that the woman may change her mind if they
tell her the truth?
|
diamondsz
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 3173 Location: , Candyland-Canada
Thanks: 74
Thanked:104
Posted: 12-11-06 11:00am
They are given the info, yet some choose
to ignore it or as I would like to say
selective hearing. Down here they
give you a pamphlet with all the
information as to what is done and the
risk, before you can get an abortion you
have to sign it as to the point if you
dont understand you have to have someone
translate and sign with you legally
stating that u understand!
When you go they give you an u/s to find
the location of the embryo but they will
show you if you ask and you can back out
at any time. They also make you talk
with a counsellor that provides unbiased
support in which ever way you choose to
go.
I know everywhere is not the same but in
quebec/ontario that is how they work, by
law they have to provide all the
information or risk being sued, drs are
payed by the government and not by
patients!
On another note they dont do abortions
over 13 weeks here at all unless its to
save the mothers health, anything or 13
weeks you have to go to the states!
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3962 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 126
Thanked:12
Posted: 12-11-06 15:37pm
Fully informed consent is what I believe
in.
I think women need to have absolutely all
resources possible available to her, and
she may choose to receive them or not.
|
msrosie
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 360 Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks: 4
Thanked:1
Posted: 12-11-06 19:50pm
diamondsz
wrote:
when you go they give you an u/s to find
the location of the embryo but they will
show you if you ask and you can back out
at any time.
i am in ontario and never had an u/s
before my abortion. I do not think they
are necessary in the first trimester
unless there's some doubt about
gestational age and do not think the
public health system should be paying for
every women who aborts to have one.
I do feel if the woman has an u/s and
wants to see it, she should be allowed
to.
Quote:
on another note
they dont do abortions over 13 weeks here
at all unless its to save the mothers
health, anything or 13 weeks you have to
go to the
states!
that's 20 weeks, not 13.
|
jenn_smithson
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 808 Location: Texas
Re: Are Women Who Want to Abort Given Enough Information? Posted: 12-11-06 21:06pm
purestgreen
wrote:
i'd be interested in
people's opinions on the matter of how
much information should be given to a
woman who is planning a termination.
When I have read accounts from women who
regret their abortions, something that is
often said is that they feel they were not
given the full information about exactly
what the procedure involved and also what
their baby looked like. For example,
many women are not allowed to look at the
ultrasound image of their baby - or if
they ask, it is strongly advised that they
do not look. One lady I have just read
about says that she had no idea what was
involved in a .D&.E abortion and is
traumatised now because she has since
researched it and the knowledge haunts
her.
Should women who are going for an abortion
be shielded from the reality of the
procedure? Should they not be told what
will happen to the embryo/foetus?
Should they not be allowed to see the
ultrasound picture of their baby? I
don't think they should be forced to see
an image but in my opinion it should
be compulsory for the patient to be told
exactly what the procedure involves.
You don't have to use fancy or emotional
language to achieve
this.
unfortunately with this
issue, emotional language is often
preferred by the states in order to coerce
women out of their decision to obtain an
abortion. I have a problem with
so-called "informed consent" laws not
because I am against women knowing what is
going on - the opposite is actually the
truth - but am against the way that the
states have chosen to give said
information and the emotional manipulation
that they are trying to do. In the state
of texas and in many other states that
have "informed consent," women are
frequently talked down to, patronized,
over-emotional language is preferred, the
information is not scientifically
accurate, and artist renditions of fetal
development - as opposed to actual
photographs or computer models - are often
inappropriate.
So-called "informed consent" in texas,
actually states under risks of an
abortion:
".Death, sterility, infection, and breast
cancer." there is no other factual
information given about the actual
statistical relevance of these "risks" of
an abortion. Instead, that portion of
the pamphlet is designed to scare women
away from choosing an abortion by lying to
them and convincing them that they are
going to die or get breast cancer if they
go through with it.
