At Least Admit What Ur Doing. Posted: 01-11-07 11:35am
Even if it is not against your religion,
even if you are allowed to... Admit what
you are doing is homicide, when you take
your own child's life.
Believe that you will pay a very heavy
price for what you have done.
Yes, it would have inconvenieced you for
several months, but you did not even allow
your own child several months of life.
The exchange? Mere inconvenience
out-weighs the importance of a whole
life... Who are you an inconvenience to?
|
diamondsz
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Re: At Least Admit What Ur Doing. Posted: 01-11-07 12:17pm
amaria
wrote:
even if it is not against
your religion, even if you are allowed
to... Admit what you are doing is not a
nice act, when you take your own child's
life.
sorry its not homicide whether you want to
believe it or not it the not by law
amaria
wrote:
believe that you will pay a very heavy
price for what you have
done.
for what you never committed a crime in
the first place
amaria
wrote:
yes, it would have inconvenieced you for
several months, but you did not even allow
your own child several months of
life.
its not their right a
mother has a right to do as she please to
her own body, it her body not yours
amaria
wrote:
the exchange? Mere inconvenience
out-weighs the importance of a whole
life... Who are you an inconvenience
to?
i am an incovenince to everyone but I
wrong bring a child into this world to
never know happiness oh and before you say
well a good family can take that child
think again. I went through the system
and never had stability always moving from
place to place cause a family only wants
newborn so what if no one is there to take
that child throught it to misery. Your
naieve wake up and smell the coffee.
I am pro-choice everything in life is
decided by the choices I make no god will
tell me how to live no law will tell me
how tlive but if I break the law I will go
to jail. You or anybody else will tell
me how make the choice in my life my body
my mind my choice.
If I want to pick my nose thats my choice
not yours to make
have a good one and hopefully you wake up
to reality
|
Jules
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3840 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
Thanks: 91
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Re: At Least Admit What Ur Doing. Posted: 01-11-07 12:51pm
diamondsz
wrote:
i am an incovenince to everyone...
If I want to pick my nose thats my choice
not yours
these two comments just had me in
stitches! I'm sure you are .N.O.T an
inconvenience to anyone!
And pick that nose! Who doesn't..?
|
jenn_smithson
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 808 Location: Texas
Re: At Least Admit What Ur Doing. Posted: 01-11-07 13:57pm
amaria
wrote:
even if it is not against
your religion, even if you are allowed
to... Admit what you are doing is not a
nice act, when you take your own child's
life.
one would have to
believe that an 8 week fetus is a child in
order for the second half of your
statement to ring true.
As to your other assumptions, is abortion
a good thing? It is and it isn't. For
some women, myself included, it is/was a
very good thing. It was the right
decision at the time and it was a positive
experience, overall. For some women,
they may feel that it was not the right
decision for themselves. They may have
felt pressured by any number of sources
and they may not have liked the fact that
they did what they felt compelled to do.
I guess it's a good thing that this
decision is left to the individual woman
so that she can decide if an abortion is
good for her life, family, health, and
conscience.
Quote:
believe that you
will pay a very heavy price for what you
have done.
if I had had to pay for
it myself, it would have been near $500
(because I would have had full
anesthesia). A large sum all at one time
but not a heavy price overall. It would
simply mean not going out to eat that
month and not buying any books. As to
using "price" in any other context, I have
never regretted my decision and feel quite
positive about my decision.
Quote:
yes, it would
have inconvenieced you for several
months,
you have obviously never
been pregnant or given birth. .Pregnancy and
child birth are .M.O.R.E than just a mere
inconvience. Attempting to dismiss the
hell that it is, the risks that you are
taking, and the .Actual physical and
emotional costs that you bear during a
pregnancy and child birth, makes you seem
completely uncompassionate and
unempathetic. .Women go through
more than just an inconvenience to have
children. Because of this, only the
woman can decide if she wants to
experience that torture for herself.
Quote:
but you did not
even allow your own child several months
of life.
someone is killing
children?! Call the police immediately
if you know of this occurring. Killing
children is absolutely against the law.
Quote:
the exchange?
