Reverend Run, Wife Open Up About Losing Baby Posted: 04-01-07 21:06pm
Reverend Run, Wife Open Up About Losing
Baby
SATURDAY MARCH 31, 2007 11:55 PM EDT
Rev. Run and Justine Simmons
Photo by: Maury Phillips / WireImage
On the MTV reality show Run's House,
rapper-turned-minister Joseph "Rev. Run"
Simmons and his wife of 12 years, Justine,
go through perhaps the most difficult
event parents can face: the loss of a
child.
Last year, the 42-year-old former Run-DMC
member and Justine, 43, decided to expand
their family. (They are already parents to
Vanessa, 23; Angela, 19; Jojo, 17; Daniel
"Diggy," 12; and Russell, 10.) But halfway
through Justine's pregnancy, doctors
discovered that their developing baby girl
had an omphalocele, a birth defect that
caused her organs to grow outside her
body.
The devoutly religious couple decided to
go ahead with the pregnancy, and on Sept.
26, Justine gave birth via C-section to a
4-lb., 5-oz. girl whom the couple named
Victoria Anne. The infant died less than
two hours after her birth at a hospital
near the family's Saddle River, N.J.,
home.
The couple – who documented their ordeal
on the third season of Run's House,
premiering April 9 – spoke to PEOPLE
about how their faith, along with a
surprising openness to MTV's cameras, has
helped them heal.
Justine: For me to get pregnant that late
in my life was a miracle. The pregnancy
was not easy. I didn't eat at all. I
didn't even gain a lot of weight. For a
long time the doctors couldn't even tell
[the baby's sex], and we said we know it's
a girl. I bought everything in pink for
the nursery. Everything is pink; it still
is. The nursery is still upstairs.
Rev. Run: We found out that there could be
a problem mid-pregnancy. The doctors told
us that the baby's organs were growing
outside of the body. I'm a preacher; I'm
not going to get an abortion. Our strength
came from, 'God can create miracles. This
baby can be fine.' We stopped looking at
the sonogram and walked in faith.
Justine: Just me, my husband, our bishop
and our pastor knew. We didn't tell
anybody else because we didn’t know how
it would turn out.
Despite the fact that Rev. Run calls the
baby's death "the biggest tragedy anyone
could imagine," he insisted that MTV's
cameras capture everything.
Rev. Run: God, in my mind, gave us
something to go through in front of
America, so we documented it on-camera –
not so much to show you sadness, but to
show you how we, as ministers, would
handle this tragedy. [The kids] found out
on-camera. Diggy was waiting to see,
'How's Mommy?' And the first words we said
were, 'The baby didn't make it.' "
Justine: [After Victoria Anne's death] my
bishop recommended that I have a minute
with the baby in the hospital. I looked at
her and saw how pretty and peaceful she
was. It didn't feel like a goodbye to me.
[Today] I can talk about it, but if I stop
to literally revisit, I start crying so
fast because I can go right there. Women
need to know you only need to mourn
quickly. Don't try to think of [the
baby's] eyes. It doesn't sound nice, but
it will help them in the long run. I
wouldn’t have been able to help my kids
get to school in the morning if my husband
didn't say, 'We have to keep moving.' I
did a lot of journaling – writing to God
telling him to give me strength.
Rev. Run: Diggy might have taken it the
hardest, but I didn't let him. I had him
out on the skateboard the first day.
Basically we teach our kids thankfulness.
We all cry, but not a long period of it.
We don't have pictures [of Victoria Anne].
We don't look back. We don't want the
walls of our house to start crying, and
everything to just crumble around us.
Justine: I've always wanted to adopt, and
now my husband is with me. We're doing the
paperwork now and praying that God gives
us the right baby girl. We celebrate life.
We know Victoria is with God in a
wonderful place looking down on us, and
that's probably why we have a lot of
blessings going on now.
I have to say this guy is a man of god. He
knew the baby was deformed and was not
going to make it but decided to go through
it to the end instead of doing abortion.
wow
|
Jules
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Posted: 04-02-07 01:07am
I think the parents made a very very
difficult choice there - I'm not sure what
I would have done. They obviously had
their faith to help them make that
decision and fair play to them. I would
have to make my choice based solely on how
greatly my child would suffer.
|
Birch
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Posted: 04-02-07 10:13am
I support her choice to continue her
pregnancy, although I would not expect all
to do as she's done.
