Lack of Kids For Adoption Posted: 03-19-07 22:20pm
I was talking with my fiance's mom and she
was telling me how the number of kids in
the adoption centers has decreased because
of the women aborting babies nowadays. She
told that yeah infertile couples looking
babies to adopt they can't have them cause
there is none.
I think we are going to see a higher
demand for fertility treatments in the
future as the abortion rates keep growing.
If I played the stock market I would buy
stock now from pharma companies with a
good fertility drug profile.
Maybe adoption from overseas will be of
high demand too. What you guys think?
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diamondsz
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Re: Lack of Kids For Adoption Posted: 03-19-07 22:21pm
nightangel73
wrote:
I was talking with my
fiance's mom and she was telling me how
the number of kids in the adoption centers
has decreased because of the women
aborting babies nowadays. She told that
yeah infertile couples looking babies to
adopt they can't have them cause there is
none.
I think we are going to see a higher
demand for fertility treatments in the
future as the abortion rates keep growing.
If I played the stock market I would buy
stock now from pharma companies with a
good fertility drug profile.
Maybe adoption from overseas will be of
high demand too. What you guys
think?
Good their is millions of children
overseas waiting for a good home to go to~
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Moo
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Posted: 03-20-07 06:32am
I don't think it is one womans
responsibility to carry an unwanted
pregnancy so that an infertile couple can
adopt.
if a woman choses adoption then that's
great but the fact is that not all women
with an unwanted pregnancy will want to go
through the pregnancy/birth and then place
the child for adoption and that is her
right to chose not to.
I think adoption is a wonderful thing but
people also need to realise that there are
older kids out there in need of a good
home - not just babies
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Birch
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Re: Lack of Kids For Adoption Posted: 03-20-07 11:35am
nightangel73
wrote:
I was talking with my
fiance's mom and she was telling me how
the number of kids in the adoption centers
has decreased because of the women
aborting babies nowadays. She told that
yeah infertile couples looking babies to
adopt they can't have them cause there is
none.
I think we are going to see a higher
demand for fertility treatments in the
future as the abortion rates keep growing.
If I played the stock market I would buy
stock now from pharma companies with a
good fertility drug profile.
Maybe adoption from overseas will be of
high demand too. What you guys
think?
Great! Then kids aren't sitting around
without families. How could this be
anything but good?
It wouldn't happen to be because of a
wider use of contraception as well, would
it? How does she know it's b/c of
abortion? Could it also be because open
adoptions, interracial adoptions, and
gay/lesbian adoptions have been on the
rise, too?
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jenn_smithson
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 808 Location: Texas
Posted: 03-20-07 18:58pm
nightangel73
wrote:
I was talking with my
fiance's mom and she was telling me how
the number of kids in the adoption centers
has decreased because of the women
aborting babies nowadays. She told that
yeah infertile couples looking babies to
adopt they can't have them cause there is
none.
Woah - are you talking
about children or are you talking about
infants?
It actually doesn't matter because your
faince's mom is full of crap either way.
There are neither less infants and are
certainly not any fewer children in the
system than there was in the past. There
are literally hundreds of thousands of
children available domestically for
adoption. They range in age from newborn
to 17.
Quote:
I think we are
going to see a higher demand for fertility
treatments in the future as the abortion
rates keep
growing.
Um, the abortion rates
have nothing to do with fertility
treatments and have actuallydecreased in the past.
Abortion rates deceased through the 90's
and have remained steady since 2001.
In contrast, the demand for fertility
treatments has skyrocketed even though
abortion rates have decreased. This
demand is entirely independent from
abortion access or rates because two very
different underlying principles are at
play. With fertility treatments,
traditionally infertile couples are given
the opportunity to have their own
biological children. The desire to have
your own biological children has always
been very, very high. Now that the tools
are available to help those who otherwise
would not have that, these people are
utilizing these tools. Adoptions has
always been a final
resort for these people because they have
the money to try other options.
Let me just re-emphasize that abortion
rates have .n.o.t increased and in fact,
have greatly decreased from what they used
to be.
Quote:
Maybe adoption
from overseas will be of high demand too.
What you guys
think?
Overseas adoption has
become more popular because more gay
couples are choosing to adopt and they
usually have an easier time of it from
other countries than they do here. It,
too, has nothing to do with abortion.