Mere inconvenience out-weighs the
importance of a whole
life...
first, the .Woman's life
is the most important in this equation.
She is born, she lives, she breathes,
feels, thinks, and acts. Her wishes,
goals, health, and life take precedence
because she can have those things. A
fetus does not. Also, you cannot give
the fetus that uses the woman's body,
possibly against her wishes, precedence
over the actual woman carrying it. To do
so would be to make women mere incubators.
The importance should be on the woman
and since it is her body and hers alone,
only she can decide what to do with it.
Quote:
who are you an
inconvenience
to?
I am no longer a direct
physical threat to my mother, her health,
organs, and life. A fetus necessarily
threatens the .Woman. Sometimes this
threat is manageable, others it isn't.
It isn't anyone elses right to determine
who must take that risk unless
it is your own body. Only the woman can
decide to assume the risks of a pregnancy
and she can end that pregnancy if she
feels sufficiently threatened by it.
|
diamondsz
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Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 3333 Location: , Candyland-Canada
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Re: At Least Admit What Ur Doing. Posted: 01-11-07 14:07pm
purestgreen
wrote:
diamondsz
wrote:
i am an incovenince to everyone...
If I want to pick my nose thats my choice
not yours
these two comments just had me in
stitches! I'm sure you are .N.O.T an
inconvenience to anyone!
And pick that nose! Who doesn't..?
stitches never heard that before :d
yeah it gets picked daily lmao no just
adding some of my sarcastic humour ironic
eh?
Re: At Least Admit What Ur Doing. Posted: 01-11-07 15:36pm
diamondsz
wrote:
purestgreen
wrote:
diamondsz
wrote:
i am an incovenince to everyone...
If I want to pick my nose thats my choice
not yours
these two comments just had me in
stitches! I'm sure you are .N.O.T an
inconvenience to anyone!
And pick that nose! Who doesn't..?
stitches never heard that before :d
yeah it gets picked daily lmao no just
adding some of my sarcastic humour ironic
eh?
yeah, "it had me in stitches" is an
english term to mean "it made me really
laugh" or "i laughed so much my sides
split" etc. =]
|
Amaria
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 47
Posted: 01-11-07 21:18pm
I would say that the one who never had a
chance at making their way in life is more
important.
Anyone who talks themselves into believing
otherwise has only selfish intentions.
As for no one wanting a child, except for
newborns... Ummmm, I think that's what
they call babies right after they are
born.
As I said before it is not about the law,
it is about logic and morals. Logically,
if you can take away your own progeny's
life at the begining, you can do the same
at any stage in their life. I believe
the government should stand up for the
masses killed every day, but sadly... It
is not so.
Those who try to decieve (others &
themselves) argue over what we call the
slaughtered babes. In reality it does
not matter, they are still your children,
still human, still deserving of life.
Women will continue to kill their own
children. I just wish they would own up
to what they actually did! No more
excuses - you are a killer... However you
justify it... Oh, i'm sorry, you leased a
"hit man" to do your dirty work.
What is wrong with the world today? A
selfish, confused, killer mentality - that
is what is wrong with the world. Too bad
we can't put some w.O.R.T.H. On human
life.
N.I.N.E. M.O.N.T.H.S. Could have given
someone their life!
|
Tylanas
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Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
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Re: At Least Admit What Ur Doing. Posted: 01-11-07 22:22pm
amaria
wrote:
even if it is not against
your religion, even if you are allowed
to... Admit what you are doing is not a
nice act, when you take your own child's
life.
pro-choice does not think that the fetus
is a full human person, nor does it have
or deserve full human person rights.
Thus, you cannot murder it
any mor than you can murder a
cat or pig.
Quote:
believe that you
will pay a very heavy price for what you
have done.
who will be dishing out this punishment?
Quote:
yes, it would
have inconvenieced you for several months,
but you did not even allow your own child
several months of
life.
it is about the right to one's own body,
for the already born, already breathing
mother. Abortion is sometimes necessary
to save the mothers life. Surely you
cannot dare call her a murderer?
A fetus does not have the same rights as
her because it is lesser, in every single
way.
