Last edited by Tylanas on 04-09-07 14:56pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 04-09-07 14:53pm
nightangel73
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
Kypros
wrote:
As less humane as it may be,
if I knew the baby I was carrying had no
chance of survival, I would prefer to give
birth than abort (given that my health was
not in danger, of course) and let the baby
die naturally. I would avoid abortion as
best I could because it would always be
the last solution for me.
Kypros.
That's your choice, just as it is the
choice of pet owners to not euthanise
their pets and let them slowly and
painfully
die.
eiri pain and death are sure natural
things in life. You can't euthanize your
relatives when they are just diagnosed
with a terminal cancer so that they don't
suffer the cancer. People just go through
the cancer with all pain involved until
the end, then they die. That's just how it
is.
It all depends. If I was in a ton of pain
and there was no cure, I would perhaps
want to be euthanized. I wish it was legal
for a conseting adult in a terminal
situation to ask to be euthanised, I
really do. I watched a great grandmother
starve herself to death because she didn't
want to live, but couldn't be euthanised.
I strongly believe they should have
euthanized .terry .schivo after removing
the tube. I'd certainly euthanize a pet
that is going to die; what is the point of
that kind of suffering?
When one is not christian, suddenly, the
point of life is no longer to suffer.
Suffering in fact, is viewed as bad, which
is what it actually is. Buddhists focus on
eliminating suffering, in fact. We don't
glorify suffering.
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
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Posted: 04-09-07 14:58pm
jenn_smithson
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
You don't understand the
concepts here.
You have the right to do what you want.
However, this means you have the right to
make stupid
choices.
.t.h.a.n.k
.y.o.u!!
Lol, you're welcome.
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Tylanas
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Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
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Posted: 04-09-07 15:02pm
Birch
wrote:
Sunflower_pie81
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
Kypros
wrote:
As less humane as it may be,
if I knew the baby I was carrying had no
chance of survival, I would prefer to give
birth than abort (given that my health was
not in danger, of course) and let the baby
die naturally. I would avoid abortion as
best I could because it would always be
the last solution for me.
Kypros.
That's your choice, just as it is the
choice of pet owners to not euthanise
their pets and let them slowly and
painfully
die.
why would you make a comment like this,
.Eiri? I don't think that you can compare
humans to cats and dogs. Aborting a
wanted child is not an easy decision...but
eh, i know you see things very
differently.
Not that I need to speak for .Eiri, but
perhaps she doesn't subscribe to the
egotistical, self centered belief that
humans are superior to all other forms of
life and that human suffering is "worse"
than any other creature suffering.
I hate that
attitude.
You're quite right there, birch. I don't
know if humans are total equals with
animals, but I do know that we are
animals. We are mammals; and if it okay to
end a dog's suffering out of mercy, then
why is it bad to end the life of someone
who has gone through every treatment,
tried every homeopathic solution, even
prayed to the deaf christian god for
healing? I don't support giving up the
moment you are diagnosed with terminal
cancer; I applaud those who try in every
way to heal and become better. But I also
feel that once someone gives up, they
should have the right to die with dignity.
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nightangel73
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 2765 Location: ,
Thanks: 19
Thanked:18
online
Posted: 04-09-07 17:22pm
Eiri
wrote:
When one is not christian, suddenly, the
point of life is no longer to suffer.
Suffering in fact, is viewed as bad, which
is what it actually is. Buddhists focus on
eliminating suffering, in fact. We don't
glorify
suffering.
you are totally wrong as usual. We too
focus on not suffering but you just can't
eliminate suffering. I guess my mom should
kill herself since that will be the only
way to eliminate the suffering of loosing
my brother. What would buddhist suggest on
that. Taking pills to forget the suffering
until she dies? She has actually recovered
from much of the suffering thanks to much
prayer. Without praying she wouldn't make
it.
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nightangel73
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Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 2765 Location: ,
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online
Posted: 04-09-07 17:28pm
Birch
wrote:
Not that I need to speak for .Eiri, but
perhaps she doesn't subscribe to the
egotistical, self centered belief that
humans are superior to all other forms of
life and that human suffering is "worse"
than any other creature suffering.
I hate that
attitude.
oh we are far superior than animals as we
are made by image of god our Lord. But
just because we think we are superior in
that sense doesn't mean we believe in
animal cruelty birch. Animal cruelty is
totally wrong and horrible.