Next time, do a little research before you
post such nonsense.
|
nightangel73
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Posted: 03-20-07 20:58pm
jenn_smithson
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
I was talking with my
fiance's mom and she was telling me how
the number of kids in the adoption centers
has decreased because of the women
aborting babies nowadays. She told that
yeah infertile couples looking babies to
adopt they can't have them cause there is
none.
Woah - are you talking
about children or are you talking about
infants?
It actually doesn't matter because your
faince's mom is full of crap either way.
There are neither less infants and are
certainly not any fewer children in the
system than there was in the past. There
are literally hundreds of thousands of
children available domestically for
adoption. They range in age from newborn
to 17.
Quote:
I think we are
going to see a higher demand for fertility
treatments in the future as the abortion
rates keep
growing.
Um, the abortion rates
have nothing to do with fertility
treatments and have actuallydecreased in the past.
Abortion rates deceased through the 90's
and have remained steady since 2001.
In contrast, the demand for fertility
treatments has skyrocketed even though
abortion rates have decreased. This
demand is entirely independent from
abortion access or rates because two very
different underlying principles are at
play. With fertility treatments,
traditionally infertile couples are given
the opportunity to have their own
biological children. The desire to have
your own biological children has always
been very, very high. Now that the tools
are available to help those who otherwise
would not have that, these people are
utilizing these tools. Adoptions has
always been a final
resort for these people because they have
the money to try other options.
Let me just re-emphasize that abortion
rates have .n.o.t increased and in fact,
have greatly decreased from what they used
to be.
Quote:
Maybe adoption
from overseas will be of high demand too.
What you guys
think?
Overseas adoption has
become more popular because more gay
couples are choosing to adopt and they
usually have an easier time of it from
other countries than they do here. It,
too, has nothing to do with abortion.
Next time, do a little research before you
post such
nonsense.
i think you need to do research jenn
because i can tell you that my fiance's
mom knows what she is talking about. And
she is sure way older than you and a high
professional.
It makes sense that if women abort babies
obvisoulsy there are going to be less to
adopt. That's not rocket science. It is
interesting to think about it what the
infertile couples would do with no
children to adopt. My cousin and his wife
are infertile and they can't afford ivf's
so it's a reality that not all infertile
couple have money for fertility
treatments.
thankyou for sharing your thoughs jenn.
For being nonsense I appreciate you wrote
quite a bit
|
jenn_smithson
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 808 Location: Texas
Posted: 03-20-07 21:36pm
nightangel73
wrote:
i think you need to do research jenn
because i can tell you that my fiance's
mom knows what she is talking about. And
she is sure way older than you and a high
professional.
I'm calling you on your
bull sh-t. Post your sources for the
above claims.
Quote:
It makes sense
that if women abort babies obvisoulsy
there are going to be less to
adopt.
No, it only makes sense
to those who don't, can't, or won't
think.
It can only be obviously true .i.f more
abortions are occurring than are live
births. This is not true nor has it ever
been for the united states. More live
births occur than abortions. Of the live
births that do occur, a substantial number
of them .d.o end up in either an adoption
or the children are eventually taken by
child protective services.
There aren't any fewer children in the
system, unfortunately for them. Your
claims, therefore, are untrue.
Quote:
That's not
rocket
science.
No, it's simple
mathematics and statistics of which you
continually demonstrate that you know
little of.
Quote:
It is
interesting to think about it what the
infertile couples would do with no
children to adopt. My cousin and his wife
are infertile and they can't afford ivf's
so it's a reality that not all infertile
couple have money for fertility
treatments.
I didn't say that they
do. However, your assertion was that as
abortion rates increase, adoption levels
decrease. This assertion is false on
numerous levels. First, it
is wrong because abortion rates
have .n.o.t increased! Second, it
is wrong because adoption rates
have .n.o.t decreased. Third it
is wrong because abortion rates
have no impact on adoption rates - not
even a correlary impact! You are trying
to compare apples to doorknobs to make
some sort of emotional statement about
abortion that just isn't true or
legitimate.
Quote:
thankyou for
sharing your thoughs jenn. For being
nonsense I appreciate you wrote quite a
bit
It's nonsense because you
are trying to parade your opinion as fact
when it is not and when your ideas are
untrue.
Unlike your opinions, we can actually
measure many things about abortion and
adoption. Your opinions do not match the
.a.c.t.u.a.l proof.
And once an educator, always an educator.