Quote:
the exchange?
Mere inconvenience out-weighs the
importance of a whole life... Who are
you an inconvenience
to?
bodily rights. Take away the right to
abortion, and you say all kinds of things
aout a woman's right to her body. You say
that she doesn't have a right to it,
period. And that's wrong.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-11-07 23:01pm
amaria
wrote:
i would say that the one who
never had a chance at making their way in
life is more
important.
why? Why is a potential life more
important than the life that is lready
here and needs taking care of? Why do
"what ifs" tke precedence over real
life?
Quote:
anyone who talks
themselves into believing otherwise has
only selfish
intentions.
yes i'm so very selfish to want control
over my own body.
Quote:
as for no one
wanting a child, except for newborns...
Ummmm, I think that's what they call
babies right after they are
born.
yes, the are called babies right after
they're born. Not before.
Quote:
as I said before
it is not about the law, it is about logic
and morals. Logically, if you can take
away your own progeny's life at the
begining, you can do the same at any stage
in their life.
if you look at the biology of the
situation, then you will see that your
argument is complete bunk. The only
person who has the right to care for or
kill a fetus is the pregnant woman,
because the fetus is entirely dependant on
her body. After birth however, anyone
anywehre with formul or breast-milk (aka a
wet-nurse) could care for the child.
Thus, the mother is no longer solely
responsible for its existance, and she can
no longer determine if it lives or dies.
It is now seperate from her.
[quote] I believe the government should
stand up for the masses killed every day,
but sadly... It is not so.[quote]
it doesn't because it's not illegal. It's
not a crime. We have a hard enough time
feedin those of us already on this
earth... We cannot be stressing about the
potential mouths.
Quote:
those who try to
decieve (others & themselves) argue
over what we call the slaughtered babes.
who is "we"? Pro-life? Then you are
lying to yourselves. They are not babies,
they are fetuses. That is the truth.
[quote] in reality it does not matter,
they are still your children, still human,
still deserving of life.
Women will continue to kill their own
children. [quote]
and women who kill their children will go
to jail. Women who abort will be released
from the terrible situation they were in,
as they have taken responsibility for the
pregnacy and dealt with it in a perfectly
legal, and rather safe fashion that spares
them nine months of torment, plus the
additional pain of adoption or raising the
undwanted child. Or perhaps they are also
removing the fetus from pain, as it may be
deformed or mentally incapacitated. You
seem to have forgotten about those cases
though. The issue of abortion is about
every single woman who choses to go
through with it, not just the ones doing
ti because they didn't have safe sex. It
is about the twelve year old rape victim
too, and the woman with the ectopic
pregnancy.
Quote:
I just wish they
would own up to what they actually did!
they aborted... That's it. They should
never feel guilt, and I hope they never
do. I hope small-minded people like
yourself
Quote:
no more excuses
- you are a killer... However you
justify it... Oh, i'm sorry, you leased
a "hit man" to do your dirty work.
you're pretty stupid. You know how much
life you kill every day? We are all
killers, by simply digesting the food we
need to survive. And I don't even mean
the meat you may or may not eat. You have
bacteria in your stomach that are symbiots
with your body, they help break down your
food. And then your stomach acid kills
them and uses them as protein. What about
that icky spider you squashed?
Quote:
what is wrong
with the world today?
people like you.
Quote:
a selfish,
confused, killer mentality
sorry for digesting my food.
Quote:
- that is what is
wrong with the world. Too bad we can't
put some w.O.R.T.H. On human
life.
pro-choice does. We put it on the woman.
Pro-life does too. They put it on the
fetus.
Quote:
n.I.N.E.
M.O.N.T.H.S. Could have given someone
their life!
and created hitler. Or stalin, or
hussein. Splendid.
|
diamondsz
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 3333 Location: , Candyland-Canada
Thanks: 98
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Posted: 01-11-07 23:04pm
amaria
wrote:
i would say that the one who
never had a chance at making their way in
life is more important.
Anyone who talks themselves into believing
otherwise has only selfish intentions.