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Sunflower_pie81
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 5041 Location: to hell with this crap
Posted: 04-09-07 17:39pm
Eiri
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
Sunflower_pie81
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
Kypros
wrote:
As less humane as it may be,
if I knew the baby I was carrying had no
chance of survival, I would prefer to give
birth than abort (given that my health was
not in danger, of course) and let the baby
die naturally. I would avoid abortion as
best I could because it would always be
the last solution for me.
Kypros.
That's your choice, just as it is the
choice of pet owners to not euthanise
their pets and let them slowly and
painfully
die.
why would you make a comment like this,
.Eiri? I don't think that you can compare
humans to cats and dogs. Aborting a
wanted child is not an easy decision...but
eh, i know you see things very
differently.
Not that I need to speak for .Eiri, but
perhaps she doesn't subscribe to the
egotistical, self centered belief that
humans are superior to all other forms of
life and that human suffering is "worse"
than any other creature suffering.
I hate that
attitude.
You're quite right there, birch. I don't
know if humans are total equals with
animals, but I do know that we are
animals. We are mammals; and if it okay to
end a dog's suffering out of mercy, then
why is it bad to end the life of someone
who has gone through every treatment,
tried every homeopathic solution, even
prayed to the deaf christian god for
healing? I don't support giving up the
moment you are diagnosed with terminal
cancer; I applaud those who try in every
way to heal and become better. But I also
feel that once someone gives up, they
should have the right to die with
dignity.
I know that i am more than an equal than
other mammals out there. but you know you
can't win in this world...My brother lives
in pain everyday, so we should kill him?
His body can't be fixed...should we end
his life? He doesn't want to die, should
we make him...should we just end his
suffering? Anamals i am sure dont' want
to die, but we make the decision for
them...is it right? I don't know...but I
don't know. I have the attutude that you
guys hate apparently, but being able to
end a human life just seems....well
barbarick...(sp)
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nightangel73
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 2765 Location: ,
Thanks: 19
Thanked:18
online
Posted: 04-09-07 17:43pm
Eiri
wrote:
If I was in a ton of pain and there was no
cure, I would perhaps want to be
euthanized. I wish it was legal for a
conseting adult in a terminal situation to
ask to be euthanised, I really do. I
watched a great grandmother starve herself
to death because she didn't want to live,
but couldn't be euthanised. I strongly
believe they should have euthanized .terry
.schivo after removing the tube. I'd
certainly euthanize a pet that is going to
die; what is the point of that kind of
suffering?
what you can do now eiri is go online and
write a living will where you state that
if you are so bad that you need to be
intubated, you refuse to it. You will need
a witness to sign the papers (the witness
will have copy of document and bring it to
the hospital if you are like that). That's
what my brother did and they enforced it.
At least that will save you from being
intubated.
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Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Posted: 04-09-07 20:09pm
nightangel73
wrote:
oh we are far superior than animals as we
are made by image of god our Lord. But
just because we think we are superior in
that sense doesn't mean we believe in
animal cruelty birch. Animal cruelty is
totally wrong and
horrible.
Sunflowerpie81
wrote:
I know that i am more than
an equal than other mammals out there. but
you know you can't win in this world...My
brother lives in pain everyday, so we
should kill him? His body can't be
fixed...should we end his life? He doesn't
want to die, should we make him...should
we just end his suffering? Anamals i am
sure dont' want to die, but we make the
decision for them...is it right? I don't
know...but I don't know. I have the
attutude that you guys hate apparently,
but being able to end a human life just
seems....well
barbarick...(sp)
Please provide proof (that we are far
superior to animals). I'd really like to
read it. New perspectives are refreshing.
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 04-10-07 01:13am
nightangel73
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
When one is not christian, suddenly, the
point of life is no longer to suffer.
Suffering in fact, is viewed as bad, which
is what it actually is. Buddhists focus on
eliminating suffering, in fact. We don't
glorify
suffering.
you are totally wrong as usual. We too
focus on not suffering but you just can't
eliminate suffering. I guess my mom should
kill herself since that will be the only
way to eliminate the suffering of loosing
my brother. What would buddhist suggest on
that. Taking pills to forget the suffering
until she dies? She has actually recovered
from much of the suffering thanks to much
prayer. Without praying she wouldn't make
it.
Uh, your mother obviously doesn't
understand the concept of moving on. Also,
missing someone is not a form of terminal
cancer. I bet a whole lot of cancer
patients would beat you up for implying
that. Besides, you blame your brother's
death on the fact that he was gay.