One other thing; if you don't go through
the grieving process properly, it could
come back as ptsd or something later on.
It seems like they may be going through
denial a little bit, these poor parents.
|
jenn_smithson
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 808 Location: Texas
Re: Reverend Run, Wife Open Up About Losing Baby Posted: 04-02-07 14:35pm
nightangel73
wrote:
Rev. Run: We found out that there could be
a problem mid-pregnancy. The doctors told
us that the baby's organs were growing
outside of the body. I'm a
preacher; I'm not going to get an
abortion. Our strength came from, 'God can
create miracles. This baby can be fine.'
We stopped looking at the sonogram and
walked in faith.
Rev. Run: God, in my mind, gave us
something to go through in front of
America, so we documented it on-camera –
not so much to show you sadness, but to
show you how we, as ministers, would
handle this tragedy. [The kids] found out
on-camera. Diggy was waiting to see, 'How's
Mommy?' And the first
words we said were, 'The baby didn't make
it.' "
Justine: ...Women need to know you only need to
mourn quickly. Don't try to think
of [the baby's] eyes. It doesn't sound
nice, but it will help them in the long
run. I wouldn’t have been able to help
my kids get to school in the morning if my
husband didn't say, 'We have to keep
moving.' I did a lot of journaling
– writing to God telling him to give me
strength.
Rev. Run: Diggy might have taken it the
hardest, but I didn't let him. I had him
out on the skateboard the first day.
Basically we teach our kids thankfulness.
We all
cry, but not a long period of it. We don't
have pictures [of Victoria Anne]. We don't
look back. We don't want the walls of our
house to start crying, and everything to
just crumble around us.
-----------------------------
I have to say this guy is a man of god.
He
knew the baby was deformed and was not
going to make it but decided to go through
it to the end instead of doing abortion.
wow
Is anyone else disturbed by these people
or at least by this description of what
happened?
I don't think their experience should now
be the one the women are expected to model
and it almost sounds, from your comments,
as though you want to see women with
doomed pregnancies keep them. This advice
is negligent as many women would die if
they followed these people's footsteps.
She is .V.E.R.Y lucky that
she went through the pregnancy without
major complications or infection. The
threat to her was very real and in my
opinion, she did a medically stupid thing
to herself based on her husbands beliefs.
And the fact that they are reinforcing
these beliefs to the children they have at
home is very, very sad. They made it seem
as though the deformed fetus, its health,
and its birth are more important than the
mother's health and life. The first words
to their young son were not that mommy is
okay and will be alright but that the baby
didn't make it even though he specifically
asked about his mother.
It's like that old poster drawn by a young
girl pre-Roe that said, "my mommy had an
abortion. I don't miss the baby but I do
miss my mommy."
I support her choice and decision (if she
did make the choice herself) because I am
prochoice but I would highly, highly
discourage it for other women. And, I
would recommend that these people get some
therapy, for them and their whole family.
|
Birch
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Posted: 04-02-07 19:37pm
I agree with you, jenn. This is not the
right message. and they are not handling
this situation well with themselves or
their children. I would hope that the
good reverend and his wife would not
condemn those who decide an abortion is in
everyone's best interests.
I think it's pretty selfish, too. The
baby has the ability to feel pain at
birth, but an eariler abortion might have
spared the child this pain.
I also find it ironic that "women need to
mourn quickly" and "move on". If this had
been an aborted fetus it would be the end
of the world.
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nightangel73
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Posted: 04-02-07 20:44pm
You know i think if in this case I would
have had the child just like this woman
did. Provided it's not life threathing to
me. Think about it, the baby was going to
die anyways, so going to kill it I think
it would have made the tragedy even more
traumatic for those parents. Remember this
is wanted child. So they did right, just
let god take it away when it's time.
I wonder what would have been her
reaction if the pregnancy was life
threathing to her...
|
Birch
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Posted: 04-02-07 20:51pm
nightangel73
wrote:
You know i think if in this
case I would have had the child just like
this woman did. Provided it's not life
threathing to me. Think about it, the baby
was going to die anyways, so going to kill
it I think it would have made the tragedy
even more traumatic for those parents.