As for no one wanting a child, except for
newborns... Ummmm, I think that's what
they call babies right after they are
born.
a coin has two sides
people have kids for selfish reason all
the time does that make them bad?
Thing is the governement willnever see
things your way cause a womans body is her
own and noone else, if a man rapes a woman
he goes to a jail if a fetus inhabits a
woman it should too lol no honestly
abortion is not selfish in some case "duh"
|
nightangel73
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 2763 Location: ,
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online
Posted: 01-11-07 23:14pm
eiri
wrote:
and created hitler. Or stalin, or
hussein.
Splendid.
or eiri! Splendid.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-11-07 23:17pm
nightangel73
wrote:
eiri
wrote:
and created hitler. Or stalin, or
hussein.
Splendid.
or eiri!
Splendid.
if you deem it proper to compare me to
hitler stalin and hussein, then you are
obviously demented. It seems pro-life is
always the one comparing pro-choice to
killers... Yet pro-choice just sits
patiently for the name calling to cease,
and returns to the debate at hand. Funny,
indeed.
|
Amaria
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 47
Posted: 01-12-07 10:44am
eiri
wrote:
amaria
wrote:
i would say that the one who
never had a chance at making their way in
life is more
important.
why? Why is a potential life more
important than the life that is lready
here and needs taking care of? Why do
"what ifs" tke precedence over real life?
it is alive, living, if you will. It is
growing and developing, is it not? It
is not a "what if" - if you can end it's
life!
eiri
wrote:
amaria
wrote:
anyone who talks themselves
into believing otherwise has only selfish
intentions.
yes i'm so very selfish to want control
over my own
body.
thank you for finally admitting it!
Btw, you will never have control over your
own body, there are bacteria abundant
within you (and outside of you waiting to
get in) - some of those bacteria are even
detrimental to your health. So, should
you have to die because you are dependant
upon another entity? (lol, I just read
further down in your post where you
mention the same thing)
eiri
wrote:
amaria
wrote:
as for no one wanting a
child, except for newborns... Ummmm, I
think that's what they call babies right
after they are
born.
yes, the are called babies right after
they're born. Not before.
ok, so we agree a newborn is someone who
has been newly born! You do not address
what my statement was about - adoption.
It was said that the problem with adoption
is that people only want newborns - that
is exactly what you get when you go
through with a pregnancy, a newborn.
That is why I believe the choice women
make should be whether to adopt out or to
keep the child... Killing it should not
be a choice, anymore than it should be a
choice for her to die.
eiri
wrote:
amaria
wrote:
as I said before it is not
about the law, it is about logic and
morals. Logically, if you can take
away your own progeny's life at the
begining, you can do the same at any stage
in their life.
if you look at the biology of the
situation, then you will see that your
argument is complete bunk. The only
person who has the right to care for or
kill a fetus is the pregnant woman,
because the fetus is entirely dependant on
her body. After birth however, anyone
anywehre with formul or breast-milk (aka a
wet-nurse) could care for the child.
Thus, the mother is no longer solely
responsible for its existance, and she can
no longer determine if it lives or dies.
It is now seperate from her.
i do not beilieve a woman has the right to
kill a fetus... Hence your argument is
complete bunk to me. It is actually
quite easy to care for a child within the
womb. Much easier than taking care of a
child after it is born. The only thing
the child within the womb is dependant
upon is her living and her not killing the
child. There are so many more factors
once it is born. It does not matter
who is responsible for keeping the child
alive, it is still worthy of life...
Well to me, anyway.
eiri
wrote:
amaria
wrote:
I believe the government
should stand up for the masses killed
every day, but sadly... It is not
so.
it doesn't because it's not illegal.
It's not a crime. We have a hard enough
time feedin those of us already on this
earth... We cannot be stressing about
the potential mouths.
if the world started putting more
importance on life, maybe all the starving
people would actually start to mean
something to everyone. Maybe, if we saw
that all life is as important as ours, we
would have a fairer distribution of food.