No, your mother needs to learn to move on
and learn how to deal with the pain of
separation. Not dealing with it means that
she is actually not mentally healthy. Is
she going to feel sad every now and then?
yes. Should she suffer? No. And pills are
never the answer.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
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Posted: 04-10-07 01:22am
Sunflower_pie81
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
Sunflower_pie81
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
Kypros
wrote:
As less humane as it may be,
if I knew the baby I was carrying had no
chance of survival, I would prefer to give
birth than abort (given that my health was
not in danger, of course) and let the baby
die naturally. I would avoid abortion as
best I could because it would always be
the last solution for me.
Kypros.
That's your choice, just as it is the
choice of pet owners to not euthanise
their pets and let them slowly and
painfully
die.
why would you make a comment like this,
.Eiri? I don't think that you can compare
humans to cats and dogs. Aborting a
wanted child is not an easy decision...but
eh, i know you see things very
differently.
Not that I need to speak for .Eiri, but
perhaps she doesn't subscribe to the
egotistical, self centered belief that
humans are superior to all other forms of
life and that human suffering is "worse"
than any other creature suffering.
I hate that
attitude.
You're quite right there, birch. I don't
know if humans are total equals with
animals, but I do know that we are
animals. We are mammals; and if it okay to
end a dog's suffering out of mercy, then
why is it bad to end the life of someone
who has gone through every treatment,
tried every homeopathic solution, even
prayed to the deaf christian god for
healing? I don't support giving up the
moment you are diagnosed with terminal
cancer; I applaud those who try in every
way to heal and become better. But I also
feel that once someone gives up, they
should have the right to die with
dignity.
I know that i am more than an equal than
other mammals out there. but you know you
can't win in this world...My brother lives
in pain everyday, so we should kill him?
His body can't be fixed...should we end
his life? He doesn't want to die, should
we make him...should we just end his
suffering? Anamals i am sure dont' want
to die, but we make the decision for
them...is it right? I don't know...but I
don't know. I have the attutude that you
guys hate apparently, but being able to
end a human life just seems....well
barbarick...(sp)
You clearly missed the part where I said
it was the suffering person's choice. You
have no right to do anything to his body,
just as he would never have the right to
tell you to give birth if you wanted to
abort.
We hate what, exactly? We don't hate life,
far from it. And once more, unless the
person is a serious comatose patient or is
in some other way unable to make the
choice themselves, they should have the
right to make the desicion.
My grandfather developed an aortic
aneuryism over winter break. They took him
into surgery, but unfortunately
afterwards, his kidneys would not turn
back on. They couldn't even wake him up
from the anesthesia. He was going to die
in a week, or, they could pull the plug
and let him go sooner. As my grandmother
understood the concept of lessening
suffering and how pointless it would be to
keep his body alive on machines, and how
he never would have wanted that, she had
them turn off the medicines. He died an
hour later.
SO if any of you try and tell me that
lessening suffering is wrong, I will send
back at you tale after tale of how it is a
humane thing to do.
DOn't give up when there is hope. But when
there is none, like in my grandfather's
case, then be a strong person and make the
kind choice, and let go.
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 04-10-07 01:31am
nightangel73
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
If I was in a ton of pain and there was no
cure, I would perhaps want to be
euthanized. I wish it was legal for a
conseting adult in a terminal situation to
ask to be euthanised, I really do. I
watched a great grandmother starve herself
to death because she didn't want to live,
but couldn't be euthanised. I strongly
believe they should have euthanized .terry
.schivo after removing the tube. I'd
certainly euthanize a pet that is going to
die; what is the point of that kind of
suffering?
what you can do now eiri is go online and
write a living will where you state that
if you are so bad that you need to be
intubated, you refuse to it. You will need
a witness to sign the papers (the witness
will have copy of document and bring it to
the hospital if you are like that). That's
what my brother did and they enforced it.
At least that will save you from being
intubated.
Yes, I know. I just recieved my papers
today from the organ donation organization
in new york.
It's not that I don't want to be comatose.
I'd be fine with it for about 6 months,
but if it got past that, it's almost
hopeless.
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nightangel73
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 2765 Location: ,
Thanks: 19
Thanked:18
online
Posted: 04-10-07 06:01am
Eiri
wrote:
Uh, your mother obviously doesn't
understand the concept of moving on. Also,
missing someone is not a form of terminal
cancer. I bet a whole lot of cancer
patients would beat you up for implying
that. Besides, you blame your brother's
death on the fact that he was gay.