What about the pain factor? Didn't the
baby feel pain? What would have been
better; to worry about the baby's pain, or
the parent's trauma? A truly selfless act
would have been an abortion. Why bring
this child into the world only to feel
pain and then death?
|
nightangel73
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Posted: 04-02-07 22:28pm
Birch
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
You know i think if in this
case I would have had the child just like
this woman did. Provided it's not life
threathing to me. Think about it, the baby
was going to die anyways, so going to kill
it I think it would have made the tragedy
even more traumatic for those parents.
What about the pain factor? Didn't the
baby feel pain? What would have been
better; to worry about the baby's pain, or
the parent's trauma? A truly selfless act
would have been an abortion. Why bring
this child into the world only to feel
pain and then
death?
Birch because that is up to god when you
are going to die. They don't want the
child to feel pain and death. But if this
is what god has planned then so be it.
Plus if you decide to do abortion the baby
is going the pain of the abortion and
death. And it will be all your fault. I
much rather prefer to know the baby lived
until god decided to take it away.
|
Tylanas
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Posted: 04-02-07 22:51pm
nightangel73
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
You know i think if in this
case I would have had the child just like
this woman did. Provided it's not life
threathing to me. Think about it, the baby
was going to die anyways, so going to kill
it I think it would have made the tragedy
even more traumatic for those parents.
What about the pain factor? Didn't the
baby feel pain? What would have been
better; to worry about the baby's pain, or
the parent's trauma? A truly selfless act
would have been an abortion. Why bring
this child into the world only to feel
pain and then
death?
Birch because that is up to god when you
are going to die. They don't want the
child to feel pain and death. But if this
is what god has planned then so be it.
Plus if you decide to do abortion the baby
is going the pain of the abortion and
death. And it will be all your fault. I
much rather prefer to know the baby lived
until god decided to take it
away.
What about non-christians who don't give a
dink about the christian god?
The pain of abortion and death... the
abortion causes death. Death,
surprisingly, is a state of being, not a
sensation. The baby that was born took -
how long did they say? - two or three
hours to die! An abortion takes 15
minutes. Merciful would have been an
abortion.
However... as long as the mother was not
in danger, I honestly have no problem with
her desicion. I found it a little sweet;
and their desicion to follow their beliefs
is commendable; however, I do think they
didn't grieve properly.
Now I can say that with conviction,
because my family is notorious for being
very stoic during times of strife. But
that doesn't mean we're not grieving; we
just do it in private. We go out for a
walk from the hospital, house or funeral
home, cry, loose it, bawl, yell, whatever,
and then go back inside to help others.
This may happen more than once. We know
that pain is going to happen; but we don't
try to hide from it like the rev and his
wife did (although at least she kept a
journal). In the early days, if we feel
like crying, we do. I broke down and cried
on my grandpa's comatose arm this december
when he was dying. But I did it alone.
|
Jules
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Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3752 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
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Posted: 04-03-07 00:57am
Eiri
wrote:
I broke down and cried on
my grandpa's comatose arm this december
when he was dying. But I did it
alone.
I'm sorry .Eiri
|
Jules
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Posted: 04-03-07 01:08am
I agree with .Jenn that when I read the
article I was rather disturbed by how the
parents seem to be handling the loss of
their child. My first thought was that I
would want pictures of my baby in the
house so they would be part of the family
even though they were not there
physically. But then I thought, perhaps I
shouldn't judge how someone deals with
grief, everyone handles it in their own
way I suppose...something still doesn't
seem right though.
I also understand what nightangel is
saying about preferring to let the baby
die naturally rather than have an
abortion. That choice takes away the
feeling of guilt because it is not your
hand (or consent) that kills your baby but
the hand of God (or nature).
It would matter to me how the baby was
aborted too. I don't think I could have
an abortion where the baby is torn apart
because (or am I wrong?) the baby is still
alive and unaesthetised when they do that.
That would haunt me. I would rather the
baby be born and dosed up on morphine to
die naturally than be torn apart inside
me. If I could be guaranteed that my baby
would be killed painlessly inside me then
I would consider that option.
|
Tylanas
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Posted: 04-03-07 02:33am
PurestGreen
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
I broke down and cried on
my grandpa's comatose arm this december
when he was dying. But I did it
alone.