There is plenty on this earth to sustain
us.
eiri
wrote:
amaria
wrote:
those who try to decieve
(others & themselves) argue over what
we call the slaughtered babes.
who is "we"? Pro-life? Then you are
lying to yourselves. They are not
babies, they are fetuses. That is the
truth.
as I refuse to argue over what they are
called, and focus more on the fact that
they exist (until someone kills them), I
would be talking about you.
eiri
wrote:
amaria
wrote:
in reality it does not
matter, they are still your children,
still human, still deserving of life.
Women will continue to kill their own
children.
and women who kill their children will go
to jail. Women who abort will be
released from the terrible situation they
were in, as they have taken responsibility
for the pregnacy and dealt with it in a
perfectly legal, and rather safe fashion
that spares them nine months of torment,
plus the additional pain of adoption or
raising the undwanted child. Or perhaps
they are also removing the fetus from
pain, as it may be deformed or mentally
incapacitated. You seem to have
forgotten about those cases though. The
issue of abortion is about every single
woman who choses to go through with it,
not just the ones doing ti because they
didn't have safe sex. It is about the
twelve year old rape victim too, and the
woman with the ectopic pregnancy.
"taken responsibility for their pregnancy"
- .T.H.A.T. Is exactly what they have
not done. They take their child's life,
reason it by saying it never mattered, and
pretend it never existed.
As for the legality of it...
"pro-choicers" are akin to accountants
working their way around tax laws.
Saddly such loopholes exist.
Also, plenty of deformed or mentally
handicapped people get along quite happily
in life! I suppose you think them not
worthy of life either.
As I said elsewhere... I believe that
when both can live - let both live. As
it is impossible for the child within to
live without the mother alive, the only
reasonable action to take when the
mother's life is at stake, is to abort.
Do not talk to me about raped and
pregnant, as I know quite a bit about
that.
eiri
wrote:
amaria
wrote:
I just wish they would own
up to what they actually did!
they aborted... That's it. They
should never feel guilt, and I hope they
never do. I hope small-minded people
like yourself
i think if they are emotionally
healthy/stable people, there is no other
way to feel, but guilty.
eiri
wrote:
amaria
wrote:
no more excuses - you are a
killer... However you justify it...
Oh, i'm sorry, you leased a "hit man" to
do your dirty work.
you're pretty stupid. You know how much
life you kill every day? We are all
killers, by simply digesting the food we
need to survive. And I don't even mean
the meat you may or may not eat. You
have bacteria in your stomach that are
symbiots with your body, they help break
down your food. And then your stomach
acid kills them and uses them as protein.
What about that icky spider you
squashed?
sorry, I do not eat humans.
eiri
wrote:
amaria
wrote:
what is wrong with the world
today?
people like you.
amaria
wrote:
a selfish, confused,
killer mentality
sorry for digesting my food.
i did not know you were a cannibal.
eiri
wrote:
Quote:
- that is what is
wrong with the world. Too bad we
can't put some w.O.R.T.H. On human
life.
pro-choice does. We put it on the
woman. Pro-life does too. They put
it on the fetus.
i cannot speak for all pro-lifers... But
I put the worth on .A.L.L.
eiri
wrote:
Quote:
.N.I.N.E.
M.O.N.T.H.S. Could have given someone
their life!
and created hitler. Or stalin, or
hussein.
Splendid.
so, I suppose we should have genetic
testing done on everyone within the womb,
and if they don't meet your ideals for an
important person - kill em? Sounds like
the mentality of the people you just
named.
|
jenn_smithson
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 808 Location: Texas
Posted: 01-12-07 13:26pm
amaria
wrote:
it is alive, living, if you
will. It is growing and developing, is
it not? It is not a "what if" - if you
can end it's
life!
alive, yes. A life as
we understand it, no. Those of us not
suffering from delusion or demensia
understand that a life is .M.O.R.E than
breathing (which a fetus does not do until
birth), eating (again, not until birth),
and excreting. A life requires sentience
- consciousness, the ability to act on
one's own, thought, and response to
stimuli.
The .Woman has a life already. The fetus
does not, it merely has the potential to
have a life if it reaches birth (which the
majority of embryo's/fetus' do not).