No, your mother needs to learn to move on
and learn how to deal with the pain of
separation. Not dealing with it means that
she is actually not mentally healthy. Is
she going to feel sad every now and then?
yes. Should she suffer? No. And pills are
never the
answer.
seeing your child dies is the worst
tragedy a human can suffer in life. It is
worse than cancer. My mom would rather
take a cancer or being on a wheelchair
anyday over seeing my brother die. But you
are not a parent yet so you can't
understand this. And yes my brother's
death was due to his lifestyle of drug
abuse and homosexualism.
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Moo
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 1066 Location: London
Thanks: 21
Thanked:111
Posted: 04-10-07 07:10am
Sunflower_pie81
wrote:
Aborting a wanted child is
not an easy decision...but eh, i know you
see things very
differently.
HAving any abortion isn't an easy decision
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Sunflower_pie81
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 5041 Location: to hell with this crap
Posted: 04-10-07 10:43am
Moo
wrote:
Sunflower_pie81
wrote:
Aborting a wanted child is
not an easy decision...but eh, i know you
see things very
differently.
HAving any abortion isn't an easy
decision
agree'd!!
I had one, it was the hardest decision of
my life!
I am not a debator!!! So I really can't
comment on posts like this because my
feelings get the better of me. I take
back what I said...I don't know that my
brother wants to live because he can't
tell us if he want's to or not. so making
the decision for him would be inhumane.
(in my eyes anyway.)
Now my son on the other hand couldn't have
made the decision. He was born early and
with a heart condition. They advised me
that if he could make it to 40 weeks
gestational period (born at 27 weeks) they
would be able to do surgery on him. well
i wanted him to live....and i wanted my
baby more than anything, but you know they
let him die anyway. they pulled the plug
on him and let him die. In this case, I
don't know what was right for him. We
don't know if he would have made it or
not. But i wish he was given the
chance....
I can't show you proof that I am any
better than shamu I will bow out now.
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
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Posted: 04-10-07 11:59am
nightangel73
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
Uh, your mother obviously doesn't
understand the concept of moving on. Also,
missing someone is not a form of terminal
cancer. I bet a whole lot of cancer
patients would beat you up for implying
that. Besides, you blame your brother's
death on the fact that he was gay.
No, your mother needs to learn to move on
and learn how to deal with the pain of
separation. Not dealing with it means that
she is actually not mentally healthy. Is
she going to feel sad every now and then?
yes. Should she suffer? No. And pills are
never the
answer.
seeing your child dies is the worst
tragedy a human can suffer in life. It is
worse than cancer. My mom would rather
take a cancer or being on a wheelchair
anyday over seeing my brother die. But you
are not a parent yet so you can't
understand this. And yes my brother's
death was due to his lifestyle of drug
abuse and
homosexualism.
That's how you feel about it; but I think
a sick person might feel differently than
you. Many people would sacrifice
themselves for others. But being the
survivor means you must learn to deal with
it. That doesn't mean it's not going to
hurt, but the healthiest thing to do is to
learn to move on, and so thus to lessen
and end your suffering. You turn the pain
around, and remember the good things. You
don't dwell on the death, and you
certainly don't blame the person's
life-style. That is only going to make you
hate everyone who has that kind of
life-style; you will subconsciously blame
them for your brother's death.
You're not a parent so you can't
understand it either, so don't even try to
use that excuse.
And once again, you prove your truly evil
nature, your close-mindedness and your
stupidity. Your brother needed your love
and understadning, not your hate and
discrimination; that's really why he died.
I don't use the word evil often because
people automaticaly associate it with the
bible, but when it comes to you, it's the
only word that works.
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nightangel73
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 2765 Location: ,
Thanks: 19
Thanked:18
online
Posted: 04-10-07 18:24pm
Eiri
wrote:
And once again, you prove your truly evil
nature, your close-mindedness and your
stupidity. Your brother needed your love
and understadning, not your hate and
discrimination; that's really why he died.
I don't use the word evil often because
people automaticaly associate it with the
bible, but when it comes to you, it's the
only word that
works.
Eiri let me tell you this, you don't know
caca about my relationship with my brother
so don't assume anything. Learn that the
online world is the online world and
people don't necessarely project their
true selves here nor they are going to say
here everything about their lives. Are you
smoking drugs? You must be probably
putting a joke on me with this posts
hehehe.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 04-10-07 21:06pm
nightangel73
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
And once again, you prove your truly evil
nature, your close-mindedness and your
stupidity. Your brother needed your love
and understadning, not your hate and
discrimination; that's really why he died.