Secondly, throughout the entire pamphlet
the term "baby" is used instead of the
term "fetus." this just goes to show you
that the actual medical terminology used
is lacking, the over-emotional chosen
instead of the appropriate.
Thirdly, the "fetal development" images
used are mostly artist renditions. This
means that they all necessarily have more
human characteristics than an 8 week fetus
actually has. In fact, the picture of
the 8 week fetus inside the pamphlet shows
what I would consider a live baby, sucking
its thumb, with actual eyes, eyelids,
big-heart-melting eyelashes, a cute button
nose. It does not show you the almost
alien-looking figure with big black
orbital sockets in a large bulbous head
and the remainder of a vestigial tail
which is actually what an 8 week
fetus resembles.
If anything, it is .T.H.I.S treatment
that is patronising to women seeking an
abortion.
But, I suppose lying to women is okay as
long as they keep the pregnancy, right?
Quote:
how can it be
acceptable to gloss over the facts and
patronise a woman by not giving her the
full information about her medical
procedure? Are the medical staff
worried that the woman may change her mind
if they tell her the
truth?
it's not and I would
doubt that this happened at all or happens
widely. The fact is that women are given
the facts but depending on their state,
the method of delivery of these facts may
cause them to not pay attention or they
may choose not to know the specifics.
And, despite all the lying that does go
on with so-called "informed consent,"
women still choose to obtain an abortion.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3962 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 126
Thanked:12
Re: Are Women Who Want to Abort Given Enough Information? Posted: 12-11-06 21:28pm
jenn_smithson
wrote:
purestgreen
wrote:
i'd be interested in
people's opinions on the matter of how
much information should be given to a
woman who is planning a termination.
When I have read accounts from women who
regret their abortions, something that is
often said is that they feel they were not
given the full information about exactly
what the procedure involved and also what
their baby looked like. For example,
many women are not allowed to look at the
ultrasound image of their baby - or if
they ask, it is strongly advised that they
do not look. One lady I have just read
about says that she had no idea what was
involved in a .D&.E abortion and is
traumatised now because she has since
researched it and the knowledge haunts
her.
Should women who are going for an abortion
be shielded from the reality of the
procedure? Should they not be told
what will happen to the embryo/foetus?
Should they not be allowed to see the
ultrasound picture of their baby? I
don't think they should be forced to see
an image but in my opinion it should
be compulsory for the patient to be told
exactly what the procedure involves.
You don't have to use fancy or emotional
language to achieve
this.
unfortunately with this
issue, emotional language is often
preferred by the states in order to coerce
women out of their decision to obtain an
abortion. I have a problem with
so-called "informed consent" laws not
because I am against women knowing what is
going on - the opposite is actually the
truth - but am against the way that the
states have chosen to give said
information and the emotional manipulation
that they are trying to do. In the
state of texas and in many other states
that have "informed consent," women are
frequently talked down to, patronized,
over-emotional language is preferred, the
information is not scientifically
accurate, and artist renditions of fetal
development - as opposed to actual
photographs or computer models - are often
inappropriate.
So-called "informed consent" in texas,
actually states under risks of an
abortion:
".Death, sterility, infection, and breast
cancer." there is no other factual
information given about the actual
statistical relevance of these "risks" of
an abortion. Instead, that portion of
the pamphlet is designed to scare women
away from choosing an abortion by lying to
them and convincing them that they are
going to die or get breast cancer if they
go through with it.
Secondly, throughout the entire pamphlet
the term "baby" is used instead of the
term "fetus." this just goes to show you
that the actual medical terminology used
is lacking, the over-emotional chosen
instead of the appropriate.
Thirdly, the "fetal development" images
used are mostly artist renditions. This
means that they all necessarily have more
human characteristics than an 8 week fetus
actually has. In fact, the picture of
the 8 week fetus inside the pamphlet shows
what I would consider a live baby, sucking
its thumb, with actual eyes, eyelids,
big-heart-melting eyelashes, a cute button
nose. It does not show you the almost
alien-looking figure with big black
orbital sockets in a large bulbous head
and the remainder of a vestigial tail
which is actually what an 8 week
fetus resembles.