Therefore the full life in the way that we
understand and value life takes precedence
over the potential. The meal that you
are eating right now, for example, takes
precedence - requires the most attention -
than the potential meal you have planned
for tonight even if you have already put
the ingredients in the crock pot/oven/etc.
Further, because we recognize and respect
that the woman is a full and independent
life, she is afforded rights. One of
those rights is to determine what happens
in and to her body whether she is pregnant
or not. Because the .Woman and fetus
share a symbiotic relationship and because
the fetus is necessarily dependent upon
the woman's body and resources, a problem
with one necessarily affects the other.
Because of this relationship, both the
dependency and the parasitic behavior of
the fetus and placenta, a pregnant .Woman
is at risk for anything going wrong. It
is unethical, not to mention illegal, to
require women to assume this risk against
their will. The .Woman is the only
expert of her life and thus, she is the
only one who can decide whether she will
assume the risks of continuing a
pregnancy. To require that she do so
against her will would be to take away her
rights to her own body when she becomes
pregnant. Thus, treating women (pregnant
vs not pregnant) differently in the law
from one another and treating men and
women differently in the law from one
another. This is unconstitutional.
eiri
wrote:
amaria
wrote:
anyone who talks themselves
into believing otherwise has only selfish
intentions.
yes i'm so very selfish to want control
over my own
body.
Quote:
thank you for
finally admitting it! Btw, you will
never have control over your own body,
there are bacteria abundant within you
(and outside of you waiting to get in) -
some of those bacteria are even
detrimental to your
health.
first, we .D.O have
control over our own bodies. If
something is threatening us - bacteria,
cancer, or a pregnancy - we have the right
to have it removed and reassert control
over our bodies and health. Because the
bacteria, cancer, and fetus are dependent
upon our bodies, we can refuse further use
of our bodies by having that which harms
us removed.
Quote:
so, should
you have to die because you are dependant
upon another entity?
should women have to die
because a fetus is dependent upon their
bodies? .N.O. Women who exercise their
right over their own body to end a
pregnancy can do so, even pre-emptively,
for their health and life. As a direct
result of abortion becoming legalized,
maternal deaths in the .U.S have
diminished drastically. The number one
killer of a pregnant woman used to be the
pregnancy before abortion was legalized.
After abortion was legalized, the number
one killer of pregnant women are their
partners.
Quote:
it was said that
the problem with adoption is that people
only want newborns - that is exactly what
you get when you go through with a
pregnancy, a newborn. That is why I
believe the choice women make should be
whether to adopt out or to keep the
child...
adoption is a parenting
option, not a pregnancy option. It does
nothing to help .Women assert control over
their own lives, bodies, and health during
pregnancy. Further, it does nothing for
the .Women who can't or won't remain
pregnant. Adoption is only an option if
the .Woman is willing to assume the
medical risks of continuing the
pregnancy.
Quote:
killing it
should not be a choice, anymore than it
should be a choice for her to
die.
by not giving her the
choice, you would be subjecting her to
death or to an increase risk of death.
This was very true and very much the
reality before abortion was legalized
again.
Quote:
i do not beilieve
a woman has the right to kill a
fetus...
that is your opinion,
not a fact.
Quote:
hence your
argument is complete bunk to
me.
then, by all means, keep
all of your pregnancies. You won't
hear us telling you what to do. We just
ask that you not try to decide what we do
with our bodies, pregnancies and lives.
Since only your own pregnancies concern
you, you should leave everyone elses
alone, out of common courtesy if nothing
else.
Quote:
it is
actually quite easy to care for a child
within the
womb.
not if you are unable or
unwilling to do so. That is the point.
You cannot require a .Woman to remain
pregnant against her will or capabilities.
No one has ever been able to force
women to remain pregnant. When abortion
is illegal, .Women still have abortions
they just become more dangerous because
they are unregulated. Regulation with
legalization saves lives - .Women's .Real,
.Actual lives.
Quote:
the only thing
the child within the womb is dependant
upon is her living and her not killing the
child.
exactly! And .Women
can
end the pregnancy thus ending the
dependency!