I saw you spouting absolute crap and felt
it necessary to educate you and anyone
else who may read it.
|
Birch
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Posted: 03-20-07 22:18pm
quote="nightangel73"]i think you need to
do research jenn because i can tell you
that my fiance's mom knows what she is
talking about. And she is sure way older
than you and a high professional.[/QUOTE]
Your fiance's mom is a high professional?
Dude, so she like, does the green, eh?
Seriously though, does she work in an
adoption agency?
nightangel73
wrote:
It makes sense that if women
abort babies obvisoulsy there are going to
be less to adopt. That's not rocket
science. It is interesting to think about
it what the infertile couples would do
with no children to adopt. My cousin and
his wife are infertile and they can't
afford ivf's so it's a reality that not
all infertile couple have money for
fertility
treatments.
*Waves her hand wildly in the air* I know!
I know! I know what infertile couples
will do with no children to adopt!
They won't have children. Rocket science
at it's best!
Maybe they'll adopt a dog or two.
But since this is all terribly
hypothetical and absolutely impossible I'm
sure that there will always be plenty of
children to adopt. Have no fear,
nightangel; teens will have babies, women
will commit crimes and go to jail, parents
will abuse their children, parents will
die, crazy people will leave their
children on doorstops. There will never
be a shortage.
|
nightangel73
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Posted: 03-20-07 23:22pm
Birch
wrote:
Your fiance's mom is a high professional?
Dude, so she like, does the green, eh?
Seriously though, does she work in an
adoption agency?
nightangel73
wrote:
It makes sense that if women
abort babies obvisoulsy there are going to
be less to adopt. That's not rocket
science. It is interesting to think about
it what the infertile couples would do
with no children to adopt. My cousin and
his wife are infertile and they can't
afford ivf's so it's a reality that not
all infertile couple have money for
fertility
treatments.
*Waves her hand wildly in the air* I know!
I know! I know what infertile couples
will do with no children to adopt!
They won't have children. Rocket science
at it's best!
Maybe they'll adopt a dog or two.
But since this is all terribly
hypothetical and absolutely impossible I'm
sure that there will always be plenty of
children to adopt. Have no fear,
nightangel; teens will have babies, women
will commit crimes and go to jail, parents
will abuse their children, parents will
die, crazy people will leave their
children on doorstops. There will never
be a
shortage.
Thank you birch that is relieving to know
just in case me or my fiance are
infertile. ;P
My fiance's mom is an executive fundraiser
for non-profit organization (like
orphanages) so she knows well what goes on
with this kind of agencies. And yes she
claims there is shortage (at least for VA
that's how it is)
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Moo
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Posted: 03-21-07 06:36am
nightangel73
wrote:
It makes sense that if women abort babies
obvisoulsy there are going to be less to
adopt.
Not necessarily - this is presuming that
women who abort would automatically have
their child adopted if they didn't have
the abortion which just isn't true - there
are more choices than simply two!
Adoption was the last option for me, I had
parenting before it!
|
Cambion
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Posted: 03-22-07 04:36am
When you say there's a lack of children to
adopt, do you mean all children? Or do you
just mean a lack of blonde, blue-eyed
white babies? Color me crazy, but I think
it's wonderful that fewer children are in
the system - of course, this could also
mean more people who are unfit for
parenthood are keeping their children and
neglecting/abusing the kids. As Moo said,
it shouldn't be some woman's
responsibility to put her baby up for
adoption so an infertile couple can adopt.
Besides that, infertile couples always
seem to opt for IVF because they need a
little dna replicant of themselves,
because adopted kids are 'too messed up',
and so forth.
Abortion rates have declined over the past
ten or so years, and for some godforsaken
reason, the abortion rate among teenagers
(the worst people to be parents) has gone
down. Of course, I have also read other
sources saying that adoption rates have
gone down due to, as you said, an increase
in abortions. Of course, the latter source
also claimed that only two percent of
women who get pregnant in this country put
their kids up for adoption - I definitely
am calling bollocks on that study,
considering there's usually about 500,000
odd kids in the system at any given time.
Do you think perhaps the alleged decline
in adoptive children could also be due to
better contraception, or more people using
it properly or using more than one method?
What about the fact that more people are
choosing to be childfree?
|
jenn_smithson
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Joined: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 808 Location: Texas
Posted: 03-22-07 15:39pm
nightangel73
wrote:
My fiance's mom is an executive fundraiser
for non-profit organization (like
orphanages) so she knows well what goes on
with this kind of agencies. And yes she
claims there is shortage (at least for VA
that's how it
is)
Her claims are not viable
sources of proof. I asked, specifically,
for proof of your claims. You made an
assertion therefore the burden of proof is
on you.
