Jules
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Babies Born Alive And Left to Die After Botched Abortions.
Posted: 02-22-07 06:55am
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Taken from: http://www.timesonline.co.uk
A
GOVERNMENT agency is launching an inquiry
into doctors’ reports that up to 50
babies a year are born alive after botched
National Health Service abortions.
The investigation, by the Confidential
Enquiry into Maternal and Child Health
(CEMACH), comes amid growing unease among
clinicians over a legal ambiguity that
could see them being charged with
infanticide.
The Royal College of Obstetricians and
Gynaecologists, which regulates methods of
abortion, has also mounted its own
investigation.
Its guidelines say that babies aborted
after more than 21 weeks and six days of
gestation should have their hearts stopped
by an injection of potassium chloride
before being delivered. In practice, few
doctors are willing or able to perform the
delicate procedure.
For the abortion of younger foetuses,
labour is induced by drugs in the
expectation that the infant will not
survive the birth process. Guidelines say
that doctors should ensure that the drugs
they use prevent such babies being alive
at birth.
In practice, according to Stuart Campbell,
former professor of obstetrics and
gynaecology at St George’s hospital,
London, a number do survive.
“They can be born breathing and crying
at 19 weeks’ gestation,” he said. “I
am not anti-abortion, but as far as I am
concerned this is sub-standard
medicine.”
“If a baby is born alive following a
failed abortion and then dies (because of
lack of care), you could potentially be
charged with homicide,” said Shantala
Vadeyar, a consultant obstetrician at
South Manchester University Hospitals NHS
Trust, who led the study.
I think that if the doctors can be found
negligent in that they did not administer
the injection to stop the foetal heart,
and the baby is born alive, then they
should be prosecuted. I'm not sure that
'infanticide' is appropriate though
because if a 19 week old baby is born
alive, is it really the kindest thing to
do to try to keep it alive? It would most
likely be doomed to a life of medical
problems (not to mention growing up
knowing its mother tried to have it
killed).
Anyone got any opinions?
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Moo
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Posted: 02-22-07 09:54am
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Excellent post! (I'm biased, my area and
all lol  )
Personally I think late term abortions
need to be carried out with as much care
as any other medical procedure - the
injection is supposed to be administered
before delivery and so it should be!
If a baby is born alive due to a 'botched'
abortion then it needs to be given the
same care as any other premature -
although homicide wouldn't exactly be
appropriate there would be huge scope for
negligence and, herfore manslaughter
(gross negligence masnslaughter) if a
professional ignored their duty of care.
I appreciate that if the woman wants the
abortion then that is her right but, if
born alive, that is a person in it's own
right. If it fails to respind to it (as
one would imagine it inevitably will) then
so be it but medical attention should
still be administered if it is born alive
- in circumstances other than abortion
this would be the case.
If doctors are not willing to perform this
then don't do late term abortions!
My opinion only, of course.
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Tylanas
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Posted: 02-22-07 10:48am
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| Moo
wrote: | Excellent post! (I'm biased,
my area and all lol )
Personally I think late term abortions
need to be carried out with as much care
as any other medical procedure - the
injection is supposed to be administered
before delivery and so it should be!
If a baby is born alive due to a 'botched'
abortion then it needs to be given the
same care as any other premature -
although homicide wouldn't exactly be
appropriate there would be huge scope for
negligence and, herfore manslaughter
(gross negligence masnslaughter) if a
professional ignored their duty of care.
I appreciate that if the woman wants the
abortion then that is her right but, if
born alive, that is a person in it's own
right. If it fails to respind to it (as
one would imagine it inevitably will) then
so be it but medical attention should
still be administered if it is born alive
- in circumstances other than abortion
this would be the case.
If doctors are not willing to perform this
then don't do late term abortions!
My opinion only, of
course. |
I agree.
One thing I would like to add is that the
mother is absolutely not
responsible for that child unless she
wants to be. Many women would be willing
to take the baby, but some women would
not, and I personally think they dont have
any responsibility to that child. It
should be cared for and put up for
adoption.