Quote:
it does not
matter who is responsible for keeping the
child alive, it is still worthy of life...
Well to me,
anyway.
your opinion is only
applicable to yourself.
Quote:
if the world
started putting more importance on life,
maybe all the starving people would
actually start to mean something to
everyone.
woah now. If all of
the people trying to stick their noses
into my uterus, my life, my medical
decisions were to actually.D.O
something to help the people who do
.Actually exist, then starving people
would get fed. You cannot help everyone
all of the time. Therefore, you put
priorities on the people you will care
for. if
the priority was actually those people who
are .Actually already living their lives,
their would be less hunger, disease,
poverty, and illiteracy. but no,
people are far more interested in the
contents of my uterus when what I decide
has no impact on their own life!
Start respecting .Women and put importance
on their lives as more than just
incubators, and things would really start
changing around here.
Quote:
maybe, if we saw
that all life is as important as ours, we
would have a fairer distribution of food.
There is plenty on this earth to
sustain us.
actually, no, there
isn't. It takes approximately 1/7
hectacre of land to produce a purely
vegetarian diet for each .Actual human
person on earth. With 6,000,000,000+
people currently on the planet, we do not have
enough usable land to produce such a
diet. Even supplementing the diet
with meat (which actually takes up more
land because you must grow grain, grass,
or some other vegetation or the meat to
eat), there is simply not enough to go
around. It only seems that way in
industrialized nations, especially the
united states, because we consume much
more than we grow and give.
And, without respect for individual
people's bodies and their demands for
those bodies, the government could require
organ donation, blood donation, mandatory
testing, etc. If you don't own your own
body, all the time, then the government
can use if for any purpose they deem fit.
Quote:
as I refuse to
argue over what they are called, and focus
more on the fact that they exist (until
someone kills them), I would be talking
about you.
they do not "exist" in
the way that we typically identify with.
Human persons are independent, living,
breathing, producing agents who can
usually make decisions and actions.
Human persons exist. We can see, touch,
hear and sometimes smell them. Fetus' do
not exist in the same way. They are
dependent, only alive because the woman is
alive, and you cannot touch, hear, or
smell them (in fact, I wouldn't even
consider "see" because you must have the
technology to see them when people you can
see with your own eyes). Existence on a
life support system is not a full,
independent existence. We recognize
this.
Quote:
"taken
responsibility for their pregnancy" -
.T.H.A.T. Is exactly what they have not
done.
tomato, tomahto. Your
opinion of responsibility does not matter.
It is only the individual woman's
opinion of responsibility that matters to
her.
Quote:
also, plenty of
deformed or mentally handicapped people
get along quite happily in life! I
suppose you think them not worthy of life
either.
she was not speaking of
those people. She was speaking of the
massive deformities that are inconducive
to life off of the support system - ie,
the woman's body. About 2,000 women each
year will have to abort for severe
deformities. If they did not, at birth
(assuming they, themselves, survived that
far) the fetus would either be born dead
or would die shortly after. For many of
these, immense pain would be present from
birth until they died. This is not a
life nor is it merciful to give birth just
to watch the neonate die. Another 1,500
women, on average, will also abort due to
retardation, down's syndrome, or autism.
In these cases, the .Women and their
families believe that this will be the
more merciful option as well. Many of
them cannot or will not seek adoption (and
there's a great possibility that no one
would want that child) and they also know
that they, themselves, cannot emotionally,
physically, or financially handle a child
like that.
These are tragic circumstances because
often, these women greatly wanted their
pregnancies and then something went
terribly wrong and they had to end them.
Quote:
as I said
elsewhere... I believe that when both
can live - let both
live.
it is not your body,
therefore you cannot tell another woman
what to do with her own body. If she
cannot or will not let the pregnancy
continue, that is her decision to make -
not anyone elses. Until that body
magically becomes your own, what you
believe doesn't matter.
Quote:
do not talk to
me about raped and pregnant, as I know
quite a bit about
that.
it is a reality for tens
of thousands of women each year. And
because it is their own body that has been
violated, only they can decide which
medical treatment to pursue.
