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Jules

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What Makes Humans So Special? Posted: 03-08-07 11:22am


I understand why murder is considered such a heinous crime because when a born human being is killed, it not only takes away their right to life but deeply affects all those with whom the victim has relationships ie/ parents, partner, children etc. However, when it comes to the unborn, why should their lives hold any special significance? At the end of the day, we are simply intellegent animals whose lives/deaths hold no importance in the 'big scheme of things'. After all, when the .Earth eventually dies, what will it matter what human beings did, who lived, who died and how? I would like to hear people's thoughts on this.

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Re: What Makes Humans So Special?
Posted: 03-08-07 12:33pm

PurestGreen wrote:

I understand why murder is considered such a heinous crime because when a born human being is killed, it not only takes away their right to life but deeply affects all those with whom the victim has relationships ie/ parents, partner, children etc.

However, when it comes to the unborn, why should their lives hold any special significance? At the end of the day, we are simply intellegent animals whose lives/deaths hold no importance in the 'big scheme of things'. After all, when the .Earth eventually dies, what will it matter what human beings did, who lived, who died and how?

I would like to hear people's thoughts on this.

Special significance as in, more important that the grown woman who is hosting the fetus? I don't feel fetuses do have more of a significance. I feel they have less.

Jules

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Posted: 03-08-07 12:46pm


I suppose this question is aimed more at the pro-lifers but I forget, there aren't many left around here!

diamondsz

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Posted: 03-08-07 13:50pm


They do and they dont, to a mother who wants the fetus than yes it has a signifigance and is seen in a positive light, if a mother does not want it, it has no signifigance and is merely a burden. I love my kids, truly dont get me wrong but it was wrong timing, my daughter was planned which was ok and my son wasnt and I hated the pregnancy the whole time, I felt forced and have less of an attachment with him. just to add something that I thought was funny> it is a crime to utter a death threat to an animal lol so brings us back to do animals have the same value of life as we do?

Guest

Posted: 03-08-07 17:44pm


What is your significance? Do you want to be respected for what you do, for what you own, for your productivity for your appearence, or simply for who you are? Abortion isnt about a womans right at all, you may believe it is, you may think pro lifers are women haters, mysoginists its not the case, to pro life people, Abortion is a life issue that effects all humanity. When we start putting a human beings worth on somethig other than their very being it leaves the doors open for people to determine the worth of every human being. Some may say its birth, others the colour of the skin, others their phsical abilities, others their age, others their productivity within society. it just so happens that one paticualr group has been given legal rights by the government, if the government decide black people had no rights based on the colour of their skin thus gave white people the right to kill black people it would be wrong. the only way we can protect all human beings is to say all human beings are of equal worth, we can/do not have equal rights when their is any room for peope to determine the worth of other human beings. there maybe a difference in appearance between a black man and a white man, physical difference between a Woman and a man there maybe a social difference between someone on welfare and a doctor but what makes a white man killing a black man based on his skin colour wrong, what makes a man killing his wife wrong and what make the doctor killing the man on welfare wrong is that all human beings are of equal worth, once that line is crossed even ever so slightly, then the doors are opened for any group to believe they have the right to decide the worth of other human beings. From the slight crossing of the line in abortion we now have euthinasia, infantecide, where will it lead? What is the differnce between a White man killing a black man because he dosnt like black men living in the same place as him and having rights in the society that white people founded and a woman killing her Child be she dosnt want a child living inside her body a body that she has owned and looked after all these years? a unborn child isnt sentient? so what a black man isnt white? You see what I mean dont you? Once one group of people have the right to determine the worth of another group of human beings, then what is to stop another group of people claiming the right to determine the worth of a different group of human beings? "They do and they dont, to a mother who wants the fetus than yes it has a signifigance and is seen in a positive light, if a mother does not want it, it has no signifigance and is merely a burden. " I dont mean to chastize you, but I want to point out the flaw in your analysis, taking into account what I have said above and in relation to your statement I am going to make a statement (that is only for illustraton purposes only, it is not my opinion at all) What worth has a slave? As slave has no worth? They do and they dont, to a slave owner who wants the slave than yes it has a signifigance and is seen in a positive light, if a slave owner does not want it, it has no signifigance and is merely a burden. Change mother to Slave owner and Fetus to Slave and dont forget to call the slave "it" as well. But then again not everyone believes the way I do, so I guess its ok to for governments to take away the rights of black men and allow white men to kill them,who am I to stand in their way, I have never owned a slave, I dont know what its like, If I dont want to kill slaves I wont but what Right have I to take away the rights of slave owners?

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Posted: 03-08-07 18:38pm

Guest, those are not accurate analogies. Fetus aren't developed or born human beings with independent thought, feelings, or the biological ability to sustain life.
Slaves/African americans don't live inside women.