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Jules
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Posted: 02-22-07 10:57am
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Hmmm...yeah, I think there's no option but
to attempt to preserve the life of the
baby once it's born, no matter how
premature. At least make sure the baby is
free from pain and is warm and as
comfortable as possible. I've read of
such babies being left to die without any
blankets or comfort whatsoever, presumably
because the baby dies quicker that way.
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Tylanas
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Posted: 02-22-07 10:58am
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| PurestGreen
wrote: | | Hmmm...yeah, I think there's
no option but to attempt to preserve the
life of the baby once it's born, no matter
how premature. At least make sure the
baby is free from pain and is warm and as
comfortable as possible. I've read of
such babies being left to die without any
blankets or comfort whatsoever, presumably
because the baby dies quicker that
way. |
yes, I think that goes beyond "natural
selection" and enters the realm of
cruelty.
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jenn_smithson
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Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 808
Location: Texas
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Posted: 02-22-07 14:54pm
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| PurestGreen
wrote: | Taken from: http://www.timesonline.co.uk
A
GOVERNMENT agency is launching an inquiry
into doctors’ reports that up to 50
babies a year are born alive after botched
National Health Service abortions.
The investigation, by the Confidential
Enquiry into Maternal and Child Health
(CEMACH), comes amid growing unease among
clinicians over a legal ambiguity that
could see them being charged with
infanticide.
The Royal College of Obstetricians and
Gynaecologists, which regulates methods of
abortion, has also mounted its own
investigation.
Its guidelines say that babies aborted
after more than 21 weeks and six days of
gestation should have their hearts stopped
by an injection of potassium chloride
before being delivered. In practice, few
doctors are willing or able to perform the
delicate procedure.
For the abortion of younger foetuses,
labour is induced by drugs in the
expectation that the infant will not
survive the birth process. Guidelines say
that doctors should ensure that the drugs
they use prevent such babies being alive
at birth.
In practice, according to Stuart Campbell,
former professor of obstetrics and
gynaecology at St George’s hospital,
London, a number do survive.
“They can be born breathing and crying
at 19 weeks’ gestation,” he said. “I
am not anti-abortion, but as far as I am
concerned this is sub-standard
medicine.”
“If a baby is born alive following a
failed abortion and then dies (because of
lack of care), you could potentially be
charged with not a nice act,” said
Shantala Vadeyar, a consultant
obstetrician at South Manchester
University Hospitals NHS Trust, who led
the study.
I think that if the doctors can be found
negligent in that they did not administer
the injection to stop the foetal heart,
and the baby is born alive, then they
should be prosecuted. I'm not sure that
'infanticide' is appropriate though
because if a 19 week old baby is born
alive, is it really the kindest thing to
do to try to keep it alive? It would most
likely be doomed to a life of medical
problems (not to mention growing up
knowing its mother tried to have it
killed).
Anyone got any
opinions? |
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Jules
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Posted: 02-22-07 15:01pm
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I think if the doctor knows they are not
trained to perform their job properly then
they should not attempt to do those
operations that are beyond their skill.
If they do so then they should be
prosecuted, suckers the higher powers that
allow them to do so.
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Carifairy
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Posted: 02-22-07 15:01pm
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ALSO, you must understand that these are
not suction abortions that they are
talking about, they are "labor and
delivery induction abortions". These
aboriton procedures are done for women
with fetal deformity issues, otherwise
suction abortion is far easier than
l&d, and suction is used.
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Jules
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Posted: 02-22-07 15:11pm
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| Carifairy
wrote: | | ALSO, you must understand
that these are not suction abortions that
they are talking about, they are "labor
and delivery induction abortions". These
aboriton procedures are done for women
with fetal deformity issues, otherwise
suction abortion is far easier than
l&d, and suction is
used. |
Why is a different procedure used
depending on the reason for the abortion?