Quote:
i think if they
are emotionally healthy/stable people,
there is no other way to feel, but
guilty.
the majority of women
who obtain an abortion do not have any
negative, long term emotional effects
stemming from either the unintended
pregnancy or the abortion. The majority
of women who obtain an abortion are
emotionally healthy/stable people. Your
opinion is, thankfully, not the fact here
either.
Quote:
sorry, I do not
eat humans.
neither do women who
abort.
Quote:
i cannot speak
for all pro-lifers... But I put the
worth on .A.L.L.
you cannot put worth on
both the .Woman and the fetus because of
the physical dependency of the fetus.
They cannot share the same the body and
have equivalent rights. Someone must own
that body, make the final decisions
regarding that body and since only one of
them can do that, it is left to the
.Actual person - the woman.
Quote:
so, I suppose we
should have genetic testing done on
everyone within the womb, and if they
don't meet your ideals for an important
person - kill
em?
."w.E" shouldn't
do anything. Women can do whatever they
want to their pregnancies because it doesn't
affect me or you or anyone
else. .If a woman wants to
get genetic testing or an amniocentesis to
determine whether the fetus is one that
she can and is willing to carry, that is
her perogative because it's her body, her
pregnancy, and her life. My
opinions/beliefs and yours have nothing to
do with her or her pregnancy. It is up
to the .Woman, not the government, not
society, just the woman to decide the
scope and direction her life will take
including whether she remains pregnant or
not. Since that decision only affects
her body and life, she is the only
one who can make it.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Posted: 01-12-07 14:26pm
eiri
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
eiri
wrote:
and created hitler. Or stalin, or
hussein.
Splendid.
or eiri!
Splendid.
if you deem it proper to compare me to
hitler stalin and hussein, then you are
obviously demented. It seems pro-life is
always the one comparing pro-choice to
killers... Yet pro-choice just sits
patiently for the name calling to cease,
and returns to the debate at hand.
Funny,
indeed.
acutally, I thought that was funny. nightangel made a
'joke'!
And in this thread, is abortion justified
even if the foetus is sentient? The name
calling was started by the pc'ers.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 01-12-07 14:33pm
birch
wrote:
eiri
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
eiri
wrote:
and created hitler. Or stalin, or
hussein.
Splendid.
or eiri!
Splendid.
if you deem it proper to compare me to
hitler stalin and hussein, then you are
obviously demented. It seems pro-life
is always the one comparing pro-choice to
killers... Yet pro-choice just sits
patiently for the name calling to cease,
and returns to the debate at hand.
Funny,
indeed.
acutally, I thought that was funny.
nightangel made a
'joke'!
And in this thread, is abortion justified
even if the foetus is sentient? The
name calling was started by the pc'ers.
was it really? Lol. Who dun it? And I
can never tell when to take her seriously
or when she's joking, so I go the safe
road and always give her the respect of
taking her seriously. I wish she'd do the
same.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Posted: 01-12-07 14:51pm
eiri
wrote:
birch
wrote:
eiri
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
eiri
wrote:
and created hitler. Or stalin, or
hussein.
Splendid.
or eiri!
Splendid.
if you deem it proper to compare me to
hitler stalin and hussein, then you are
obviously demented. It seems pro-life
is always the one comparing pro-choice to
killers... Yet pro-choice just sits
patiently for the name calling to cease,
and returns to the debate at hand.
Funny,
indeed.
acutally, I thought that was funny.
nightangel made a
'joke'!
And in this thread, is abortion justified
even if the foetus is sentient? The
name calling was started by the pc'ers.
was it really? Lol. Who dun it? And
I can never tell when to take her
seriously or when she's joking, so I go
the safe road and always give her the
respect of taking her seriously. I wish
she'd do the
same.
i know, I know...She's a little trollish,
and I think she really believes most of
what she types, but the other stuff is a
(lame) attempt to get a laugh.
|
Amaria
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 47
Posted: 01-14-07 01:15am
jenn_smithson
wrote:
you have obviously never
been pregnant or given birth. .Pregnancy
and child birth are .
nightangel made a
'joke'!