I'm sorry .Eiri
Eh, it's alright. Like I said, I did my
grieving. I mean, we all cried alone
perhaps, but it was out of personal
choice. There was always a shoulder if we
needed one; and my mom cried on my dad's
shoulder many times - this grandpa was her
daddy. We lost the other grandpa about 5-6
years ago, but his death was completely
different. It was slow, and inevitable.
This time, it was sudden and harsh. We
didn't have a chance to slowly prepare and
say goodbye. Trust me, there were some
real Lifetime Movie moments that happened,
the kind that gets the whole theater
crying. Actual one-liners from my grandpa
before they took him off to surgery... I'm
going to stop thinking about that now,
because it brings up all the sad memories
^^u
Back on topic... I do understand the
desire to at least see the child, if you
knew that its life could end quickly and
painlessly, but they didn't do that. They
waited until natural labor and then let it
die. Did it have medicine? Who knows.
I think that's what I would have wanted to
do; wait until natural labor or maybe
induce it the moment we knew of the
deformity, and then make the baby
comfortable as it died.
|
Jules
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Posted: 04-03-07 03:40am
Eiri
wrote:
I think that's what I would have wanted to
do; wait until natural labor or maybe
induce it the moment we knew of the
deformity, and then make the baby
comfortable as it
died.
I know of a girl, only 14 bless her, who
had to have an abortion at 26 weeks
because her baby had a condition that was
'incompatible with life'. Her baby was
euthenised and then delivered. It broke
her heart but, as many people keep telling
her, I don't see how she could have made
any other decision. Truth is, she perhaps
hung on to the pregnancy a little longer
than she had to because she felt the baby
was safe as long as it was inside her.
I have nothing but respect for those women
who make the painful choice to abort for
reasons of maternal/foetal health. I
still don't know what I would do but I
think such situations clearly show that
abortion is not a black and white issue.
As humans we are merciful enough to put
our beloved pets out of their pain and
misery when we believe they should not
have to suffer any more - why do we allow
our own kind to suffer so?
|
Tylanas
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Posted: 04-03-07 10:24am
Quite right It's a difficult
desicion, but ultimately, the most humane
one. People tend to forget that humans
should be humane to each other, not just
animals.
|
Birch
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Posted: 04-03-07 15:38pm
nightangel73
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
You know i think if in this
case I would have had the child just like
this woman did. Provided it's not life
threathing to me. Think about it, the baby
was going to die anyways, so going to kill
it I think it would have made the tragedy
even more traumatic for those parents.
What about the pain factor? Didn't the
baby feel pain? What would have been
better; to worry about the baby's pain, or
the parent's trauma? A truly selfless act
would have been an abortion. Why bring
this child into the world only to feel
pain and then
death?
Birch because that is up to god when you
are going to die. They don't want the
child to feel pain and death. But if this
is what god has planned then so be it.
Plus if you decide to do abortion the baby
is going the pain of the abortion and
death. And it will be all your fault. I
much rather prefer to know the baby lived
until god decided to take it
away.
Maybe god's plan was to put them in a
situation where an abortion would be best,
and that way they might learn something or
teach something to the public about
abortion?
And they screwed it all up.
How do you know the way of god? I thought
he worked in mysterious ways.
|
nightangel73
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Posted: 04-03-07 16:49pm
Birch
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
You know i think if in this
case I would have had the child just like
this woman did. Provided it's not life
threathing to me. Think about it, the baby
was going to die anyways, so going to kill
it I think it would have made the tragedy
even more traumatic for those parents.
What about the pain factor? Didn't the
baby feel pain? What would have been
better; to worry about the baby's pain, or
the parent's trauma? A truly selfless act
would have been an abortion. Why bring
this child into the world only to feel
pain and then
death?
Birch because that is up to god when you
are going to die. They don't want the
child to feel pain and death. But if this
is what god has planned then so be it.
Plus if you decide to do abortion the baby
is going the pain of the abortion and
death. And it will be all your fault. I
much rather prefer to know the baby lived
until god decided to take it
away.
Maybe god's plan was to put them in a
situation where an abortion would be best,
and that way they might learn something or
teach something to the public about
abortion?
And they screwed it all up.