But since you can't prove a woman's
opinions, I'll help you out.
Children in Virginia in foster care
waiting for adoption decreased in the late
90's slightly but have begun to increase
once again. In 2003, for example, 1,572
children were waiting for a home compared
with 2002 when 1, 489 were waiting. "As
of May 2005, there were 1,723 children in
foster care with the goal of adoption."
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/c
b/stats_research/afcars/waiting2003.htm
As you can see from the above and from the
graph listed on the site provided, there
are more children awaiting
adoption in Virginia than there has in the
past 10 years.
"The
number of children available for adoption
will continue to increase as a result of
the implementation of
the federal regulations by local
departments of social services.
Children may need increased services
provided through the subsidized assistance
program. In FY 2005, the Department of
Social Services
recognized a 34% increase in subsidy
payments to adoptive parents of eligible
children. As children get
older, their need for continued services
will increase...The majority of children
in foster care with the goal of adoption
are children with special needs and will
require state and federal funds for
adoption assistance."
http://w
ww.dss.virginia.gov/geninfo/strategic_plan
/files/service_area_plans/children/adoptio
n.pdf
"Nationwide, the number of children placed
in adoptive homes topped 230,000 from 1998
to 2002, more than during the previous 10
years combined, the study found...In
Northern Virginia and the commonwealth as
a whole, comparatively small increases in
adoptions were attributable in part to the
success of efforts to keep children out of
foster care in the first place, state and
local officials said. "We're looking to
find ways to make improvements" not just
in adoptions but "in all areas of foster
care," said Charles Ingram, a spokesman
for the Virginia Department of Social
Services. According to the department's
statistics, Virginia has about 7,600
children in foster care at any time, a
number that has held steady in recent
years. That rate "suggests we are
doing a good job of keeping children in
families, and when we get children in the foster
care system, they may not be the most
desirable children for adoption," Ingram
said. http://www.fosteringresults
.org/results/press/pewpress_10-23-03_washi
ngton.pdf
The number of children available for
adoption in Virginia has held steady for
several years and has actually increased
since new laws were passed encouraging the
state to place children who had been on
backlog for several, several years.
First, let me ask a question relevant to
why you consider your mother's flights of
fantasy worthy of being paraded as fact.
Is the organization that your mother works
for prolife? If it is, then it's not a
huge mystery as to why she
is making unsubstantiated, untrue claims
about the number of children waiting for
homes.
There are not a lack of children waiting
for homes, even babies, in your state. If
anything, there are a lack of parents
willing to take children who are not
babies, not white, and not healthy than a
lack of children.
Further, the most important determining
factor as to whether abortion will
increase, children in foster care
increase, or adoption decreases is the
.e.c.o.n.o.m.y. When the economy
rises, more children are born and less
abortions are performed. This is a
documented fact. When the economy rises
or has been holding steady, less children
are put into foster care but more
adoptions occur. This is a documented
fact. When the economy makes a downward
turn or is in recession for a long period
of time, abortion rates increase, children
in foster care increases, and less
adoptions occur. This is a documented
fact.
More than the legality of abortion or the
number of live births, the economy plays a
profound role in our reproductive lives.
Therefore if you think less adoptions are
occurring in your state (which I have
proven is not true in the past few years),
you need to put the blame where blame is
due - the economy, not abortion. Choosing
to blame something that has absolutely
.n.o impact on adoption at all is either
ignorant or grossly dishonest.
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nightangel73
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Posted: 03-22-07 20:33pm
jenn_smithson
wrote:
Is the organization that your mother works
for prolife? If it is, then it's not a
huge mystery as to why she
is making unsubstantiated, untrue claims
about the number of children waiting for
homes.
oh it's not my mom, it's my fiance's mom.
She is absolutetly pro-choice and very
democrat hehehe
thankyou for looking up the info and
sharing. Maybe I should email to her
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Sunflower_pie81
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Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 5041 Location: to hell with this crap
Posted: 03-26-07 15:28pm
I am sorry but most people wanting to
adopt are not looking to adopt
children....they want babies. so maybe
your statement stands true in that fact.
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Carifairy
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Posted: 03-26-07 15:36pm
Nightangel...
We are both IN NC...