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Tylanas
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Posted: 02-22-07 15:18pm
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| PurestGreen
wrote: | | Carifairy
wrote: | | ALSO, you must understand
that these are not suction abortions that
they are talking about, they are "labor
and delivery induction abortions". These
aboriton procedures are done for women
with fetal deformity issues, otherwise
suction abortion is far easier than
l&d, and suction is
used. |
Why is a different procedure used
depending on the reason for the
abortion? |
These are clearly late term abortions,
which is why induced labor is being ussed.
Because these abortions are so late, they
are normally illegal for "on-demand"
abortions. So, the only reason these
abortions are being done is in order to
end the deformed/etc fetus' life before it
begins, so they do not go through a short,
painful, possibly humiliating life. These
abortions are done on wanted children who
simply shouldn't come into the world.
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Jules
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Posted: 02-22-07 15:26pm
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I see, so the babies are 'born' so that
they can be buried, is that right? It
must be heartbreaking to give birth to
your baby, knowing there won't be a cry at
the end... 
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Tylanas
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Posted: 02-22-07 22:15pm
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| PurestGreen
wrote: | | I see, so the babies are
'born' so that they can be buried, is that
right? It must be heartbreaking to give
birth to your baby, knowing there won't be
a cry at the end... |
Yes, basically. That's why these cases are
tragic; there is often nothing that can be
done for the fetus to make it "better",
and so the humanest choice is abortion
before pain.
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nightangel73
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Posted: 02-22-07 23:33pm
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| Moo
wrote: | Excellent post! (I'm biased,
my area and all lol )
Personally I think late term abortions
need to be carried out with as much care
as any other medical procedure - the
injection is supposed to be administered
before delivery and so it should be!
If a baby is born alive due to a 'botched'
abortion then it needs to be given the
same care as any other premature -
although homicide wouldn't exactly be
appropriate there would be huge scope for
negligence and, herfore manslaughter
(gross negligence masnslaughter) if a
professional ignored their duty of care.
I appreciate that if the woman wants the
abortion then that is her right but, if
born alive, that is a person in it's own
right. If it fails to respind to it (as
one would imagine it inevitably will) then
so be it but medical attention should
still be administered if it is born alive
- in circumstances other than abortion
this would be the case.
If doctors are not willing to perform this
then don't do late term abortions!
My opinion only, of
course. |
See Moo this is interesting how human
physcology works. The woman goes to have
an abortion so she wants to get rid of the
baby. Then the abortion is botched and the
baby born alive. Then the baby is thrown
away alive and dies. Well she went to get
rid of baby and the purpose was done. The
only thing I see different is the way the
baby is killed. One by lethal injection,
the other by being thrown away. It just
looks uglier to be thrown away i guess
because you can actually see the baby
taking the last breath while in the womb
nobody can see him dying. It's homicide
either way.
don't forget pro-choice think that passing
through a vagina entitles people to have
the right of living.
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Tylanas
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Posted: 02-22-07 23:39pm
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| nightangel73
wrote: | | Moo
wrote: | Excellent post! (I'm biased,
my area and all lol )
Personally I think late term abortions
need to be carried out with as much care
as any other medical procedure - the
injection is supposed to be administered
before delivery and so it should be!
If a baby is born alive due to a 'botched'
abortion then it needs to be given the
same care as any other premature -
although homicide wouldn't exactly be
appropriate there would be huge scope for
negligence and, herfore manslaughter
(gross negligence masnslaughter) if a
professional ignored their duty of care.
I appreciate that if the woman wants the
abortion then that is her right but, if
born alive, that is a person in it's own
right. If it fails to respind to it (as
one would imagine it inevitably will) then
so be it but medical attention should
still be administered if it is born alive
- in circumstances other than abortion
this would be the case.
If doctors are not willing to perform this
then don't do late term abortions!
My opinion only, of
course. |
See Moo this is interesting how human
physcology works. The woman goes to have
an abortion so she wants to get rid of the
baby. Then the abortion is botched and the
baby born alive. Then the baby is thrown
away alive and dies. Well she went to get
rid of baby and the purpose was done. The
only thing I see different is the way the
baby is killed.
|
The baby was killed by being
thrown into a trashcan, and that is wrong.