I'm sure everyone else is sick of me saying this, but instead of putting a stamp on abortion, someone like yourself might want to look into the reasons women get abortions. You may not view them as valid, or agree with them, but the reality is that women get abortions for reasons such as finances, in school, no support, etc. Take these reasons and find ways to help pregnant women so they don't have to have abortions because of them. Just saying "all abortions should be outlawed" isnt' going to change that women will have unwanted pregnancies and they and their unborn will need help.

What's that quote? Women want abortions like a bear chews off it's leg in a trap or something? Get rid of the trap so she can keep her leg. If she wants to.

purestgreen wrote:

I understand why homicide is considered such a heinous crime because when a born human being is killed, it not only takes away their right to life but deeply affects all those with whom the victim has relationships ie/ parents, partner, children etc.

However, when it comes to the unborn, why should their lives hold any special significance? At the end of the day, we are simply intellegent animals whose lives/deaths hold no importance in the 'big scheme of things'. After all, when the .Earth eventually dies, what will it matter what human beings did, who lived, who died and how?

I would like to hear people's thoughts on this.

I firmly believe we are obviously intelligent animals and our lives are not 'worth more' than the ladybug on my window, my dog laying beside me (grizzly), and the flower growing on my shelf (hiacynth). Each has a purpose, but no living thing is more important than another.

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Posted: 03-08-07 18:44pm

diamondsz wrote:

I love my kids, truly dont get me wrong but it was wrong timing, my daughter was planned which was ok and my son wasnt and I hated the pregnancy the whole time, I felt forced and have less of an attachment with him.

diamond I would like that you explain me more of that you have less of an attachment with your son because it was unwanted pregnancy. So does that mean that if your son dies now you would cry less and suffer less than if it was your daughter the one who dies? I'm just curious.

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Re: What Makes Humans So Special?
Posted: 03-08-07 18:48pm

PurestGreen wrote:

aha I have a very simple answer for you which of course the agnostics will not agree with me. The life of the human beings is important because we are the animals made to the image of god.

Guest

Posted: 03-08-07 19:53pm


"Guest, those are not accurate analogies. Fetus aren't developed or born human beings with independent thought, feelings, or the biological ability to sustain life. Slaves/African americans don't live inside women." I aready adressed the excuses, it dosnt wash. you claim your right to kill human beings is based on their lack of independent thought, feelings, or the ability to sustain life. also adding Slaves/African americans don't live inside women." A slave owners claim could easily be they are not indipendent from my ownership, they do not have civilized thought, they are animals no more than apes,they are not civilized enough to sustain any meaning full life They live on my land and are my responsibility. The reasons are not the same, the excuses are not the same, i am not drawing a similarity between the two, what I am trying to point out is that everyone can rhyme off excuses why its ok to kill a human being, it proves nothing regarding the worth of a human being... excuses proves one thingv and one thing only.... the act itself needs an excuse! "I'm sure everyone else is sick of me saying this, but instead of putting a stamp on abortion, someone like yourself might want to look into the reasons women get abortions. You may not view them as valid, or agree with them, but the reality is that women get abortions for reasons such as finances, in school, no support, etc. Take these reasons and find ways to help pregnant women so they don't have to have abortions because of them. Just saying "all abortions should be outlawed" isnt' going to change that women will have unwanted pregnancies and they and their unborn will need help." Dont you get it, I am not primeraly interested in the act of abortion or why people get them, I am pro life, I am interested in the good of all people, abortion is only one part of it. I am not pro life to save babies (although I have) I am pro life primerally to deviate the course of history away from a future where those who are deemed as (you put it) "a burden" are not murdered, or "aborted" dont you get it? This issue is far more bigger than a few 16yr old girls who accidently got pregnant killing their children... we are talking about the expolitation the enslavment of the entire human race and those who dont cut the cloth, who are not strong enough to give our enslavers what they want will just be killed all you can see is a few women with insignificant lifestyle issues

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Posted: 03-08-07 21:01pm

nightangel73 wrote:

diamondsz wrote:

I probally would have less of an attachment to my son if he passed, not that I wish that but its true when I think of my kids I always want to put my daughter first. Funny thing is there is others who think like but because society views this as disgracful thinking, people do not open up, they do not tell people how they feel for fear of getting disowned from society.

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Posted: 03-08-07 21:21pm

diamondsz wrote:

nightangel73 wrote:

diamondsz wrote:

I see. Thanks for sharing your honest opinion.

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Posted: 03-08-07 21:22pm


I agree diamond... More people need to open up and be truly honest about their feelings, because it may help someone else realise where they could change.

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Posted: 03-08-07 22:18pm

Carifairy wrote:

I agree diamond... More people need to open up and be truly honest about their feelings, because it may help someone else realise where they could change.

carifairy so long time not seeing you around here, being busy?

Tylanas

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Posted: 03-08-07 22:21pm


What guest has failed to notice is .S.c.i.e.n.c.e has proven all of the statements made about fetuses and why they are nor worthy. Guest also fails to give a damn about a woman's right to her body.