The NC foster system is overloaded with
children needing good homes, charlotte
mecklenburg moreso than any other county!
Yes, fresh from the vagina newborn babies
may be in shorter supply... BUT are 8 year
old children undesirable??
There are Hundreds of thousands of
children in the US foster system, why are
they not good enough to be adopted?
|
nightangel73
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Posted: 03-26-07 17:52pm
Carifairy
wrote:
Nightangel...
We are both IN NC...
The NC foster system is overloaded with
children needing good homes, charlotte
mecklenburg moreso than any other county!
Yes, fresh from the vagina newborn babies
may be in shorter supply... BUT are 8 year
old children undesirable??
There are Hundreds of thousands of
children in the US foster system, why are
they not good enough to be
adopted?
yeah they are good to adopt but let's face
it, it's better when they are babies. If
I'm infertile i would definetly want to
adopt a baby over a grown child. I would
want to see seeing the child growing up
since very little. That's part of the fun.
Also it's better because grown up have
more mental traumas more difficult to deal
with than when they are very little and
raised up by you.
|
Carifairy
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Posted: 03-26-07 18:34pm
EXACTLY.. Because YOU 'want' a baby,
something fresh to mold.
THAT is selfish, just like abortion, but
it is not wrong. You are entitled to have
what you want out of life, but technically
you are being selfish.
IF pro life really cared about children,
then they would advocate adoption from
foster care too IMO..
Nothing against YOU, but so many PL'ers
call pc'ers selfish, yet you are being
selfish by not wanting what is available.
|
Tylanas
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Posted: 03-26-07 20:23pm
nightangel73
wrote:
Carifairy
wrote:
Nightangel...
We are both IN NC...
The NC foster system is overloaded with
children needing good homes, charlotte
mecklenburg moreso than any other county!
Yes, fresh from the vagina newborn babies
may be in shorter supply... BUT are 8 year
old children undesirable??
There are Hundreds of thousands of
children in the US foster system, why are
they not good enough to be
adopted?
yeah they are good to adopt but let's face
it, it's better when they are babies. If
I'm infertile i would definetly want to
adopt a baby over a grown child. I would
want to see seeing the child growing up
since very little. That's part of the fun.
Also it's better because grown up have
more mental traumas more difficult to deal
with than when they are very little and
raised up by
you.
How... horrible. Uhg! Your opinions me
sick...
You don't want the "broken" ones, the ones
who actually need your love and your
caring. They're not good enough.
I bet you wouldn't adopt a shelter dog
either; gotta go for a pure-bred puppy
huh?
|
Birch
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Posted: 03-26-07 20:32pm
nightangel73
wrote:
yeah they are good to adopt
but let's face it, it's better when they
are babies. If I'm infertile i would
definetly want to adopt a baby over a
grown child. I would want to see seeing
the child growing up since very little.
That's part of the fun. Also it's better
because grown up have more mental traumas
more difficult to deal with than when they
are very little and raised up by
you.
Yeee.
On the other hand, though, I would be more
apt to adopt the eight year old with
problems because it just means that much
more to them.
I admire you for at least admitting this.
This is real; this is what many people
think.
I just read the paper today and there are
probably a hundred ads at least for
purepred dogs; and yet hundreds more sit
in pounds without a "bloodline". Same with
babies and kids. Prolife want the kids
born no matter what-- "just adopt it out!"
but on the same token, you have to admit
kids with problems, and kids who aren't
adopted fetal fresh aren't as desirable.
This is why the most important thing to do
is to address the reasons women have
abortions...blah blah blah...I've said it
a hundred times already.
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Cambion
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Posted: 03-26-07 23:15pm
Unfortunately, nightangel's selfish
feelings are not uncommon - a vast
majority of all those who look to adopt
want that perfect little white baby. I
guess once kids are out of that larval
baby stage that makes almost everyone's
hearts melt, they become meaningless and
not worth looking at, let alone adopting.
As far as adoption...a couple of you here
know I'm childfree. However, I have
already decided that if I ever get that
bloody maternal urge people claim we women
get, I'd adopt. Pregnancy disgusts and
scares me, and there would be no benefit
in bringing another person into a world
where so many kids need homes and
families. I would want to adopt an older
child, preferably between the ages of ten
and thirteen. I really don't see this
happening, but if I decide I want my life
to end socially and emotionally, I'll take
care of someone else's mistake...till they
misbehave, in which case they go off to
boarding school or boot camp.