I don't use the word evil often because
people automaticaly associate it with the
bible, but when it comes to you, it's the
only word that
works.
Eiri let me tell you this, you don't know
caca about my relationship with my brother
so don't assume anything. Learn that the
online world is the online world and
people don't necessarely project their
true selves here nor they are going to say
here everything about their lives. Are you
smoking drugs? You must be probably
putting a joke on me with this posts
hehehe.
Then how about you stop assuming things
about me and my expereinces, eh? If you
could do that for one moment; if you could
step into someone else's shoes and see
that their way of life is not bad,
then we wouldn't be having this debate.
I am dead serious. From everything you
have said, even in "frank moments" when
you attempted to show us how you are in
real life, you have shown yourself to be
close-minded, discriminatory, sexist, and
homophobic. I'm sorry that you need to
face these truths. You are not loving
towards your neighboor; if they have
different beliefs from you, then you think
they are lesser than you, that they have
no culture, and that they are blind to the
truth.
I do represent who I am in
real life online. I am polite until
insulted, I am kind to everyone; I do not
judge anything except close-minded
stupidity, I educate the ignorant with
caring, unless they show that they do not
want to learn. You have shown you do not
want to learn. I do not tolerate that,
especially when you say you have the right
to tell others how to live.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Posted: 04-10-07 21:31pm
Sunflower_pie81
wrote:
Moo
wrote:
Sunflower_pie81
wrote:
Aborting a wanted child is
not an easy decision...but eh, i know you
see things very
differently.
HAving any abortion isn't an easy
decision
agree'd!!
I had one, it was the hardest decision of
my life!
I am not a debator!!! So I really can't
comment on posts like this because my
feelings get the better of me. I take
back what I said...I don't know that my
brother wants to live because he can't
tell us if he want's to or not. so making
the decision for him would be inhumane.
(in my eyes anyway.)
Now my son on the other hand couldn't have
made the decision. He was born early and
with a heart condition. They advised me
that if he could make it to 40 weeks
gestational period (born at 27 weeks) they
would be able to do surgery on him. well
i wanted him to live....and i wanted my
baby more than anything, but you know they
let him die anyway. they pulled the plug
on him and let him die. In this case, I
don't know what was right for him. We
don't know if he would have made it or
not. But i wish he was given the
chance....
I can't show you proof that I am any
better than shamu I will bow out
now.
I'm sorry about your son. That is a really
tough situation.
If you don't know how you are "better"
than any animal, I would hope you would be
introspective and perhaps come to a
different understanding.
|
nightangel73
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 2765 Location: ,
Thanks: 19
Thanked:18
online
Posted: 04-11-07 05:51am
Eiri
wrote:
nightangel73
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
And once again, you prove your truly evil
nature, your close-mindedness and your
stupidity. Your brother needed your love
and understadning, not your hate and
discrimination; that's really why he died.
I don't use the word evil often because
people automaticaly associate it with the
bible, but when it comes to you, it's the
only word that
works.
Eiri let me tell you this, you don't know
caca about my relationship with my brother
so don't assume anything. Learn that the
online world is the online world and
people don't necessarely project their
true selves here nor they are going to say
here everything about their lives. Are you
smoking drugs? You must be probably
putting a joke on me with this posts
hehehe.
Then how about you stop assuming things
about me and my expereinces, eh? If you
could do that for one moment; if you could
step into someone else's shoes and see
that their way of life is not bad,
then we wouldn't be having this debate.
I am dead serious. From everything you
have said, even in "frank moments" when
you attempted to show us how you are in
real life, you have shown yourself to be
close-minded, discriminatory, sexist, and
homophobic. I'm sorry that you need to
face these truths. You are not loving
towards your neighboor; if they have
different beliefs from you, then you think
they are lesser than you, that they have
no culture, and that they are blind to the
truth.
I do represent who I am in
real life online. I am polite until
insulted, I am kind to everyone; I do not
judge anything except close-minded
stupidity, I educate the ignorant with
caring, unless they show that they do not
want to learn. You have shown you do not
want to learn. I do not tolerate that,
especially when you say you have the right
to tell others how to
live.
cool eiri just confirming you are totally
crazy hehehe
That is a really
tough situation.