How do you know the way of god? I thought
he worked in mysterious
ways.
Birch because jesus said when i'm gone
love one another. He didn't said kill one
another.
|
nightangel73
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Posted: 04-03-07 16:52pm
PurestGreen
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
I think that's what I would have wanted to
do; wait until natural labor or maybe
induce it the moment we knew of the
deformity, and then make the baby
comfortable as it
died.
I know of a girl, only 14 bless her, who
had to have an abortion at 26 weeks
because her baby had a condition that was
'incompatible with life'. Her baby was
euthenised and then delivered. It broke
her heart but, as many people keep telling
her, I don't see how she could have made
any other decision. Truth is, she perhaps
hung on to the pregnancy a little longer
than she had to because she felt the baby
was safe as long as it was inside her.
I have nothing but respect for those women
who make the painful choice to abort for
reasons of maternal/foetal health. I
still don't know what I would do but I
think such situations clearly show that
abortion is not a black and white issue.
As humans we are merciful enough to put
our beloved pets out of their pain and
misery when we believe they should not
have to suffer any more - why do we allow
our own kind to suffer
so?
If i were in the situation of the girl, I
would have done the same as the preacher
wife.
|
vanessalouanne
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Posted: 04-03-07 17:02pm
If your pro choice then i think you should
all support her decision to choose. I
have a lot of respect for the her and her
family in that they decided to wait it out
and not give up hope.
The only thing i would of done differently
is tell my family of what was happening
with the pregnancy
|
Birch
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Posted: 04-03-07 22:02pm
nightangel73
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
You know i think if in this
case I would have had the child just like
this woman did. Provided it's not life
threathing to me. Think about it, the baby
was going to die anyways, so going to kill
it I think it would have made the tragedy
even more traumatic for those parents.
What about the pain factor? Didn't the
baby feel pain? What would have been
better; to worry about the baby's pain, or
the parent's trauma? A truly selfless act
would have been an abortion. Why bring
this child into the world only to feel
pain and then
death?
Birch because that is up to god when you
are going to die. They don't want the
child to feel pain and death. But if this
is what god has planned then so be it.
Plus if you decide to do abortion the baby
is going the pain of the abortion and
death. And it will be all your fault. I
much rather prefer to know the baby lived
until god decided to take it
away.
Maybe god's plan was to put them in a
situation where an abortion would be best,
and that way they might learn something or
teach something to the public about
abortion?
And they screwed it all up.
How do you know the way of god? I thought
he worked in mysterious
ways.
Birch because jesus said when i'm gone
love one another. He didn't said kill one
another.
I think it's all a cop out. It's much
easier to say, "it's in god's hands" than
to actually make the tough decision for
yourself.
Tough love is hard, but it's the best
decision sometimes.
My god, we're arguing about a born baby
feeling pain and suffering versus being
aborted in the womb with less pain and
suffering. These people didn't do
anything to ease the pain of the child
because they are afraid of this god they
worship retaliating against them.
It's all just a crutch, just a contention
plan.
vanessalouanne
wrote:
If your pro choice then i
think you should all support her decision
to choose. I have a lot of respect for the
her and her family in that they decided to
wait it out and not give up hope.
The only thing i would of done differently
is tell my family of what was happening
with the
pregnancy
If you look carefully, I think you will
see at least two prochoice people say they
support the woman's choice.
I think they were in denial, and refused
to do anything about it because, like
purestgreen actually said, "That choice
takes away the feeling of guilt because it
is not your hand (or consent) that kills
your baby but the hand of God (or
nature)." They didn't want to be
proactive because they were selfish and
afraid. The End.
|
Moo
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Posted: 04-04-07 07:05am
It was her choice to continue the
pregnancy, it does seem that her husband
should maybe have been a little more
concerned about his wife's health.
Personally I would listen to the doctors
and would abort for foetal abnormality, I
have no doubt it would be difficult but no
more so than carrying a
pregnancy/delivering a child that will
probably spend it's short life in pain.
Nightangel - its very easy to say you'd
continue such a pregnancy but I know women
who have been as strong minded as you
(pro-life) yet faced with a certain
situation have aborted for reasons similar
to this.
It's a difficult
desicion, but ultimately, the most humane
one. People tend to forget that humans
should be humane to each other, not just
animals.