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Posted: 03-08-07 23:45pm

Eiri wrote:

What guest has failed to notice is

.S.c.i.e.n.c.e

has proven all of the statements made about fetuses and why they are nor worthy.

Guest also fails to give a damn about a woman's right to her body.

science has not defined what kind of livings are self worth or life and which are not. Science has only defined the physiology of the human being. Self worthiness of the human life is defined by the people based on morality.

diamondsz

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Posted: 03-09-07 00:45am


What makes a human so special? Individualism meaning everyones own unique personality so if a fetus cannot demonstrate that why should it have equal rights to a person?

Tylanas

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Posted: 03-09-07 02:01am

nightangel73 wrote:

Eiri wrote:

I base worthiness off of these physical and physiological facts, not off a pile of steaming spiritual crap.

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Posted: 03-09-07 06:55am

diamondsz wrote:

What makes a human so special? Individualism meaning everyones own unique personality so if a fetus cannot demonstrate that why should it have equal rights to a person?

then a new born should not have equal rights because his own unique personality doesn't show yet.

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Posted: 03-09-07 08:10am

guest wrote:

The reasons are not the same, the excuses are not the same, i am not drawing a similarity between the two, what I am trying to point out is that everyone can rhyme off excuses why its ok to kill a human being, it proves nothing regarding the worth of a human being... excuses proves one thingv and one thing only.... the act itself needs an excuse!

Then why are you comparing them?
There are legitimate excuses to "kill off human beings". For example, if they are in my womb. Another reason, they have no independent function from my womb. Here's one more: they are fully dependent on me for sustaining their life, and maybe I have other plans.

I don't think people need "excuses" or to "justify" their abortions. I am in no position to judge their actions.

guest wrote:

Dont you get it, I am not primeraly interested in the act of abortion or why people get them, I am pro life, I am interested in the good of all people, abortion is only one part of it. I am not pro life to save babies (although I have) I am pro life primerally to deviate the course of history away from a future where those who are deemed as (you put it) "a burden" are not not a nice acted, or "aborted" dont you get it? This issue is far more bigger than a few 16yr old girls who accidently got pregnant killing their children... we are talking about the expolitation the enslavment of the entire human race and those who dont cut the cloth, who are not strong enough to give our enslavers what they want will just be killed all you can see is a few women with insignificant lifestyle issues

I don't get it. So you'd rather haze over when hearing why women get abortions than address the reasons and try to fix it that way? What do you think is going to work to change the number of abortions? Just 'bam' illegalizing it? Okay, fine, but is that going to help the babies who are conceived by unwilling mothers? No. You are going to need to address the reasons why women have abortions if you want to make a difference.

I don't just see a few women with insignificant lifestyle issues. You are minimalizing the subject. I see millions of women with legit reasons for not wanting children. Until you give creedence to their problems, and address them, you are not going to make anyone's lives better; including the babies you so desperately want to save.

Thanks .Diamondsz for sharing. That must have been a tough pregnancy to go through.

Nightangel, I'm sure when you have children you'll see that newborns do have a unique personality. Smile

Guest

Posted: 03-10-07 08:20am


"What guest has failed to notice is .S.c.i.e.n.c.e has proven all of the statements made about fetuses and why they are nor worthy. Guest also fails to give a damn about a woman's right to her body." Science has proved some of the statments made about fetus'. Science has not at all determined who is worthy. Science has also proved many pro life statements about the unborn child also. Such as. 1. The Unborn Child is: a human being from the moment of conception/fertilisation 2. The Unborn Child is: Alive and Growing from the moment of Conception/Fertalisation 3. The Unborn Child has: all the charictaristics that makes that Child a distinct individual person But science can not prove the worth of human beings of children that is something society must do. Christians believe that "god" Confers rights on all human beings - That I believe is the safest way, then everyone has to recognise the rights of others. errie: "I base worthiness off " You base worthiness?... I think you should get over your enlarged ego that has you convinced that you can determin who is worthy of life and who is not.... You say you base worthiness off.....blah, blah blah.... and unborn Children are Killed. A Racisit says he bases worthiness off.... Blah, Blah, Blah.... and those of a different race to him are killed. Another man said he based worthiness off... Blah, blah, Blah.... and 6 million Jews were killed. Another man said he based worthiness off....Blah, blah, Blah.... and 20 million Catholic's were killed Another man said he bases worthiness of.....Blah, blah, Blah..... and the unemployed are killed Another man says he bases worthiness off..blah blah blah....and the homeless are killed. Another man says he bases worthiness off...blah, blah, blah ...and prisoners are killed. That is the problem you are advocating that you yourself have the right to determine the worthiness of other human beings, you are not the first "mad man" to proclaim this and unfortunatly you wont be the last...because your example others will follow - the ideology that an individual has the right to determine the worth of another human being means that no human being is safe except the strongest and most violent - survival of the fitest and the young, weak and helpless are the first victims of the jungle's wild animals.