But firstly, these are not women who want
to abort for early-term reasons. These
women don't necessarily want to abort at
all, but they are realists and know that
it is the best thing for the fetus.
| Quote: | | One by lethal
injection, the other by being thrown
away. |
Wrong. The fetus is killed by lethal
injection. The baby is killed by being
thrown away.
| Quote: | | It just looks
uglier to be thrown away i guess because
you can actually see the baby taking the
last breath while in the womb nobody can
see him dying. It's homicide either
way. |
No, it is "uglier" because it is a born
live baby. Yes, that matter of biology
matters.
| Quote: | | don't forget
pro-choice think that passing through a
vagina entitles people to have the right
of living. |
Heck yes it does, if the baby is wanted.
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Carifairy
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Posted: 02-23-07 02:35am
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Purest green-
Suction abortion can be done to 24-26+
WEEKS, but many women with fetal deformity
choose l&d abortion.
The reason they choose this is for
'closure purposes'. That was a wanted
pregnancy, so they often want to hold the
baby, have cremation, burial, or even an
autopsy to find out more info about the
disease.
L&D would be the only procedure in
which a fetus could possibly live.
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vanessalouanne
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Posted: 02-23-07 03:20am
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So abortion because of deformity.. Who are
we to decide what is worthy to terminate a
pregnancy? In china it is if a baby..Oh
im sorry a fetus is female.. Is that
concidered one? How about when science is
more advanced.. Not having blue eyes or
blonde hair? I'm sorry but first off I
can't understand how any woman who is far
enough to long to feel her child move can
decide that because it is not perfect she
is going to "get rid of it" In my opinion
if your not ready to love a child for
whoever and or whatever that child is your
not ready to be a parent.
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Cambion
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Posted: 02-23-07 10:38am
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| Quote: | | So abortion
because of deformity.. Who are we to
decide what is worthy to terminate a
pregnancy? |
There's nothing wrong with having an
opinion on the matter. I myself think it's
far more humane to abort a mutant fetus
than carry it to term - it's rather cruel
to allow an innocent child to suffer just
because the parents just had to have their
holy almighty baby at any cost...including
the child's comfort.
| Quote: | | How about when
science is more advanced.. Not having blue
eyes or blonde
hair? |
Actually, from what I read about a year
ago, technology is being developed that
allows people to select not only their
child's gender, but the color of their
eyes and what they would be good at
(sports, art, etc.). It was a whole story
on 'designer babies' from reader's digest.
Amazing how people who support abortion
are accused of playing god, but people who
would screw around with biology like this
to create a perfect little baby are
practically saints.
| Quote: | | Suction abortion
can be done to 24-26+ WEEKS, but many
women with fetal deformity choose l&d
abortion. |
Holy crap, I didn't know suction abortion
was done up to six months. How can a fetus
that large possibly be suctioned out of
the woman's body?
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Jules
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Posted: 02-23-07 10:54am
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| Cambion
wrote: | | Actually, from what I read
about a year ago, technology is being
developed that allows people to select not
only their child's gender, but the color
of their eyes and what they would be good
at (sports, art, etc.). It was a whole
story on 'designer babies' from reader's
digest. Amazing how people who support
abortion are accused of playing god, but
people who would screw around with biology
like this to create a perfect little baby
are practically
saints. |
I've never heard the opinion that people
who would mess with genetics like that are
saints 
Quite the opposite in fact...
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Jules
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Posted: 02-23-07 10:57am
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| Cambion
wrote: | | I didn't know suction
abortion was done up to six months. How
can a fetus that large possibly be
suctioned out of the woman's
body? |
Isn't it cut into little pieces first?
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Tylanas
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Posted: 02-23-07 12:24pm
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I believe that as much as possible is
suctioned out, and the rest pulled out via
forceps, including the skull which must be
collapsed first.
This does sound painful, though the debate
is up right now for fetuses of this age
feeling pain or not, which is why it is so
imperative that the fetus is injected
first!
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