If anything, it is .T.H.I.S treatment
that is patronising to women seeking an
abortion.
But, I suppose lying to women is okay as
long as they keep the pregnancy, right?
Quote:
how can it be
acceptable to gloss over the facts and
patronise a woman by not giving her the
full information about her medical
procedure? Are the medical staff
worried that the woman may change her mind
if they tell her the
truth?
it's not and I would
doubt that this happened at all or happens
widely. The fact is that women are
given the facts but depending on their
state, the method of delivery of these
facts may cause them to not pay attention
or they may choose not to know the
specifics.
And, despite all the lying that does go
on with so-called "informed consent,"
women still choose to obtain an
abortion.
whoa, I had no idea. That is absolutely
ridiculous, and another reason why texas
should be annexed from the .U.S. Is that
mandated by the state in some way? I
mean, it seems like it wouldn't be in the
abortion clinic's best interests, for
one.
Ohio is completely different. It was
more about the surgery and risks involving
that than any kind of emotive speak. I
think there was a blurb about how a study
may have linked abortion to breast cancer,
but it was inconclusive. There was
information about death, but it pertained
more to death due to anesthesia than the
abortion itself. A sonogram was not
offered (at six weeks). A very basic
video about the procedure, in which the
term "fetus" was used, was shown, but only
so that the woman was fully aware of what
the surgery entailed.
|
jenn_smithson
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 808 Location: Texas
Re: Are Women Who Want to Abort Given Enough Information? Posted: 12-11-06 23:16pm
birch
wrote:
whoa, I had no idea. That
is absolutely ridiculous, and another
reason why texas should be annexed from
the .U.S. Is that mandated by the state
in some way?
the state of texas
mandates it as well as develops the
pamphlets that are required to be
distributed and the recorded message that
women must listen to 24 hours prior to
their appointment.
Quote:
I mean, it
seems like it wouldn't be in the abortion
clinic's best interests, for
one.
it doesn't harm the
providers at the moment because the
pamphlets cost the state (and most women
dismiss them anyway) and the recording
just cost the doctor a few minutes of
his/her time with the answering machine.
Quote:
ohio is
completely different. It was more about
the surgery and risks involving that than
any kind of emotive speak. I think
there was a blurb about how a study may
have linked abortion to breast cancer, but
it was inconclusive. There was
information about death, but it pertained
more to death due to anesthesia than the
abortion itself. A sonogram was not
offered (at six weeks). A very basic
video about the procedure, in which the
term "fetus" was used, was shown, but only
so that the woman was fully aware of what
the surgery
entailed.
this is perfectly fine
with me and no less than would be expected
for care. In fact, for colposcopy's we
have a similar method of educating the
client (sans the information about fetal
development since there is no fetus
involved). I would have no problem if
this was what was being given to women
seeking an abortion but it's not (at least
in texas). Instead, it's used as a
method of manipulation trying to persuade
women against their first decision.
I honestly don't mind if women change
their minds but I want it to be because
it's honestly what they want, not because
they are terrified of what they've been
told will happen if they do not.
|
Lolly_Poppy
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 7
Posted: 12-16-06 01:42am
Hello, I just happened to stumble across
this site and finding it quite
informative. My comment it to diamondsz -
im from alberta and I had no idea that
there was difference between abortion laws
between the provinces. Here in alberta
abortion is legal up until 20 or 24 weeks
(can't recall) or longer if there are
genetic problems or womans health issues.
I am a mother of 2 and have had 2
abortions 1 medical and 1 surgical, with
both my abortions I was overloaded with
information prior to both from the clinic
counsellors. Oh, abortion in alberta is
100% fully funded by the government.
